nunchuck

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy...................

I love BOTH Black Flag AND Green Day, wow, imagine that? is that allowed?!...........................

whos the real deal and who's not? WHAT IS THE REAL DEAL?

Some might say it was Crass, but unfortunately......they were fucking awful........

I would prefer to compare a song like "Basket Case"(at least musically) with something by The Buzzcocks? no?

Were they not infectiously poppy and melodic? no? were a lot of their early songs not about love and relationships?

were they on a independent? yes? OH SHIT, HANG ON, SO WERE GREEN DAY..............................

Damn a band for having ambition after slumming it for a few years hey? because of course, the pistols, clash (live at shea stadium anyone?) and the ramones weren't signed to a major were they?

BUT as you say, its just my opinion and im clearly not the authority.

Next you're gonna tell us about what's properly grunge and what's not, can't wait......

I look forward to your future opinions on Blues, Country, Classical, RnB and World peace.

(was shopping for plaid shirts in 1986 considered cool or uncool, beacuse if it was the latter then ill say 86 was the year of plaid for me, my man! )

Zint, while i could only wish that i was 'cool' enough to have lived through the late 70's and seen the scene 'play out' as you so put it, it appears im not. Damn me for merely being born around that time, guess this means i don't have an opinion.

For someone that claims to be not bitter, but in fact 'highly amused', you come across as a very angry person (in both your replies to myself and the other guy) are you a failed musician or were you a journalist that covered the punk scene in the late seventies, this would actually make a lot of sense. Perhaps you're the one that Sid kicked in that worked for the NME, i forget his name, PLEASE FORGIVE ME but im sure you know who i mean.

The only reason i brought up the touring for cents thing was because a few posts back you raised the excact same issue about the early punk bands, so what? they did it so no one else is allowed to cause it just won't be as cool?

And well....1989 is fairly far back now, a whole 20 years in fact, and if some kid who's just getting into them now decides to look up their first 2 albums and draw inspiration from the fact that they recorded them on an extremely low budget on a small independent label, i think thats pretty cool...your take on things seems to be, don't bother, its all been done.

So what excactly are you saying? no band is allowed to make punk influenced sounding music anymore? when did it die? 1979 with sid? can you give us a date?

Theres been an absolute ton of bands over the last 30 years or so that have made some fucking great PR sounding stuff, all over the world, to refuse to acknowledge them because the original scene faded way back when would be a crying fucking shame. And no, they dont play hockey arenas and win awards blah blah blah, although that wouldnt put me off liking a band if the music was good.

Now im sure your reply will once more centre around the fact on how you've seen and done it all but my opinion just happens to differ from yours, despite your experiences. I believe that a band should be able to be influenced and sound or look or act just how it wants, especially when its them out there playing the music.

For all your "i was there" experience, you miss the point entirely, by saying what is and what is not allowed, you have turned into the bitter old hasbeen, the kind you used to rally against.

You fail to realise that GD toured around the country and played in all kinds of dives, whilst barely making a cent i might add, in a crummy old van barely fit to drive as far back as 1989 when they were 17 yr old kids. If they want to make 'big' sounding rock records 20 years down the line, i think they have earned the right to.

Its not as if they pretend to be anything other than a rock band these days anyway, correct me if im wrong, but i dont see them going around claiming to be 'hardcore' or obeying the laws of PR 101, they never did.

However, there's no denying what they did for their own local punk community in Berkeley, back when they were on Lookout records. They brought punk rock n roll INFLUENCED music back into a new generation of kids who perhaps otherwise would never have even thought about exploring punk rock in any shape or form, and they did that simply through being a decent hard working honest touring band, that has to be worth something.

At the end of the day, they have never claimed to be original and have always wore their influences on their sleeve.

I dont think they would even try and pretend to be relevant in the same way as the bands some 12 years before them were, in the US and of course, the UK. But where does it say that they can't be influenced by those said bands? imagine if The Beatles were not allowed to be influenced by Chuck Berry? the history of popular music as we know it would be very different.

