Bobbo

I just like the fact that credit's being given where credit's due.

Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, Matt, and Dizzy are the only ones from any GNR lineup getting inducted. It has been officially confirmed.

https://twitter.com/#!/futurerocklgnds/status/144807392834617345

Been confirmed that the only members getting inducted are Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, Matt, and Dizzy.

Congrats guys, well deserved.

https://twitter.com/#!/futurerocklgnds/status/144807392834617345

just the same as it's sad to hear Slash's solos butchered by any of Axl's guys.

You haven't been to a GNR show have you? They play them 100 times better than Slash

I'm suprised you ever grew to like GnR. Or maybe you hate AFD/UYI/LIES/SI/LIVE ERA since the guitar work, drum work, bass work sucks so bad!

Never said the music was bad...it's just certain former members lack the skills to play it properly live. GNR 2011 plays the songs the way they should be played and even add their own little touch and groove to the music.

That was also at a time where most of the members were at their peak of drug and alcohol addictions. And even then they still played well for their conditions.

Now that they're all clean, they're better live musicians than they have ever been.

I've already made arrangements. Obviously haven't bought tickets yet, but me and my buddy already got a game plan.

I know it might be "risky", as there's no guarantees of how things are going to go down. But if Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, and maybe even Matt and Dizzy are all up on stage together, I wanna see it in person. And I'm a big Chili Peppers fan too, so that's a plus as well.

Anybody else planning to go?

I just hope they don't keep us guessing until the day of what they're gonna do, and who's coming.

I'm currently in the process of making plans with my buddy to go to this ceremony. I can't fucking wait.

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

:sigh: Always have to find a way to discredit Axl and the current line-up.

Don't you have a hobby? Candy Lane? barbie dolls?

GNR has worked and deserve it undoubtedly,without any snarky remarks from some 14 year old,who has done nothing with his life except Bitch incessantly :xmasschef2:

That wasn't even an attempt to discredit the nu band gramps. Adjust your reading glasses. Just fact, and how I can kinda feel Axl on his hesitation about attending. All this attention and publicity, and it wouldn't even be about who's currently in the band known as "Guns N Roses" besides Axl, and maybe Dizzy. And it will certainly be more attention and coverage than the Nu band has ever gotten throughout the years. That's probably gotta urk him a little.

Awww,you lose again,I have contact lenses.

You "feel" Axl?? A poster or an action doll? That is disturbing

Last question,BoBo is "URK" a slang term for Urkel?

I'm heading to GNR!! Nothing can spoil my world,not even this shitty rental from the airport. :xmassrudolph:

You can nitpick my post all you want, but it just shows how pathetic you are for having to get petty instead of actually trying to dispute my point. You're so weak and stumped. It's so funny how it shows through your posts.

BRILLIANT BOBO!! (Golf clap) you are amusing,please post more to keep my happy ass awake!! Okay "URK"?

Nah, no need to play this petty back and forth.

Today's too great of a day. I personally can't wait until Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, and maybe Matt and Dizzy get the recognition and respect they deserve for their contributions to Guns N Roses. And that's all I really care about.

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

:sigh: Always have to find a way to discredit Axl and the current line-up.

Don't you have a hobby? Candy Lane? barbie dolls?

GNR has worked and deserve it undoubtedly,without any snarky remarks from some 14 year old,who has done nothing with his life except Bitch incessantly :xmasschef2:

That wasn't even an attempt to discredit the nu band gramps. Adjust your reading glasses. Just fact, and how I can kinda feel Axl on his hesitation about attending. All this attention and publicity, and it wouldn't even be about who's currently in the band known as "Guns N Roses" besides Axl, and maybe Dizzy. And it will certainly be more attention and coverage than the Nu band has ever gotten throughout the years. That's probably gotta urk him a little.

Awww,you lose again,I have contact lenses.

You "feel" Axl?? A poster or an action doll? That is disturbing

Last question,BoBo is "URK" a slang term for Urkel?

I'm heading to GNR!! Nothing can spoil my world,not even this shitty rental from the airport. :xmassrudolph:

You can nitpick my post all you want, but it just shows how pathetic you are for having to get petty instead of actually trying to dispute my point. You're so weak and stumped. It's so funny how it shows through your posts.

