rabia

Looks like the show went great and the cupcakes tried to drown their pain in desperate trolling.

TWAT and CITR + so much more, fantastic. Chris Pittman looks so at ease in his kurta, maybe he can make it his signature style.

These Tony-Trujillo pictures are absolutely amazing! Is he associated with the band in some official capacity?

What a GREAT version! Bumble is just pure gold, plain and simple. Guitar work in this is so good + Axl nails it! Thank you for the video!!

That just sounded effortless, sounded wonderful without anyone breaking a sweat. The visuals on the screen also look really interesting.

Thanks, Silent Jay. That was fun. Did you happen to see who Axl was playfully wagging his finger at, midway through the song?

pwned.

Several people met Axl (not sure how many met him backstage though). I find it interesting that you'd 'bother' to spend money going to Vegas to see them.

You find it "interesting" that I'd go and see a band that I've been following for the past 25 years? Umm ..ok. *shrugs*

Umm ... I think this is one example of why she finds it interesting:

:rofl-lol:

:rofl-lol:

Wow, its hard to come back from that one. So much bluster followed by a whimper.

This was the better of the two shows I saw this weekend. Dead Flowers was a cool surprise, and I'd never seen it, Used To Love Her, Catcher, or 14 Years, so there were quite a few new songs for me. Izzy was fuckin' cool!

Some photos:

http://www.facebook....=1&l=873abf1857

Fantastic pictures. Axl without the hat and glasses seems to exude so much more intensity.

Better... I have some others to upload but HRH Internet is shitty.

That was phenomenol. Ron was terrific as usual throughout the song but his backing vocals are excellent too. DJ's solo was great, Axl was killing it. Plus we got the whole experience in HD. Fantastic stuff.

There's so much going on that if I was there, I'd probably go a bit crazy trying to decide where to look.

Gnr also just played in Vegas, La and all the surrounding areas a number of times over the past couple of years. Also, not sure what time of year Crue played Vegas but this time of year was too hard for me to make it to Vegas. I havent ruled out a last minute attempt but Ive seen this show a number of times. There's definitely less of a sense of urgency for me to pull out my credit card and spend money I dont have. I may just wait and go to Def Leppard in the spring. I havent seen them in years. Doesnt mean I like them more than gnr. Not even close. Same probably was the case for Crue selling out.

But that's just the thing. They did NOT sell out, Groghan falsely claimed that they did.

If GN'R have already reached Motley Crue's attendance records for their entire residency, then ironically by Groghan's OWN selected criteria, GN'R's residency is very successful.

Funny how those numbers were supposed to be great for Crue but they're supposed to be bad for GN'R.

Did Groghan claim that they sold out EVERY show? Which bands ticket prices were higher In 2011? Which band sold more tickets? Which band had the higher average gross?

During the relatively early days of the GN'R residency, Groghan lamented that GN'R were not selling out while "Motley Crue sold out their residency" - that certainly suggests that he meant overall because if it was selling out one or two shows then why was he complaining when GN'R had many many shows to go?

The 2011 numbers are irrelevant because his claim was about the residencies which both happened in 2012.

Gnr also just played in Vegas, La and all the surrounding areas a number of times over the past couple of years. Also, not sure what time of year Crue played Vegas but this time of year was too hard for me to make it to Vegas. I havent ruled out a last minute attempt but Ive seen this show a number of times. There's definitely less of a sense of urgency for me to pull out my credit card and spend money I dont have. I may just wait and go to Def Leppard in the spring. I havent seen them in years. Doesnt mean I like them more than gnr. Not even close. Same probably was the case for Crue selling out.

But that's just the thing. They did NOT sell out, Groghan falsely claimed that they did.

If GN'R have already reached Motley Crue's attendance records for their entire residency, then ironically by Groghan's OWN selected criteria, GN'R's residency is very successful.

Funny how those numbers were supposed to be great for Crue but they're supposed to be bad for GN'R.

It is funny how some people say attendance doesn't matter.....then they celebrate GnR selling 3000 tickets. Motley sold out their residency, weird that GnR can't.

