fiefer1

Holy shit, Monsters. Nice work, gents!

There just wasn't a hit single.

Musically, I liked the progression the band took towards more sonically diverse tunes (Get Out the Door an example) but it seemed anytime there was great music, Weiland's lyrics and hooks came up short (Just Sixteen, that solo in American Man!). She Builds Quick Machines was lifeless, I never cared for the ballads (The Last Fight) and neither did the public. 

Just a simple miss tbh but I did find myself listening to this album a lot when it came out, and was in the rotation for a couple of years. The music was great in parts, and I was in a bit of a "new music drought" during those years. It should have sold more, however... I'm shocked it didn't go gold at the very least!

This is a brilliant idea.

I'm sure what you're proposing isn't an easy turnkey solution but I'd love to find out how you do it. One of the difficult things, I'd imagine, is replicating Axl's incredible vocal range. I'd see if you can train or combine models on a few of his octaves - speaking simply "It's So Easy" vs. "Estranged" vs. "SCOM" - and be able to layer this into one track.

These AI cuts have been fantastic particularly where he could've used more time in the studio and the vocals lacked range/rasp and timing (TWAT first half, IRS, Catcher, Atlas Shrugged, State of Grace) vs. stronger vocal cuts (If the World, Better, Scraped, Eye on You etc) that sound like they were recorded before/after he had some vocal training.

Songs I'd love to hear vocals on are the instrumentals that I usually go back to:

1. Tonto
2. Mustache
3. Zodiac 13

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

Better, albeit the lyrics and vocal melody  in the chorus were a bit lazy. Perhaps is a song I enjoy, even if I think he needed some more work in the minimal lyrics and go up an octave on the bridge. 

I think if Axl could’ve put down strong vocals on a simple rocker like Mustache, Zodiac and Tonto, you would’ve had a nice   set of rock radio hits. I personally like these instrumentals and they would’ve been very contemporary if not progressive in 1999-2001. 

Despite my earlier words, I think they did a nice job of cleaning up Hardschool... the structure of the song is much more fluid and the producers did well to clean up Axl's shoddy/out-of-time-and-breath vocals in the verses. Some knocks: the opening bell is cheesy, and I miss Freese's always-excellent drumming, but a nice re-record IMO. Didn't think I'd like it, but they pulled it off. I hope casual fans can hear this, I do think they'll like it a lot.

Got to say, this is all a lot of fun... it's been a rough 20+ months for most folks and new Guns songs are always a welcome treat in a world of utter shi*t. Cheers, fellow die hards!

Would anticipate they release their reworked version of Hardschool by the end of this tour, similar to Absurd/Silkworms. As with the current single, I would expect a few musical rearrangements, new guitars/bass, and... the same vocal tracks that were recorded 20+ years ago.

The song as it stands is a lot like most Chinese Democracy songs, lots of interesting parts, but can't maintain momentum and seems incomplete. It won't work as a single, maybe a nice track though if they could somehow finish it and get Axl to work on the vocals... my gripes:

- The vocals on the verses really don't work: Axl's melody on the verses are out of timing, tune and power... you can hear him trying to fit in to the song with little, out-of-breath jabs, not "owning" the verse (which, vocals aside, I really like). Axl seemed to regain his voice around 2006, so here's to optimism that he was able to rewrite his vox/melodies on the verses, but not getting my hopes up.

- The song loses focus after the second verse, and suffers from the same cut/paste/paint-over songwriting that afflicted some CD tracks (thinking of IRS, Atlas, Catcher etc). There just isn't enough vocal work - it feels incomplete here - nor any more hooks that give the song depth, making a pretty thin and stretched set of ideas.

I go back to the song... the long intro is a nice jam but unnecessary, love the verse instrumental but the vocals are cringeworthy, Axl absolutely nails the brief chorus... and that's about it... after the nice cowbell/solo throwback, I usually skip the track. There's a full song here, but even with a vocal redo, Slash/Duff on the amps, maybe some sort of hooky bridge and better editing... it'd be a B-side at best.

Do I still want to hear the updated version? Absolutely. Such is this weird GNR fandom... 

Have got to love that - after all this history - no additional lyrics were ever recorded, or re-recorded, from the Village Sessions. All of these vox are from the earliest version of Silkworms, just rearranged a bit, and repeated.

Symptomatic of the CD sessions in general, lots of work on the music, but very little work on the vocals. Even now, 20+ years later, he never could lay down an extra verse on this track. Probably wouldn't make much a difference on this particular tack, but the lack of new vox is quite foreboding re: any future release, if any.... 

I'm still skeptical because of a lack of news, but have done some digging 'round the net.

Rumor floating on HTGTH re: Best Buy contract says GNR can pull out two weeks before the release date. Take with a grain of salt, this was coming from a lower-level employee (and then posted by someone on the internet).

