raska27

Someone asked about the origins of Crash Diet, Just Another Sunday etc on one of the other topics.

Given they are well known songs, but the origins aren't so well known, I thought it deserved its own topic.

The songs originally came from a West Arkeen Demo tape that he recorded and used GN'R members on some songs. It seems at some point someone has taken the songs GN'R members were on and bootlegged them as GN'R Demos.

Below are pics of the original tape and some info that I grabbed off the net when the tape came up on ebay a few years back.

Maybe Marc can shed some light on when this was most likely recorded, I don't think 89/90 is correct as the seller guessed, I suspect earlier. I remember a Slash interview when he said Crash Diet was from a very old demo from 86 or so.

Getting a look at something like that would be cool.

Marc you obviously still have a lot of stuff that hasn't seen the light of day - do you have further plans to get that out there some day ?

Despite the above statements, the first version of It's So Easy to go out (ie to DJ's in the UK) didn't have any swearing (although the single that went to stores was the album version). Most of the ending of the song was edited to make it that way, but in the middle Axl does sing "Why don't you just.......BACK OFF".

'You're Crazy' was also originally called 'Fucking Crazy', but Axl didn't want to see that on the back of the record as he was worried it would turn people off. There's an interview out there just as Appetite is coming out where Izzy finds out about the name change in the interview and Axl talks about it.

So again I think the above statements are just BS trying to be perceived a certain way - as compromises were made.

In terms of the original question though, I do think the songs just came naturally, and if they were delivered another way, I think their character would have been altered - so I doubt it was a conscious thing to say this song will or won't have some swearing in it. I think Brownstone is the best example, it would have been very easy to change that one f-bomb if there was any sort of thought put in to the song writing about the effect of some swearing in the songs. I really doubt they were thinking about any songs being on top of the charts when Appetite was being written - I think they were just doing what they wanted which is why it came out so good.

Despite the song name, I think in the Duff quote posted earlier he is referring to My Michelle.

I always wondered if the last part of YCBM was written later, since although you can interpret it a number of ways, it always reminded me of the situation that was going on with Adler at the time & trying to get the new album out :

While you're breakin' down my back n'

I been rackin' out my brain

It don't matter how we make it

'Cause it always ends the same

You can push it for more mileage

But your flaps r' wearin' thin

And I could sleep on it 'til mornin'

But this nightmare never ends

Don't forget to call my lawyers

With ridiculous demands

An you can take the pity so far

But it's more than I can stand

'Cause this couchtrip's gettin' older

Tell me how long has it been

'Cause 5 years is forever

An you haven't grown up yet

That show was during the Iron Maiden tour, Axl's throat gave out on that tour, so they had to leave the tour and L.A. Guns joined in GN'R's place. I think he later claimed it was from singing 'Tastes Good Don't It'

The first night at Irvine, some of GN'R jumped up for a jam with L.A. Guns and if I remember correctly plated the LA Guns song 'Nothing to Lose' with them. There is audio of the Jam/Nothing to Lose floating around. Now apparently Slash claims that LA Guns sabotaged their performance and I've read interviews where he says that was the end of any civil relationship between him and Tracii.

Anyway, the next night instead of jumping up with LA Guns, GNR (ex Axl) jumped up and did It's So Easy and Marseille with Duff singing.

Couple of side notes, on GNR & the Angels - Duff is wearing an Angels shirt in the It's So Easy video, Angels opened for GNR at their '88 Sydney show and during the show Axl talks about how much of an influence the song 'Take a long Line' was for him. Axl and Slash also jumped up for a couple of songs with the Angels at the Palace in LA in '89. There's a photo with Doc, Axl and Angry Anderson all on stage from this gig. I'm pretty sure I posted it in this forum already, so you can probably find it with a search.

So how did the writing process differ from Appetite to Lies to UYI ?

Hey Marc, how do you think the Illusions would have been different if Steven & Niven were still around & Izzy more involved ?

Hey Marc, you seem really adamant that the band wouldn't have done well without Axl, but do you really believe that ?