These were Groghan's words which lead to the debate in this thread. He was asked by several members to give evidence for his claim and contrary evidence was posted that showed that Motley Crue did NOT sell out their residency. Groghan failed to prove his false claim. That is the objective truth of this thread.

So now Groghan is trying to change the argument to the Pollstar ranking for 2011, a year that does not apply to either residency in question (GN'R's or Motley Crue's). But since he has been exposed he has no other options left but to try to divert things in another direction. Sad.

And here are the 2011 Pollstar final numbers, that show that Motley Crue had a much better financial year than GnR did.

Why this bothers some of you sooooo much, and why some of you are obsessed with everything I say - even going so far as to make up words to describe me and take shots at my personal life.....well, I guess that says as much about you as it does about your perception of me.

Rabia.....you keep throwing out wild and crazy claims, and ignoring the questions of yours that I do answer. So until you scale down your agression and insults, and actually ask a specific question - don't expect a response. Let's see if you can do it. Ask a specific question or point out something that you think I purposely lied about, do it without an insult, and I will respond. Are you capable of doing this?

http://www.metal4all...-tours-of-2011/

Are you capable of something beyond playing the victim? When you made a claim yourself and were asked to give evidence for it, why was your response "I love it how people cant stop talking about me"? Do you realize that when you make a claim, it is perfectly logical for people to question it.

By the way, what was the point of posting a link about the raunch and sleaze conent of the Motley Crue show? You posted 3 links, one of which was entirely irrelevant and two which contained nothing beyond Vince Neil himself claiming that their residency sold out. There's no solid evidence of your claims here at all. So this time, take more than 5 minutes because once again your claim remains unsupported.

Are you capable of making a post without personal insults? What does pointing out your posting style habe to do with playing the victim? You might want to do a little research yourself and learn what that phrase means. Tomorrow at school you should seek out your English teacher.....hell, find any teacher and have them explain it to you.

I think it is hilarious how freaked and over emotional you get. It is fun to watch you lose it.

All three stories contain information about the shows selling out. Rabia, if you aren't able to navigate and understand posted information, maybe you shouldn't engage adults in debates. Surely your high school has a debate team? There you could try and match wits with others in your same IQ range?

MSL........so we shouldn't believe what actual band members say? (But we are suppose to believe what an anonymous band member emailed you?) Ok, that makes perfect sense. So does that mean we shouldn't believe anything Axl says as well?

And lol. I'm changing the arguement? The pollstar 2011 numbers have been part of this entire discussion. You and a few others just dropped that part because it showed motley is a bigger draw in the US than GnR. Funny how that works.

But sure. I'm sorry that I posted what the lead singer of a band said about his band. And that I posted information contained in at least three different websites. And I'm sorry that that motley crue is a bigger draw than GnR, and that you guys let a shows attendance effect you so much.

Hehe! Yes, people are getting "emotional" over you, everybody is itching to "talk about you", the whole world revolves around you. Keep telling yourself that, Groghan.

Your habitual whining about me has nothing to do with the fact that you DID play the victim here after being exposed for making false claims. On being questioned, your response was the typical "don't insult me, people cant stop talking me" nonsense which you keep using to cover up your false claims time and again. Its not just me, Gunzen also noted this constant behaviour of yours. So do yourself a favour and educate yourself because playing the victim is your tired little tactic. You who habitually group people together in neat little piles trying to deny them any individuality and labelling them because you cant answer their arguments, you cry about being "insulted" when people expose your shoddy claims. Its hilarious.

Dont make a further joke of yourself by mentioning "IQ" after you posted a link commenting on Motley Crue's sleazy content as if its evidence of them "selling out a residency" .

BY your laughable logic, bandmembers are always 100% reliable sources when talking about their bands. So by that logic, any and all things DJ EVR says about GN'R MUST be accepted as true despite the fact that there may be ZERO objective verification for them.

All 3 of your links were IRRELEVANT. The reason organizations such as Billboard, Pollstar exist is because there has to be an EXTERNAL measure of how a band does, not the lead singer's statements on ticket sales. So much for an "adult" engaging in debate. Did you believe Slash too whn he said that Libertad had the same level of "chemistry" as the early GN'R sessions?

They probavly dropped it because its played a thousand times and its no wonder that they want a break from it now and then.