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

:sigh: Always have to find a way to discredit Axl and the current line-up.

Don't you have a hobby? Candy Lane? barbie dolls?

GNR has worked and deserve it undoubtedly,without any snarky remarks from some 14 year old,who has done nothing with his life except Bitch incessantly :xmasschef2:

That wasn't even an attempt to discredit the nu band gramps. Adjust your reading glasses. Just fact, and how I can kinda feel about Axl's hesitation about attending. All this attention and publicity, and it wouldn't even be about who's currently in the band known as "Guns N Roses" besides Axl. And it will certainly be more attention that the Nu band has ever gotten throughout the years. That's probably gotta urk him a little.

I don't see how you can possibly come to that conclusion when Axl has spent most of the last 20 years trying to avoid attention. I would be more surprised if he attended this induction than if he skips it and doesn't give it any attention at all.

The 14 million dollars and countless years spent on CD and the ten year tour that followed met Axl probably wanted the nu band to make an impression somehow.

And now all the attention for the first half of 2012 will specifically be focused on the classic band.

And all of the interviews and publicity Axl participated in during that whole time span led you to believe that Axl cared about the press? It must have been that bitchslap to that cameraman right? The 14 million dollars weren't his so I have no idea how that is relevant to anything. I really don't understand your logic whatsoever.

Of course you don't.

The 14 million dollars wasn't his, but he spent all that money for the record, and spent all that time working perfecting the record. The label actually did cut funding eventually, and then he had to start self financing it. I personally think he had a weird logic when it came to the press, as in he wanted the music to blow people away all on it's own. Which is why I think he took so long to finish it.

Now all the attention is focused on the old band. Even if Axl doesn't show up, the old band will still get a ton of mainstream attention and recognition than the current incarnation has ever gotten.

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

:sigh: Always have to find a way to discredit Axl and the current line-up.

Don't you have a hobby? Candy Lane? barbie dolls?

GNR has worked and deserve it undoubtedly,without any snarky remarks from some 14 year old,who has done nothing with his life except Bitch incessantly :xmasschef2:

That wasn't even an attempt to discredit the nu band gramps. Adjust your reading glasses. Just fact, and how I can kinda feel about Axl's hesitation about attending. All this attention and publicity, and it wouldn't even be about who's currently in the band known as "Guns N Roses" besides Axl. And it will certainly be more attention that the Nu band has ever gotten throughout the years. That's probably gotta urk him a little.

I don't see how you can possibly come to that conclusion when Axl has spent most of the last 20 years trying to avoid attention. I would be more surprised if he attended this induction than if he skips it and doesn't give it any attention at all.

The 14 million dollars and countless years spent on CD and the ten year tour that followed meant Axl probably wanted the nu band to make an impression somehow.

And now all the attention for the first half of 2012 will specifically be focused on the classic band, and just on the possibility they'll play again. LOL.

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

:sigh: Always have to find a way to discredit Axl and the current line-up.

Don't you have a hobby? Candy Lane? barbie dolls?

GNR has worked and deserve it undoubtedly,without any snarky remarks from some 14 year old,who has done nothing with his life except Bitch incessantly :xmasschef2:

That wasn't even an attempt to discredit the nu band gramps. Adjust your reading glasses. Just fact, and how I can kinda feel Axl on his hesitation about attending. All this attention and publicity, and it wouldn't even be about who's currently in the band known as "Guns N Roses" besides Axl, and maybe Dizzy. And it will certainly be more attention and coverage than the Nu band has ever gotten throughout the years. That's probably gotta urk him a little.

Is anyone on here gonna go to the induction ceremony? I think I'm gonna do it this year...

I want to so bad. The driving distance is extremely reasonable, the tickets aren't THAT expensive, but there's one problem - April is exam time for me, and with no idea of knowing when my exams will fall, I can't do it.

I can't do it just yet, anyways...

How do I go about getting tickets? Are they on sale now? How much are they?

http://rockhall.com/event/2012-inductions/

Holy shit. I'm definitely going to this. Without a doubt.

