Seb91

Listen to them now and again. I enjoy them both but they're not top tier songs in my view. Think the released Absurd sounds much better than the leaks and Slash's riffs and solos mean the song has some redeeming features. I've never really understood the love for Silkworms/Absurd or really what Axl's seen in it over the years. It's always been a weird industrial curio to me. I think with a rewritten vocal melody and reworked lyrics it could have been decent. 

On the flipside, I think the 2001 version of Hard Skool sounds so much better. Find the bell to be cheesy as hell (same goes for the artwork and spelling of school in the title). Having said that, it works as a comeback song as it's very classic GN'R (indeed, it wouldn't have sounded out of place on VR's Contraband). Personally, I think marketing wise Hard Skool would have made much more sense as a first single with Absurd as a b-side as, if I'd never heard the leaks, I could have believed Hard Skool was the result of  a recent jam session between the three of them.  

3 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Josh's drumming on the Village Session recordings were sublime, I love Brain too but man Josh really knew how to drive those songs in a unique way as well.  I really wish there was an alternate late-90s universe where we got to hear a Josh, Robin, Axl combo in full

Josh is phenomenal - saw him drumming for Sting back in 2019 and he was right on the money as always. 

4 hours ago, Pele said:

Good post.

I think you're very realistic in your expectations and I've said the same for a while.

IF there are additional unheard songs, the likeliest candidates are Oklahoma (due to the supposed lyrical theme) and Elvis (due to Axl mentioning singing it).

After that, you'd suggest Tonto and Cuban Skies due to them appearing on the list but there is no evidence they are done.

My best guess is Silkworms, Perhaps, OMG, Atlas and Hardskool are done.  State of Grace was nearly completed.

Oklahoma, Quick Song, Elvis, Nothing have partial vocal.  Cuban Skies, Tonto, Quick Song have vocal melody guides.

I think Going Down will be abandoned (unfortunately).  Eye on You doesn't really count, but due to the low output, they may include it as a 'fun' closer.

Thanks! Yeah, my gut is that there's an album's worth but it isn't up to the quality of Chinese in terms of a complete album - judging from the leaks, the vast majority of the real top tier stuff from that era made it onto Chinese (Better, Catcher, There Was a Time, Sorry, IRS, Madagascar, Prostitute). From the leaks the best sounding songs (in my opinion anyway) are Oklahoma and Elvis. Elvis sounds phenomenal - add some Axl vocals on top and that's an instant epic. It'd still probably be a great record though - Slash's input actually made Silkworms salvageable (always just sounded like a weird industrial curio to me) so I'd love to see what magic he and Duff could work with other stuff. I agree Going Down's consigned for the vault forevermore and if it isn't then it's a sign the well is dry.  

It does appear that one constant barrier has always been Axl's procrastination re writing lyrics/vocal melodies. Even if there aren't a ton of tracks with finished vocals/melodies/lyrics, given many of the instrumentals seem done all that would be needed are some lyrics/melodies and that's a ton of material good to go with minimal input. He could always bring in a lyricist if he was stuck for ideas. I feel the bottom line is that Axl really isn't that engaged with making new music (and music in general given the first date of a tour is always rough) and hasn't been for a pretty long time. There's never been a shortage of material given the amount of writers he's had in the band over the years (post-2002: Bucket, Tommy, Ron, DJ). Given that Tommy, Ron and DJ were lyricists, Axl wouldn't have even needed to have written anything for the 2009-14 band to put out an album of completely original stuff. I'm also sure that Slash and Duff could come up with an album's worth of material in a relatively short amount of time. 

Yeah, The General definitely seems done. May be clutching at straws here but given that Axl said that Oklahoma had been retitled Berlin I hope that means that he'd done some work on lyrics/vocal melodies since 2001. In the chats he also said he'd sung Soul Monster/Me and My Elvis on a Christmas Eve. The fact he'd at least done a guide vocal for Quick Song means he could have fleshed it out at a later date. 

So a real best case scenario re an album seems to be (excluding Going Down):

Hard Skool, Absurd, Atlas, Perhaps, Eye on You, The General, Nothing, Quick Song, State of Grace, Berlin, Soul Monster

Eleven tracks is doable. Even if nothing came of Quick Song that's still ten.  Bit short compared to Chinese's fourteen but still marketable. Nothing in its '01 state is pure filler but I'm sure the band could flesh it out. Still, shows that he could have put have an album out between 2009 and 2014 if that stuff was done as Going Down could have been included then which brings it up to eleven-twelve songs which is a decent length. The most interesting thing about the leaks to me is that  they show that an album could have easily been put out in 2002 so I think Axl's reluctance to put stuff out in the years before 2008 wasn't due to any lack of material. 

1 hour ago, betterman said:

I cannot quite understand why so few fans like Scraped and Rhiad and the Bedouins - they are uptempo, semi-alternative cool rockers and I think they are a great addition to the album. 

The only number I tend to skip is If the world, sounds like a James Bond soundtrack - its not bad, but doesnt seem to fit with rest of the record. Nice Buckethead solo though..