Okay, that's an exaggeration but seriously, it has been played a LOT!

There's so much metal on Axl that walking close to a magnet would be dangerous.

Airport security must be a nightmare

"Mr. Rose, please take off all metal objects".

"Okay, give me 20 minutes".

More pics here: http://www.revolverm...as.html#slide-3

There's so much metal on Axl that walking close to a magnet would be dangerous.

And here are the 2011 Pollstar final numbers, that show that Motley Crue had a much better financial year than GnR did.

Why this bothers some of you sooooo much, and why some of you are obsessed with everything I say - even going so far as to make up words to describe me and take shots at my personal life.....well, I guess that says as much about you as it does about your perception of me.

Rabia.....you keep throwing out wild and crazy claims, and ignoring the questions of yours that I do answer. So until you scale down your agression and insults, and actually ask a specific question - don't expect a response. Let's see if you can do it. Ask a specific question or point out something that you think I purposely lied about, do it without an insult, and I will respond. Are you capable of doing this?

http://www.metal4all...-tours-of-2011/

Are you capable of something beyond playing the victim? When you made a claim yourself and were asked to give evidence for it, why was your response "I love it how people cant stop talking about me"? Do you realize that when you make a claim, it is perfectly logical for people to question it.

By the way, what was the point of posting a link about the raunch and sleaze conent of the Motley Crue show? You posted 3 links, one of which was entirely irrelevant and two which contained nothing beyond Vince Neil himself claiming that their residency sold out. There's no solid evidence of your claims here at all. So this time, take more than 5 minutes because once again your claim remains unsupported.

You guys need to stop acting like you have any idea what's going on.

But that's pretty much the lifeblood of this forum...

Just because something happens a lot doesnt make it a good thing.

I've been surprised at TWAT and Catcer being played consistently and The Seeker was unexpeced as well.

MSL and his grab bag of excuses for GnR....lmao

Yes, wanting to play music as musicians is such a horrible "excuse"!

Corn....if I got "owned" what do you call what Soulmonster did?

Rabia.....until you actually produce a fact and not just your usual "Axl is God" and personal attacks on people you disagree with, then your opinion holds no weight with me. I realize you are very young, so I'm not going to respond to your insults. Keep that grudge alive though, if that is what makes you happy.

MSL....per usual your message is extremely over the top. Sorry I'm not on the forum 24/7. Your response is exactly why i stopped responding to you. I had to go off line to cook dinner for my family. That seemed a little more important than answering a complete stranger on a rock forum.

You guys take this forum way too seriously. Really does seem like a few of you prefer to argue and insult people rather than have a discussion.

As for the actual topic, which should be more important than the constant insults.... Motley crue didn't sell out? The couple websites I saw said they did. It was a five minute yahoo search. Somebody found something that said they didnt......sweet. I could not care less either way. You guys say attendance doesn't matter.....but then freak out about GnR numbers. I personally don't care who sells more tickets.

MSL.......what are the overall Pollstar rankings for 2011????? I notice none of you are disputing those numbers. Weird how that works.

So how about this.

GnR sold more tickets at their residency than Motley Crue did. According to Pollstar, in 2011, motley grossed more money, had a higher total attendance, and sold out a higher percentage of their shows than GnR.

Hopefully attendance and gross aren't that important to you guys.

Oh, one more question. I think CD is the best rock album of the last decade, that it is just as good as either Illusion, and I really hope Axl gives this band a chance to shine. So YES.....I suppose that does make me a hater.

Well, the wife is through giving our baby his bath, so I'm not going to be able to respond for awhile. So my apologies in advance for not responding again immediately.

Groghan, nobody is saying anything that can even REMOTELY be interpreted as an "Axl is god" argument. You YOURSELF made a FALSE claim, have been asked REPEATEDLY to show evidence to back up your claim, have produced NADA as do you do every single time you're put on the spot.

The evidence we have seen proves that what you stated was clearly false. From gnrkoncerti's information, it becomes evident that you were wrong about Motley grossing more money, your SECOND claim after the first one that Motley sold out their residency which ALSO proved false. Why cant you admit this like a reasonable person? Why must you hide behind your family- no disrespect but they have nothing to do with this thread.

