marlenaire

19 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Hey everyone

I directed @marlenaire to this thread as it seems like she joined up to discuss various aspects of Axl's past. Please can we debate without troll hunting/sarcastic emojis and memes, it's not that long ago a number of you were complaining about newcomers not being given a bit of understanding whilst they get to grips with the dynamics of this thread.

However @marlenaire please understand that people on this thread and forum tend to argue quite robustly and it isn't personal to you. We do not allow personal attacks or insults here but reading through I think everyone has been civil in their disagreement.

You make some interesting points for debate although I don't think it's possible to state Axl has a specific disorder even if traits are evident. I hope you stay around and get to know some of the posters here because debating will become easier with time.

Thank you Alfierose. Just wish to straight this - ALL I write are my personal opinions, so when I say he has this disorder, I do mean it is ACCORDING TO ME ENTIRELY, based on my knowledge and experience. I do not mean it as a fact. Thanks for understanding.

7 minutes ago, stella said:

Wow. NOBODY here is ridiculing you. Nobody's being mean. Nobody targeted you as a person. If you take disagreement as "mean," I don't even know what to tell you.

And a psychological study by experts from Harvard working from primary source material is not the same as someone reading a message board and some news articles, making an armchair diagnosis and deciding it's fact.

Where did you get the idea on what material I am working on besides articles ? 

I do not want to agree or disagree on what I am allowed to write or say and I am doing only that since the beginning. Never got a chance to write anything about what I am working on.

And yes, many here were ridiculing and twisting my words - please read the previous posts.

6 hours ago, stella said:

 Actually, the respected body of written and filmed information on Hitler does not formally diagnose anything. They might restate Dx that were actually *in his medical record and diagnosed by HIS doctors,* and they might say, "He had ____ symptoms, which might have suggested _______ illness." But no, there isn't a reputable physician or mental health clinician anywhere who will tell you Hitler definitively had anything in particular unless it is something that was diagnosed by his own doctors. Same thing with George III. He had a lot of symptoms that would suggest a specific rare blood disorder, but since there is no tangible backup, reputable historians and doctors will not say he DID have it. They will only restate his symptoms.

The only time they will ever diagnose a historical figure - and that is a big ONLY- is when there's solid DNA evidence OR there's an actual body they can examine. Obviously that is for physical health issues and not mental ones. The Egyptian mummies would be an example. Yes, they have given some of those mummies medical diagnoses but they've also given them clinical evaluations, put them through CT scans and such.

 

"In 1943 William Donovan the director of the Office of Strategic Services (the forerunner to the CIA) approached Harvard psychologist Walter Langer and asked him to construct a psychological profile of Adolf Hitler.

Langer put together a team of psychologists and researchers. They interviewed key informants who knew Hitler personally and drew upon over 1000 pages of background research from a document known as The Hitler Source Book."

"The most famous psychological study of Hitler was done by Henry A. Murray, former director of the Harvard Psychological Clinic".

I am amazed how you all here focused on, dwelled and ridiculed the wording I am using and not on what I actually have to say.

Thanks to all that weren't mean.

14 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I forgot to ask you. Are you a fan of GnR? Axl? Or studying him as research about narcissism? Just curious  

No problem. I am a fan of GNR music. And yes, I am studying Axl as research about narcissism.

5 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

It was a joke  Since You make it sounds like People with Phobia, Anxiety N' Depression are narcissism 

 

I didn't say that at all. I said it is a case with Axl and whoever is a Narcissist.

3 minutes ago, stella said:

 Actually, the respected body of written and filmed information on Hitler does not formally diagnose anything. They might restate Dx that were actually *in his medical record and diagnosed by HIS doctors,* and they might say, "He had ____ symptoms, which might have suggested _______ illness." But no, there isn't a reputable physician or mental health clinician anywhere who will tell you Hitler definitively had anything in particular unless it is something that was diagnosed by his own doctors. Same thing with George III. He had a lot of symptoms that would suggest a specific rare blood disorder, but since there is no tangible backup, reputable historians and doctors will not say he DID have it. They will only restate his symptoms.

The only time they will ever diagnose a historical figure - and that is a big ONLY- is when there's solid DNA evidence OR there's an actual body they can examine. Obviously that is for physical health issues and not mental ones. The Egyptian mummies would be an example. Yes, they have given some of those mummies medical diagnoses but they've also given them clinical evaluations, put them through CT scans and such.

 

Ok. Axl has almost all symptoms that suggest Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Just now, killuridols said:

Have you seen this?

What is thaaaaaaaaat?

Hahaha - I think he wants to go to the loo

1 minute ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Not like the claims you are making.

???

1 minute ago, stella said:

There is a marked difference between noting specific documented behavior or actions - for instance, saying "Hitler was the Fuhrer of Germany and made policies that killed millions of people" vs  giving someone a formal diagnosis from the DSM - for instance, saying "Hitler acted this way because he had this specific disease" while positioning oneself as a scholar or mental health clinician. You really don't get that, do you?

And yet, he was diagnosed by some well respected and not-his-doctors psychologists.