I wouldn't say I dislike them - loved all the songs when they dropped but feel some of the vault songs are stronger. Having said that, I never liked Silkworms but love what Slash and Duff did to it. Also instrumentals like Me & My Elvis, Dummy and Oklahoma sound epic. Given that Shackler's and Sorry are just instrumentals in the vault stuff, I hope that there are more songs with done vocals than we know about. Some epic Slash solos on Elvis would go really well and Oklahoma sounds just like classic Guns. 

43 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Kick that ball down that road!!🤣

GNR have already done the bloody tour to test covid  and they pulled it off. The tours booked for this year are going to happen, they will of course have to follow some covid guidelines it isn't going away just yet... There's optimistic views and then there's just making excuses. Every year somebody says "I think they are waiting to put a record out because of x reason" and yet here we are.

Why I think a record isn't coming this year 1) it's GNR 2) the tour is named "We're F'n Back". Ordinarily a new album tour is named something to do with a new album... so unless the new record is called "We're F'n Back" which I don't put past GNR🤣 I highly doubt 2022 is the year... but I also wouldn't have expected 2021 to be a year where they released 2 shit singles, so I guess there's some life in the old, old dog.

I think the 2021 singles have really shown me there's no logic to anything in the GN'R camp 

Being serious, I don't think an album is coming. I think the most we can hope for is a couple of more singles when the next tour rolls around. I think the leaks have cast doubt on a full CD2 existing (not impossible considering we know stuff was recorded post-2002 but arguably unlikely) and that Axl would probably have to record vocals and write lyrics to finish off some tracks, in which case, may as well do that with Slash/Duff jams in my opinion. 

48 minutes ago, Pele said:

Yeah, We'll all have our ideas on what should have been on it - but you're right, Riad, Scraped and If The World should have been nowhere hear that album.

I think post 2002, the procrastination was simply how do I create the best out of what we have.  And members leaving gave him justification for more re-recording of the same songs.

I can see the logic in getting new members to re-record songs as obviously an important part of the nuGuns thing was setting them up as a proper lineup (which is why releasing Going Down should have been a no-brainer really) but it did slow stuff down. I think the leaks really show that the album(s) should have come up when Bucket was still in the band and that him leaving was a big loss, same goes for Robin. The problem is that by the time it came out in 2008 so many of the key contributors/writers had left by the time the record came out and the 2009 tour rolled around (same goes for the two recent songs). I think the best solution would be for there to be an archive release (sort of like the way Bob Dylan does his Bootleg Series stuff) of the 2002 stuff with just the Finck/Bucket lead work on there and for Axl/Slash/Duff to start from scratch. Will never happen of course but the mixes of many of the 2002 leaks are far better than the album that was released. 

25 minutes ago, Pele said:

I think he was frustratingly close to having a good enough album.

Let's be honest - a single album containing Chinese, Shackers, IRS, If The World, Cather, Riad and Scraped was never going to be brilliant.  There's 7 songs that are average to terrible.

Even with the existing work, he could have trimmed off Riad, Scraped, Cather and If The World, and replaced with Perhaps and HardSkool and a completed State of Grace and you have something much more enjoyable.

It would still lack 2-3 absolute killers to put it alongside Appetite and Illusions (for most), but it would have been a very good album.

 

The reality is over the 30 year period, he had a few good songs, a few more average ones and even more bad ones.  Odds are The General is average to bad.

I genuinely believe there are people who still remember those interviews where they were saying they had 70 song, and one is the sequel to Estranged, and one is the sequel to Nov Rain, and it's all a cross between Queen and Led Zep with a bit of Radiohead thrown in!!!

 

Reality was it was Silkwoms, OMG, Riad, If The World, Shackler's Revenge, IRS, Atlas Shrugged, Chinese Democracy, HardSkool, Prostitute - LOL

 

Didn't he say him and Axl wrote one together?

I loved Chinese when it came out (and still do!) so think that I'd have been even more impressed at the time had Going Down, Hard Skool and Atlas replaced Rhiad, If the World and Scraped.  I think though that the leaks show that the best songs ultimately made it onto Chinese and there wasn't a real epic alongside Better or There Was a Time  waiting in the wings. 

25 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I think we all are hard to admit that. That we are expecting something great, huge, amazing, but there's nothing.

I think what we have is what it is inside those 2019 leaks! And that's it, the rest is instrumental experimentation.

If I'm wrong I guess I'll never understand why not released, it feels like you won the lottery, but never went to the bank to cash the money, you just keep looking at the numbers!

If there's music, it does not make sense at all.

That's my gut instinct as well. The vibe from the leaks that there were a few completed songs left but not quite enough to put a new album out without some serious work explains the lack of material in the 2009-14 era to me. I think the Chinese era as a whole shows that Axl's a master procrastinator and wasn't interested in writing and recording after a certain point and so he probably wasn't motivated to start songs from scratch with the lineup to fill out an album. Plus, in terms of the songs without vocals, going back to instrumentals that were around a decade old at that point is pretty much like starting from scratch anyway. The fact that there are enough songs in the vault for the odd single now and again to act as promo for a tour and change up the setlist from time to time is probably convenient for now.  The age of some of Axl's vocal takes is telling as well. I figured his contributions from Going Down were post-2010 when the song first leaked but was really surprised they date back to 2002.  