Re: SKU's. I'll throw in a theory...obviously we've got three seperate covers, major labels tend to do that with most "tentpole" releases. The second set of three, priced higher, is likely a "deluxe edition." For example, one of my favorite rappers, Atmosphere, released his last album with a regular version, and a deluxe set with some storybook & a DVD for about $20 (I went for the regular disc, however). Thus, the $20 version could have extra artwork, writing, and possibly (hopefully) B-sides or alternate versions of songs.

If that's the case, I'd plunk down the extra bucks.

Guess some announcement is coming "after Thursday" according to cold-reader-extraordinaire Mysteron...

Great album. Really combines some of their best stuff pre-Black Album with a little bit of St. Anger, so its not entirely retro in that sense.

Gotta hand it to Rick Rubin in the songwriting department, but the production could be better. Rick favors a stripped-down sound, and increasingly, his records have sounded less and less produced (it all started with SOAD's Hypnotize/Mesmerize). I would have liked to heard the guitars amped up, drums put down in the mix, and Hetfield's voice less compressed and more powerful (a little overdubbing/reverb, a big Rubin-no-no). Other than that, this is some good stuff...especially love that "Bow Down/Sell Your Soul to Me" line juxtaposed with the VERY metal backing riff...find myself going back to that track.

Final note...I'm not jumping on the "St. Anger sucks" bandwagon that seems to be so popular in the media, whom five years ago, praised the album left and right. I liked the album when it was released, it was a raw, powerful return to the band's roots...sure, it was a tough listen, but considering what crappy rock was out in 2003, it was pretty damn good. However, I will agree that only about three tracks from this set have held up, which isn't saying much...but more than can be said for the Load/ReLoad butt-rockers. All in all, their previous album was a good experiment and a nice kick in the ass especially when rock (and myself) needed it. Welcome back Metallica!

You know, as pessimistic as I am about this whole thing, I'm really hoping to hear "Prostitute."

After following this project like a sad addiction for so long, this is one of the songs I've been looking forward to. From the articles I can remember, Axl Rose has been working on 'Prostitute' since about 1997, possibly '96. Producer 'Youth' - one whom I respect for his brilliant work on The Verve's album - came aboard about this time to perform some production work. While nothing really got going during his short stint behind the knobs, he states to this day that Prostitute is a track to look out for. Paul Buckmaster performed some orchestral arrangements on this track, and complemented it's mid-up tempo "biting rhythm." While his work might not be on the current version (as I never heard an orchestration difference between versions of TWAT), he has said to add some "ice" to the firey track. (Not to venture off track, but Buckmaster's description of 'Prostitute' matches the rhythm of 'Better,' sans orchestration). What's most interesting is that he noted their were no lyrics on 'Prostitute' circa fall 2002 - that's about 5 years of writer's block or pure laziness on Axl's part!

So, given the positive buzz, I'd really like to hear this song. Why not test it on an enthusiastic audience?

Wow, talk about odd.

I just do not understand this guy's public relations strategy. It's like compulsive deception - spreading misconstrued and minimal information in even unneccessary areas.

Again, I don't want to raise hell, but here's my perspective on this, take it as you will. From the select interviews I've read, Brain really doesn't like playing for GNR. He even hated recording for them - so much he couldn't keep his mouth shut. Sure, he's under GNR contract, but he's clearly opted out...kind of like Bonzi Wells and the Houston Rockets. Thus, he'll be required to keep his mouth shut (though he hasn't been the best at it) until his contract is up. Notice a trend how anything - ANYTHING - regarding hiccups in this band has nothing to do with the band, but medical or personal reasons...intestine virus, soar throat, etc. I feel strongly that the guy does not like playing with the band, did not like recording with them, and therefore can't be paid enough to spend time away from his newborn.

Why not just admit the guy's gone? Merck, do you seriously need Music PR 101? Stylistic differences is always a good one.

Interesting interview. The guy brings us some dirt & a different perspective on this tour - you gotta give him that.

Journalistically, it's crap. Pretty raw & ethically questionable. But we're not here to talk about that are we?

Axl's clothes tailored? That's not news. And frankly, who cares...besides Axl of course. He's getting old, he's clearly choosing not to focus on fitness & diet, he's paying the price. This shit happens - and like any person, especially an egotistical rock & roll frontman, they want to look their best on stage. So really, the EODM guy was just doing a little shit talking about Axl's little insecurities...big whoop.

Band infighting? Now this is interesting. Every band fights, but the particulars of this interview were intriguing. I'm sure Tommy is pretty sick of a lot of things - the "diva" antics, practicing the shit out of songs you never wrote, not being able to play the songs you DID write, having to lie to fans on a repeated basis, having to work hard for someone that doesn't, etc. etc. And firing your friend of 25 years? Seems to confirm the rumors of Axl's constant hiring/firing/rehiring antics...too bad to hear he's still doing this (Just my perspective - not trying to piss y'all off).

