Count Drugcula

Don't damn me.

They have played that one.... Back in the days...

Nope. Only track from that album never played...and a damn shame it is, too

And actually very weird! I mean there were obviously room even for You ain't the first

You Ain't The First is a damn good track.

Maybe Axl wasn't feeling the need o play that song live... IDK

You can ask him when he does another "ask Hour with Axl"

I forget where I read it, but Axl refused to play Don't Damn Me live because he felt the song "explained itself" or "spoke for itself" and didn't need to be played.

I used to think this album was "meh", but upon relistening to it--I gotta say, it's probably their dirtiest and most decadent record. I don't mean dirtiest in sound, because Exile has that...But it's their most sleazy record. Starting with the seductive, murky, Voodoo "Dancing with Mr. D", which has Jagger at his most sensual, and writing some of his most clever, decadent lyrics; He's not just sympathizing with the Devil anymore, he's willingly embracing the Devil and dancing with him.

Unlike the more straight forward "Sympathy for the Devil", Mr D is much more metaphorical and ambivalent--it can be about simply the Boogie Man Devil figure, or about death itself (as Mick ponders in the song how death will come), or it can be about drugs--that other "Mr. D" that like the Devil of Christian theology and mythology can draw you in and drag you down if you dance too long and close with it. This is like Sympathy for the Devil revisited after the tragedies of the 1960s--After watching people like Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin and Brian Jones himself dance too close with Mr. D and fall. It's almost like a proto-Mr Brownstone.

The record continues with 100 Years Ago, which showcases (as does most of this album) the interplay of Jagger's rarely deeper lyricism and Mick Taylor's light, melodic guitar play, with great changes through the song, great rough and distorted rhythm guitar by Keith.

The weakest song on the album is ironically in the one Keith sung song, Coming Down Again, though it makes sense for Keith to be off as when this record came out in 1973 Keith was at the lowest point of his Heroin addiction and it seemed like he might turn into another Brian Jones.

The album picks up again with another great Mick and Mick track, Doo Doo Doo (Heart Breaker) with some rare socially conscious lyrics and a very funky sound, nice bluesy piano licks noodling in the background by either Ian Stewart or Nicky Hopkins; A great mix of the funkadelic guitars, the horns, and the backing vocals by Mick and Keith. A great, funk rocker by the Stones, featuring a great solo.

Then you've got the world reknowned Stones classic, Angie, penned by Keith Richards--It's the one real moment where Keith shines on the album; Ironically, it's this song which, while a worldwide hit, made many think the Stones were going soft, losing their edge, and later gave fuel for the Punk Rockers against the Stones--Sort of like the Stones' version of November Rain in that regard--A great song, but not something you'd expect from them. Probably some of Keith's most beautiful lyrics--He's always been better at writing love songs (lyrically) than rockers. Beautiful strings and sublime guitar interplay; An almost Spanish sort of feel to the track. Classic.

Silver Train goes back to the band's Chuck Berry roots, with great guitar interplay by Mick and Keith. It almost sounds like something the early (pre psychedelic) Brian Jones era Stones would've put out--A very rough and tumble rocker. The only flaw to this song is it's too polished, mixed a little poor and the guitars lack a biting sort of sound.

Hide Your Love is another great Mick/Mick track; based off Mick Jagger fucking around on the piano and makes for a REAL blues song by the Stones--It almost sounds like it could've been on Exile. It's got great lead guitar and bluesy solos by Mick Taylor; Keith is pretty much absent on this track. Mick T. plays everything from guitar to bass on this song.

Winter is anther great Mick/Mick track, sort of like 100 Years Ago--Same sort of thing going on here. It's kind of like a mix of 100 Years Ago, Moonlight Mile and Sway, but much rawer than Moonlight Milre and tighter constructed than Sway. It's a relaxing track, the kind of song you could just shut your eyes and listen to after a long stressful day--the kind of song that might've been written as the Stones came off the road off their massive 1972 tour.

Can You Hear the Music is an odd one, but great--an esoteric sort of song which sounds like a harkening back to the Stones experimental days of 1966-1967. It's got that same experimental sound of the Brian Jones 1967 era Stones. It's like a Satanic Majesties' Request era song meets Exile, remixed by Jimmy Miller.