When was it ever about Anarcho-Communalist values anyway?

Green Day are fucking boring and its truly testament to the fact that, at least in terms of a mass consumption level, punk will never exist with any consistency cuz its about the little guy, its about us down here and them up there, its about being original (which Green Day couldn't do if they tried). Punk does not belong and cannot exist on the kind of platform that Green Day are afforded.

Quite apart from all of that they're just lame. You can't take that Ramones ideal and then transplant it onto four other guys and try to make a career out of it, that ain't your life, it ain't your thing and quite frankly, you ain't that fucking good at it. Punk...incites...its stirs shit up, it isn't...this fuckin shit. It never will be...punk was a clear and present and tangible threat...a threat to the established order.

You wanna know what punk is? Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SHnoejlmQg...feature=related

Just listen to that guitar. Ugh...awful isn't it? Sounds like a scrambler that needs a tune up. That energised unpolished teetering on the verge of collapse but just holding it together by the skin of their teeth quality it has. Its exciting, its feral, its vicious, its all four cylinders. You could bring out every Green Day performance on earth and i bet my balls to a barrel of bourbon that you CANNOT TOUCH THAT. Not by a long chalk. A helluva long chalk.

And y'wanna know why? Green Day choose to sound how they sound. The Sex Pistols couldn't've sounded any other way if they tried...and why on earth would we want them too anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOHEMaBVlY4

How'd ya like them apples?

I think its an insult to these bands, these seriously heavy serious intense motherfuckers that toured this entire fucking country relentlessly, went onstage with missed meal cramps and tore into this fuckin music because it was ALL THEY HAD. The shit weren't a fucking career move, it was people on labels like SST and Touch & Go that were literally starving, shuttling from gig to gig, playing every night like it was the last performance, that lived, breathed and believed in this fuckin movement, some of them died, some of them went nuts...and for all that, all that sacrifice, all that fuckin shit and what does it amount to? A bunch of weiners like Green Day?

I'm sorry but no sale.

Come on mate. who's the authority on who or what is punk excactly? you may have your own opinion but it doesn't mean the next person's(who may just happen to think Green Day are actually PR) is any less valid.

Of course, you raise a very valid, if not a bit tiresome, point about the rough and readyness of punk with it's nasty crappy guitars and terrible production but in your own post you also mention the pistols whose album is an extremely huge sounding album with pretty big production and a beefy wall of guitars to back it up, and yet to me it's no less punk.

In my opinion, punk rock is surely about the spirit and what comes from inside. Maybe Green Day feel they can immortalise themselves with the PR term, after all the hard work they put in back in the gilman st days in the late 80's/early 90's, you don't think they ever starved? dont think they ever played in people's kitchens for gas money, if they were lucky?, think again.

Not to mention the fact that, just because GD had a poppy melodic sound (not unlike the very PUNK buzzcocks) back in the early days, doesnt mean they weren't involved/and recorded with some of the more rough and ready bands of the time, crimpshrine, isocracy, fifteen, blatz, dead and gone, all extremely raw and VERY punk sounding bands who also lived hand to mouth for a while.

To make one last point, is it un punk to want to actually progress after a few years of travelling around in a bookmobile, realising your records are not actually getting heard by the amount of people who want to hear them because the small label you're on can't cope with how popular you've become or do you just stay in the same bubble until the inevitable fizzling out,once the young punks have come to watch you eventually get jobs, get married and have kids?

Hell, maybe GD dont even consider themselves punk anymore, im sure they've given different answers at different times to that old chestnut...

But to me, they've broken every rule in the PR 101 rulebook, i think that's pretty fucking punk rock!