Is anyone on here gonna go to the induction ceremony? I think I'm gonna do it this year...

I want to so bad. The driving distance is extremely reasonable, the tickets aren't THAT expensive, but there's one problem - April is exam time for me, and with no idea of knowing when my exams will fall, I can't do it.

I can't do it just yet, anyways...

How do I go about getting tickets? Are they on sale now? How much are they?

I do understand Axl's frustration in a way.

Gotta sucks knowing whether he attends the event or not, that the original band being there representing "Guns N Roses" will get more attention, positive publicity, and media coverage than Axl's gotten in the past 15 years with Nu Guns...

I hope they all be open about what's gonna happen in April ahead of time, including Axl. If he doesn't wanna go, fine, but don't make us wait til the day of to find out. I hope they figure out some kind of game plan within the next couple months and let the fans know. I REALLY hope Axl can do this solid for this fans.

I'd really like to go to this, but I'm not gonna make the effort if it's just Axl and Nu Guns, or Slash and the others with Myles fronting.

But saying "they just got lucky" is your perception of things. Not fact.

They contributed to hits. Material that the band will forever be known for.

It doesn't matter what they played on. They didn't make the band a success. Only the people that took the band to the top should go in, not the people that were hired after they were already there.

But that's not how it works when deciding who's eligible.

As long as the people who did bring the band from rags to riches gets in, I don't see the problem with letting Matt and Dizzy in either. No they might not have been there since day one, but their contributions were on songs that were hits. They wrote and recorded their parts. They earned it.

How are you deciding who's eligible? And even if they are eligible, they don't deserve it. People riding other people's coattails shouldn't get the recognition. I like Ron more than any guitarist the band has ever had, but it would piss me off if he got in. Even if they had ten more albums that eclipsed anything before it.

I'm not deciding anything. The RNRHOF does that, and I've already told you how they go about doing it based on what was told.

You see it as "people riding other people's coattails". I see it as two dudes who wrote and recorded parts of songs that became huge. They should get some recognition for their time. And I'm betting they probably will.

But saying "they just got lucky" is your perception of things. Not fact.

They contributed to hits. Material that the band will forever be known for.

It doesn't matter what they played on. They didn't make the band a success. Only the people that took the band to the top should go in, not the people that were hired after they were already there.

But that's not how it works when deciding who's eligible.

As long as the people who did bring the band from rags to riches gets in, I don't see the problem with letting Matt and Dizzy in too. No they might not have been there since day one, but their contributions were on songs that were a very important part of the catalogue. They wrote and recorded their parts. They earned it.

But saying "they just got lucky" is your perception of things. Not fact.

They contributed to hits. Material that the band will forever be known for. The rest is all opinion.

Ermm...maybe. But Matt was that somebody on the drums, and Dizzy was that other somebody on the keyboards. I agree that some of the anticipation was due to Appetite, but it wouldn't make sense that the albums weren't successes in their own right if the songs are still constantly played on the radio decades later. Had it just been the flavor of the week, we wouldn't still be hearing those songs in rotation. It doesn't matter if their contributions were liked by you or not. The point is, and the only point that matters for them to eligible is that their contributions were on those songs. Some of those songs were hits, and they were official members at that point. Doesn't matter if you consider them to be good or not, their contributions were part of the hits. Therefore, they deserve to get in. It's that simple.

All of the anticipation was due to Appetite and Lies. Guns N' Roses were the biggest band on the planet and nothing Matt or Dizzy did would have changed that. I don't think you understand how big GN'R actually was. If they had done it with no drums and keyboards, it would have started a trend of bands not using drums and keyboards. There aren't many bands that can claim to have reached the level that they did. I know that it was Matt and Dizzy, but Matt and Dizzy were just lucky to be along for the ride.

I'm not underestimating anything. But the Illusions were more than just a fad and and the bastard child of a trend, for whatever reason you wanna think of. Had they been real stinkers, and only sold because of the success of the previous records, we wouldn't continually hear those songs all the time on the radio. It would just be buried.