Don't get me wrong, I think Axl was awesome on the first two albums, but I think the band would have been successful no matter who was singing. If anything I would say based on the last 20 odd years, Axl depended more on the others for his success.

I certainly agree without Axl there is no GN'R - it's a different band, but equally without Steven, Izzy, Duff or Slash there was no GN'R. Even Niven says in interviews GNR ended with Farm Aid & Steven's last gig.

Hi Marc,

Between Lies and UYI, there was obviously a pretty big shift in the band and nothing was really the same again and the downward spiral had set in. There were 3 pretty big personnel shifts, during this time, first they lost Adler who was so important to the sound & feel, then they lost Niven who was so important to the strategy & drive, and then they lost Izzy who was so important to the band & direction.

Given you saw all this unfold first hand and are one of the few who knew the inner workings, how did this disrupt the balance of the band & how do you think things would be different if these changes were avoided ?

I don't understand the significance of the background to the contracts. Why does it matter how the signing came about ? It just seems completely irrelevant to me.

Axl ended up with the name and all that matters is how he chooses to exploit that brand name. I think most would agree he's made a real mess of the name, but at the end of the day he is selling way more tickets using it than if he released CD and toured under a solo name or new band name. It's probably all he cares about, because he sure doesn't care about credibility.

Not sure Duff and Slash have much reason to complain, what Axl has done by continuing on with different members is no different to what that did when Steve and Izzy left.

I'm pretty sure Matt didn't join the Cult until '89.

That is some really cool footage. Nice find !

IMO the pinnacle of the band really was from late '87 to mid '88 - everything just came together at this time perfectly - and this again shows it.

I mean I love that whole era with the original band, but of the 5 years they were together, that was the time they were really at their best.

Marc do you know why Izzy does not play on all the songs on UYI? Slash plays both parts on

some songs. Is it because Izzy just didn't show up or was Izzy fine with Slash doing it all?

I don't know but it could be he didn't want to play on some of the songs or maybe Slash just did it because Izzy was starting to get a bit flakey and not showing up. I just saw Mike Clink yesterday. Next time I will ask him what he knows about that.

That is something I've always wondered about Civil War, so much was made of how messed up Steven was during the recording, that no one really noticed that Izzy didn't even make it onto the recording..... I always wondered why that was and why Steven was the guy singled out - it really was a bad move in my mind moving forward without him in some capacity - it just changed so much of the band sound & dynamic.

Slash and Duff said that the UYI recording sessions were kind of a prequel to what was gonna happen in 1994. They would be down on the studio just the three, Matt, Duff and Slash and Izzy would pop in for his first takes and Axl would only show up after he'd heard the version the band recorded. I must be the only one thinking this way, but I'm glad Axl only accepted to record vocals when he felt that the take was perfect, the UYI are perfect records. It was kinda like the White Album of Guns.

As much as I love the Illusion records, they are far from perfect. Izzy is way to low in the mix, the same for Slash when he plays rhythm and Matts drumming is to repetitious and bombastic. Axl went a little overboard with the sound effects,imo.

It sucks that Steven only did Cival War. I wish he could have done a few more like Perfect Crime, Back Off Bitch, Don't Cry and November Rain. I think he would have made Bad Obsession a better song to, that song is Mr. Brownstone pt 2 and being that Steven was living that life he could relate to that and the other songs alot better than Matt, adding his touch and feel along with his aggression and subtleties.

There are demos and rehearsals and the like out there & they really tell the story to me. The '86 demo of Back off Bitch, for instance, in my mind is way superior to the UYI version and a lot less effort would have went into it. After reading the above, I went back and listened to the Mate's Rehersals from '89 again, and in particular Locomotive & Bad Apples feel so much better with Adler on the drums than the Illusion versions. Obviously there are quite a few live versions of songs that ended up on UYI & Spaghetti with Adler as well.

The ones I always wanted to hear were You Could Be Mine (which a tape of must exist somewhere) and Perfect Crime which Marc has but is keeping a tight hold of.

