life_247

I always liked perhaps - although this feels a little layered versus the village demo (although I’ve not listed to it in a while).

Unlike much of the more recent stuff you can sing the top line, has a bit of a obvious hook. It’s not a world beater but it’s just enjoyable and also a little different from everything we’ve heard from Axl or any other gunners in some time.

7 hours ago, LoadedNightraiN said:

Because there is none

I think there is slight confusion around the HoB shows (due to them being on NYE).

There was the first ever new Guns show NYE 2000 into 2001 that there is now a full video of (There previously was just a soundboard until some leaks).

Then at the end of the year (Rio was in the spring) there were 2 more shows including one on NYE 2001 into 2002. I believe I’m correct in saying that there was no footage or leaks or much of anything from these shows.

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I think it's the English accent rather than the register that has people scratching their heads. I mean Down on the farm is still a head fuck for me... Why the accent, why🤣

Probably because the original is in a heavy English accent - you just do it without really thinking. Also some of the pacing/syllabells/gaps will sound wierd/won't fit if you change the accent to west coast 'merican.

(Its by UK Subs - the clues in the name people).

Also 4 or 5 of the tunes were recorded during the Illusion sessions - so it might of just been a simple, get up, sing it, in the can - next!

Just now, t-p-d-a said:

Was Shadow Of Your Love really planed or AFD? I thought that was planned for Live Like A Suicide. But it was cut away because it sounded too similar to Reckless Life.. 

I think it was just a song from that era - they played it live (It was obviously a Hollywood Rose song).

The AFD boxset also covers Live Like a Suicide so it does fit together.

Wait, -hold up, do we actually know when it was written?

I know it gets attributed to Dizzy/Pittman. But could some of it of been knocking around between Dizzy and Axl from the UYI (My World) era?

There's basically nothing left from UYI so if the demo existed back then...... are they going to try and count it as a UYI bonus track?

I am beyond baffled - Slash & Duff have been back for 5 years.

Chinese Democracy came out in 2008, Silkworms was deemed to be not worthy.

Either give us a CD box set with a full 1999, 2001 and 2006 album on it (I know we kinda have it already but who knows what actually got finished etc.) or make some new stuff.

A cast off from 2001?? Really? I hope its a joke - I fear it isn't.

22 hours ago, Dean said:

We have the 2001 performances that share a resemblance to the leak from the Village Sessions, the leak is just missing the chorus. Then there is the Bumblefoot version, which is really guitar heavy and is similar to the version they debuted the other night,

Am I being dumb - I don't recall a Silkworms in the Village Leaks?

EDIT - Yes I was, just went and looked

They be trollin' right?

Also whoever asked who managed beyonce/destiny's child that was her father and also by some bloke called erm Merck Mercuriadis.

The thing is if you keep changing the manager and there isn't really a change it might be time to look at the team.

TB/Fernando seem to be operating on a different planet but I'm not sure any traditional management here would really help? Lets be honest if I'm going to manage GnR now - the boats kinda been missed its all about legacy touring for the forseeable future. You can play shows that sell out (and at the highest ticket prices i've seen outside of the Stones and Fleetwood Mac) require 0 promotion, 0 interviews and to be honest little in the way of rehearsal what is the commercial point of a new album?

No-one really knows where TIL came into the picture - Axl says he was convinced by everyone else to put it on the record and wasn't part of the sessions so maybe it didn't resuface until much much later. The album credits also only point to Eric Caidieux and Caram Costano getting creddit for Sub Drums  and editing (all tracks credit)- no-one is actually credited clearly as recording it.

Also after these rough mixes RTB came on the scene and re-recorded a lot of the album (theres his new drums work on those later discs). So very little of this instrumentation possibly features on the end album - even the guitar work was re-amped at one stage (if was kept and not re-recorded completly prior to that). Obviously BH went back over and recorded parts onto all these songs, that were later altered by re-amping and then further takes by Bumble. Also Fortus plays guitar on CD, Better (rather more obviously), Street of Dreams, TWAT and Prostitute so there's a chance that these were all completly re-recorded or at least altered quite significantly post his arrival in 2002.

3 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Without Axl vocals, you may as well just buy a Buckethead album.

And they're currently coming out as quick as Buckethead albums!!

This disc is less cohesive than CD1 - it feels less like it fits together maybe why they are on the 3rd disc.

But also this is the result of ~3 years of jamming and writing away with different players from different backgrounds so I’m not surprised to find a whole heap of different sounding stuff on here. It’s all work in progress stuff.

The difference was Axl & Co were doing all this in a full commercial studio constantly so they probably ran with these ideas a lot further than most bands do. Fair Enough - not every song you make can be another AFD level banger.

Id love to know the though process to these discs and why the tracks are grouped in the way they are! Shame we might never know. 

With the exception of Silkworms (which is silkworms, a genre all of its own). That first CD of rough mixes sounds very Guns meets Queen with a sprinkling of Axl weirdness on it. 

But also go look at what rock/metal bands were putting out in late 99 - 02. Loads of NuMetal inspired tosh (not that NuMetal is all rubbish but for some reason every established rock band felt they had to have a go). Unlike the final CD product we got to me these sound less like a product of their time somehow. 

I think the thing is that most musicians go through a phase where they don’t want to play the classic songs they wrote in their 20s/early30s and go off and do something different.

Its why so many bands break up or people leave because they don’t want to do the same thing over and over again.

But I think Axl kept the name (although I think we would of got CD2 & 3 of he hadn’t) and was happy with its legacy. I mean he took the entirely new band on tour and most of the set list was Appetite. He was happy to belt out SCOM every night.

15 hours ago, viruzzz said:

Buckethead is way on another level, not only about skill, soul, composing.. everything.