Then we come to the close, a rolling, rollicking rocker and a classic all of it's own--Star Star. Keith's second baby on this album and probably their most sleaziest, dirtiest rocker ever; A tribute to the groupies and loose women hanging around the band and a jetlagged, Chuck Berry inspired romp from New York to LA; the epitome of the Stones at their dirtiest, most rockstar era and a great musical capture of that moment. Keith plays a great solo here and his and Mick's vocals on the chorus as always make for a great harmony.

I know this album kind of gets downed since it came out right after Exile, but let's be honest: No band can really ever top their obligatory epic double album. However, I'd rank this album in the Stones' top ten. This is their LA Woman--A raw, dirty, bluesy masterpiece.

Who do you guys feel is a better rhythm guitarist and works better with Slash?

And if Izzy was for some reason unavailable, who would you use for the rhythm spot in a Guns reunion?

I'm gonna have to pick Gilby. I really don't like Dave

Izzy writes way better songs, Slash plays way better guitar, but together those guys are one mean force to be reckoned with

Perfectly put.

Izzy needs a great lead guitarist, Slash needs a great rhythm guitarist. Makes me wish he had joined VR. I think out of all the rhythm guys that Slash has played with, Dave clicks the least with him. At least Gilby managed to get the first Snakepit record (which I love) out of him.

I think Jimi is kind of overrated...His style is that non-emotional style

non-emotional?

While others were falling all over themselves trying to be the fucking Beatles,Hendrix slid in the side door and just knocked everything off its axis.

You need to study Monterey.

Hendrix wielded a giant fucking hard-on with six strings and fucked everybody left of sideways.

His music oozed emotion.

NO ONE laid it down like that before Hendrix.

He may have been INNOVATIVE...But not necessarily that great in retrospect.

I'm watching "Wild Thing" from Monterey as we speak...Sloppy. Maybe nobody else was playing as heavy in 1967, sure, but...others bettered whatever he laid the foundation for.

I'll take Page or Clapton or Peter Green any day over him.

I think Jimi is kind of overrated...His style is that non-emotional style that would predate those like Finck or BBF. That messy, not really emotional style.

Guys like Jimmy Page, Chuck Berry, Peter Green, Santana, Slash, Keith Richards, Dave Gilmour, George Harrison, Mick Taylor, they're not as technically proficient as Jimi but their work especially their solos speaks of heart, of emotion. Jimi is too technical and sloppy for my tastes.

With all due respect you are not even close to correct regarding Jimi's playing. He is probably the most natural non technical out of all the guitarists you mentioned. Jimi was a perfectionist in the studio but his live shows were completely free form playing. Go listen to the first Band of Gypsys Live album and in particular "Machine Gun" the mans emotions flow his soul in through his fingers on that song...Mick Taylor, who I love, was much more techincal in his live playing then Jimi......give Band of Gypsys a listen and let me know if you still have the same opinoin.

But that's just my problem: In the studio, he's overly technical; live, he's overly messy (like a BBF or Finck).

I've listened to plenty of stuff of his, and maybe it's just too avant garde for my tastes; I've never really been a fan. As a songwriter, I like some of his songs, but I'm not a fan of him as a guitarist. Like I said, Taylor, Santana, Slash, Page, Gilmour--they may not be technically GREAT, but IMO the whole point of the guitar is the beauty you can create with it, not your proficiency. All of the guys I mentioned (with the exception of Keith and Chuck) have in their styles both live and studio a perfect mix of sloppy and technical--Able to create beauty by mixing the two sides of the spectrum.

I think Jimi is kind of overrated...His style is that non-emotional style that would predate those like Finck or BBF. That messy, not really emotional style.

Guys like Jimmy Page, Chuck Berry, Peter Green, Santana, Slash, Keith Richards, Dave Gilmour, George Harrison, Mick Taylor, they're not as technically proficient as Jimi but their work especially their solos speaks of heart, of emotion. Jimi is too technical and sloppy for my tastes.

You're forgetting Chuck Berry =O

What about Moonlight Mile, Sway, and Time Waits for No One?

Or Fool to Cry? There's also Worried About You from Tattoo You.

