Thelonious

One thing I have to concur with Gunzen on is that I also can name a dozen friends that purchased CD and exactly zero of them had ever even heard of any GN'R forum until I mentioned the forums to them. While ER very well may be correct in that it is not "soccer moms" who purchased the album, it wasn't solely those on this or any other GN'R forum who purchased the album, based on my experience.

Ali

In the world of academia, there is the phrase: the plural of anecdote is not data. Which basically can be interpreted to mean that because you, and another poster, know a handful of people that bought the album, and are not members of the GnR on line community, does not invalidate ER's thesis that it was, and is, the online community that held out hope, for what most others in the industry had concluded, was a clusterfuck.

FERNANDO needs to be fired. He's like Axl's bandaid. SOMEONE needs to rip it off

How old is Fernando... late 20s???

I don't know if some of you share the same opinion, but i feel this has come to a drastic ridiculous point.

Welcome to 3 years ago.

I might be mistaken but I remember you being a pretty die hard supporter of Axl and Team Brazil just a few months ago. Now you can kind of see where everyone else has been coming from eh?

I kind of left the on-line GnR community for the past couple of years, and it is amazing the number of people that used to be hard core nu-gunners see through the bullshit, now.

Other than this place, most GnR fan forums are desolate shit holes compared to what they were just a few years ago... I think most people recognize Rose for what he is-- a petulant angry man that has been sheltered to the point that he has no comprehension of reality

I see a theme in the threads which centers around blaming Beta Labeis and her family for the current state of affairs in what is commonly referred to as "Guns N Roses".

But shouldn't it be commonly accepted that Rose himself is the reason for the current state of affairs? A manager gets paid when the entity it manages is productive. So no manager gets paid unless the artist is doing something productive. I see no reason for the Labeis family to prohibit Rose from doing anything, nor do I think they are capable of prohibiting Rose from doing anything. If he wanted to release new music, he would do so and I suspect the Labeis family would help him in those efforts. If he wanted to tour more, he would do so, as he has been doing for years now. If he wanted to release a DVD from a series of shows recorded, what, nine months ago, he would do so, and they would help him do so.

Now, they may be sheltering him from outside influences, or manipulating him to do as they want, but at the end of the day, it still comes down to Rose having the final say. Rose wanted this position. He is in charge. He was in charge when Goldstein was the manager. He was in charge when Mercatus was the manager. He was in charge when Azoff was the manager. He was in charge when McGee was the manager. He hired and fired managers at his will.

All of that is to say, put the blame for where things stand where it belongs. With Rose, not with Beta Labeis. She may be the worst manager in the history of management. But the decisions that are made are made by Rose, and have been for some time. It is what he wanted. It is what he got.

Team Brazil is the Colonel Tom Parker of GN'R

Rose has surrounded himself with sycophants and yes people, that for whatever reason, refuse to allow him to see the real world-- so what we've got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we have... which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

My daughter and her friends loved the band... when they 12 fucking years old!

I find it, somewhat, astonishing that a band of talentless no-musician faces, that catered to tween girls, has been given serious consideration on a GnR fan site.

WTF is the world coming to?

... you have ALL the power to consume what you want. If you don't like it, don't purchase or support. That is where your power ends.

That is exactly what I did. I publicly declared the I wouldn't buy the piece of crap that was ChiDem, and was banned from Yarmo's place for it. So, I took what I would've spent on the band, and contributed it to Skweril's legal defense fund. Even when Best Buy was giving it away for pennies on the dollar, I still didn't bite and I still don't own it.

If you really did that Thelonious that was awesome.

Even though i bought Chinese Democracy i also contributed for Skwerl's legal defense fund.

It was discussed on SLC's forum when he did the interview with Kevin, and JB's forum when Best Buy was giving away ChiDem. It is all a matter of public record.

... you have ALL the power to consume what you want. If you don't like it, don't purchase or support. That is where your power ends.

That is exactly what I did. I publicly declared the I wouldn't buy the piece of crap that was ChiDem, and was banned from Yarmo's place for it. So, I took what I would've spent on the band, and contributed it to Skweril's legal defense fund. Even when Best Buy was giving it away for pennies on the dollar, I still didn't bite and I still don't own it.

So what's the prediction now? 2 years? 5? How long before another album is released?

It's been almost 5 years already since Chinese. Maybe another 3 or 4. And that's for the Chinese leftovers of course. Not a new album with the current line up. Bumble's beard will be totally gray by the time they'll enter a studio together, if ever.

I have thought for a while now that any new material will be released posthumously. Sucks to think that, and sucks more if true, but...

So what's the prediction now? 2 years? 5? How long before another album is released?

It's been almost 5 years already since Chinese. Maybe another 3 or 4. And that's for the Chinese leftovers of course. Not a new album with the current line up. Bumble's beard will be totally gray by the time they'll enter a studio together, if ever.

i dont think we will get another album until axl passes away and the vultures break into his vault before his body is even in the ground, for one last payday.