Its not a "grudge" to question your claims. Upon posting falsehoods on a public forum, you or anybody else can ALWAYS have questions directed towards them. This is not some mean and evil thing - its a concern with something called reality and facts.

straw man + nutter = grog han?

straw man + nutter = grog han?

Pretty much. SoulMonster coined the highly effective term Groghanism to refer to this repetitive technique which is synonymous with the poster in question. To appreciate the full picture, you need to be familiar with the inevitable last step where he plays the victim, pretends that everybody is horrible and a nutter for demanding from him any shred of evidence whatsoever for the things he claims.

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone on this board. You guys are awesome. I really appreciate the support, and even more so the well wishes. I just spent the day hopping from one hospital to the other to see my parents. My dad is a tough bastard, and I'm sure he will be ok. My mom however, in all likelihood, has a terminal brain disease called Lewy Bodies Disease which no one has ever heard of, but is actually the second most diagnosed neurological disorder behind Alzheimers. It's a real motherfucker of a disease, and she is in pretty bad shape. Like I said, this trip was basically about 3 things. Getting the fuck out of Dodge for a few days to get my mind off shit, seeing GnR, and celebrating my friend's brother in law's 21st birthday. My friend wanted/needed me to be there so much he bought me the plane tickets and the hotel room after I told him there is no way I can afford to go right now. After he had that mic taken away I knew it was up to me to get it back for him. It was like fate. Honestly, in retrospect this whole thing was meant to be, including having it taken away and getting it back. This story is perfect. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

Now, just need to get it, frame it all up, and give it to my friend.

I honestly wish I could post the voicemail I got from the Hard Rock. It is easily the favorite voicemail I have ever got. Apolgizing profusly for any inconvenience, confirming my address, leaving personal cell numbers to call in case I have any issues, and stating repeatedly that it is the band and its management that is sending it back to me. Just totally badass. You could basically hear how the band must have had a nice little sit down about this shit, and how it would be stopping, now, in her voice. Sensational.

GnR forever.

Its fantastic that your efforts paid off and the mic will rightfully be returned to you. I cant imagine the stress of facing such a difficult time and having both parents in the hospital, I pray that your parents make a speedy recovery.

Maybe you and your friend can take joint custody of the mic since you brought the issue to everyone's attention and got it back.

Really hoping for a good video of Catcher. They've played it a few times now so hopefully its getting better and better.

so glad they are making money! fuck the music!

It is funny how some people say attendance doesn't matter.....then they celebrate GnR selling 3000 tickets. Motley sold out their residency, weird that GnR can't.

Can you provide an example of someone here saying attendance doesn't matter and then celebrating GNR selling 3,000 tickets? I don't think you can. I think every post you make is a blatant strawman argument, attacking a position nobody has taken. This seems to be the only tactic you have and time and time again when you're asked to provide an example of the supposed behavior you're criticizing, you run and hide.

As for Motley, I have no idea whether they sold out every show of their residency or not, but I do know GNR's 12 show residency is on track to gross more money than Motley's 12 show residency. Are you able to provide any citation for your claim that Motley sold out all 12 shows?

Would it be more impressive if the GNR shows cost less, sold more tickets, but ultimately made less money? If so, why?

I also wanna know who Groghan's refering to when he talks about "some people".

I think in reality we're talking about two different groups of people all along, it's not the same people who takes two different stands.

You could also say it's funny how Groghan has done a near complete 180 in his opinions of this band this past year...

I love how you guys can't stop talking about me. Warms my heart. All the people that spend the majority of their time whining about other posters.

Sprite....wrong. I've said a hundred times that CD is the best album of the last decade, that it is just as good as either Illusion, I've seen the new band three times and I can't wait for Axl to give the current band a chance to shine on a new album. My love for Axl hasn't changed. I just don't worship Axl's every move like some do, and I don't make personal attacks on anybody who doesn't worship Axl 24/7. People used to call me a Nutter......but there is NO way I ever want to be grouped with people like Rabia, Mls and volcano.

