kevinb

6 hours ago, metallex78 said:

Lol, you’re such a big fan that you can’t spell Myles properly... lol

Thanks for the write up. How were the new songs? Better than Mind Your Manners and Driving Rain?

Yeah, I was tired but wanted to share a review of the show.  Excuse the typ-o...  

24 minutes ago, Nasty Bronchitis said:

Thanks for clearing it up.

Now i get why the 4 dates since it was their homecoming shows. My guess is someone from the crew, close to the band did an amateur filming on the 30th.

I hear ya Kevin, feel the same everytime i see the bootleg for the 1st night of the L.A Coliseum shows and watch the performance being projected on the big screen onstage.

I almost jumped from the stadium balcony when Axl said he was quitting GNR at the Stones show 89.  He said there is "no such thing as Paradise City, ever, anywhere" and I started choking up.  The bootleg for the 4th show at Perkins Palace 87 (which has since been torn down) is a great soundboard recording and is so great it gives me the chills.  It's a very emotionally driven show and the guitar is amazing.  I actually think it's better than the Marquee shows because the soundboard is so clear from Perkins Palace, you feel like you're right there watching them.  By the way, I remember people pouring beer over my head from the balcony, that concert was wild and I was like 13 or 14 years old!  My first concert- 12/26/87.  Man, how I love GNR.  Should have gotten a GNR tattoo years ago... my best experience was Troubadour show 2016, front center.  I  almost had a heart attack when Axl and Slash walked up onto stage in that tiny club!   Wish we had more of that on video too!

1 hour ago, Nasty Bronchitis said:

Marquee 1987:

• Audio: Soundboard recording exists, fact. 3 nights? Tracks from 28th were included on japanese ep.
• Video: According to Slash it exists. Not Pro filming apparently.

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/guns-n-roses-under-a-marquee-moon/

Thx to Scott Rheinberger for posting this on YT

Perkins Palace Pasadena 1987 ( Fred Coury on drums):

Listening to the december 30th audio bootleg Axl mentions before Patience he wants Steven onstage. Axl wants that moment on film, yep someone is filming. 

Apparently, (just speculating from pics and audio) what he wants to preserve is filming Adler playing percussion and doing backup vocals for the Patience outro. Out of tune btw 

Side note➡ Previous night (28th) Axl says before Patience Steven's gonna try....inaudible... for the first time.

@kevinb are you the same Kevin from GnRCentral?

If so didn't you attend one of the Perkins gigs? Could you confirm my presumption about Adler.

Yes, it's me Kevin from GNR Central.  I was at the first Perkins Palace show in 1987 but I can't remember Adler much.  I think he actually played one-handed on drums for Patience only at all 4 shows.  It was their LA homecoming shows and first LA shows since Appetite was released as I recall.  I pray it was recorded on video but I dont remember any cameras there.  I was also at all 4 Stones shows with GNR in 1989 and I'm very sad those shows were not professionally recorded...

With all the recent discussion and focus around the new Chinese Democracy-era leaks, I thought it would be useful (and fun) to compile a list of known uncirculated Appetite-era audio/video that is either confirmed or speculated to exist- but never heard/seen.  I think most of us would agree that the true "gems" of audio collecting are the unheard, early sessions/demos/rehearsals, etc. from Guns N' Roses from the 1985-1990 era, as well as the "early" Illusions stuff.

So, we all speculate that there may be unreleased and uncirculated demos around, but what actually exists?  Is it all lost, or do uncirculated, buried gems still exist?

Here's a bit of what I know, and I hope others can share:

1 Audio and video footage of concerts from Marc Canter remain unreleased, including a few audio soundboard recordings such as Roxy 86 and Whisky 8/23/86.  These concerts were confirmed by Marc Canter to have been recorded "off the board", ie, soundboard A/A+ audio, but they have not surfaced (note also that the 8/23/86 concert was the FIRST live performance of Sweet Child, not the Music Machine footage that has already surfaced).  The Whisky show audio has never been released or circulated.

