A_Sense_Of_Rage

What can be gained from leaking a subpar version of your product into the market? Well, you get to create a negative impression of the product in the minds of potential customers, who will already have decided that your new product isn't interesting to them before it even goes on sale.

I would respectfully ask: is it really negative? The interest generated has drawn attention to it, whether you like it or not it has created an awareness. I feel that many people who criticize Axl and Guns N Roses are still fans of the music and still buy the records, otherwise they wouldn't take the time to notice or care.

There are people who believe that everything that happens in releation to Axl Rose is part of some grand plan and that Axl is the master of how to manipulate the media. If this was true then he would have a much better public profile. At the moment, he's portrayed as a hermit and a weirdo and the demos have been getting slammed on radio stations for days. Hardly a good start to promoting the new album.

His public profile is the way it is because he doesn't play ball with the media. As far as manipulation, he has managed, actively or otherwise, to maintain a large community of fans despite not releasing hardly any new material and making few public appearances or statements in over a decade. Perhaps that mitigates to some degree a need to maintain himself in the public eye to promote his work.

The idea that Axl wants to leak demos so that we'll know the songs when we see the band live is bizarre. If CD is released the day a world tour starts, then for most fans they will be listening to the album for weeks or months before GN'R does a gig anywhere near them. So really what you're saying is that he leaked the songs for the fans in the cities on the first couple of dates on the tour. Still think it's a realistic prospect?

Yet CD may not be released the day a world tour starts, so its as realistic as that. The attention this album and its songs have received so far without any "official" publicity doesn't need to be validated by Merck or anyone else to make it real. We'll see just how well received the album is when it comes out, and along with a tour, if one is planned. Yet I would be willing to guess that this is not the last time we will see such a strategy as this if indeed things were planned out this way from the beginning of the leaks. People may not want to lend credibility to Axl or Chinese Democracy before they have it in their hands and see it validated on MTV and elsewhere. People may not want to believe things will work out this way without jumping on the media bandwagon like everyone else so its a predictable course of events leading up to release and tour, etc. None of that will matter, however, if we go out and buy the album and see him on tour. That will be the yardstick from which to judge, not the methods.

WHEB-FM, a Clear Channel-owned station out of Portsmouth, NH, was playing the demo version of "I.R.S." shortly after 2:00 this afternoon. Earlier this week, both WBCN and WAAF, both Boston based stations, told listeners that the cease-and-desist letters they received forbid them to continue playing both "I.R.S." and "There Was A Time". I'm curious to know if anyone else has heard either demo still being played on FM radio despite the alleged cease-and-desist warnings. Perhaps it has something to do with Clear Channel, whom I personally despise but were the sponsors of GN'R's 2002 tour? Also should mention that after the song ended, the DJ said that Chinese Democracy is set for a March release, though she could not provide a specific date.

100.3?

With any other band or artist, I would tend to think of the "leaks" as just that: a mistake, something that they didn't want or didn't intend to happen. But with Axl Rose, I could beleive that he may actually be trying to do more than release an album. He may just be the evolution of music distribution as we know it today.

Now I don't expect you all to beleive this is what he's thinking, but I do beleive he could be capable of it. Just throw away the paradigm for a minute and think about this with an open mind. I'm not trying to pass this off as official, this is just my thoughts.

Think about it. Right now, the music comes from the artist and passes through how many middlemen to get to you and I as fans (record company, label, promotion and advertising, manufacturer of medium, shipping to distribution warehouses and stores, etc.) All those middlemen have to make money all along the way, which is why CDs cost what they do when we finally buy them. But what if you cut all that out, and put out music on the internet directly to people?

Now I'm not saying that these "demo leaks" constitute the final product and final delivery method of Chinese Democracy. But it's something to think about if an artist could find a way to get high quality music directly to fans over the internet: no compact discs to manufacture, no stores that have to be stocked with thousands of copies, no big promotion campaigns on TV or official "singles" released as videos on MTV or tracks sent to a radio station for "official" airplay. Think how happy Axl would be if he could release his material like that and how happy we would be to get it, both having spared the additional expense and hoopla we don't care about anyway.

Now internet distribution is nothing new. But having a loyal community that shops from an internet site is rare. Michael Dell said that an internet based industry needs three things: content, commerce, and community. For an artist like Axl, he has the content. Commerce would be getting into the hands of the fans: ie delivery method. With internet, Axl could throw away his record company and fire his marketing agents and managers because he wouldn't need them to strategise to release his content through normal mainstream media channels. The last thing, and the most important thing, is community. It just so happens we have a community here. We're a loyal fanbase, and we all stick around here because we're all interested in the same thing: Guns N Roses.