MLS....sorry bro. Not taking your bait anymore. I've tried to respond to your specific questions in the past. You aren't here to talk about GnR. You are on some weird agenda to wipe the slate clean for trying to blackmail Axl. I know, this is where you threaten to either sue me or say you have put $20,000 in escrow and will race me for the money. You are a self admitted cupcake.....I'm here to chat with GnR fans, not with people who brag about trolling the board.

Gunzen....still mad cuz I showed you what a hypocrite you were being. Funny. Take your own advice. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

Rabia.....every post you make is so full of negativety. You must defeat anybody who isn't worshipping your idol. So full of anger and bitterness. Such a shame, as your God is putting in great shows and getting great reviews.

Why don't you stop worrying and focusing on the negative, and try and enjoy being a GnR fan?

Thank you guys. I was kind of cranky today, but your posts put me in a good mood. Thanks!!!!

so glad they are making money! fuck the music!

It is funny how some people say attendance doesn't matter.....then they celebrate GnR selling 3000 tickets. Motley sold out their residency, weird that GnR can't.

Can you provide an example of someone here saying attendance doesn't matter and then celebrating GNR selling 3,000 tickets? I don't think you can. I think every post you make is a blatant strawman argument, attacking a position nobody has taken. This seems to be the only tactic you have and time and time again when you're asked to provide an example of the supposed behavior you're criticizing, you run and hide.

As for Motley, I have no idea whether they sold out every show of their residency or not, but I do know GNR's 12 show residency is on track to gross more money than Motley's 12 show residency. Are you able to provide any citation for your claim that Motley sold out all 12 shows?

Would it be more impressive if the GNR shows cost less, sold more tickets, but ultimately made less money? If so, why?

I also wanna know who Groghan's refering to when he talks about "some people".

I think in reality we're talking about two different groups of people all along, it's not the same people who takes two different stands.

You could also say it's funny how Groghan has done a near complete 180 in his opinions of this band this past year...

I love how you guys can't stop talking about me. Warms my heart. All the people that spend the majority of their time whining about other posters.

Sprite....wrong. I've said a hundred times that CD is the best album of the last decade, that it is just as good as either Illusion, I've seen the new band three times and I can't wait for Axl to give the current band a chance to shine on a new album. My love for Axl hasn't changed. I just don't worship Axl's every move like some do, and I don't make personal attacks on anybody who doesn't worship Axl 24/7. People used to call me a Nutter......but there is NO way I ever want to be grouped with people like Rabia, Mls and volcano.

MLS....sorry bro. Not taking your bait anymore. I've tried to respond to your specific questions in the past. You aren't here to talk about GnR. You are on some weird agenda to wipe the slate clean for trying to blackmail Axl. I know, this is where you threaten to either sue me or say you have put $20,000 in escrow and will race me for the money. You are a self admitted cupcake.....I'm here to chat with GnR fans, not with people who brag about trolling the board.

Gunzen....still mad cuz I showed you what a hypocrite you were being. Funny. Take your own advice. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

Rabia.....every post you make is so full of negativety. You must defeat anybody who isn't worshipping your idol. So full of anger and bitterness. Such a shame, as your God is putting in great shows and getting great reviews.

Why don't you stop worrying and focusing on the negative, and try and enjoy being a GnR fan?

Thank you guys. I was kind of cranky today, but your posts put me in a good mood. Thanks!!!!

Groghan, this post of your is another example of how you keep making false claims, keep getting asked to provide evidence to back up your false claims, fail miserably to do so, then either run away with your tail between your legs or rail impotently about people who "cant stop talking about you".

Ironically, the criticism made of you in this thread as in countless other threads is that you make false claims and hide behind vague statements grouping people and labelling them and that's EXACTLY what you did once again. A man with greater self-awareness would be embarassed.

Its not "negativity" or "worship" to ask you to prove what you YOURSELF claimed ie that Motley Crue sold out their residency. Of course it seems "negative" to you since AS USUAL you cant prove your falsehoods. Dont worry about anybody's moods except your own. GN'R's offering plenty of great entertainment but watching "people" who lie continuously get frustrated and throw a tantrum is fun too.

That's a fantastic picture, Angeles. Whre did you find it?

from an Interview with Dj ASHBA , Richard Fortus & Ron Bumblefoot Thal by Total Guitar Magazine

Thanks, you always post the best pictures.