I think if there was an epic waiting to be released, they wouldn't have rehashed Silkworms as the first single. Don't get me wrong, I love what Slash did to it but the song's not on a par with the likes of Better or Sorry. Some of the instrumentals sound amazing so I hope that some more vocals did get recorded at some point but I'm not holding out too much hope. Plus, to be blunt, so much of Bucket's solo instrumental output sounds amazing and one the big frustrations is we didn't have Axl singing on more of Bucket's stuff. 

10 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, Tommy said that they all sort of left after the Vegas shows in 2014. We know that Bumblefoot had given notice that he was quitting earlier than that, at the last SA show in 2014 (even though he didn't say anything for more than a year and continued acting like he was still in the band).

According to a quote from, iirc, September 2014, Ashba hadn't done any work on unreleased material from the CD sessions (he had only done his own material). Maybe he did something later that year, at the same time Fortus said he was working on unreleased songs, but it's not clear. In mid 2015, when Ashba announced he was quitting and also Bumblefoot's departure was officially confirmed, Fortus was quoted saying that he hadn't heard from the band in months - so no one, except maybe Pitman (?) was involved in any sessions after Dec. 2014. So, if Axl was working at that time with the prospect of releasing material, he was doing it basically on his own with Caram - and, at the same time, the negotiations for the reunion were in place.

Based on what we've known (from official sources, mostly) regarding the follow-up to CD during the NuGnR years, my take is that Axl was not interested in writing new music with the Bumblefoot/Ashba lineup (although seemingly the members were encouraged - or at least not discouraged - to write new material, maybe as a way to keep them motivated). That was either because he didn't think the songs submitted to him by Bumblefoot and Ashba were good enough or because he was focused on finishing the unfinished business of the CD material - or, most likely, it was both.

I'm kind of glad we didn't get Sixx:AM style stuff looking back. I dug that stuff at the time (I was a teenager and thought all the emo stuff was so deep in my defence ) but haven't listened to it in ages. I wouldn't be surprised if Axl thought that the band members' offerings weren't up to snuff. Thinking about it, I think it's a shame we didn't get some more collaborations between Tommy and Axl. I feel he's got the best songwriting chops out of the 2009-14 lineup and Going Down shows what his stuff can sound like rocked up a fair bit.  Lyrically and structurally it sounds like pure Tommy so a full on collaboration could have yielded great results in my opinion.

21 minutes ago, Pele said:

I think it's pretty clear what went on.

Late 90s.  They had a strong line-up.  Rose was excited and optimistic, but nervous.  They has The Blues and Madagascar and some other stuff, and instrumentals/ideas were coming from the band.

Things started taking too long.  Josh and Robin realized nothing much was happening and left. 

By 00, Robin was back, Brain was in, and they had the bones of an album.  But it was average.  It contained decent enough filler like HardSkool, Perhaps, IRS, Chinese and utter garbage like Silkworms, Riad, Catcher, Atlas.

The Elephant in the Room was this wasn't going to be the great comeback everyone had hoped, and Buckethead, Robin, Brain were probably frustrated that their instrumentals were't being completed.

Rose played the work to Bob Erzin and was told he onlt has 2-3 good songs.

Buckethead left, the 2002 tour fell apart and Rose gave up.

 

Later, he got additional musicians, got in shape, did some work 05-06, finished Better, Sorry, Shacklers and Scraped and released the record on 08.

 

The idea this guy has backup albums up his sleeve are crazy!  He's worked on the same batch of songs for 30 years, and it includes Silkworms, Scraped, OMG, Atlas, Riad, Cather!!!!!

 

Yeah I can buy that. If I'm being extremely critical I'd say that with all the songs we know about in the 'pool' as it were there was one killer single album in there by the time we get to 2006. Not that I dislike any of the songs but there could have been a fourteen track all killer, no filler album in 2006 but the fact that there are some fillery songs on the album that was released in 2008 (Rhiad, Scraped, If the World) and some stronger ones were held back (Hard Skool, Atlas Shrugged, Perhaps, Going Down, Quick Song) [all just my opinion of course] implies Axl was thinking about a follow up when Chinese was put out. What I find funny about the leaks is that one of the criticisms at the time was that a lot of Chinese 'didn't sound like Guns N' Roses' but Hard Skool, Quick Song (and arguably Going Down as well) shows they could do more classic GN'R style stuff well but left them off (assuming there is a Quick Song with vocals).   

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

From what I understand, those rumours came from certain "insiders".

For what it's worth, Fernando was asked about it when he went to the discord a couple of years ago, and he said that it never happened - and that, generally, Axl never submitted an album that was rejected by the label during the time Jimmy Iovine was in charge.

Ah! Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, it always struck me as odd that they'd reject an album. Whilst I think it's likely that there are more finished vocals than in the leaks, I wonder if there wasn't enough to release a record not long after Chinese. I think any future singles will be a good indication of that. 

11 minutes ago, Pele said:

The supposed tracklisting was shared and it could have been rejected on that basis.

