PeterNorth

1 hour ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

These guys really know how to cr&p on their fans.  Rolling into the venue with merch trucks stating We’re F’N Back right next to the AFD 5 logo with Steven and Izzy.  It’s like Axl and Team Brazil know exactly what would really boost excitement and make them a real band again (not the current corporate version, which is the most glorified GNR cover band ever), but yet they are content to remain obstinate and enjoy pissing people off on purpose.

21 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Yeah I agree that collapse usually leads to good things. Your U2 example was a good point. After the PopMart tour, they made the All That You Can’t Leave Behind record in 2000, which had a bunch of hits and re-established them as a relevant act going into the new millennium. Same thing happened TWICE now with the chili peppers. The One Hot Minute album flopped in the mid 90s, so they got John Frusciante back, and their most recent record flopped just a few years ago, so now they got John Frusciante back (again). One of the festivals they were booked for this year suddenly sold out like hot cakes the minute John’s second return was announced. So like you said, flops usually lead to positive changes in the long run. Same with movies.

By the way,l: I saw your username and profile pic and thought for a sec that you were the real Peter North, but then I read the rest of your post and went “nah, there’s no way a porn star knows all of that!” Lol

FYI - This really is Peter North.  Now that I’m retired, I have more time to follow my buddies like Slash and learn all about the concert industry.

People who are doubting that this tour is going to be a complete flop and failure at the box office, please take off your fanboy blinders and see the facts for what they are:  3 days of presales and a full day of general public sales and only 10% at best of tickets sold in some stadiums points to a massive misjudgement of demand by Axl/TB/Live Nation/Ticketmaster.  It also points to runaway greed by all parties involved.  

History shows that you don’t recover from a slow start like this.  Sections that are completely untouched now and filled with $99 tickets will get marked down by Ticketmaster to 4 for $100 deals...and will still be virtually empty come showtime.  The picture below is Boston Night #2 on the 2016 tour.  This wasn’t as financially painful for all involved because Night #1 was close to a sellout (as it was in most large Northeast markets), so the promoter fee could be allocated from an accounting perspective over two nights.  But if all nights look like this in 2020, as early signs indicate they will, then it will be an epic financial failure - anyone that thinks the band is going to give the fan base consistently energetic performances in the face of that is nuts.

This has happened to the greats before - look up U2’s late 90s PopMart tour as an example.  The good news is that a huge public failure like this is usually the catalyst for big change...in GNR’s case, that could be many things:  the return of original members, replacement of Team Brazil with qualified professional management, public interviews where band members openly discuss the present and future plans of GNR, renewed creative efforts highlighted by a return to the recording studio.  I’m as big of a fan as anyone on this board (my first show was Dec 1988 in Sydney), but I’m rooting for the collapse as I think it will be the only thing that sparks a change and some renewed spirit that we once saw years ago with this group.  Sadly, if things don’t change for the better after this, then all hope is lost - then they’ve simply become a soulless cash machine that couldn’t give a flying s$&t about their fan base.

The name for this leg of the tour should be GNR:DOA...because that’s what demand for tickets is today - dead on arrival.

I just checked the ticket map for my hometown show in Philly and it's nothing but a vast sea of blue dots.  After a few hours of the general sale of the Motley/Leppard/Poison show at the same ballpark, something like 50% to 65% of the tickets were sold...and the prices were higher - a $194 first level Motley seat costs you $150 for GNR, and a $150 HoF level Motley seat is $99 for GNR.

I’m happy to see that the fans have finally spoken.  Axl and Team Brazil can’t forever expect to roll out the same nonsense without consequence.  On the Motley tour, we have every original member of Motley and Poison participating and only 2 non-original Def members (one of whom is replacing a dead guy.)  Meanwhile, Steven and Izzy are alive, healthy and willing to participate, yet Axl & Co are too greedy to bring them on board.  Instead we get a blue haired keyboard player, a drummer that completely butchers the songs, and a Izzy clone.

I feel like everything since 2016 (I’m being charitable here - it’s gone on much longer) has been a dare by Axl/TB to see just how far they can push the fan base by not giving them what they really want.  Well 2/7/20 should go down as the date that they finally got their answer!!!