I didn't see your post before I wrote the above, but yeah. sad but, unfortunately, probably true.

I have a cousin whose addicted to heroin, and you can tell pretty easily. If you need to question if someone is addicted, they're probably not. Severe shortness of breath, droopy weak appearance, scabs from picking at themselves, slurred speech, no motivation, no hygiene, etc.

Your anecdote is not representative of addicts. The symptoms you describe are not from opiate intoxication or addiction. I have personally known scientists, health care workers(including doctors and nurses), legal professionals(including attorneys), business professionals, and many others.

Unless one is intimately associated opiate abuse treatment, or spent a lot of time with addicts, there is no way one could determine if someone is "using" without specific tests. One thing I know for sure- what you are describing is not a manifestation of opiate abuse.

In some of those reality cop shows the cops themselves can't determine is someone is intoxicated by, simply, looking at them, so they have them cover their eyes, and then, uncover them, quickly. The premise behind the practice is that opiate use decreases pupil size; darkness increases pupil size. If a person is not "using", and they cover their eyes, the pupils will be large when uncovered... as opposed to "pin like" if intoxicated.

He used it for a few months prior to them signing. He wasn't what one would call an addict, like say Slash or Izzy was.

He just tried it and luckily moved on.

Heroin is a very addictive drug and a few months using, even if not everyday, will lead to addiction. Granted, the withdrawal won't be as severe as someone pushing dope everday, but they will experience lethargy, runny nose, cramps, insomnia, ... ect.

But I have no ideal whether, or not, Rose was addicted. I do know that opioid addiction was not as taboo in the late '80s - early '90s as it is today. Too, heroin was much harder to find then as most production, that was previously coming from Afghanistan, had ceased due to Taliban prohibitions against the cultivation of opium poppy.

As a result, a lot of opiate use, then, was due prescription/pharmacy diversion, e,g; things like Dilaudid, MS Contin, Roxanol, Sufentanil, Fentanyl, ... ect. Keep in mind, some of those drugs are 10 to hundreds of times more potent than heroin(diacetylmorphine).

After the Soviets withdrew and the Taliban took over, heroin production took off as a means for them to make money. Afghanistan is/was the leading producer of heroin under the Taliban.

And to hell with pills, I agree 100%, there more dangerous than anything.

Initially yes, but as the Talibs gained control, they prohibited the growing of poppy

EDIT: to add, not a lot of heroin was coming out of Mexico in the late 80s, and what did was mostly the black tar. Re the Asian dope: a lot of that China White was actually not heroin- it was sublimaze.

Addiction is not guranteed to happen, and you can be a functioning person if you keep your heroin habit under control. Just as not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, not everyone who dopes is a dope addict.

You're confusing apples and oranges. Opioid addiction is a completely different animal than addiction to most other drugs in that the addiction is physical; not psychological(it is psychological too, but). And yes, everyone that abuses opioids, if they abuse them for a few weeks, will developed Opioid Withdrawal Syndrome.

He used it for a few months prior to them signing. He wasn't what one would call an addict, like say Slash or Izzy was.

He just tried it and luckily moved on.

Heroin is a very addictive drug and a few months using, even if not everyday, will lead to addiction. Granted, the withdrawal won't be as severe as someone pushing dope everday, but they will experience lethargy, runny nose, cramps, insomnia, ... ect.

But I have no ideal whether, or not, Rose was addicted. I do know that opioid addiction was not as taboo in the late '80s - early '90s as it is today. Too, heroin was much harder to find then as most production, that was previously coming from Afghanistan, had ceased due to Taliban prohibitions against the cultivation of opium poppy.

As a result, a lot of opiate use, then, was due prescription/pharmacy diversion, e,g; things like Dilaudid, MS Contin, Roxanol, Sufentanil, Fentanyl, ... ect. Keep in mind, some of those drugs are 10 to hundreds of times more potent than heroin(diacetylmorphine).

BBA smacks of jealousy, you're an embarrassment.

Nah, it's not jealousy; it is commitment to what used to be the greatest rock n roll band on the planet. I just wish he would start updating his Twitter regularly.

This can only mean one thing....

Chinese Democracy II starts now!

LOL

Lolrollingstone

Their lists just get shittier and shittier.

The Stones should be at the top of the list. Have you ever seen them live? I have... in 4 different decades. They, by far, put on the most entertaining show I have ever seen. And, I seen thousands of acts from AC/DC with Bon Scott to Zappa.

Geri was cool. The rest of them were awful. I remember somebody bringing Geri's pre-Spice Girls nude pictures into school. She was in this forest showing off her stuff.

pics or gtfo

NSFW

Here you go. Here too.

Diane Lane. Those romantic dramas she did with Richard Gere are not most guys cup of tea, but date night with the ol' lady, a nice dinner, the one of their movies= best sex of the year.

OP, you have presented a false dichotomy fallacy. It isn't black or white, nor A or B.