Then, slash, finck, izzy, bumblefoot, fortus, ashba.

(i'd pick Paul Huge over Ashba and Fortus for his contributions as a composer on CD)

He's like the polar opposite to Fortus, who is great live but everthing he's ever recorded has been proper meh.

I'll have Slash as the best but Buckethead is also amazing - I always wonder if Axl had stuck his own name on a record (or another name) with BH and just let rip (no baggage of the GnR name - which there is whatever way you look at it) how amazing that would of been! We can always hope after the reunion record we get a Hevan & Hell esque CD line-up reunion (not you Ashba)

16 hours ago, BucketFinckFortus said:

I'm afraid yes, iirc most of the band didn't even meet during that time, GNR future was really uncertain. Axl probably had some ideas going around, recorded lyrics and vocals on tracks that are missing (not only the ones released on CD) and that's it.

So basically i think RTB continued in 2001 with Brain redoing the Drums and BH guitar work. They also obviously finished better into a full song at some point as at this stage it was a early demo. Axl probably did some more vocals etc.

Then in 2002/3 they did all the orchestrations and stuff probably post that aborted tour etc. But then Bucket left in early 2004 and they didn't do a whole lot until 2006 - hence Tommy put out that solo album in 2004 and went and toured it etc.

So i think the real inactive years were probably mid 2003 until 2006.

3 minutes ago, Beto 22 said:

Can anyone tell if the drums are all Josh Fresse or some of the songs has Brain on it?

 

Bit of confusion on this point. I need to listen to it again versus the 99 Freese version (It leaked first). Brain and Bucket joined together in 2000 as both Finck and Freese left when their contracts ran out in 1999 (Freese at least said they were all under contract for 2 years 97-99 and he had to decide to renew or go and do something else).

So looking at the Dates I still think this is the Roy Thomas Baker work post those two 2001 shows (HoB on NYE and RIR3). So I believe this is Brain on drums but can’t be too certain on that front.

EDIT: No it’s not! It’s the work that was done in 2000 - sorry being an idiot. But it does sound very different to the 1999 leaks:

This first disc sounds very like the Illusions meets queen, versus the 1999 stuff which sounded much more like the Industrial sound Axl talked about.

Those after Bucket stuff, looking at the leaks the second CD could well be all Bucket/Brain demo!

17 minutes ago, Shacklermyrye said:

And Chinese itself surely, so basic and heavy

I'm torn between this one and the 1999 one with Freese on drums. But its like picking between 2 fine beers - hard to say which i like better and both get the job done!

Calling it now - best version of the Blues & Rhiad are on this disk!

Wow I was wrong about these discs - someones done some funky stuff to those previously released leaks, they're like mono'd or something. These sound like they need mastered and thats about it!

Just so we're all clear (I'm sure someone answered this before) - this is actually the second attempt at the album. Sean Beavan / Youth did the original version of the album with Josh Freese (which also has leaked out there and sounds very raw, very different). This is the result of the Roy Thomas Baker sessions where they effectivly re-recorded the whole album I believe. But this is close to the album that they were looking at releasing in 2001 with that tour that got binned.

However is there no Bucket on this disc at all?

5 hours ago, The Glow Inc. said:

Why would anyone in his right mind choose to include If The World and Scraped over Perhaps and Hard School on Chinese Democracy and let these songs rot for eleven years on a hard drive ? Mind boggling...

100% agree - Hard School is such a strange choice to leave out, it blends so well with the old style Guns and I love the BH guitar work. Since this hadn't leaked prior to the album this would of been a perfect first single, get it out to rock based radio and it would of got a lot of plays especially in 2008. Although the whole release of CD was so messed up!

Perhaps has that Illusions meets Industrial thing going on too.

Both of these tracks are the most old meets new guns songs so its an odd thought that they would be held over for the second album - surely you put these songs out first then move to the even further uncharted territory. But that would make sense but this is GnR that we are talking about

erm ok -

Quick question back on topic - the "Madagascar 2001 - RTB" which I believe leaked out some time ago, where do we think thats from because compared to the songs from the Zutaut discs we've heard its got something approaching a proper mix.

Fingers crossed someone sat down in late 01/02 and mixed all these tracks!

11 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Who’s to say at this point any of the material was copy written. I mentioned when this whole thing was about to hit the fan that all of the material was obtained legally. Tom or whoever was in charge of his locker was notified that he had x amount of days before it was to be auctioned off. Someone fucked up. The buyer of the locker legally owns whatever he purchased. Whatever he did with the contents afterwards (selling, discarding) was also his legal right to do so. Nobody is going to jail over this. Lawyers will be the only ones getting rich over this with their bullshit letters that they will send back and forth. 

You don't have to apply for copywrite - it will be in the contracts because the label was picking up the tab.

While it will be technically legal to own the physical CDs - you wouldn't own the license to listen, reproduced, etc.

Think of it this way - you own the physical hard drive on your PC with the leaks on it. Doesn't mean you've paid for the license to listen to it or have the right to redistribute.

Now the orignal guys are very much in the clear with how they obtained it but the minute they started making copies and distributing they are very much able to be caught and sued. No one is likely to go to jail but you could get hit with one hell of a fine.

7 hours ago, lukepowell1988 said:

Yeah I would be curious to know who legal "Owns" the material given that it was sold via an official channel ( the lockers auction ) to a buyer.

You’d need to ask a lawyer or two - even then they might not all agree.

Interscope/Geffen (or whoever owns it all now - I forget!) probably own the discs, Zutaut probably only had possession of them in legalistic terms (IE think like a work phone - you have it and use it but you don’t own it). But I’m really not 100% sure, also I’m from the UK (so are you looking at your profile pic) so US law could be quite different.

It’s complicated by the physical disc and the license - they aren’t the same thing