If it's to be believed, it contained updated versions of This I Love, Better and ChiDem, along with a new version of Knockin on Heavens Door.  It also contained Silkwoms, OMG and Atlas Shrugged. 

So based on the above, it would have been a dreadful album.

 

It is a very interesting document though, which pre-dates the locker disks by a good few years.

The Locker Leaks confirmed that Going Down, Perhaps, Nothing, Tonto were real, and also confirmed that they had recorded KOTH.  MSL leaked an updated version of This I Love, so the list definitely has some merit.

 

Ah! I remember that rumoured tracklisting. The thing I find most interesting about the recent leaks is how far back Going Down goes as a song. Given that when it first leaked it was around the same time as Bumble's acoustic Better, I figured at the time that it was an unreleased Tommy solo song from One Man Mutiny as there was a sort of 'scrounging around for material' vibe going on (which revisiting Oh My God and Silkworms would support). I guess we'll never know really re an album. I'm inclined to think there isn't this wealth of songs which just need Slash and Duff's finishing touches but would be happy to be proven wrong.  

28 minutes ago, Pele said:

Stop listening to what these people say and trying to dissect their language! 

They are clearly briefed to keep it optimistically vague.   Keep the illusion of a normal working creative band alive whilst being non-committal on numbers of songs, song titles, potential releases etc.

As I said in my last post - Frank wasn't even allowed to confirm if he drummed on Shadow of Your Love!  He was asked directly, stuttered and said it's a question for management.

When asked about Miles, Slash told us exactly how many songs they'd done, when they were recording, and when they were releasing.

When asked about GNR, "...uuhh....all things considered...uh....we've got a few ideas....i've recorded some stuff......not sure how to physically release music......uh, not written anything new as such.....but there is a lot coming.....it's complicated"

I agree that any comments have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Just like when the Zeppelin reissues started coming out, Jimmy Page would hint at future solo projects that never happened. I don't think it's unlikely that Slash has probably worked on a fair few songs though. Whether we'll ever hear any of them remains to be seen. The promotion for the two singles has been bizarre really. I mean, I'd never have imagined in my wildest fever dreams in the 2000s that Absurd/Silkworms would be the big comeback single from a reunion 

37 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The "reunion" was initially just intended for a few shows (Coachella), but it worked so well they just added more and more shows. Or so they say. In a sense it had to be that way regardless, because they had to test the waters before committing. 

And yes, it definitely wasn't to release more music, it was to tour. Mostly for the money, I assume, but maybe also to please fans (at least I like to think so). 

But it was also a move that reduced Axl’s...freedom to operate. Reuniting with Slash is a committed step, much harder to return to a "lesser" lineup with Slash afterwards to release more music. So in a sense, after the first shows with Slash and Duff, Axl had less viable options. Fortunately, things turned out well and they - and I never thought this would happen - decided to not only release more music, but also do it with existing songs from the CD sessions. If things had gone bad, and the reunited lineup had folded quickly, it could have been the end of Guns N' Roses. 

Going back to what we talked about before, and why a follow-up didn't happen prior to the reunion. I really don't know. It's a bit of a mystery to me. And when the reunion happened, it almost looks like band members were happy to leave. I can understand Bumblefoot and DJ was okay with it, they had been in the band for 10 and 7 years with likely no writing credits. Tommy, on the other hand, must have felt disappointment that after all his loyalty and standing by Axl's side, for 20 odd years, nothing more came out of it than one CD. But he's is a good sport and gracefully stepped aside, probably having more or less given up on CD2 by then, or assuming he might get writing credit regardless. Chris, on the other hand, reacted naturally, in my opinion, being pissed off by the regression of taking Slash and Duff back and realizing with that move, the likelihood of CD2 was greatly diminished. He called it a cash grab move, if I remember correctly, and I can hardly blame him. I would probably have been pissed and disillusioned too. 

But what happened after 2009 and before 2016? Did Axl never manage to get the audiences sufficiently excited about CD to motivate him to release CD2? Was it too difficult to try to add yet another guitar track onto songs written years ago by other musicians? Was Axl burnt by the whole debacle of CD and decided to just focus on tourikg? Problems with record label that made it difficult? Did the rest of the band not fully support him in releasing the rest of the material? I hope Axl decides to discuss this at some point. 

Seconded in terms of hoping Axl discusses what happened with CD2 and the end of the 2009-2014 band at some point. I've come across an interview with The Current from 2016 in which Tommy says he left before the reunion was on the cards due to stuff in his personal life. Bumble seemed to have one foot out the door at the time as well if I remember correctly. If there is some truth to the rumour that there was album done which was rejected it would explain Axl's lack of interest in doing anything new and Bumble and Ashba's desire to move on.  The simple answer of course is that there was no rejected album and Axl just didn't have any interest in putting anything new out. (Seen your recent post - yeah, nothing seems to support a  label rejection in interviews at the time).

It's funny, whilst I think it's such a shame that there was so much wasted potential with all of the various nuGuns lineups and the reunion seemed like a step backward (and indeed the lack of Matt and Izzy made it feel less of a full reunion), it was a real shot in the arm that GN'R needed (as it seems Axl was a few men down from the lineup) and as new GN'R music with Slash and Duff will always be more appealing to promotors/labels etc. it's weird to think that a reunion was the best way to get the Chinese leftovers out. 