I'm sure the EODM weren't great. But try to take this information as what it is - info. All is not is as rosy as it seems, and with most things, it never is. Realize the clock is ticking, this album's got to be done, or it appears their may be some new hired Guns...

Most assuredly the album will sell itself, but promotions are necessary nonetheless, and I'd expect to see them when the album is ready to drop. The album has a considerable amount of buzz, but a large portion of potential buyers would be neglected without some mix of a traditional, mass promotion campaign.

The world of advertising is changing, with marketers continuing to take new routes to communicate their product. Creative internet campaigns, tie-ins & placements continue to increase in popularity, but traditional media is not dead, and continues to control a majority of most ad campaigns. The release of a major record is no different. Record labels are increasingly taking new avenues to promote their bands - but these still involve mainstream media. Chinese Democracy will not simply "appear" on shelves - the record company, management, and the band has invested too much to take such a risk.

Currently, some things you see in your everyday life are in fact paid promotions. For example, most news articles are the product of public relations managers. Take Rolling Stone - upcoming/current music happenings are the work of public relations personel - Rolling Stone writers don't perform all the story-finding. Recently, General Motors admitted to being behind the release of a viral video that appeared to be an illegal recording of a yet-to-be-seen Buick.

Being in PR, I know the work of my peers when I see it. I'm standing by my statement that the articles in Rolling Stone, "leaks" from GNR's official site, and even the Harley Davidson ad - were PR stunts to increase ticket sales for GNR's tour. Buzz being the key word here. Marketers often target the "influential" consumer - such as the music aficionado or the die-hard GNR fan who tells their peers that an album is eminent. The album may not be far off, but these were clearly creative promotions for the tour.

Realistically, the album has to be released next year. Theoretically, the record company won't have to communicate its release as much as most records due to the enormous amount of buzz. However, as I stated before, buzz-only promotions limit your market reach, and they certaintly want the first week of sales to be fantastic.

I happen to like both bands, but GNR remains a favorite. It's all a matter of personal taste.

However, if you want to break it down in a "versus" kinda way, here's what each band had going for them:

The Crue had a longer period of success, partied harder, and wrote some songs that hold up well today, especially "Kickstart My Heart." However, while each album had its hits, all of them suffered from filler - especially Theatre of Pain & Girls. Even Nikki Sixx admits this. Also, their songwriting and guitar work pales in comparison to Guns - structuring was elementary at times and riffs rarely changed. But I still love their hits.

Guns had only two albums (don't count Spaghetti) and about 5 years of solid fame. However, Appetite for Destruction is arguably one of the best rock albums ever made. Musicianship was superior - every player had different influences that magically synergized into a textured, gritty sound that no one has since captured. UYI suffered from a collapse in this chemistry, but still produced some solid songs.

Both bands are different, and I like what each has to offer. I just find myself listening to Guns more often. And for christsakes Axl, will you finally fight Vince Neil?

Could not be "Prostitute" because that track still did not have vocals circa 2002. This track dates to the 1999 version of Chinese Democracy, as part of a leak that allowed us to hear previous versions of IRS and There Was a Time.

It's hard to judge anything on 16-seconds (which is why you here such crap on the radio these days - different story) but I think the instrumentation on this song is promising: I like the riff, it's very Think About You, Crash Diet, with a modern sound. Axl's vocals, however, sound shot, and don't really jive well with the song. Still a promising song nonetheless.

Improved a major nagging issue with the song: being the drumline in the verses.

Taking out that extra snare hit helps the "groove" of the song. Axl's vocals sound better than in version's I've heard...hopefully his studio voice sounds close to this (think Better) rather than the shot vocals from TWAT, CITR, IRS et al.

Still does not address the poor structure of the song, however. He's clearly trying to build a post-Nirvana 3:30 minute rock single in terms of intro/verse/bridge/chorus/post-chorus etc. Unfortunately, he's missing some key elements of the song that make it sound rushed & dull, and the hook is too weak. So, the song comes off as "trying" to be catchy.

Based on its strong riff & final verse, the song is acceptable as a B-Side, but definitely not worthy of inclusion of a 10-year, $13 million album.

It's a keyboard/drums show!!!

Didn't even hear the guitar on the solo of Sweet Child...

As I listen to these older versions I can't help but shake my head...why wasn't this released back in 2000? Why was it re-recorded?

The mix, musicianship, and chemistry are much better than that of the newer TWAT and RTB-produced IRS.