Why would you come on to this topic just to say "meh" or "fuck green day"? guess you have no life?.....

the songs are awesome mate, and just because the songs are highly influenced by stuff like The Beatles, The Clash and The Who, doesn't nessceraliy mean its generic. Maybe they just like to write proper tunes, instead of banging on a metal tin in a cave and calling it original.

proper tunes? these tunes are horrible, and doesn't sound beatles-esque, they sound like horrible pop-punk-emo crap thats been popular for a decade

True. Downloaded it, and I wasn't impressed at all. Their records just keep getting worse and worse.

Learn to take criticism, nunchuck. I don't see anywhere this thread is the "unabated greenday lovefest thread".

Ah, its not really that. And i admit i am a little biased as ive been into this band forever and found myself sticking up for them for what seems even longer, they always seem to come in for stick, maybe with their simple melodies and punk rock background, they are an easy target. But they've come in for critisicm ever since Dookie came out (a mere 15 years ago!) with accusations of sell-out and the like. And yet, its funny isnt it? for all the shit they've took over the years and how the 'cooler than thou' people have always balked at the idea of even remotely liking anything by this band, just how many hit singles have they had? or to put it better, how many tunes of theirs, over the past 15 years or so, have been undeniably classic tunes that you cannot get out of your head? Hell, 'Time Of Your Life' is everyone's favourite prom song! that may be about as 'hip' as your nan, but its undeniably a tune, and a classic one at that.

Then they came in for flak with 'American Idiot' SELLOUT! EMO! they cried!......it sold 12 million copies.....

And to call them emo is actually quite ludicrous, they were making music 20 years ago, somehow i generally dont think the term 'emo' was anywhere near around at that time.

If you dont like em, you dont like em and thats fair enough dude. I just find the over used accusations thrown at them are getting a little tiresome, they never claimed to be the most original band in the world. Ever.

Why would you come on to this topic just to say "meh" or "fuck green day"? guess you have no life?.....

the songs are awesome mate, and just because the songs are highly influenced by stuff like The Beatles, The Clash and The Who, doesn't nessceraliy mean its generic. Maybe they just like to write proper tunes, instead of banging on a metal tin in a cave and calling it original.

If anyone, ANYONE knows or hears of any other shows being played please PM me. I really want to see them but i think i hate korn and limp bizkit just as much as i love FNM, be interesting to see if Patton makes any comments about these 2 bands. Anyways, i know its unlikely they will do any other UK dates but cheers guys!

No man, its totally different! cant wait for album also!

http://www.mediafire.com/?trzndd4izxz

Discuss!

I've got Night at the Opera and I really don't like it. Am I right in giving up on liking this band? Or do they have some sort of less overblown, more gritty stuff that I might find interesting?

Try the self titled debut from 1973, particularly the tracks Great King Rat and Liar. Let me know what you think.

Be Here Now by a landslide.

Yup, that one gets my vote an all

only answer if you have properly heard the newie 'Dig Out Your Soul.

The first 7 tracks are great, for me it trails off a little after that.

It could well be the best album since Be Here Now (which i love) a bit early to judge yet though.

is it me or should this just be retitled 'REDNECK FEST' and be done with it?!!

i do like freebird though. especially the solo at the end.

And who cares if it was?

Anyone who isnt a gun toting, homophobic, racist, sexist, narrow minded asshole.

basically.......

Are you alright? Somebody cut you off on the way to work?

yeh, a redneck!

is it me or should this just be retitled 'REDNECK FEST' and be done with it?!!

i do like freebird though. especially the solo at the end.

And who cares if it was?

Anyone who isnt a gun toting, homophobic, racist, sexist, narrow minded asshole.

basically.......

is it me or should this just be retitled 'REDNECK FEST' and be done with it?!!

i do like freebird though. especially the solo at the end.

i think you should ask the sex pistols, they played north america and then broke up the next day!