Just now, Rocketqueen76 said:

Pump your breaks young lady, let me ask you the same question....

I was asked this question earlier - and by asking you, I am trying to prove that indeed some things can be proven and said without being somebody's doctor.

10 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

You can't even begin to compare Hitler and Napoleon to Axl. Hitler and Napoleon were disturbed on a whole different level in a completely different context.

How do you know Hitler was disturbed? How can you judge him if you weren't his personal doctor??

2 minutes ago, marlenaire said:

I do not compare them. I am saying there are facts about them all from independent sources. Ok, Let's switch Hitler for Mother Theresa or Ghandi.

And btw - how do you know Hitler was disturbed? How can you judge him if you weren't his personal doctor??

Just now, Rocketqueen76 said:

You can't even begin to compare Hitler and Napoleon to Axl. Hitler and Napoleon were disturbed on a whole different level in a completely different context.

I do not compare them. I am saying there are facts about them all from independent sources. Ok, Let's switch Hitler for Mother Theresa or Ghandi.

6 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Damn I hate having to go on extended military duty, seems I miss all the good stuff. 

To the newcomer I say welcome to the thread, but I have to agree with everyone here. I don't mean any harm, but making such a claim about having studied someone's psychological case without knowing them is very uncool and kind of hurtful. The only true way to know is if you were personally treating him. 

I don't agree, but let's drop it. You did not need to meet Hitler personally to know he was disturbed, correct? Or Napoleon? There are so many independent sources confirming certain facts. That's all I'm saying - there are certain facts.

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Because "people", you mean "fans", just like to comment on anything and that's it... comments... hardly one of them know the truth to the stories, all they know is what they read from media and some other made up lies that have their start in places like Instagram, Twitter and TumblR, which are all a nest of snakes.

I don't know what they mean by "nasty things" to Axl.... If you name them, we could get somewhere....

No, Erin recently nothing. That was was 8 months ago... 8 MONTHS AGO... so that's not recent and it was exactly what @MillionsOfSpiders explained above. If you read "hate" in that, then you have a problem.

Erin was subpoenaed by Stephanie. Most people who don't know the U.S. laws do not understand or grasp the meaning of this term. I think we have explained it many times in the old thread, so maybe @Frey, who is indexing it, may have a link at hand to where you can be redirected and read and learn what subpoena means. Or maybe you can look it up on your own.

I fail to see how "Erin is so against" Stephanie now just because she posted ONE thing in her old IG account.

That makes sense, and that's what I wanted to find out here, because as I said, I only found some blurry comments but couldn't find where it comes from. I thought I am missing some facts. 8 months is recent - if we take the whole GNR story which begins over 30 years ago. 

15 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

 8 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Axl's former "therapist" (charlatan) from the 90's.

Thank you both. 

15 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

Thank you both. 

killuridols - By charlatan Do you mean his psychic Yoda (Sharon Maynard)?

10 minutes ago, killuridols said:

How do you study psychology? Do you actually go to College, which one?
Can I know what books do you read? Can you name some authors?

 

Both of these questions are false premises, just like all the questions from your first post.

When you say "people", who are you really talking about? Name them or group them... People is too vague....

Second question.... where do you base this one? Hating Stephanie? how? Where? Can you show proof?

As far as I know, Erin has a private Instagram for her closest friends and it is locked. She's not in any other social media anymore. All has been removed.
So please explain what is this "battlefield" that you are seeing because I don't see it anywhere.

Axl's former "therapist" (charlatan) from the 90's.

When I say people - I mean people on forums in the Internet. I saw opinions that Stephanie did some nasty things to Axl - and I wonder what else except for the law suit.

Erin recently posted few sentences after Stephanie's son quoted Axl on Steph's birthday " I was hit by a Mack truck and the plates said Seymour" Erin commented that "it was cruel and unnecessary, and one day I will tell my truth." She also added "like mother like son" .

Erin was testifying with Stephanie back in the 90s and I wonder why is she so against her now, defending Axl all of the sudden.

5 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Erin clearly loved Axl for who he was, he treated her beyond disgustingly.

Stephanie Seymour just seemed to be with  Axl because he was a famous rock star. He treated her horribly too. 

Thats it, I think. From my point of view, that is why people think one is better than the other, but are under no Illusions that Axl deserved either - not here anyway. 

 I don't think Erin hates Stephanie , she just seemed to want the post her son made taken down as she thought it was in poor taste. 

 

I see, thank you <3

1 minute ago, Jane M. said:

Sorry to interrupt, who is Suzie London?

Axxl's therapist back in the 90s who was travelling with GNR when were touring. She also appeared in Don't Cry video. According to Duff, she was saying to Axl things he wanted to hear, and was apparently making his disorder even bigger.

Just now, MillionsOfSpiders said:

What is it you want to know about SS and Erin. When you say camp Erin and camp Stephanie, do you mean why do the fans take sides? 

Yes. What is it that people can have against both of them ?

Also why is Erin hating Stephanie so much lately ?