I do think that evidently Axl hasn't had much interest in writing and recording for years and putting out old songs from the vault with reworked parts probably works for all involved as it isn't as labour intensive as writing a new album from scratch. I'd love to see them get in a room and jam together like Sabbath did for 13 but can't see it happening really.  

6 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I've just had a bit of a realisation that the plan is probably exactly as it was circa 2011.

Cd2 is the same crop of tracks it always was, only instead of Bumble and Ashba overdubs they were replaced with Slash and Duff. 

Even the singles are being released in the same order, Axl said they wanted Silkworms out soon in late 2013 didn't he. Maybe Hard Skool was planned as the second. 

All speculation of course but tbh I really don't think anything has changed. I think Cd2 is the same as it always was going to be, finished in 2015 with Carem then overdubbed with Slash and Duff. 

I've got a feeling that's probably bang on. Would link to Slash's comments about adding guitar to loads of tracks. Weren't there rumours way back (i.e. pre-reunion) of CD2 being offered to the record company and rejected which would imply a finished album?

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is absolutely not implausible that DJ was hired in 2009 for his song-writing capacity. Many fans would likely agree that is the most appealing explanation. And DJ himself, at some point, suggested that to be the case. Still, right after the release of Chinese Democracy, Axl's focus was on the planned "double" album, so it seems unlikely that just a few months later, Axl had discarded that idea and decided to go for writing a new album from the bottoms-up. A more likely explanation, in my opinion, is that Axl thought about the future and considered DJ as an asset for song-writing later on. Additionally, it was always important to Axl that all players were represented on an album, and he possibly thought it would be easier to include DJ somehow based on DJ's proven track-record of writing music.

Interestingly, by 2010-2011 it is harder to assess what Axl's plans were. His radio silence means we don't know much what his plans were. DJ would frequently talk about the music Axl had that wasn't recorded, and how he looked forward to writing with Axl. DJ started writing (presumably on his own), resulting in Ballad Of Death and Mi Amor, but it doesn't seem like Axl wanted to work with this. Does this mean he still wanted the next record to just be material from the CD sessions? Who knows?

As for how much material existed after the release of CD: likely at least one complete record of material (confirmed by multiple sources), but not entirely finished. Tommy would say that at least some songs missed vocals and final mixing. But Tommy hadn't heard the songs since the recording sessions prior to the release of CD and himself concluded that Axl might have finished these. So the material seems to have been there. At least it would be less work to finish them than to write new songs.

Another thing that can be gleaned from contemporary interviews, is that there was significant push to write new songs from within the band. New guys without writing credits, Bumblefoot and DJ, obviously wanted the band to focus on new music rather than old material where at best they could hope to have some parts tacked on. Especially Bumblefoot was really vocal about this in interviews. Whether this influenced Axl or not, is impossible to say, but in late 2011 it seems like the decision had been made to convene after touring to write. Whether that implies entirely new songs, re-write existing material, or just write a couple new songs so DJ and Bumbles got writing credit, is unknown to me. 

Yeah, the vibe I got back then from interviews was that it was going to be the second volume of Chinese and then some new material. Which, thinking about it is still where we are now. Has it ever been properly confirmed how the reunion came about and the other members left? Obviously Duff filled in for Tommy during the 'Mats stuff (that 'Mats reunion tour was awesome!) but in interviews it seems like he made the decision to leave rather than it being a temporary thing. Ashba also said he was offered a role in the Slash and Duff era. It seems we're basically in the same situation pre-reunion - roughly an album's worth of CD stuff with redone parts by the current lineup and hope for some new material. 

The vibe I got back when the reunion was announced was that it was more of a continuation than a complete starting over. I'm glad the CD stuff hasn't been thrown out. Judging from interviews over the years and indeed the final Chinese stuff we know that work was done on the tracks after the era the recent leaks come from. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more vocals out there. Agree Slash's comments are interesting. 

If I were being optimistic I'd say that they may be holding off putting something more meaningful out until they're more certain a tour can happen without any big Covid disruption.  I suppose time will tell ultimately. 

1 hour ago, Pele said:

Because a lot of people have now grown out of the idea that he had a load of unreleased 'big guns' that he was holding back for CD2 and CD3 (lol).

Anyone with an ounce of common sense has worked what releasing Silkworms/HardSkool meant.

You may believe it's some crazy coincidence that they released 2 new songs, and it happened to be 2 of the 4 completed songs from the sessions, and not Seven, Zodiac, SoulMonster, Berlin, Tonto, Ides of March, Leave Me Alone, Elvis Presley or whatever else you might believe there is.

People aren't gullible enough to believe he has all these unreleased songs, yet chose to release Silkworms and HardSkool by coincidence.

 

Yes, you're right, Atlas is likely to be next.

Yes, you're right, Perhaps needs more work and another verse, but he'll get away with releasing it without having to do any vocals, so he'll probably do so.

People don't know what state The General is in - if it has a full, usable vocal, then it's just as likely as Perhaps but we don't know.

