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BBF stated several times that he wasn't going to be on the album because it was too late.

Whoa! I'm not sure where I've ever heard BBF state this publicly anywhere, but I can tell you that unless BBF lied to me to my face, (which I can't for the life of me figure why he'd do that) he is on the album.

I met him after the show at Scotiabank Place in Ottawa on November 17th. I asked him point blank if he played in any of the tracks on the new CD, his exact answer: "Some, some."

Mind you I don't believe that's groundbreaking news because I'm certain this has also been confirmed a few times in other comments by BBF publicly.

*Edited for spelling errors*

I'd like to chime in on some thoughts.....for some reason unfathomable this was deleted instantly at htgth (sorry Madison, just staing fact).

Here are some thoughts:

Having already posted in this thread, but since posting having had the chance to read Merck's reply, here are a few thoughts:

To the numerous comments that Axl helped in the deception by promising the disc this year on the Eddie Trunk show as well as at the VMA's:

In both Axl's and Merck's letters it is agreed that there was a strategy developped (Merck places this agreement in Feb of '06) whereby the CD would be released this year.

As a result Axl made those assurances on the two occassions mentioned above. I believe that when Axl made those statements he fully believed them to be true, based on the strategy developped by Merck.

To the comments regarding Merck continuing to present the CD coming out in '06, likely after he knew well that it wasn't:

Axl maintained in his letter that this was Merck's doing, and Merck explained it away as taking a shot at Rolling Stone magazine. While I see Merck's effort to spin this after the fact, the truth is that he was well aware, for a while now, that he fans did in fact interpret that as a promise from the G'NR camp, and yet he allowed that misperception to continue. he even contributed to it with follow up statements about it maybe just appearing in a music store unannounced.

This ultimately was the downfall of Merck. Having said that, I don't think the man should be judged too harshly.

How should Merck be perceived/remembered?

Alot of strong reaction when this was first announced, many people glad that Merck was shown the door. I have to admit this was my initial reaction as well.

After reading Merck's letter, I see another side. As mentioned above, Merck really did continue to perpetrate a myth that the CD would be out this year, even though at that point he likely knew it wasn't.

I don't however think he did this to be malicious, or to jerk with the fans.

The truth is that this CD has been 10 years in the making, and this is now the second North Amercian tour that has been undertaken without the release of the album.

I can surely see how the label might be reluctant to continue to pour money into the project if they will the album will never arrive.

Put yourself in the label's shoes: Axl at the VMA's and Eddie Trunk promises an '06 release. A few recording sessions arranged to put the finishing touches on the album (as described in Merck's letter) failed to complete the album.

Not assigning blame here, as Merck rightly indicated, I don't beleiev you can just decide to schedule creativity. I believe Axl tried his best to deliver, and it just didn't happen.

Can you blame the record company at this point, faced with the fact that the album will likely not surface in '06 despite best intentions, and as Mercks stated with teh band's recent history working against it, can you blame the label for not sinking any more money into the project? It's a tough call.

Can you then blame Merck for doing what he felt was necessary to try to obtain the funding necessary to finish the project?

Look, Merck falls on the sword for this one, and probably deservedly. As he said, fair or not, the buck stops with him.

But beofre we all rejoice that the wicked witch is dead, consider that it is just before Christmas, the man has been very publicly and very unceremoniously turfed out.

Also consider that over the last five years Merck has sunk alot of his time and effort into this project as well, and when it finally sees the light of day, he will be on the outside looking in.

I'd say he suffered plenty.

Still lots of love for Axl and the band, but now, how about a little compassion for Merck? (Never EVER thought I'd be the one saying that!!)

***It's obvious, but this is an opinion not fact***

My opinion i swe won't see the album this year.

I think the reason that we haven't been told is rather simple, they're in the middle of a tour.

Let's face it, without any new albums in the last ten years or so, GnR is touring based on the older catalogue and some of the tracks off the new album that we've already heard.

They are also benfitting from a pretty devout following. Not sure how many bands would have this kind of devotion after so many changes, so long without music.

So how do you generate enthusiasm for a tour under these circumstances?

"Leak" a few new tracks on the net that people haven't heard before.

Reignite the enthusiasm for the new album.

Promise the release of the new album.

Then head out on tour.

Now if the album weren't going to come out this year, why would you say so during the tour, when the possibly exists of having some backlash, negative publicity? Why risk having people not come out to the shows?

This is a business, and they are being very smart about it. Also remember, the labels make most of the money off of CD sales, while the artists make the most money from the tour.

So if you were Axl, and we know how Axl is a perfectionist, and in his own way known to be stubborn, would you find this that out of character?

Axl won't release the album until he's good and ready. Not may artists have that kind of pull over a label.

Axl does, and more power to him.

Personally, I can tell you I am eagerly awaiting the CD, but if it doesn't come out in '06, then I'll buy it in '07 or '08 or whenever the hell he releases it.

And I'll be lined up to buy tickets to the shows when they come through this part of the world.

I went to see the boys last Friday here in Ottawa, and got to meet Bumblefoot after the show, and I'll tell you, this band and this album is worth the wait.