I was concerned when Adler was fired, then I started losing interest when Izzy left, and then "The Spaghetti Incident" further eroded my support. When Chicken Bucket was hired, I concluded that the franchise had become a joke.

And, disco sucked, Micheal Jackson's first albums were disco, hence, he sucked.

Accusations aside, Michael Jackson does not suck. He's probably the greatest entertainer to ever live.

That is subjective, and your opinion. Mine is different.

If you really look into it, the way MJ dealt with children was at times quite inproper. But for his benefit I want to say that he did love them, the children, endlessly. He was not a sexual monster predator who required the abuse of children to really get off. He was just a conflicted sick personality who was on some levels still a child himself, an abused child at that. That's why he felt his improper games with the children were okay - he felt like he was one of them.

If there would have been some measure and control over him, and help, MJ could have been the best thing ever for those kids involved or for any kid in fact. It's just that because MJ was the man who had the money he was also the man who had the power, so shit got out of hand because he always got his way.

You know, most child predators were abused as a child, but one can not ignore, or forgive, the actions of a predator because of the predator's past experiences. Of course, Jackson loved those kids, but adults don't love children that way.

In your post, it's like you admit that he was fondling little boys, but then dismiss it because who he was??? Think about this, once those boys reached puberty, he had nothing to do with them, and little girls were rarely welcomed into his bed chambers.

Being a MJ fan was a particularly disheartening experience...

So sad about MJ

I don't particularly believe in karma, but if I did, he got what was coming.

Why? Because his career was sabotaged by a money hungry prosecutor, who openly hated him because of his eccentric antics and race (most successful black man ever), and got slammed by media at the height of his career based on child molestation accusations (which is proven wrong on all accounts numerous times) planted and executed by said prosecutor?

Horseshit! No one planted anything, and he was not proven innocent. You see, that is not how the criminal justice system works; he was found not guilty because the prosecution didn't present their case in an effective manner-- that is an entirely different thing that being proven innocent. And most rational people realize the man was a pedophile as we were able to see evidence that wasn't submitted at trial.

And, more allegations have surfaced after his death.

And, disco sucked, Micheal Jackson's first albums were disco, hence, he sucked.

Someone mentioned Lynyrd Skynyrd up thread; yep, there are some parallels, there, e,g; the way Artimus Pyle has been treated by Rossington et al.

Van halen fans will always be miserable. Half like David Lee Roth and the other half like Sammy Hagar. It's either one or the other and they can't both be in the band.

Actually, I'm a fan of both eras, but after the way the Van Halen duo treated Anthony, I washed my hands of them and refused to attend the concerts with Van Halen's kid on bass.

Being a MJ fan was a particularly disheartening experience...

So sad about MJ

I don't particularly believe in karma, but if I did, he got what was coming.

idk, just my guess. perhaps adler sued guns n roses as a band, an enterprise, so there was no need for each member of the band to testify. so, what year was the testimony - 1991? slash is delirious, attacked by little black monsters, duff partied hard with his girlfriend linda, izzy is out or on his way out. somebody had to do it

You might be right. Axl was probably the most capable of defending the band. I don't suppose a junked up Slash would have won anyone over discussing how his equally junked up bandmate needed to be fired.

Heroin addicts can be remarkably functional as long as they get their fix, in fact, in a brightly lit room, one would be very hard pressed to determine if that person had used, or not.

Of course, the toxic psychosis associated with cocaine abuse is another beast altogether.

I only know that she did something that I feel is wrong.

...

I think she was being invasive and to far.

Here, you might find these helpful.

*sigh*

Really fucking cool...

... if you were a 13 year old girl in 1996.

Was this your polemic smackdown? Or do I have to recant my post about you staying on topic?

Hahaha, no. I am giving you the benefit of doubt; you will know when I bare my fangs.

My question to you is who is Madison?

Please have more then, she's a mod on a forum. Because if you don't know anymore then that or specifics to what happened, then we can't go any further.

I know as much as anyone else that was around when it happened. Apparently, you are new to the community, or you know that she was an admin, here, that jealously guarded her privacy.

And no dear, you don't get to shut down the discussion any more than you get to determine what is reported about Rose & Co.

Well, since you couldn't answer my one question to you. I'm done as promised.

Your getting lost in your head about how your going to try and make me look bad, not gonna happen.

Sorry M. For calling you a mod and not an admin. ( seriously!?)) WTF??? See that's what I mean, your changing topics, trying to be cute. Try to focus next time, we almost made it through a civil conversation.

Now see, there you go. Because you didn't get the answer you were looking for, you fail to appreciate my reply. This episode has become dogmatic to you in that there is no right answer except the preconceived one that is in your head.

And, "getting lost in my head" and loosing focus? Project much? Goddamn, that is rich coming from you being that, virtually, every reply from you was the same repetitious reactionary nonsense that you had already posted.

If you think that my correcting an error that you made is "changing topics", there is little hope of carrying on rational discourse... those are the vacuous arguments one would expect from an inferior intellect.