2. Mates Rehearsal "extended" tapes, rehearsal with original 5 minus Axl (instrumental) from 1989: a portion is available online but Bad Apples, Coma, Ain't Goin Down, and a number of "new working songs" are confirmed to have been recorded but never circulated, ie, never heard.

3. GNR rehearsal tapes.  In over 30 years of collecting GNR audio, I have never heard of any ACTUAL REHEARSALS being recorded and circulated in any capacity.  We have demos, outtakes, mixes, etc, but NO ACTUAL REHEARSAL SESSIONS...  Imagine having a GNR rehearsal tape from 1985 or 86, anybody care to speculate?

4. Hollywood Rose/Rose live audio.  We know that Holllywood Rose/Rose played between 15-25 shows between 1983 and the end of 1984, but were any of these live concerts recorded?  Marc Canter did not record these shows.  There were songs played live by Hollywood Rose that were NOT recorded on the demo released by Chris Weber.  These Hollywood Rose songs that have never been heard include Beat on my Head, Rock N' Roll Rose, International Boys, Hollywood Girls, That Something, Cold Hard Cash (some audio of the last 2 songs have surfaced but not the others).  Anybody care to speculate as to whether Hollywood Rose live concert audio from 83/84 actually exists?

5. Video footage of GNR in 1989 at the Cathouse and Rip Anniversary Party all recorded but never released... only portions online leaked.

What else do you guys know about or speculate may exist from Vintage GNR and the Appetite lineup that hasn't yet leaked to the public?  

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:21 AM, Sosso said:

I think that they had no bass player during the third rehearsal. Raz said that Ole was fired after the second rehearsal. Duff's first rehearsal with the band was during their fourth. 

Does anyone have a copy of any of the old GNR rehearsals from 1985?  Do we think these even exist?  And does anybody have ANY TRUE gnr rehearsal tapes at all?

On 5/10/2018 at 5:22 PM, nikki9 said:

Joining the dots between the infos available on gnrontour.com, setlist.fm, Marc Canter's bible and the recently surfaced Raz Cue's interviews and infos, we gather the following on the early history of the band:

 

January to june 1984 - Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, drummer Johnny Kreiss (and/or Johnny Krieff?) and bassist Rick Holland (and/or Rick Mars?) plays shows as Rose, later changed in Hollywood Rose (As Axl liked this monicker better) and they play the following dates (I'm not sure if the lineups here are always correct or not...fill in if you know more):

• 01.03.84 - The Orphanage, North Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  From what we know, this is Axl Rose's first show in L.A.
  
  01.17.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  flyer
  
  02.12.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  
  02.23.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  
  03.16.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass]. Although the flyer says "Hollywood Rose" - this band is still "Rose" - Axl preferred the name "Hollywood Rose" and had these flyers printed.
  flyer
  
  04.01.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
  flyer #1
  flyer #2
  
  04.20.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

 

early june 1984 to august 1984 - Izzy and Chris Weber leave Hollywood Rose (Izzy to join London I guess!?!?), and Slash and Steven joins the band and they play their first show together on june 16 at Madame Wong's West (on this date the lineup was completed by bassist Steve Darrow - unsure if he played any show before with HR or this was his first one too!). (Izzy leaves almost a week before Slash and Steven joins, according to Marc Canter's book, and one of the disagreement between izzy and Axl was over the riff of a song Izzy wrote called Cold Hard Cash, which Izzy wanted to discard but Axl liked and wanted to keep)

with this lineup they play the following dates over summer '84:

 

• 06.16.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  flyer
  notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.
  
  06.28.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.
  
  07.10.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  setlist: Shadow Of Your Love, Everything's OK, Reckless, Anything Goes, Rock N Roll Survivor (a song Slash wrote for Roadcrew and Axl added lyrics to), Rock N Roll Rose (a song Axl wrote after his first gig in LA), Back Off Bitch, Cold Hard Cash, Nice Boys, Hair Of The Dog
  notes: I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded the audio of this show, not sure if video too!
  flyer
  
  08.29.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This was pre-GN'R.
  flyer
  
  08.31.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: This was pre-GN'R.
  flyer
  
   

 

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

• oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

  setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

  notes: is this the first L.A. Guns show??? If so, Axl doesn not join L.A. Guns, but is indeed the original L.A. Guns singer!

  Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

• oct 13, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

  audio/video recording: i dont know for sure, but my sixth sense (and the pictures on his book) tells me Marc Canter recorded this on video!

• nov 27, 1984 @ the troubadour

• dec 1, 1984 - radio city

• dec 22, 1984 - radio city

• dec 31, 1984 - troubadour

• jan 25, 1985 - radio city

• feb 8, 1985 - country club

   

Now, we know for sure Axl played the two shows in october and then left, according to Marc Canter's book. Recordings of these two shows should exist and in the hands of Marc Canter. The rest of the shows, I guess Mike Jagosz took Axl's place, after the infamous Axl/Raz fights over something that either happened at the Rainbow or something. Around this time, the idea of Guns N' Roses is discussed between Axl and Tracii. This confirms that it was not a disagreement between axl and tracii to end this partenership in L.A. Guns (otherwise they wouldnt have formed guns n roses together just a couple of months later). If someone can fill in, or confirm this infos, please join in!

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

• 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Now, we've seen that in january and february of 1985, L.A. Guns were still playing shows in Hollywood, so Tracii and his bands were "active".

In the Raz Cue's interview video, at 1:59 mark, we see the flyer for a - so far - unknown gig that Hollywood Rose supposedly played on thursday march 7^th 1985, at the Dancing Waters in San Pedro, CA, advertised on the flyer as "the band that refuses to die". This show I think its crucial in what will then become the first GNR line up. I guess this is the show that is listed in Marc Canter's book (but without a date). According to Marc Canter's book, Izzy, that had just left London and was looking for a band, booked this show and put up this line up comprising of various member of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns. This show also marked the premiere of Don't Cry.

 

• 03.07.85 - San Pedro, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: Hollywood Rose last gig, featuring Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner, Steve Darrow. It was the premiere of the song Don't Cry, written by Axl and Izzy

 

Very soon after this gig, something happened and L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose finally merge in the first line up of Guns N' Roses, with Axl and Izzy (from Hollywood Rose), Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner (from L.A. Guns – although, as we've seen above, Rob already played a gig with HR).

Their first gig is scheduled for march 26^th at the troubadour (we learn from their very first interview, done on the night between march 21^st and march 22 on KPFK in Hollywood, that this show was booked as a L.A.Guns show and then changed to a Guns N' Roses one). Ole Beich is advertised on the flyer for the march 26th show but actually he will never play live with the band as, being ready to record a rehearsal to air during the aforementioned interview, the band couldnt get hold of Ole, and Izzy decided to call a neighbor of his called Duff – who, by the way, had already crossed path with Slash and Steven a couple years before in RoadCrew). So this first interview was recorded just hours after the band recorded early versions of the songs "Think About You", "Don't Cry", "Anything Goes" (apparently Heartbreak Hotel was recorded too) at Willie Basse's studio. This recording exists and in the hands of Raz Cue.

With this original line up they played the following dates:

 

• 03.26.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: first gig billed as Guns N'Roses
  flyer
  
  04.11.85 - Radio City, Anaheim, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes:
  flyer
  
  04.24.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes:
  flyer
  
  04.25.85 - Dancing Waters Club, San Pedro, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes:
  
  04.27.85 - Timbers Club, Glendora, CA
  audio/video recording?: no
  notes: apparently there was an argument over a certain Michelle Young (of My Michelle's fame) not being put on a guest list by Tracii. That drove Axl mad at him!