Just my .02

You cant deny that these 2 1/2 songs showing up on the internet is creating tremendous buzz for the band.

We are all Guns fans here, but the fact is that to much of the outside world, G'n'R has been of the radar screen for a long time.

These tracks have completely changed that.

Most of the rock stations in North America have either talked about the leaks or played parts or all of the leaked tracks.

I know it violates G'n'Rs copyrights, but anyone that thinks that these leaks will hurt the band financialy need to give thir heads a shake.

Personally, I've got the demos (Better is absolutely awesome btw) and there isn't a chance in hell that these songs have done anything BUT whet my appetite for the album release.

Heres hoping we have a cd to play in March.

Now that you've seen the link, the rest of the guys get together, need a vocalist.....COULD IT BE????

I dare not get my hopes up, but it should make for good discussion.....

No rumors, reported at Reuters, a very well respected agency.

Heres the link:

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsess...storyID=1893087

Hi everyone, this is my first post here, I've been reading all this stuff for awhile, and there is a lot of emotion and stuff flying around.

I don't know any more than most of you about what went down and why, but just take a look at the facts...

Look at the section of mygnr.com that deals with the concert reviews.

GNR  has typically gone on stage about 10:45 - 11:00 in alot of these venues.

I was at the Toronto concert and they were late getting on stage, and some people were restless, particulary given their history in Canada (Vancouver, the Montreal fiasco w/ Metallica...)

But in the end they came on and they were worth the wait.

Some of these fans in Philly deserve SOME of the blame for what happened.

Now thats not to say it was all there fault, but just follow this through with me...and in the end you will most likely agree.

I will focus on what we DO know and try to fill in the blanks...

1. I think the whole band was there, and at some level intended to play.

Why? In Vancouver, when Axl no showed, they did not even let fans into the building..which makes sense, if the headliner is not there, or not en route, you don't go ahead, or else you risk getting what you got in Mtl and St. Louis and Philly, people INSIDE your venue, trashing it (and in the case of Mtl, trying to burn it down)

The rest of the band would have known where Axl was and this never would have gone as far as it did, if he was still in NYC....Furthermore, after the Vancouver incident, it was widely reported that in order to avoid any further hiccups in travel arrangements, Axl would travel with the rest of the band.

Also, CKY reported a blurb on their website about Philly and I'm sure if it was a simple case of no show, they'd have mentioned it.

On top of that, the one major thing that you have to remember is that this has been a PR nightmare for most everyone involved, from the venue, to the promoter to the band with fans poiting fingers and laying the blame,  if it was simply a no show alot of people could wash their hands of it and simply say so.

The other peculiar thing is the behaviour of the band itself...

The tour got off to a rocky start, and some poor attendance figures at some early dates, but was definately picking up steam...a packed house in Toronto, a strong outing in Boston and a rousing success in NYC...then you believe Axl will pull a no show NOW??

C'mon, he had packed houses waiting for him at the next stops, all he had to do was show up, get paid, built up the hype for the new album, the man is not going to spend all this time getting this band together, writing these songs, going on tour only to stop it when the momentum is at its greatest point..

So if you add this all up, it adds to only one thing....

The venue management and the promoter clearly had reason to believe the band was going to make good...otherwise you guys would have never been allowed inside the arena.

The fact that Clear Channel took as long as it did to cancel the rest of the tour, (if it was a no show again, the decision would have been very easy to make AND to justify with a statemenent , which they have not done)

The fact that the band itself has said absolutely nothing, guarranteed, if Axl no shows, you'd of had it confirmed by now, SOMEONE in the band would have had the word spread around directly or indirectly, to distance themselves from all this controversy.

Very simple. There is a problem within the band. The band is there, venue management thinks theyre gonna play, promoter thinks theyre gonna play, hell band intends to play...then something happens......maybe there is some truth to the story about the confrontaion with security at the venue, maybe when it happens someone in the band says something to Axl he doesnt like and it falls apart there, maybe some in the band are being tired of being called simply a cover band for the old GNR.....the point is, thats the answer that makes the most sense given the events.

This also explains the delay in CC cancelling the rest of the dates ofiicially, they wanted to take a few days to see if things would sort themselves out and if anything could be salvaged....

This also explains why the band has not released a statement...if they were there, and didn't wanna go on stage due to rowdy fans, guarranteed they make a statement for a couple of reasons...

1. To back up Mr. Rose and kill the rumors that he no showed,

2.  To keep whatever fan interest and excitement they revived going, in order to keep any hopes of a tour and an album alive and soothe some pretty irate fans.

The fact this didnt happen is proof enough that these guys aren't backing each other up, they aren't trying to salvage the tour, their album, their fans.....

There is something that happened with the band, someone relapsed, someone snapped, either way I am so sorry for the fans in Philly and everywhere else that did not get a chance to experience the most amazing concert   I have ever seen in my life...

No matter if you are a fan of the old or the new, no denying these guys were a great group of musicians and they put on a graet show.

This is really long and rambling, but I'd be interested in reading your comments, (if you could make it through this thing!