Anyone catch this over the weekend? they fucking owned!

they were that good, they could even afford to finish their set with a brand new song.

people people, surely this is down to a matter of taste?!

but the fact that jay z came on and sang what is undeniably a fucking anthem, badly out of tune is hardly a two fingered response to gallagher. if anything it made him look rather foolish.

couple that with the fact that practically the entire glastonbury crowd were singing heartily along to a song he was trying to take the piss out of only illustrates my point further.

oh, and he was fucking shite as well!

No mentions of 'Listen Up' or 'Don't Go Away' ?!!!!

Would you listen to yourselves?! you're all biggin up an ex member of N Sync!

He may be cool to like now, but im not havin it. No fucking way!

Gonna be honest, my oppion isn't gonna change when a guy with Billy Joe Armstrong tells me about music credibility. Justin's got more talent than Billy ever has. Just because he's music isn't my taste doesn't make him untalented.

Oh just do one will ya?! this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Green Day. I mean, i guess i should change the damn pic, it is pretty old, but im keeping it now just for the principle and to annoy people. I mean do i come onto a thread about Justin Timberlake and tell you that wrestling is staged and it sucks?! no?! cause it does, so there!

Would you listen to yourselves?! you're all biggin up an ex member of N Sync!

He may be cool to like now, but im not havin it. No fucking way!

Way, way, way, way, way old.

True though, although I hate Green Day...

Yes. It's almost as old as wondering whether Chinese Democracy will ever come out

Oh, the wit. Would you like a medal? Round of applause?

The point being, you dragged a topic up from late last year, and want us to discuss a topic thats been done over- yet get annoyed when I tell you it's old to save your face. Jeez, won't help you again.

Oasis > Green Day

You weren't trying to help me, you were just trying to be a smartass. There are topics that have been discussed many times before, that are 'way way older' (late last year is actually not that old seen as we are only just into feb.) Unfortunately i do not have the psychic powers to already know there has been a thread about this. Neither do i have the time to go searching endless threads just incase, wait for it, shock horror. SOMEBODY'S ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT!

I really do aplogise, what do you want me to talk about? how shit your mum is?!

No, if I was being a smartass, I'd reply with a witty comeback - if I may quote W.Axl Kev to fit your last comment:

If i wanted a cumback I'd wipe it off your mother's chin.

Like above ^^

It has been done do death, and then I gave my opinion, a fair valid point. The point being, that not only has this been discussed several times - but many conclusions have come of it. One of these being, you're a pretentious jackass. Or did we just discover that?

It wouldn't be the first time a band has borrowed another bands material, and it was a tongue in cheek remark. Take it as that.

Yes ok, have it your way. I am a pretentious jackass

I liked the funny mum remark by the way, but, unfortunately, it wasn't yours was it?!

Ok guys, from here on in nobody is to discuss ANYTHING. For fear of it being talked about before. So much for discussion forums huh?

Now, if you'll excuse me. I have a life to attend to. Happy surfing sandman computer nerd, hope you have many a happy hour trawling through people's threads in the hope that you can discover someone else who's talking about something that someone, someday has mentioned before! ooh, the saddo's!

Way, way, way, way, way old.

True though, although I hate Green Day...

Yes. It's almost as old as wondering whether Chinese Democracy will ever come out

Oh, the wit. Would you like a medal? Round of applause?

The point being, you dragged a topic up from late last year, and want us to discuss a topic thats been done over- yet get annoyed when I tell you it's old to save your face. Jeez, won't help you again.

Oasis > Green Day

You weren't trying to help me, you were just trying to be a smartass. There are topics that have been discussed many times before, that are 'way way older' (late last year is actually not that old seen as we are only just into feb.) Unfortunately i do not have the psychic powers to already know there has been a thread about this. Neither do i have the time to go searching endless threads just incase, wait for it, shock horror. SOMEBODY'S ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT!

I really do aplogise, what do you want me to talk about? how shit your mum is?!

Way, way, way, way, way old.

True though, although I hate Green Day...

Yes. It's almost as old as wondering whether Chinese Democracy will ever come out