  
  05.11.85 – Radio City, Anaheim, CA

  05.12.85 - Joshua's Parlour, CA

 

Apparently Axl had issues with Tracii and wanted to fire him after the timbers clubs show, but waited cause they had two more shows booked, but then he fired him right after the Joshua's Parlour show in may! Rob Gardner, being loyal to his friend and bandmate Tracii, left the group soon after! At this point Axl already knew he wanted to get Slash in the band, but he was playing with Black Sheep, a somehow more established metal band on their way to getting signed. Things get confusing now, as according to Marc Canter's book, Axl, Izzy and Steven went to see Black Sheep at the Country Club on may 31^st 1985, trying to convinve Slash to join GNR. That would mean Steven joined the band before Slash, although any other accounts suggests either the opposite or that they joined together!

Anyway all lead to this:

 

• 06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
  audio/video recording?: no

  setlist: Reckless, Shadow of your love, jumpin jack flash, think about you, move to the city, dont cry, nice boys, back off bitch, anything goes, heartbreak hotel
  notes: This is the first Guns N' Roses gig that included Slash & Steven. They joined the band on this date. Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are in the flyer for this show! Marc Canter should have audio recordings of this historical first show!
  flyer

You've done a great job here.   I interviewed Razcue with GNR Central and he gave lots of information.   It's interesting to note that Ole Beich played no live shows with the band.  And the last few shows in May 85 before Slash and Steven joined were actually in Orange County, California,  not LA!  Interesting factoids...

Just now, ludurigan said:

i really wanna hear this...

 

*MISSING* (drummer sessions February - June 1990, including Jussi Tegelman, Adam Maples, Martin Chambers) *MISSING* [DOES NOT CIRCULATE]

Do we know if this was recorded?  Seems like most sessions would have leaked by now after 25 years... I wonder if we have any proof of uncirculated sessions whose recordings have actually survived...

4 hours ago, Propaganda said:

you mean this? 

 

Yes, but it is only partial.  There's more that's unreleased as I explain above.

I think there will be an Illusions Boxset and that will be great.  There are many great demos like 14 Years with extended outro different than the album.  Also, I think you all know that there is a complete and extended Mates Rehearsal audio tape from 1989 with Steven playing drums and the quality is fantastic.  About half of the rehearsal tapes have been posted online, but many songs are NOT circulated with complete versions of Coma, Bad Apples, Ain't Goin' Down, and several "New Tunes", all with Steven on drums, Izzy/Slash/Duff (no Axl, just instrumental).   Don't ask, it's not going to be posted.  It's in the vault for the band to release when they are ready as part of an Illusions set.  But at least we all have something to look forward to... even better I think than just getting more Illusions concert DVD leaks from 91-93 in my opinion...

1 hour ago, uruguns said:

what's the link between troccoli and the cassette? lol... I haven't been around for a while here, I missed something.

Troccoli lent  memorabilia from his awesome collection to the label to be photographed as part of the book and box set so people were asking if he knew ahead of time about the inclusion of the cassette in the boxset.   Love you, Troccoli!  I'm still jealous!  Maybe some of my collection will be used for the Illusions boxset!  lol...

I'm not sure how "cleaned up" these versions are as they sound identical to the previous bootlegs we've had.  I'm happy for fans that haven't heard it but this is not new to the hardcore fans.

26 minutes ago, lpgnr said:

The Izzy demo that Troccoli obtained not so long ago. 

Is it remastered?  

6 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

The absence of the SCOM demo is unexuseable, especially when talking about the locked n loaded box.  

I completely agree with you!  And no Don't Cry?  The Mystic Studio and Pasha demos should have been partly included.  And no complete soundboard show like Marquee 87... too sad...

I have been a huge fan since 1987 and I have most of these recordings on vinyl/cassette and I honestly can say that these new masters are not much different in quality to the original bootlegs.  I was expecting a huge change in sound quality (crisper, more clear, etc.) but it simply isn't a huge difference in sound quality, period. 

I wish it was just vocal track without the guitar simply so I could hear the lyrics better... it's only 45 seconds but at least it's something none of us had ever heard before...

Just now, Tom-Ass said:

Yeah, even though I have all these songs for the most part on "Make My Day" and Vinyl I will still end up buying the super deluxe to have teh cleaned up versions.. I don't think it is worth $170 but I think people have been getting it for $133 somewhere. I can do that.