Imagine the possibilities of that type of model, and what it could do. It's happening already in other industries, and many companies are realizing the advantages and running to take part in order to stay competative. In the music industry, you could cut out all the bullshit and deliver from the studio right to the fans. Realize that the reason it doesn't work most times is because not many people are willing to change their thinking and go to a website rather than the store; there is no online community. Does anyone else see where this could lead? The capabilities are there, the community is here at MYGNR.

What Axl will do, no one but him knows. This is just my speculation, nothing more, but it does present an opportunity. What remains to be seen is whether or not the right person sees it.

It's funny how some people feel threatened enough by all of this to lash out the way they do. As high of a regard as we have for GNR as fans, you'd think we'd want to acknowledge the desire of the artist to have their material available only in the form of the highest quality. You would also think that we would respect them enough to recognize their copyright on their work, and not attempt to circumvent it for our own selfish reasons.

It's also funny that the responses to a simple question get twisted around and viewed as opportunities to challenge someone's perceived authority, as if in response to some imagined abuse of it towards them. No matter what people may be "tagged" as on here, there's no question that their loyalty as fans and their love of music has contributed much to the results which we too often take for granted around here. It's doubly ironic that the same fans whom were given an opportunity the likes of which would exist few other places would then turn around and disregard those who would protect a place like this from being challenged and threatened by people who have real bite to match their bark.

And no I haven't heard any radio stations around here play the track.

Yes.

I think it produced the reaction it was designed to give, even though they were both merely old demos.

Rumours are great advertising, and they're free to the promoters...

There is an element in nugnr that wasn't in the "old GN'R" : the gay factor. Nugnr has no balls.

I guess it takes one to know one....

Not everything Axl says is a loaded comment. At the mere mention of Slash's name and Izzy's name the "reunion" talk spirals up out of control.

You people want to send your hopes up out of sight, and then you blame Axl when they come crashing back down upon you. Well, you deserve it. If you're not going to take the responsibility to listen, then you're never going to be able to blame anyone but yourselves for feeling cheated or deflated when your mile high expectations don't come to pass.

Let's see how big this balloon will get before it pops

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowbizNews.asp?Code=...oses_to_reunite

Is this Ferrari dude really as dumb as it appears? Is it worth even acknowledging his stupidity?

He has the IQ of a mud fence, but he drew his avatar himself! You have to acknowledge that kind of talent.

He has no reasons to say nice words about Slash unless he wants a reconciliation.

Don't forget that Axl needs a lead guitar : Finck or Fortus are not competent for the job. If they were, Axl wouldn't have cancelled the Lisbon concert when Bucket left.

You know what, I think you're right! That has to be it! Because quite clearly Axl cancelled the Lisbon concert because he wanted Slash back. So a few years later, he remembered that and mentioned Slash's name in an interview in hopes that Slash would hear the call and come back! It's been a conspiracy all along, Ferrari, and you broke the code!

Now we need to investigate the behaivor of Scott Weiland, wearing that police cap on his head during shows and singing Guns N Roses cover tunes I think this may be because he is secretly sending a message to Axl to come up and replace him to be with his old bandmates, eh? Maybe the reason for the heroin problem is so he can eliminate himself from the picture so Axl can step in and call the guys back to GNR.

But what about Izzy? I think having both Finck and Fortus in the band is a secret message to Izzy because he's saying he has to have two rhythm guitars instead of one, and that Izzy needs to come back to releive him of this payroll debacle. Remember, neither of these guys are capable of playing lead under any circumstances, so it follows explicitly that this can be the only conclusion.

Your understanding of these issues is so extensive and your abilities to construct logical conclusions is so practised and refined that I beleive you should manage this band. Merck, bless his heart, hasn't the foresight and experiance to compare to your inherent insight and decisiveness. You could move in, fire everybody, get Slash, Izzy, Duff, and even Steven back and send them on an extensive 72 month world tour covering every continent including Antarctica.

They would perform the first concert ever on the moon, and plant a flag there in your honor with your avatar on it.

why not use a forum such as this to get his direct, unfiltered message out to fans from time to time?

We apparently couldn't read what he said in the article correctly, so why would we be able to read his posts correctly? Changing the venue doesn't change the fact that the same majority of people wont listen and will read what they want between the lines. We've already proven that with all the new reunion threads started this week.

I'd like to talk to him too, but it's a two way street. What reason would he have to beleive that he'd be treated any different than the rest of the posters here as a part of the general atmosphere of communication breakdown? We're a lot harder on each other because we don't have any vested interest in the subject beyond our own opinions.

If we take the attitude that it's his price to pay for being in the middle of it all, he'd spend all his time refuting all of our pretentious expectations and defending himself against an ignorant mob mentality.

He's going to do his own thing no matter how much it may offend our ideals and no matter what else we think we're entitled to. He may not release the album until the year 3044 and it's his perogitive, no matter what our collective desires may add up to be or how much we think that counts for something.