2000 Lightyears from Home could be considered a psychedelic epic.

Midnight Rambler could be considered an epic rocker....

No, no, and no.

No. No.

No.

No.

I'd maybe group 2000 and MR with the three I mentioned (LIL, SOM, SWH). The other, no way.

Well, what do you mean by 'epic' exactly then?

My version of 'epic' is, well, deep sort of lyrics, beautiful melody, emotional solo, well worked sort of sound. Something grand.

For example, Ten Years Gone by Led Zeppelin is a prime example of an epic (for me).

November Rain by Guns could be another.

I think Izzy's songwriting was a massive factor in GnR's success.

But I think Slash's post-gnr work wipes the floor with Izz's.

Maybe Izz's songwiriting is a real bare bones style that needed Axl and Slash to elevate it.

I agree with this.

Most of his solo albums sound exactly the same. Every track, every album bar a few stand outs.

Great writer, but needed the other guys just as much as they needed him. He was the backbone but Axl, Slash, Duff and Adler added the flair and sound of GnR.

The backbone is harder to write then anything else because before there's a backbone, there's nothing. Izzy writes from scratch, by himself. That takes more talent.

It's not so black and white.

Neil Diamond wrote and released 'Red, red wine', it really didn't do well in the charts. UB40 come along and take that song, add their own sound and it becomes an international hit.

It takes talent to see the potential in something and take it to that next level.

I don't doubt Izzy's talent and the work he puts in or his importance to Guns n Roses...but since Guns...it's clear Izzy was the foundation of that band.

But nobody wants to live in a 'foundation structure', people want to live in a house, with a roof, windows, nice furnishing and running facilities. Those being the rest of the band. Without the rest of the band...Izzy is just potential.

His solo albums prove this in my mind.

Music is subjective though so, just my thoughts.

Also, I feel Slash's solos are much better than Izzy's. He's got a knack for pulling them out of his sleeve.

Which is something I value personally in a guitarist...A guitarist's soloing capabilities say a lot to me about them as a guitarist, their feel, their style, their talent, etc.

Izzy is a great backbone/rhythm writer...But he's no lead guitarist, at least, not a good FULL TIME lead guitarist. His SONGS are good from a song perspective, but not if you enjoy great leads. On AFD, he's basically co-lead guitarist with Slash, but it works because he PLAYS OFF Slash, the whole lead there thing isn't resting on Izzy solely. Really, AFD is like an amped up Stones album in terms of the guitar dynamics. Four guitars by two guys, which is how Keith always envisioned the Stones.

Three questions:

1) What is guitar shredding exactly? I mean from a technical perspective or whatever...The word is bandied about a lot, even by me, but I've never quite understood what defines it exactly

2) If you dislike shredding, why do you dislike it?

3) Can anyone list some early (like pre 1985 let's say) examples of shredding in a band or song or record? It seems to have been an '80s invention.

Much appreciated <3.

Memory Motel could turn any album into a masterpiece.

The Stones haven't really done epics, have they? They've touched on many genres and sub-genres but large, epic songs, not really. It's just Memory Motel and You Can't Always Get What You Want, I guess. (Coincidentally, my two favorite Stones songs) Kinda contrasts with their live shows. I guess She Was Hot, Let It Loose and Saint Of Me have some characteristics of that but aren't really there. (And don't mention Can't You Hear Me Knocking and Goin' Home - those are just long.)

What about Moonlight Mile, Sway, and Time Waits for No One?

Or Fool to Cry? There's also Worried About You from Tattoo You.

2000 Lightyears from Home could be considered a psychedelic epic.

Midnight Rambler could be considered an epic rocker....

The guitarists who auditioned for the lead guitarists spot and played during the Black and Blue sessions were:

Steve Marriott

Harvey Mandel

Wayne Perkins

Peter Frampton

How do you think the Stones would've sounded had they picked any one of these guys instead of Ron Wood?

I don't think Keith was at all threatened by Taylor because Taylors thing weren't his. Keith's the roll, Keiths a rhythm man, what Taylor did is something laid on top of Keiths work so it's hardly any threat to him...but Jones? Pulling the band in a different direction? Now there's a threat.

As far as what any of them was really like or the whys and wherefore's of any ousting, i dunno man, i was just extemporising more than anything.