Is the quality on the remaster so much better after all?  I've had the vinyl bootlegs of these since 1987 and the bootlegs sound virtually the same to me, at least off the vinyls.  I don't notice a huge upgrade in the audio quality.  Am I wrong?

7 hours ago, D.. said:

Yeah, I won't buy any of this stuff. I consider myself a hardcore fan, but the content of those boxsets is absolutely not what I'm looking for. 

Granted, they look cool, but I see nothing useful in there. Am I going to use the washable tattoos? Nope. The rings? You got to be kidding. What's the use of ticket replicas exactly? Am I supposed to wipe off my ass with those? Do I care if the book is made out of leather? No, I just want to read something interesting, like say, Axl's autobiography. What's the next step, release a boxset made of gold for $1.000.000? 

I can't justify spending either $180 or $1000 in those boxes if I'm not going to use anything, or not hear anything really new. Also, I kind of hate the "we made this out of real leather" and throw in cheap tattoos. It's really disguising shit in gold. If you want to make a luxury item, then don't include garbage, it's simple.

I remember when Chinese Democracy came out, there were loads of deluxe boxsets everywhere in Paris music shops, and they barely sold. They had to lower the price several times and even when it was sold for $50, I didn't even buy it. They are making the same mistake. Even if Appetite is much more popular. Unless they lower the price a lot.

I would consider spending $180 in a boxset if what we had was something really exclusive and never seen/heard before, or hard to find. I'm sure they have loads of live shows in great quality they could put on blu-rays and make a huge boxset with that. Imagine a boxset with the first shows of 2001 in amazing quality, some unreleased songs... Songs that were supposed to make it on Chinese Democracy 2, the CD remixes... Why didn't they remix Crash Diet like they did with Shadow of your love? Why only Move to the city and SOYL?

I don't understand why they went for something so uninteresting. I'd like to hear new music first and foremost, and Axl's thoughts. That's it really. 

Or even, you know, a nice exclusive t-shirt. Something I could actually use. If anyone's gonna use those dumb looking rings, please send me a picture 

 

I agree.  Why no Crash Diet?  And maybe add an exclusive interview with Axl talking about the recording sessions of Appetite,  his memories and recollections,  etc.  And add some recordings like Marquee and Perkins Palace, CBGB, all the great soundboard from 1987.  And  release some rehearsal tapes of the guys practicing.  That would be cool.  I love the new releases but everything is too refined and polished... it's not too late to put out a DVD too....

1 hour ago, 31illusions said:

There are instrumentals on there but they aren't GN'R. It's some songs worked up by West Arkeen, or Del James back in the hell house days. They have a drum machine? It's not the same songs.

What about Nightcrawler demo?  Anybody know what that might be?

10 minutes ago, Underhardy said:

Could’ve sworn I remember a quote from someone saying something along the lines of “it was magical. The guys all sat in a circle around a microphone and just played.” In regards to the lies acoustic sessions... anyone know this quote?

Yes.  The quote was from Mike Clink and apparently everything was done in one take from January 1988.  Let's not forget that they also recorded Cornshucker at that session but due to the vulgarity of the lyrics, it will never be officially released.

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Off topic: Over here in Detroit there are a ton of great record store options:

On topic: I was just in the one I shop the most yesterday. The owner was telling me that their Universal rep came by recently to ask why they haven't had any pre-orders for the Locked & Loaded set. The record store owner said "I told him 'because it's a thousand fucking dollars!'" 

I've seen most of those pictures from the book already.  The Ross Halfin photo shoot was already published in the rock mags so I don't think it is accurate to market the book from the boxset as "full of unreleased photos".  I'm just speaking the truth.

On 6/22/2018 at 6:29 PM, StrangerInThisTown said:

2nd try but cmon spill the beans if you know! what is New Work Tune then? Could it be the Nightcrawler instrumental?

I honestly don't know but it's probably just an instrumental jam.  I'm still shocked they omitted the Sweet Child and Don't Cry demos... and they should have remastered the Marquee shows from June 87 which were amazing.