He has to live his life in check, and we think we're the ones who have it bad. Get some fucking perspective people.

Did I miss the part in that where Axl said that the old band would reunite? Did I also spot where they misquoted him to say that Chinese Democracy will be released this year?

HEY ...YOU HAVE TO BE OPTIMIST....YOU'LL SEE THAT WHAT WE BEEN WAITING FOR SO LONG ....WILL BE A REALITY THIS FREAKING YEAR!!!! BE COOL!!!GUNNER rock1

I'm all for optimism. But I also know how to read. YOU be cool. It'll come out, just relax.

Heres something fun to do today

Type in search box- reunion

Yes, try it sometime kids! Someone will be up late combining all this shit into one thread so it can fizzle out and die like the last hundred thousand reunion threads.

On topic: Never say never, but JALP had it right about Axl's words this time.

And you people wonder why he never says anything? BECAUSE NOBODY FUCKING LISTENS ANYWAY.

What about "Seven", "Leave Me Alone", "General", "Thyme" and "Eulogy of a Broken Heart"?

~M

ah ha I knew you couldn't resist. You beat me to it.

Long time no see. How you been?

On topic, you guys forgot the song where the tracklist has been officially announced and we know what the hell we're talking about.

Did I miss the part in that where Axl said that the old band would reunite? Did I also spot where they misquoted him to say that Chinese Democracy will be released this year?

The actual reason is because Vanilla Ice was originally a dancer, not a rapper. Back when MC Hammer and C&C Music Factory were all the rage, making sales from videos performing a dance act while rapping or singing, Vanilla Ice became huge along with all that. When this fad ended, Vanilla Ice found himself with an act no longer in demand, as gangsta rap took over and the whole scene changed.

Beastie Boys were rappers, through and through, not dancers. Their style appealed to all because it was never attached to any particular craze; they weren't dancers or gangsta rappers or r&b sensations. They're still around because they know how to rhyme scheme better than most in the business, and they didn't try to be anything other than just a bunch of guys who could tear it up on the mic.

Respect to the Lawrence for once again standing up for himself and what he beleives in.

I can relate with your frustration in the past, but that's understandable in light of all the disappointments in the past. It's also understandable in light of the fact you may not always feel like having to make a bulletproof argument just to get your point across. And then arguing with people who probably would agree with you if they read what you posted, but would rather argue their opinions as having more merit by discrediting someone else. Just remember: criticism is a losers excuse for a winning attitudte. Lawrence is a winner, a believer, and a fan we're all glad to know and talk with.

You did come out and tell the truth about how you really feel. You've got balls of steel to do that on a board like this, announcement or no annoucement. And it just proves once again, like I said before, you are an individual with integrity.

Steven Tyler

my god his voice is annoying especially his pathedic attempt at screams and from what i saw of his live performance i was just...bored

Referring to live performances recently? Give him some credit, he's been singing since the late 60s. Back when he was younger (ie not in his 50s) he had an incredible range and power, even when he was strung out and drunk off his ass.

Go listen to Live Bootleg and reiterate that statement. If you ARE indeed referring to all his performances, then I guess you're entitled to your opinion...

Ferrari > JohnUlmer

Ferrari > A_Sense_Of_Rage

These are the facts and they are indisputable.

Greater as far as what? Ignorance? Yes, I agree with you on that. Tear me to shreds if you wish: been there, done that. I suck as a person. Know that. But do not discredit John Ulmer. He's a good guy. Place your argument to the contrary here and I will argue you into the fucking ground. I promise you that. Go ahead, PM me or respond with specifics. Let us DISCUSS. I LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

I encourage you to continue in doing this, as it may preclude you from making additional posts.

in the 80's:Metallica

since the 90's: Megadeth

Agreed.

You do hopefully realize that limiting the search to five letters and above eliminates needless hits on sentence articles and other too-common words that would bring back such a flood of results that it would be worthless to you. Not to mention how much processing it takes to compile such. I know you may want to search for "axl playing guitar" but you could just as easily search for "playing guitar" and look through the results for Axl's name.

I don't think it's set up to use boolean operators to do "if then else" or "either or" searches. Not to mention that takes some pretty serious programming algorithms to make that work effectively. Companies like Google and Yahoo spend millions on that. Eric's a pretty cool guy but that's a little much to ask for a free forum he runs in his spare time.

Seems like some of it was paraphrased; I wonder what he really said, and what questions were asked.

Either way, it's good to hear from him.

I have faith in Axl, not expectations.

The difference is that I can be a fan without feeling like I'm entitled to something.

Pink Floyd - Seamus

Ah come on Seamus is fun! Gotta love songs about dogs.

Aaahh, I can't stand that barking....

Maybe it's because I'm a C personality and it just gets to me too much....