Maybe Matt and Dizzy were just lucky, I've really never disputed you on that aspect of it. But the point remains they played on songs that were hits, and again, according to what was said, that makes them eligible.

Everyone who's ever been a member of the band is eligible, that doesn't mean that they should be included.

That's because nothing from Chinese Democracy was a hit, I wouldn't really call it a time of commercial and critical success. Not to sound blunt...

Matt and Dizzy had contributions on songs that were popular and significant hits. Nothing really significant came out of Chinese Democracy, material wise.

That doesn't make a difference at all, if Axl actually does start promoting CD with videos and a re-release, there are quite a few songs that could become hits. That still wouldn't make it right for anyone other than the original 5 to join in my opinion.

Great, that's your stance on it and you're entitled to it. If CD material became significant enough...that'd be interesting...lol. The point is, it wasn't and it's not.

I still stand by my opinion that Matt and Dizzy should be allowed in with the original 5 though.

And I stand by mine that they shouldn't. It doesn't have anything to do with talent or what they did, it's that they made no contribution to the success of the band. If you want to reward luck, that's up to you. I'll stick with rewarding the people that earned it.

What they played on were hits though and that's what made them eligible. All I'm saying is that they were apart of the band. Whether you liked them or their parts is entirely up to you. It's subjective. It's opinion. Not fact. There's people that like Sorum's drums, and what Dizzy added. They played. What they played on became legendary, and therefore, they earned it.

Ermm...maybe. But Matt was that somebody on the drums, and Dizzy was that other somebody on the keyboards. I agree that some of the anticipation was due to Appetite, but it wouldn't make sense that the albums weren't successes in their own right if the songs are still constantly played on the radio decades later. Had it just been the flavor of the week, we wouldn't still be hearing those songs in rotation. It doesn't matter if their contributions were liked by you or not. The point is, and the only point that matters for them to eligible is that their contributions were on those songs. Some of those songs were hits, and they were official members at that point. Doesn't matter if you consider them to be good or not, their contributions were part of the hits. Therefore, they deserve to get in. It's that simple.

All of the anticipation was due to Appetite and Lies. Guns N' Roses were the biggest band on the planet and nothing Matt or Dizzy did would have changed that. I don't think you understand how big GN'R actually was. If they had done it with no drums and keyboards, it would have started a trend of bands not using drums and keyboards. There aren't many bands that can claim to have reached the level that they did. I know that it was Matt and Dizzy, but Matt and Dizzy were just lucky to be along for the ride.

I'm not underestimating anything. But the Illusions were more than just a fad and and the bastard child of a trend, for whatever reason you wanna think of. Had they been real stinkers, and only sold because of the success of the previous records, we wouldn't continually hear those songs all the time on the radio. It would just be buried.

Maybe Matt and Dizzy were just lucky, I've really never disputed you on that aspect of it. But the point remains they played on songs that were hits, and again, according to what was said, that makes them eligible.

Everyone who's ever been a member of the band is eligible, that doesn't mean that they should be included.

That's because nothing from Chinese Democracy was a hit, I wouldn't really call it a time of commercial and critical success. Not to sound blunt...

Matt and Dizzy had contributions on songs that were popular and significant hits. Nothing really significant came out of Chinese Democracy, material wise.

That doesn't make a difference at all, if Axl actually does start promoting CD with videos and a re-release, there are quite a few songs that could become hits. That still wouldn't make it right for anyone other than the original 5 to join in my opinion.

Great, that's your stance on it and you're entitled to it. If CD material became significant enough...that'd be interesting...lol. The point is, it wasn't and it's not.

I still stand by my opinion that Matt and Dizzy should be allowed in with the original 5 though.

Ermm...maybe. But Matt was that somebody on the drums, and Dizzy was that other somebody on the keyboards. I agree that some of the anticipation was due to Appetite, but it wouldn't make sense that the albums weren't successes in their own right if the songs are still constantly played on the radio decades later. Had it just been the flavor of the week, we wouldn't still be hearing those songs in rotation. It doesn't matter if their contributions were liked by you or not. The point is, and the only point that matters for them to eligible is that their contributions were on those songs. Some of those songs were hits, and they were official members at that point. Doesn't matter if you consider them to be good or not, their contributions were part of the hits. Therefore, they deserve to get in. It's that simple.