Brian was into the blues but, like you were saying about the instruments y'know, the "did it, done it" thing, i think it was the same with him and blues although who knows y'know, the guy died before he could venture out fully, let alone come back back to home (the blues). And i certainly don't think Ronnie Wood is meh.

I was hoping we could bring this discussion discussing the greatness of Brian Jones back....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERaySqrYbUs

Some excerpts from the A Degree of Murder soundtrack he composed. Jimmy Page plays on it as well, but Brian composed the music. The dialogue and sounds from the film are on top of the music because this is a direct rip from the film; The soundtrack was never released officially and the master tapes of it have been lost or destroyed, thus making any future release of it impossible.

What kind of production techniques/sound do these specific Stones songs use?

Like the mixing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wATwLlDlnh0

I ask cause I wanna start a band and achieve a similar sort of sound

No!

It's the best part of the song. It's phenomenal, I get goosebumps everytime I hear "Thank lord almighty, we are free at last!" and Axl comes back for another "I won't be told anymore..."

Yeah but it's kind of like Axl's comparing his plight--Losing Slash--to MLK Jr's and the black race's plight in the 1960s. It's kind of insulting, because Axl's troubles were NOWHERE near that of Kings and the civil rights marchers. Axl lost a lead guitarist. King lost his life and his followers had dogs sicked on them, firehoses put full blast on them.

It kind of diminishes the Civil Rights movement by a rockstar comparing his troubles (many of which were self induced) to the troubles the black race faced. Axl takes music way too seriously. He should try to be more like Mick Jagger.

Is anybody else reminded of all the actors who've played James Bond when they think of GNR lead guitarists?

Slash

The original classic lead guitarist of GNR. He's definitely the Sean Connery of the lot. Played on their biggest albums and will always be the definitive GNR guitarist. Like Connery in Highlander, The Untouchables or Indiana Jones: Slash has found success outside GNR in his work with Velvet Revolver, Michael Jackson and Lenny Kravitz. No matter what he does though, the public will always see him as the lead guitarist of GNR; just like how Connery will always be seen as being James Bond.

You forgot one thing; technically inferior to the new guy.

Who would be the Brosnan? Looks good on paper, but just ends in disappointment.

DJ would be Brosnan. Brosnan tried to be in essence a modern version of Connery in style and attitude...DJ acts and dresses (top hat and cigarette) like he's Slash, Jr.

Is anybody else reminded of all the actors who've played James Bond when they think of GNR lead guitarists?

Slash

The original classic lead guitarist of GNR. He's definitely the Sean Connery of the lot. Played on their biggest albums and will always be the definitive GNR guitarist. Like Connery in Highlander, The Untouchables or Indiana Jones: Slash has found success outside GNR in his work with Velvet Revolver, Michael Jackson and Lenny Kravitz. No matter what he does though, the public will always see him as the lead guitarist of GNR; just like how Connery will always be seen as being James Bond.

Buckethead

The enigma. He's the George Lazenby of GNR guitarists. Didn't stick around very long, but made a real impact with his work on Chinese Democracy. Very much like the impact Lazenby had on On Her Majesty's Secret Service. A small minority of die hard fans even consider him to be the best GNR guitarist ever. He was the first GNR guitarist to wear a bucket on his head, while Lazenby was the first James Bond to wear a kilt.

Robin Finck

The Roger Moore of GNR. Was known to the public as the guitar player in NIN before he ever joined GNR. Just as Roger Moore was known to the public as The Saint on British television before he ever played Bond. Robin, like Moore, brought a different style to the role of GNR's lead guitarist: choppy, and some would say sloppy, but original nonetheless. He also held the role for a long period of time, just like Moore who portrayed Bond from the early 70's to the mid 80's.

Richard Fortus

Technically he's classified as the rhythm player of the band, but he does play his fair share of leads live. He's also been known to play the James Bond theme song during his solo spot at Guns shows.

DJ Ashba and Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal

The whippersnappers of GNR lead guitar. Have yet to write with Guns so it is unknown which Bond actors they'll best match up with. No doubt in my mind that a comparison will arise at some point down the road though.