Hopefully every long time fan knows the drill by now...hear an announcement of an upcoming event, prepare to be disappointed, and then be disappointed once the said event materializes.  This was no different.  First off, GNR releases a wildly overpriced box set (the ripoff factor is highlighted by Niven in his segment) from the 80s and then sends out a band member that wasn't even in the lineup back then to speak for them.  Then even more disappointing, Lafon practically apologizes before each and every question he asks Dizzy that pertains to GNR.  I mean really, WTF?  He teases this as a GNR interview...then is afraid to ask any GNR questions and spends too much time on Dizzy solo career material!  Dizzy would be pumping gas right now if Axl didn't extend him a lifeline back in 1990 - what he does outside of GNR is essentially irrelevant.  If Mitch had to keep asking these non-GNR questions, at least make them interesting, like "What was it like to raise young daughters while you had two large tattoos of naked women with fake breasts on your arms?"

The crew should put a giant postage stamp on the top of this set list because they are officially mailing it in now.  The set list is virtually unchanged since last year.  It's like watching a Broadway show each night of a band dressing up and playing like GNR.  Michelle OR OTGM and Patience OR Don't Cry...but always The Seeker...that's the proverbial kick in the nuts.

9 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

 

This voice is just awful...sounds like Mickey Mouse getting his balls squeezed in a vice while singing old GNR tunes.  Let's face it, right now Axl is the weak link in GNR.  Slash and Duff can make their instruments sound just like 1986-1988 (maybe even better as their performances are no longer clouded by drugs/alcohol), but Axl is a far cry from the band's peak.  As for the business side, once again Axl is the weak link as I believe it is he who is preventing Izzy and Steven (especially Steven) from assuming their proper place in the band, while we get the second rate imposters instead.

Thanks for all the responses.  I respect them all and am amazed by the differences of opinion.  I didn't want to state my perference up front, so I'll state it now - AFD lineup.  I was lucky enough to see the original version (as well as the UYI w/o Izzy and 2016 versions) and each time it lost a bit of the magic and raw energy.  I don't think it's just the passage of time or the nostalgia that I might have for my youth...I just think the same cosmic forces that came together to create the biggest selling debut album in rock history are also required to deliver the best version of this band onstage.

The biggest issue with new music is that it needs to come within 75% of the original to knock any of those songs out of the set list...Axl's been chasing the ghost of AFD for 30 years without success and I think that's a huge reason why he's only released one album in the past 25+ years.  I'd rather drop any of the 4 to 5 CD songs that are currently in the set list for Think About You.  There is a downside in having your first album be your greatest - for the rest of your career you are trying in vain to eclipse that moment in time.  So with that, give me the original 5 back on stage and at least we can celebrate them, as the whole in this case is much greater than the sum of the parts.

If you could only get one, would you rather have a new album by Axl/Slash/Duff and the newbies OR an arena tour by the AFD lineup?

24 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Another lucky fan....

Who are these two women backstage at the GNR show???

A co-headlining tour with Aerosmith makes a lot of sense:

1) Explains the going back to the beginning teaser - 1988 tour where GNR opened for Aerosmith

2) 30th Anniversery of both AFD (7/21/87) and Permanent Vacation (8/31/87)

3) Upcoming leg of the domestic GNR tour still hurt by weak ticket sales, so the fanbase needs something else as a draw

4) Working relationship between the two camps is still fresh - Slash opened for Aerosmith on their 2014 Let Rock Rule tour

However, and this is just my dream scenario (which of course Axl will crush, as he lives especially to crush the dreams of fans that saw the band in the 80s), if Aerosmith can still tour with their original 5, why can't GNR?  If GNR shares the stage with Aerosmith while rolling out the 4 add-ons (while the other two original members are still alive and want to tour with GNR), that will represent yet another epic F U to the fans!!!

11 hours ago, 2414225 said:

i would be totally fine with an official pro shot dvd of this:

 

 

Just look at how weird Axl's outfit was that night...unfortunately, it wasn't just a strange phase, but instead a glimpse into how f'd up he'd become over the next 25 years.

Other thoughts: 1) Sorum's drums are flat and sound like he's banging a nightstick against a coconut 2) Contrary to what Axl and Slash wanted the fanbase to believe, Izzy did in fact move around on stage during that leg of the tour 3) In no way am I sexist, but it is nice to see this band without any female backup singers, horn players, or second blue-haired keyboardists.

The smart and sensible thing is to never get your hopes up as a GNR fan, HOWEVER:

1) In the teaser video for next Wednesday, the heavy focus is AXL, SLASH, DUFF...the extra baggage on stage (Richard, Dizzy, Frank, Melissa) is already being marginalized.  So if 4 people are being scrubbed out of the picture, that leaves openings for...