All of the anticipation was due to Appetite and Lies. Guns N' Roses were the biggest band on the planet and nothing Matt or Dizzy did would have changed that. I don't think you understand how big GN'R actually was. If they had done it with no drums and keyboards, it would have started a trend of bands not using drums and keyboards. There aren't many bands that can claim to have reached the level that they did. I know that it was Matt and Dizzy, but Matt and Dizzy were just lucky to be along for the ride.

I'm not underestimating anything. But the Illusions were more than just a fad and and the bastard child of a trend, for whatever reason you wanna think of. Had they been real stinkers, and only sold because of the success of the previous records, we wouldn't continually hear those songs all the time on the radio. It would just be buried.

Maybe Matt and Dizzy were just lucky, I've really never disputed you on that aspect of it. But the point remains they played on songs that were hits, and again, according to what was said, that makes them eligible.

Everyone who's ever been a member of the band is eligible, that doesn't mean that they should be included.

That's because nothing from Chinese Democracy was a hit, I wouldn't really call it a time of commercial and critical success. Not to be blunt but...

Matt and Dizzy had contributions on songs that were popular and significant hits that the band will always be remembered for. Nothing really significant came out of Chinese Democracy, material wise.

Ermm...maybe. But Matt was that somebody on the drums, and Dizzy was that other somebody on the keyboards. I agree that some of the anticipation was due to Appetite, but it wouldn't make sense that the albums weren't successes in their own right if the songs are still constantly played on the radio decades later. Had it just been the flavor of the week, we wouldn't still be hearing those songs in rotation. It doesn't matter if their contributions were liked by you or not. The point is, and the only point that matters for them to eligible is that their contributions were on those songs. Some of those songs were hits, and they were official members at that point. Doesn't matter if you consider them to be good or not, their contributions were part of the hits. Therefore, they deserve to get in. It's that simple.

All of the anticipation was due to Appetite and Lies. Guns N' Roses were the biggest band on the planet and nothing Matt or Dizzy did would have changed that. I don't think you understand how big GN'R actually was. If they had done it with no drums and keyboards, it would have started a trend of bands not using drums and keyboards. There aren't many bands that can claim to have reached the level that they did. I know that it was Matt and Dizzy, but Matt and Dizzy were just lucky to be along for the ride.

I'm not underestimating anything. But the Illusions were more than just a fad and and the bastard child of a trend, for whatever reason you wanna think of. Had they been real stinkers, and only sold because of the success of the previous records, we wouldn't continually hear those songs all the time on the radio after the fact. It would just be buried.

Maybe Matt and Dizzy were just lucky, as I don't particularly care for Dizzy at all. But the point remains they played on songs that were hits, and again, according to what was said, that makes them eligible. Fair is fair.

They might have had a great jump start because of Appetite, but they ended up having a significance of their own right. Like I said, radio stations wouldn't still be playing those songs two decades later had they just fallen off Appetite's back end of success. And again, Dizzy AND Sorum were apart of some of the important pieces, whether you liked what they brought to the table or not. It doesn't change the fact.

The fact is Matt and Dizzy were completely irrelevant. Neither one of them contributed any writing to the band. They made no decisions either, the songs were there without them. I don't see how you don't understand this.

I tried to compromise, but fuck it, the offer is off the table. Neither one of them goes in. Neither one deserves to go in either.

But they brought their pieces to the table. And some of those pieces ended up being on hits when they were in the band. Hits=success. Critics liked it. Under that, they should be inducted. Dizzy added some of his keyboard parts, Matt with the drum roll to You Could Be Mine, where are you getting that they didn't write anything? Maybe shit you don't find significant, and again, that's cool, you're entitled to an opinion. But they contributed to the important stuff. Their playing is mostly stuff they wrote. Their contributions. Therefore, they're a part of it. That's fact. I don't get why you don't get that.

We have differing views on this and that's just that.

These people deserve to go in too then. They contributed to the Illusions.