Not as many people think State of Grace will be next because the vocals aren't usable - so it would mean he needed to re-record and people are starting to see how unlikely that is.

I don't think many people are gullible to believe Soul Monster is a completed song with full vocals at this point.  It's likely an instrumental with some scratch vocal melody over it at best.

 

We get it - you think he has an album full of unreleased songs, and for whatever reason, has chosen not to release any for a decade, any you believe they'll be released within 5 years.

A lot of us think you're dreaming at this point.

It's a hard one re new/unfinished material. Hypothetically, after 2002 a lot of work could have been done and so there could be a whole record good to go but I think putting Absurd out is quite a strong indication there isn't a wealth of material sitting there as it was an odd song to release. Whilst I'm aware it's all subjective, it's always been the weakest of the Chinese era songs in my opinion, it's co-written by someone who had an acrimonious split with the band and stylistically it's  a far cry from the classic Guns vibe (although, fair play to Slash, he made it work). Hard Skool made complete sense though as it's a classic GN'R style rocker.

That being said, maybe Axl really likes Absurd but the fact it wasn't played a huge amount before the album release and was left off Chinese leads me to think he wasn't dying to release it. If Going Down is ever released that'll be firm proof to me that this is it because it's a Tommy song through and through. I mean, I can't imagine that it will ever get a release for that reason.

The way I see it the leaks point to the fact that he had one killer album of material, one double album with a fair amount of filler and ultimately what we got - a pretty long single album with some filler, with some of the better stuff kept aside for a rainy day but resulting in a few tracks short of being able to release a follow up album of the same length of the same quality unless there was some writing/work done.  I'd also argue that that chimes with how things played out in that there wasn't a quick follow up and there was talk of writing from '09 which Ashba's appointment supports. If you're going to hire someone purely for their guitar playing chops then DJ Ashba isn't the guy to go for but he'd co-written a solid Crue album and his co-written Sixx: AM songs were getting radio play. The fact that he mentioned Axl playing piano ideas to him leads me to think his writing skills were one of the main reasons he got the gig. 

With hindsight though, I think Axl should have just put out Chinese as a double album, filler and all - first release of the leaks and This I Love during the tour in 2006 and then a release a couple of years later. Whilst we'd have heard most of the material for the first album, the second album would have been completely new. 

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I see more people than Pele talk about Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps as the next singles. Why is that? Why not The General and Perhaps? Or Atlas Shrugged and State of Grace? Or The General and Soul Monster? Are people of the opinion that only Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps exist with vocals? Is it contagious?

Personally, I think Perhaps would need more work before it could be released, at least a better mix. I get that Atlas is likely to be the next we hear since it was intended to be included on CD. But as for the other singles (if we even get singles and not just an album), could just as easily be any of the more-or-less finished songs back in 2001 as another unknown or known song that was finished either before the release of CD (like Atlas or, presumably, The General) or a song finished after (like Soul Monster and likely other songs).

Just working from the leaks to avoid disappointment primarily. I'm reminded that the big vault leaks are only up to 2002 and so part of me wants to hope there was more stuff after that and more songs with vocals.  We know that Bumble went over the songs prior to the album's release so who knows if there aren't more completed versions of the songs around somewhere. Given how old the leaks are it's true the vault stuff is probably not the best indication of what finished stuff there is. I suppose the fact that there was no follow up record soon after if there were songs good to go and the choice of the singles from last year supports the idea that the finished vault tracks are all there are is. Didn't Bumble say that some of the songs on one of his solo records were originally ideas for Guns or am I misremembering? Including The General that brings it to around seven finished leftovers if we're working from the vault stuff so some writing would have been required to have enough songs for another album after the release of Chinese. 

Thinking about it, just including the released album tracks, Oh My God and the leaks with vocals there were enough songs for two albums in the 2000s (two eleven track records). CD1 could have been all the songs that were played live and the 2006 leaks, with something like This I Love added in with CD2 being all the then-unheard songs. Releasing Chinese with fourteen tracks left something of a shortfall regarding a follow up. 

I haven't posted here in years (around the Axl/DC era!) but thought I'd check back in considering the recent(ish) leaks and the singles this year. Life/work has sort of got in the way in the last few years so I've been out of the loop. My personal feeling is that if the leaks are a real indication, there aren't enough finished songs in the vault for a full album and so Chinese should have been put out as a double album in 2008 and a line written under it. I'm surprised Hard Skool was sat on for so long as it would have been a perfect single for radio as it's the most oldGuns sounding song from that era. I also feel that the ship has sailed on Chinese stuff post-reunion and whilst it's fun to hear Slash and Duff add their spin to songs from that era (love Slash's addition to Absurd), I'd rather they did stuff from scratch as the leaks of the songs will be more indicative of what they were intended to sound like. Having said that, hoping we get Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps this year as it'll mean more songs for the setlists. State of Grace has real potential but seems a bit like a work in progress lyrics/vocals wise and whilst I love Going Down, don't see that ever getting released as it's a Tommy penned song (or sounds like it anyway) with him on lead vocals. 

Still hope that we get Axl singing over some new Slash/Duff jams for one last hurrah but not counting on it. 