2) The sales on the next leg of the North American tour have been very weak.  Even when comparing last summer's domestic run to Metallica's current stadium tour, in many big markets (eg Philly), tickets need to be heavily discounted to ensure a full house...something Metallica did not have to resort to.  GNR needs a big marketing boost if they want to move the rest of those tickets for the upcoming tour leg.  Foreign audiences might not care who is on stage, but the US audiences seem to

3) Steven has been muzzled again (and publicly proven to have the ability to play a full show - see Argentina) and Izzy is being reached out to via social media

So regarding next Wednesday, all signs distinctly point in one direction... 

2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yes they forgot Izzy and Steven (of course they still flash the 5 skull logo and the Lies album cover with their faces)...but what they really forgot was, "2016: Band officially jumps the shark by including in their lineup a blue haired singer who is now considered a rock icon."

If Axl is being honest with himself (and we are with ourselves), his career as an artist peeked in the 1986-1988 time frame.  How many of us would want to live with the fact that our professional high point was reached between 24 and 26 years old.  For this reason, I think he's been trying to bury that period and somehow reinvigorate his cultural relevance for years.  Getting on stage for over an hour with Steven and Izzy to play the entire AFD album isn't going to help his fragile psyche.

The logical conclusion to reach is the following: 1) Steven signed a 12 month contract in January 2016 that prevented him from speaking to the press 2) Following the conclusion of that 12 month period, he went to the press with his desire to either play more songs with the existing band or play with the original five 3) The band is going to grant his wish, but only if he signs another 12 month contract, effective immediately, whereby he can't speak to the press

OK, now here is another conclusion based on the fact that we are GNR fans, and as a GNR fan it is an unwritten rule that you are going to be screwed over by Axl Rose, as has been the case since 1990.  1) Axl, in his typical overly sensitive fashion, got very hurt by what Steven said to the press following the conclusion of his 12 month contract 2) Team Brazil, at Axl's direction, put Steven on another 12 month contract simply to keep him quiet 3) Over the next 12 months, the chances of Steven playing the drums on stage with GNR are about the same as any of us on this blog playing the drums on stage with GNR

Remember, the default option when there is a decision to be made is to screw over the greatest majority of fans...people, don't get your hopes up too much...we are likely getting screwed again.

So chicken or egg question:  1) Is Steven going to the press now because he's been told he'll never see the stage again with these guys or 2) Are they so sensitive that he's spoken that now he is effectively done from any future involvement with them?

Steven does have a bit of diarrhea mouth, but what he said in these two interviews wasn't so bad.  Who wouldn't be pissed to fly to South America simply to play one song a night?  Who wouldn't be bummed to spend just a few seconds offstage with the lead singer after 26 years away?  Who wouldn't be annoyed to have to stand offstage watching a blue (or is it pink) haired girl bounce around to the songs you helped create.

All this confirms is what we've known for years...Axl is a legendary performer and talent, but his screwed up childhood really messed him up when money, fame and power got added to the mix.  For better or worse, when you sign up as a GNR fan, you are committing yourself to equal parts great music and great drama.  It's been that way since the beginning and it will be that way until the very end.  Quite sadly, I must add.

Duff in 2016 after Steven hurt his back, "Steven, we aren't going to use you for these shows."

Duff in the Spring of 2017 after seeing all the unsold tickets for the upcoming North American leg, "So Steven, we have a bunch of shows coming up, any chance you and Izzy have free time in your schedule and can join us?"

Something that's become very clear about Axl, Slash and Duff...their number one thing is not the fans nor becoming musically relevant again under the GNR banner, it's simply about lining their pockets.  All those unsold tickets could force them to rethink the direction of things going forward as their appearance on stage along with the Izzy lookalike, the out of time drummer, and the blue haired pogo stick will only take them so far at the box office.

I know I'm just one person here and probably don't speak for the vast majority of fans in 2017, but here is my experience.  I was lucky enough to see the original magic in Sydney in 1988, went to see the watered down version in 1991 (Philly) and 1992 (NYC) and took my wife and son to see some of the nostalgia last summer in Philly.  GNR is going to be 2 hours away this summer...but I wouldn't even go for a free ticket.  At this point it would take the original five as I've seen the drop off between AFD and UYI lineups...and the drop off in hope and vibe even between 2016 and 2017 mirrors that.

How much better would the past 30 years been as a fan of this band if Axl actually bothered to show up at soundchecks on a regular basis?