Johann Langlie – drums, keyboard and sound effects on track 14

The Waters – backing vocals on track 4

Howard Teman – piano on track 10

Shannon Hoon – backing vocals on track 13

Shannon Hoon – backing vocals on tracks 3, 10 and 11; back up vocals on track 4 and 6

Johann Langlie – programming on tracks 3, 10 and 12; sound effects on track 16

Michael Monroe – harmonica and saxophone on track 7

Reba Shaw – backing vocals on track 10

Stuart Bailey – backing vocals on track 10

Jon Thautwein – horn on track 3

Matthew McKagan – horn on track 3

Rachel West – horn on track 3

Robert Clark – horn on track 3

Tim Doyle – tambourine on track 6

Alice Cooper – lead vocals on track 11

West Arkeen – acoustic guitar on track 11

Bruce Foster – sound effects on track 16

You're still missing the point. Matt and Dizzy were official members. Key thing there. And, yet again, according to what we were told on here members who were apart of the band at the time of critical and commercial success gets in.

I'm not missing any point. I just don't agree that you have one. The success would have been there no matter who played drums. They could have done these songs with no drums and no keyboards and the Illusions would have been successful. Everybody was waiting for a new album at that time. CDs actually sold back then, there were no MP3s. Just because they played on something does not mean that they had an effect on its success.

Ermm...maybe. But Matt was that somebody on the drums, and Dizzy was that other somebody on the keyboards. I agree that some of the anticipation was due to Appetite, but it wouldn't make sense that the albums weren't successes in their own right if the songs are still constantly played on the radio decades later. Had it just been the flavor of the week, we wouldn't still be hearing those songs in rotation. It doesn't matter if their contributions were liked by you or not. The point is, and the only point that matters for them to eligible is that their contributions were on those songs. Some of those songs were hits, and they were official members at that point. Doesn't matter if you consider them to be good or not, their contributions were part of the hits. Therefore, they deserve to get in. It's that simple.

They might have had a great jump start because of Appetite, but they ended up having a significance of their own right. Like I said, radio stations wouldn't still be playing those songs two decades later had they just fallen off Appetite's back end of success. And again, Dizzy AND Sorum were apart of some of the important pieces, whether you liked what they brought to the table or not. It doesn't change the fact.

The fact is Matt and Dizzy were completely irrelevant. Neither one of them contributed any writing to the band. They made no decisions either, the songs were there without them. I don't see how you don't understand this.

I tried to compromise, but fuck it, the offer is off the table. Neither one of them goes in. Neither one deserves to go in either.

But they brought their pieces to the table. And some of those pieces ended up being on hits when they were in the band. Hits=success. Critics liked it. Under that, they should be inducted. Dizzy added some of his keyboard parts, Matt with the drum roll to You Could Be Mine, where are you getting that they didn't write anything? Maybe shit you don't find significant, and again, that's cool, you're entitled to an opinion. But they contributed to the important stuff. Their playing is mostly stuff they wrote. Their contributions. Therefore, they're a part of it. That's fact. I don't get why you don't get that.

We have differing views on this and that's just that.

These people deserve to go in too then. They contributed to the Illusions.

Johann Langlie – drums, keyboard and sound effects on track 14

The Waters – backing vocals on track 4

Howard Teman – piano on track 10

Shannon Hoon – backing vocals on track 13

Shannon Hoon – backing vocals on tracks 3, 10 and 11; back up vocals on track 4 and 6

Johann Langlie – programming on tracks 3, 10 and 12; sound effects on track 16

Michael Monroe – harmonica and saxophone on track 7

Reba Shaw – backing vocals on track 10

Stuart Bailey – backing vocals on track 10

Jon Thautwein – horn on track 3

Matthew McKagan – horn on track 3

Rachel West – horn on track 3

Robert Clark – horn on track 3

Tim Doyle – tambourine on track 6

Alice Cooper – lead vocals on track 11

West Arkeen – acoustic guitar on track 11

Bruce Foster – sound effects on track 16

You're still missing the point. Matt and Dizzy were official members. Key thing there. And, yet again, according to what we were told on here members who were apart of the band at the time of critical and commercial success gets in.