Not that I really care since as far as I'm concerned GN'R's last show was Farm Aid and it's been a different band ever since then & up until that point they didn't have a reputation for being late.......but I think there is an element to truth to the whole "power going to head" thing since whenever they were opening or playing festivals or whatever else where if they weren't on stage on time they wouldn't get to play, they always made it on stage on time. It was only after there were no consequences of being late (apart from fines), that they started going on late. And to me that just screams power going to your head and disrespect to the fans, whether intended, realized or whatever else.

I reckon there is an album worth of original material in there written prior to '87 or '88. If you include anything that hasn't been studio released on Appetite or Lies (ie b-sides count for inclusion as does the LLAS tunes) I think you get an album - and this is just songs we know about, I'm sure I've heard interviews with band members where they make reference to some other songs that never got released. Anyway in no particular order :

1) Shadow of Your Love (performed in '85)

2) It Tastes Good Don't It ? (performed in '88)

3) Cornshucker / Cornshucker Stomp (I assume these are the same) (on the Sound City demo '86 & the Lies sessions)

4) Ain't Goin' Down (performed in '86)

5) Indiana Ain't My Kind of Town (performed in '86)

6) Plague (Sound City demo '86)

7) Untitled Unfinished Song (Sound City Demo '86)

8) You Could Be Mine (lyrics in Appetite sleeve so must have been written around then sometime '87)

9) Perfect Crime (performed in '86)

10) November Rain (Sound City Demo '86)

11) Don't Cry (performed in '85)

12) Back of Bitch (performed in '85)

13) Reckless Life (performed in '85)

14) Move to the City (performed in '85)

+ there are the songs from the West Arkeen demo tape that some of GN'R played on and GN'R later re-recorded, so you could include some of these :

15) Just Another Sunday

16) Crash Diet

17) Too Much Too Soon

18) Sentimental Movie

19) Bad Obsession

20) Yesterdays

21) The Garden

I think you could make a pretty cool 10 or 12 song album out of the above

Is there something legally preventing you from putting up more vids, or you just don't feel right about doing it ?

The thing I really would love to see / hear is the Perfect Crime with Adler on drums.....as far as I'm aware that's about the only song out there from the original band that's known to exist and hasn't surfaced in some form.

Oh ok - were you at school with Steve as well or just Slash ?

What were your thoughts when Steve got fired ? After watching the band build and dynamic between the five being so important, did you see it as the end or the beginning of the end of that original essence ?

Hi Marc,

Were you still close with Steven after he was fired from GN'R and if so did you see any post GN'R Roadcrew shows ?

I've got a video of a show in NYC - pretty cool band, it's a shame it didn't work out.

Do you think they will ever see the light of day ?

And what do you think is the coolest thing you have on video that isn't already out there ?

Hi Marc,

Slash says that he wrote songs with Mustaine and almost joined Megadeth after Chris Poland left the band in around '86....do you know much about this or if any recordings were ever made ?

Izzy, Slash & Axl did Under My Wheels with Alice Cooper for the soundtrack, which I think played over the end credits from memory.

I also saw an interview a long time ago with Duff & Slash that was allegedly an outtake from Decline....someone else told me there were quite a few outtakes floating around so who knows.

Either way, Spheeris would have been aware of GN'R when she made the movie - Faster Pussycat and the Cathouse got a fair run and they obviously came out at the same time as GNR and were doing the same rounds.

One was an Angels gig where Angry Anderson, Axl and I believe Slash jumped up in '89 and the other was a Steve Jones gig where Axl gets up, also I think in '89 ?

At 5:34 in the below video, this guy named Howard Teman says he filled in for Adler (when he had his broken hand) for a gig at Whiskey where the band opened with Used to Lover Her. Never heard of this before. Can anyone shed any light ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vFMQobukaU

The gig at the Stone was Thursday 28th August, with Jetboy & Vain.

The girl wasn't topless. The first version of the video had a couple of extra scenes in the bedroom with Adler, in one of them he was licking her shoulder. That's the main difference I remember and the easiest way to tell if its the original version or the slightly edited version.