On 18/07/2016 at 5:39 AM, Billsfan said:

The first paragraph is trying too hard. You're trying to turn something around that is fictional. People can talk, agree, disagree, concur, etc. all they want. That's why we discuss. But when you have an obvious member of the band, that's been there for over a quarter of a century, and trying to convince anyone that dizzy Reed shouldn't be in guns n roses, I mean, it's jut embarrassing and pathetic trying to convince or prove the point that dizzy shouldn't be in GNR. It's just wrong.

Im glad you have no complaints. Cool. Facts based on recording and live material being played  concludes he's a member of guns n roses. The rock n roll hall of fame, who usually screw things up, actually got it right by inducting him with guns n roses. So yeah... That's that.

 I mean no disrespect to Dizzy but I always figured the HOF included him as a concession to Axl, i.e. they wanted a member of the then current lineup to be included other than Axl so it didn't seem as if nuGuns were being ignored and given Dizzy was around in the UYI era he was the obvious candidate as given all the people that had been involved in Chinese, it would have been a bit of minefield inducting anyone else. I figure they wanted to keep Axl on side as they were hoping there would be a chance that Axl may have shown up and performed with the others which would have been a major event. I mean take Deep Purple's induction as an example, Steve Morse has been in the band for twenty years and released a string of albums with them but wasn't inducted. I know it's not Dizzy's (or any of the other members of nuGuns for that matter) fault that they didn't play on much new material but it's undeniable that Steve Morse has contributed more creatively to Deep Purple over the last couple of decades than Dizzy has to GN'R. That's my problem with the HOF, they have one rule for one band and one for another.

That being said I don't have an issue with him the same way others do, I like his contributions and I think he's necessary in the band, it frees Axl up to perform more if he's not shackled to a piano for all the ballads. I think two keyboards is a bit overkill though, when it seemed Axl was heading for a more industrial sound it made sense having Pitman but now, not so much, especially if it seems Melissa isn't doing much during the show. I guess it fills the sound out more but I think Slash's band pulled off all the rockers brilliantly without a keyboard player. 

Also, kudos to Axl for giving Dizzy a job and thus a lifeline when his life was on the rocks. 

Personally, I'd love it if Angus and Axl continued to work together; the AXL/DC I saw in Stratford was hands down the best rock show I've ever seen. That being said, I'd rather they did it under a new name but I could see Angus continuing to use the AC/DC brand and getting away with it. Sadly, I doubt many people know who is/was in the band other than Angus, Malcom, Brian and Bon and to be honest nobody I was around at the Stratford show seemed hugely bothered by the absence of Phil or Malcolm and most were floored by Axl. Thin Lizzy, GN'R, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Smashing Pumpkins and others have done at some point or still are doing the rounds successfully with one member of the classic lineup. I think ultimately the bottom line is that people want to hear the songs live and one classic member is better than no classic members. Plus, I do wonder how many people who go to shows actually know who's in a band or whether they just see the name, book the ticket and so long as they hear the hits they're happy. I'm not saying it's right but I fear that's just the way it is.

20 minutes ago, gunsfanoldie said:

Gotta agree. Still happy its happening, but god damn if I wasn't already over it once Vegas was done. The fact that it had been brewing long before it happened, then was finally announced but just Coachella. Then some scattered dates including Vegas. It was kind of cool there, cause we all assumed where it was going but they weren't speaking or saying anything, so those April shows were gonna be really cool. Then they did the surprise show, which kind of sucked a lot of the excitement out of the rest of the shows IMO. At least that initial build up. THEN they announced all the tour dates, before ANY of the April dates got played. They kind of just kept undercutting themselves. Any exciting thing that was announced was then kind of lessened when they announced something else. Vegas got pounded with reality checks with the club show, the tour being announced, AND then Axl breaking his leg the morning of the show (at least the announcement coming then). Vegas was fun because there was still a significant amount that hadn't seen them. Even Coachella was kind of undercut by the AC/DC announcement.

Still looking forward to the shows I'm seeing, but I agree I'm WAY less hyped than I thought I'd be for this monumental tour. I'm glad I indulged in Vegas, cause that was at least a culmination of a lot of things. Whereas everything since has left little to get INCREDIBLY excited about. It seems like the most blasé "take over the world" reunion, when I really thought they were gonna set the world on fire. I feel like the tour's old news already, and it hasn't even started. IMO, the only way to really keep interest up would be to change setlists night to night, and I'm not expecting much in that department.

Great post and pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I have to say that I wasn't sure about parting with hundreds of pounds to see them when they inevitably do a UK/Euro run but the AXL/DC show last night changed my mind. If Axl's singing and performing as phenomenally as he was last night for future GN'R shows it will be a sight to behold; especially as there's the huge added bonus of Slash and Duff being there as well. Media wise there does seem to a be a lot more buzz about the whole AXL/DC thing though and it's odd that Axl's doing some of the best shows of his career outside of GN'R! Plus, I think one of the things that got me excited about this AXL/DC run was seeing Axl doing a completely different set from the last few years even if it was singing another band's songs.