2 minutes ago, stella said:

I don't think anyone here thinks you're a mental health professional or clinician, don't worry about that. Everything you've said shows that you are not.

Nobody called you stupid.

You don't seem to get it, though: if you are not the man's personal health provider, YOU DON'T GET TO DIAGNOSE HIM, nor do you get to walk around declaring you know definitively what his Dx is. It doesn't matter if you are "into psychology." Hey, I am into nuclear physics, but they aren't going to let me run the Hadron Collider.

Yes, people are vocally disagreeing, but perhaps that is because they take objection to what you are saying. Also, since this is a message board people can and do disagree. Lord knows I've had my arguments here, LOL.
 

You don't seem to get that I am writing my opinions here, which I am entitled to have, correct?

I am here to get the answers regarding Erin and Stephanie - can you say sth in this matter?

9 minutes ago, stella said:

Actually? I do.

1. Real psychologists and psychiatrists would NEVER come into a public forum and disclose someone's diagnosis or clinical information, if they actually knew it firsthand. it's a breach of professional ethics and a HIPAA violation.
2. Real psych professionals know it is unethical and dangerous to "diagnose" a patient they have never seen. It opens them up to liability - and they can't, because they have not directly and personally evaluated the patient. That goes for all doctors, by the way.

I am not a professional psychologist - I said I am in psychology and I've been studying it. I am not bound by any law in this matter, but it doesn't mean I do not have knowledge or I'm stupid. That's why I can allow myself for writing here. Really, if you discard what I have to say, then why do you even bother to reply?

Just now, Fansince88 said:

This ^^^

The fact that you've never met him. 

How do you know that?? I never said anything about meeting him or not.

2 minutes ago, stella said:

Alan Niven has an axe to grind against Axl, and has for a long time. In addition, he's not able to armchair diagnose Axl either. Plenty of people use the word "narcissist" without referring to the actual disorder. 

Plus...you say you have been studying his case. Really? How much time have you spent with him? How many hours? How many of his psych evals have you personally read? What kind of diagnostic procedures have you done? The answer would probably be zero, because if you were his doctor you'd be bound by HIPAA and patient confidentiality laws.

Have you ever even met the man? If you haven't and you're not his clinician, you don't have the information to diagnose him with anything - and it's IMHO not okay to try to do so from reading media reports.

I'm sorry to sound bitchy with this, especially since you are new here, but I think it's super uncool to try to diagnose someone you don't even with a psych condition.
 

And what makes you say that I am wrong? You do not know my skills or experience, correct?

Just now, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Slash was talking about Scott Weiland when he said extreme narcissistic behaviour 

http://loudwire.com/slash-talks-scott-weiland-diva-behavior-feud-axl-rose-kurt-cobain/

He was talking about both Scott and Axl.

21 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

 

there is no way axl is close to autistic or even bi-polar - the narcissist thing holds some ground with the over the top lateness as the main indicator

however, since NITL and ACDC Axl has turned a new leaf it appears as the peace he's made with slash has grounded him better  

the better question is what drugs have potentially impaired his judgement during any dark periods - i think he took a lot of psych pills at some point or who knows and in certain instances he appears very genuine particularly in the late 80's when it looked like he was straight 

I totally agree with the first sentence. Lack of empathy on different occasions - is also very good indicator.

Narcissists with age calm down a bit. Also, knowing that his lineup of GNR is leading nowhere he goes back to the place where he last remember to be the most successful, because he needs the confirmation of his existence from the outside. Confirmation that he is the greatest. Money stands on second place -  also important of course, but not the most.

So like in the days when GNR was getting to be known - he can stretch and compromise for greater good.

No, his disease didn't disappear. In fact, I really do feel pity on him.

Drugs, alcohol - they are called - "the fillers". They fill the emptiness, "cure" depression, and blur the reality when it becomes too painful to confront.

9 minutes ago, stella said:

If you are studying psych, you know that you're making hypotheses, not theories, right? Scientific theories are actually things that have been verified through extensive first-hand (not distance) experimentation and observation. Like the theory of evolution. Hypotheses are speculative guesses that have not actually been studied.

 

I really don't think it's right to make an armchair psychiatric diagnosis of someone this way. As I'm sure you know, many, many disorders and syndromes contain elements of anxiety, depression, phobias, etc. and those things also stand alone in the DSM. And as @MillionsOfSpiders mentioned, what you're postulating has never even been speculated by the people who actually know Axl.

 

The only reason I'm okay with saying Axl is an introvert and has had trauma is because HE has said those things - he's told everyone, and I have no reason to disbelieve someone's assessment of themselves.

 

English is not my first language, so I might have used incorrect word .

Actually there was someone who said this about Axl (among other things) - it was Alan Niven in his latest interview, last year it was I think.

Also Slash mentioned it in the interview with Howars Stern in 2012 it was. He said it was "extreme Narcissism"

One of the things about Narcissists is that they are pathological liars, especially when talking about themselves. Also, he definitely wasn't aware what is really wrong with him.

As I said earlier, I am studying his case and Disorders for a long time now, it is not taken out of the blue.