IRS is a track I've never been a big fan of...dull guitar work (with great production though), cheesy-sounding drum loops, overtly basic drumming, and a major disconnect between Axl and the song. However, this older version has great creativity, good interplay between all the sounds (ie nothing too weird), and a better mix between instruments. Axl's vocal track is exactly the same, but it seems to go better with this production...his vocals still sound like a raw, one-take demo though, just like the newer one. All in all, a much better track...unfortunately it has the production values of the time, so a few instruments need to be amped up or toned down, less reverb on the vocals etc. I also thought that Bucketheads solo, while technically better, didn't fit the song, and while this solo isn't as fancy, it fits the song alot better. Lastly, since I have a gut feeling Axl is not going to release the CD this year (hate to fan the flames), I think he should seriously take the 1999 track's instrumentation, re-mix it for 2006 production values, add some vocal tricks, and the result will be the best possible product. Its a far more inventive, groovy, and warmer track than its detached, raw suitor.

TWAT has a MUCH better mix, something the "newer" version suffers from. The sound of the drum loops is a lot more fitting to the song. Additionally, the deletion of the guitar part on the first verse adds to the "cleanliness" of the song...I always thought that that 1st verse guitar track was either mixed too high and its timing didn't jive well with the rest of the track. Again, this better mix really makes the track, although I do miss some of Buckethead's guitar parts at the end.

In conclusion...it's really unfortunate that these tracks were not released so long ago, as I feel that (especially IRS) are of much better quality musically. If the new CD is ever released, I don't think these tracks will make it, as the 1999 production values kinda stand on this track. However, BRING BACK FREESE!

More signs are pointing to this as the real deal...no lyrics on Google (which still means it could be an underground band)...a few more listens have revealed this is the same voice on "Catcher," so I'm convinced.../Unfortunately it seems this is the same clip leaked to some DJ, who never received the full song to begin with.

However, knowing this song is out there, it's only a matter of time before the whole song is available for all to judge.

Nice to hear a more aggressive up-tempo track. Not sure if its Axl, if so, it'd fall in line with the production of "Catcher;" ie kinda shot vocals, more reverb, etc. This 15-second clip can't give you a real clue about the song, though. Can't wait to hear the rest!

The guitar parts on Better and IRS are very, very simple power chords. Consider the verse in Better uses only about three power chords. Robin Finck's breaks on IRS and There Was a Time are very easy to play...I suggest you look for tabs...kind of like a Frusciante-style of simplicity that makes the most of each note. You won't get the same sound b/c the guitars used were most likely very expensive (unless you have a $4,000 Paul Reed Smith lying around), but a good pull on the acoustic will help you achieve results to a lesser extent. However, I must say that Buckethead's solos and sections are difficult to play...he's one fast son-of-a-b!

I like Madagascar...though I think the newer live versions are too overwrought with orchestra instrumentation. Because of this, I feel that the RIR3 version has a little more bite than the late version.

One thing I never liked is the keyboarding...yes I know this is the main part of the song...but I just found the sound of the keyboard as kind of cheesy, somewhat cheap. The notes/stucture of the keyboard riff is catchy, it's just the sound that Dizzy's playing...almost too keyboardy. And that's my opinion from first listen til today.

But overall, I like the song, nice little looped jungle drumbeat in the background, haunting Axl lyrics, good guitar break over the samples. This track should be easier to mix than T.W.A.T. because there's less going on here...but I have a feeling that the studio version may have to strong of an orchestra mix. I just think the orchestra should be light, ala RIR3, to help as filler. It sounds overly cheesy and somewhat unmoving as a key part of the song's sound (ala 2002 tours). Keep the edge, Axl!

Hmm...I can see why some don't like it. After two good listens, I like it. Nothing fantastic, but nothing bad either. Definitely demo quality...similar to There Was a Time in quality. Axl's voice sounds shot, though. Really, really shot.

If ever laid down for final recording/mixing etc, they need to emphasize the push/pull of this track as well as certain layers at certain parts. The drumming is too looped, it holds tempo when the rest of the song switches up/down...and the drumming is overdone (ie too fast) at the start. In mixing, this push/pull can be alleviated by timing changes and layer emphasization. However, Axl definitely needs to sing this song on a good day, and some additional drumming is necessary to help with the push/pull factor so lacking in this song. Right now, the track just kinda keeps on going and doesn't allow itself to stop and pull the listeners in to hear the hooks (which are aplenty).

Great idea of channelling Beatles-style hooks...just a little more in the execution/vocal power/push-pull dept. (ie not much work if you actually get in the studio), and you've got a great album track.

Here's a quick edit I made, with a little more flow. Sorry, Windows Media Only:

(link removed)

Timing problems I found with the song include the Disturbed-like riff, looped 4x before Axl's vocals, so I chopped that in half. And after Axl's vocals over the Disturbed riff ended, I deleted the unecessary and nasty guitar parts, leaving the bridge to the chorus. I then copied and pasted the first chorus into the last chorus to give the song some closing. Let me know if you'd like a copy!

GNR & Motley Crue? Only if Axl and Vince Neil all-out fight on stage...