I'd class Fortus as Timothy Dalton. The quiet, reserved Bond. The shady background man.

and DJ Ashba as Pierce Brosnan. Brosnan tried to emulate a mix of Connery and Moore; Ashba tries to emulate a mix of Slash and Finck.

BBF is David Niven, perhaps?

Lazenby is the most hated bond here.

which is too bad, because his movie had Diana Rigg

Yeah but from a Bond fan perspective we went from Connery...to this weird guy named George...and then back to Connery.

My two favorite Bonds are Connery and Moore, with Dalton following them. Both of them are utterly original in their own takes on the character.

Brosnan tried to be a '90s version of Connery, and then became Moore in his last movie, and Craig is just an amped up version of Dalton.

There should be a subforum just for wasted and Randy. Two best posters on mygnr.

Does anyone find the vocal montage of MLK, Cool Hand Luke and a whole bunch of other people and movies a bit much? The song is a very strong song as is, so I don't see why all of that stuff needed to be added, it just feels like it's hitting you over the head with the song's already clear and simple message.

Do you think Axl could do a good version of Whole Lotta Love?

I hear Bumble's looking for a new gig...

hit him up on twitter. you never know **shrugs**

I'm not into shredding or guitar wankery.

Is this chronologically correct?

In 2000, Sean Bevan quit trying to produce Chinese Democracy. Interscope got Axl to agree on Roy Thomas Baker, who had produced Queen's major albums. Baker had Guns rerecord everything of any significance with a new drummer, Brian Mantia, formerly of Primus. Then Axl hired Buckethead, the shy, virtuoso metal guitarist who appeared in public wearing a plastic mask and a commercial fried chicken bucket on his head. Axl had this version of Guns N' Roses re-record the tracks they had done for producer Baker.

No, Bucket was hired Christmas 1999. Axl had been courting him for some time to join Guns, and gave him a rare Leatherface doll which Bucket had wanted badly that Christmas Eve, which sealed the deal.

Baker came on board in 2000 or 2001 yes, but he didn't last long from what I've heard.

Timeline of producers:

1996-early 1997: Mike Clink works with the early concepts of what would eventually become CD

February-April/May 1997: Moby works with the band as producer (he stayed on board for around 6 months indirectly)

1997-1998: Steve Lillywite, Scott Litt, Mark Bell, Jay Baumgardner and Robbie Jacobs are all considered but either are rejected or turn down the offer.

Spring-September 1998: Youth and Critter work as co-producers on CD. Youth stays on a few months and gets Axl to sing again (Axl hadn't sung in 18 months prior). Critter leaves very rapidly, frustrated. Youth leaves or is quit after a few months as well after he asks Axl to focus; Axl feels Youth is pushing him too fast.

September 1998: Sean Beavan is hired, and remains the producer for the next two years, quitting in Spring 2000 over frustration with the lack of progress.

I said "could" have done. It's very hypothetical, as in it's just a scenario I made up, I could see it happening if Izzy stayed and wrote his off the cuff songs. Slash and Axl weren't really communicating enough to do huge epics so Slash would just play funky like he did with Lenny Kravitz and Axl would mail in a huge ballad which would be great by default. There'd be a reggae cover knocking about. Really take a Izzy Stradlin album and have Guns do that. It could have happened in another life. If Izzy had stayed in and they'd done that Snakepit record as Guns and just rolled on from there not giving a fuck. This completely factoring out the Rose factor. Axl would have be getting laid by some hot french supermodel for 10 years for it to happen. in sucking and not being together they may have made a gem like Black n Blue.

This almost happened in 1995. Duff called up Izzy as Guns was having trouble, and he and Izzy wrote 10 songs in the space of a week. He also worked with Slash and the other guys, but didn't fully come back into the band in 1995 because he didn't want to deal with Axl. Axl took one of those Duff-Izzy songs from 1995, called Down by the Ocean, and may use it in the future. He mentioned it here.

I knew it!! I fucking KNEW you'd bring up Mick Taylor! I actually wanted to add "cue Miser with a Mick Taylor mention" at the end of my post! You've got an unhealthy obsession with that guy, you know that?

He's my guitar idol, man. He's the man who made the Stone in their peak period. He's the cock of the walk, babe.