1) Overall cohesion of the band would have been better as it would have been a 5 man operation, as opposed to the 4+1 group that it became

2) Technical problems like Axl's monitors not working could have been solved then, instead of him storming off during a concert

3) Getting him to the venue earlier during the day of a show would have greatly reduced the 3 hour wait for showtime nonsense

4) We might have received more than just one album over the past 25 years.  Many bands work out new material during soundcheck...collaboration would have been better with the lead singer there

21 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

How can you produce the basic - and admittedly magical - ingredient of Axl and Slash reuniting yet pull such a shite tour from that jaws of victory? They were 80% there! They had succeeded during their biggest ordeal, getting Axl and Slash in one room together! Only Guns N' Roses could then produce such a mean-spirited dog's dinner of a regrouping after that triumph of diplomacy and common sense. Consider the fact that all five band members are still alive (and sober), a luxury not awarded to the majority of ageing bands upon regrouping (e.g. Zeppelin, Doors, Queen), yet they seem determined to never be on stage together in the only combination people desire; they instead have decided to indulge in the same Axly 'Area 51' shenanigans rather than put this band back upon a proper footing. 

Their obsession with money has escalated to hitherto unimaginable proportions - they are essentially just second to Kiss now in flogging overpriced tat. How much money do they need? Their setlists are stodgier than last night's leftover pizza, and beneath it all we are left with the fact that we, in purchasing a ticket, are culpable of the same selling down the river of Stradlin and Adler, (and suffer some stupid girl air-fucking behind an unplugged keyboard!).

Nope Messrs. Rose Hudson McKagan, your two ostracised former band mates are just as important as you are and no amount of fabricated 'back problem' stories and perplexing Axlspeak will change that fact.

I probably wouldn't have went anyway if I had to travel any great distance, although I may have been tempted if this money machine rolled into Manchester or Glasgow. Not now.

Long live Adler and Izzy.

None of it makes any sense from a fan perspective...

...until you take into consideration that the guy who stole the corporate identity had his birth father allegedly rape him and then leave his life around age 2.  He subsequently decided to put his career in the hands of his ex-girlfriends' (who also walked out on him) nanny and the rest of her sycophant children.  Outside of this family, his closest advisor is a long-time hanger-on (now tour manager) who reminds us daily that the President isn't HIS president, and no matter your political leanings, orchestrated an on stage event that was bound to piss off at least half of the bands' fan base.

Which is all a long way of saying that Mr. Axl Rose might not be the greatest decision maker.

As is frequent in the music business, the lineup decisions come down to the bottom line.  The Big 3 were promised $3M a show last summer...from a business perspective, Steven and Izzy would have been a risk to that payday due to their prior unavailabilies, either through health or desire issues.

However, things might be different during this summer's domestic tour.  Take a look at the seat maps on Ticketmaster for shows like Buffalo and Hershey...as things stand now, Live Nation is going to take a big hit on those shows.  Axl might be forced to strike a deal with Izzy and Steven to boost demand.

Though I'm just one person here, this is the only way I'd see them again (after seeing them in 1988, 1991,1992 and 2016.)  Last summer's show was good entertainment, but the magic was missing from when I first saw the original lineup.  My thoughts run parallel to Steven's here...give me the original 5 again, or I too will happily stay home with my wife, friends and drum set!

This has to be the dumbest thing they've done since the Spaghetti Incident.  Instead of a fake Donald Trump on stage, how about a real life version of Izzy and Steven instead.  Now that's something that would appeal to nearly the entire fan base.

As much as having Izzy around matters for the integrity of the band, he was never really known for his live performances.  In fact, his stage presence was pretty underwhelming.  Where he counts is in the studio...but thinking that this band is going to put out another studio album that will materially move the needle on their legacy in a positive way is hopelessly naive.  It's 2016 - bands don't make money in the studio anymore and there is nothing to suggest based on the lack of true hits by anyone associated with this band since 1991 that they even still have what it takes from a songwriting perspective.

What we really should be hoping for is more stage time for Steven.  Unlike Izzy, he really changes the entire vibe of the band and show when he is on stage.  It was true in 1988 and it remains true in 2016.  The guy plays with an infectious, youthful joy that elevates everyone in the stadium.  Also, his being back with the band is a great human interest story of overcoming long odds in recovery from the depths of a serious addiction...not some self-centered, money/ego one percenter problem that's been festering between Izzy and Axl for over 25 years.