I hope they do some stadium shows in the UK as I'm not a huge fan of festivals. That being said if they were announced as playing Hellfest I'd head back there in a heartbeat; I preferred the festival experience to Download when I went to see nuGuns there in 2012 and generally the lineups are more to my tastes than Download's. 

30 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I think most GNR fans bought them from seatwave, stubhub etc that were already on there when Axl was announced not realising they would offer refunds and be available from TM. Then they released more tickets as well. 

Ah, yeah that makes sense. When Axl was announced more tickets were available instantly on SeeTickets which makes me think that they must have had more to release as the refunds wouldn't have been processed that quickly.

Back OT it'll be interesting to see what Angus does now. If Brian is ready and willing to return to the band but Angus decides to keep Axl on I imagine there will be a huge backlash, it is Brian's gig at the end of the day. It seems most AC/DC fans thought he was a fitting replacement given the circumstances but if it transpired that Brian was replaced full time when he could have returned I imagine they may be less forgiving. Who knows? I guess only time will tell and I doubt any official announcement will be made soon. I imagine Angus will weigh up his options, talk to Brian and make a decision after the end of the tour.

35 minutes ago, Gavin82 said:

With Brian in band there would be more ticket sales & that means more ££££££ at mo & since May 7th tixs have been be available via all official sellers before this every thing was sold out

You go on TM,See tickets,Axs they all have tixs & have down since May.

Last night in London there was 10,000 tixs left over apparently 

 

The thing is though that many 'sold out' gigs aren't really fully sold out and more tickets get released nearer the time when they know what the stage setup/production will be like. I do agree though that it probably would have sold out quicker with Brian; it always seems that when AC/DC tour these days it could be the last time and that no doubt helps sales.

I'm surprised 10,000 ticket were left though as I would have thought there would have been enough GN'R fans who would have snapped tickets up seeing that the last time Axl came here with GN'R was back in 2012 and it seems that there won't be any more GN'R shows in Europe until 2017. 

3 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

sometimes I have to put into perspective how great Axl has been for ACDC, and as disrespectful as this post is it needs to be said, going back to Brian would be a huge downgrade in terms of quality...this was only 3months ago and the band looks dead, the sound feels dead, but then you watch the performance in London last night and it sounds like the band is back at Donnington playing in their prime...if we get a pro shot of an Axl gig it will only make it more stunning. 

If I'm a big ACDC fan then I can't go back...they sound too good right now. ACDC has never been a band for the nostalgia fans, it's never been about one album, it's always about the next move, the next tour, the next album and if you want to keep moving forward then Axl should be your third true lead singer (yea I know there was a 4th) 

It pains me to say it but I'm inclined to agree; the band seemed far more fired up last night than when I saw them at Download/Donnington in 2010 and Axl and Angus had such great chemistry. Maybe it's just my imagination but the songs seemed to be faster and more energetic as well. I listened to a couple of songs rom the River Plate record on the train back from the show and there's no denying that Axl is stronger vocally, although he is a fair bit younger than Brian so it's an unfair comparison. Don't get me wrong, 2010 was an incredible show and I feel very fortunate to have seen the band with Brian, Malcolm and Phil but I think the injection of a new frontman has really re-energized the band; it seems Axl has really fired up Angus and vice versa. 

That being said, the thought of never seeing AC/DC with Brian again is a very sad thought If it turns out that Axl is to be the permanent lead singer in the future then I'd like them to do what Queen do, i.e. bill it as AC/DC + Axl Rose (like Queen did with Paul Rodgers and are now doing with Adam Lambert). Plus, when Paul Rodgers was fronting Queen they played some Free and Bad Company songs, it would be cool if they incorporated a couple of GN'R songs in the set for the hell of it. Given the recent news that Brian's confident he'll return to the stage I'm thinking this jaunt with Axl may just end up being a one off, or until Brian retires (if indeed he does decide to). 

I'm completely floored by his performance, he's back to full on 2006/2010 rasp and I thought we'd heard the last of it! Can't wait for the Stratford show in June! This is the best Axl has sung in years!

I didn't mind Ashba when he first joined, but after the 09/10 tour I started to go off him - it seemed like all the 'acting like a rock star' stuff went into overload (anyone remember the potted plant incident?) and it seemed that his playing really went downhill, the case in point being his infamous Patience solo. I'm personally astounded that Axl wanted him to be part of the reunion. I always thought that Axl hired him for songwriting given the success of Saints of Los Angeles and Sixx:AM, I figured that the guy could write a catchy but forgettable song for GN'R that could create some buzz. I mean, no disrespect to him, but I can't believe it was all for his guitar playing - he struggled to play the solos (he had to change TiL for example) and guitarists who can play the material note for note are a dime a dozen out there. Plus, all his rock star posing would still have been embarrassing for a guy in their 20s and he was pushing 40 when he joined GN'R. 

Plus, the reunion shows have shown that there really wasn't the need for three guitarists in the band. It's also annoying that he played a lot of the leads when Richard was stuck on rhythm considering that Richard is a far better guitar player. I saw him with Thin Lizzy in 2011 and he really got the opportunity to show off his skills with them and I was amazed by his playing.