JustanUrchin

8 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Neither @Powerage5 nor I were the ones that moved the topic, but we understand why it was moved along with why it would stay in D&N. Full disclosure; my biggest problem with the topic is the way you present opinion as fact. An example of which is the part I quoted and replied to above. That's the main reason I was in favor of moving it to this section as I saw it causing more arguments than straight discussion which is what the Civil War section of the board is meant for. No one is censoring you. Removing the thread all together would be censorship. Moving it to where people can have a more healthy debate on the topic isn't censorship in the slightest IMO.

My first thought is…what?  A site reliant upon traffic discussing commercial music to generate ad revenue has a poster with a sourced and citable topic, relevant to the singular question many fans have, and a team promptly jumps into action to effectively censor it?  While I do not recall seeing two employees/managers joining the first page of a thread in any topic that I’ve read, there are at least three employees/managers involved in my first and only thread?

I listed 14 sourced or citable facts, 8 of which are direct quotes.  Of the 14, you isolate the sole fact reliant upon an auditory source yet state that is “an example” of presenting opinion as fact.  I offered auditory evidence, so if that is insufficient for you, then you must want visual sheet music or full notations for the recorded vs. reworked intro and solo.  You offered no evidence that any of the remaining 13 sourced or citable facts, including 8 with direct quotes are “present[ing] opinion as fact.”  I delineated, with labeled sections no less:  background (citable fact), fact list (sourced and citable), and conclusions.  In 6 of the 14 sourced or citable facts, I included pointed discussion questions.  The fact that you dispute is arranged in a group (10-13) as they are related to the topic of the business structure of this entity, specifically creative decision-making.

In thread after thread, Axl apologists present opinion as fact—“facts” that are demonstrably false and perpetuate myths, yet you claim 14 facts that I listed, 8 of which contain direct quotes, are actually opinion.  In scanning the original posts on Page 1 of D&N, you are indisputably not only not requiring factual content, but permit wholesale speculation as viable content for acceptable threads. 

Your reasoning for effectively censoring this topic is much like Axl demanding paying concert goers (in London 2012) disrobe personal property containing Slash imagery—sure they could still enter the arena, but without the shirt on their back.  He didn’t like the fact that Gn’R fans adore Slash, so he censored them.  But still “allowed” them in to retain the revenue they produced.

Actions surrounding this timely and relevant topic have stigmatized it sufficiently so that many would not contribute to it now even if removed from behind the curtain.

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

The intro to Better isn't re-written. It's just the existing bridge of the song moved to the beginning. As for the TIL solo, Slash didn't "gut it". The main points in the solo are still there, he just sort of riffs on the parts in between. Lastly, Robin vastly changed many of Slash's solos and played them differently several times just as Slash has done with TIL.

You are not a hunter, apparently.  A hunter guts a kill.  In doing so, the hunter simultaneously removes the stench and undesirable parts.  Music does not have a smell, not literally, anyhow, thus Slash has sonically gutted the parts that he does not desire from the solo in “TIL.”  Then again, the point of your reply seems to be semantics.

I do not patronize others, so I will not link to the recorded version of the “TIL” solo or the two dozen or so instances of Slash gutting the recorded notes.  I then, in support of the actual topic, asked readers to imagine one of the seven replacement guitarists gutting Slash’s iconic “SCOM” solo.  “TIL” is apparently the most favored track from Axl’s 15 original songs in 25 years based upon YT plays.  There is no close second.  Slash has gutted its solo.  Please source an instance of when one of the seven replacement guitarists gutted the “SCOM” solo on stage.  It seems unthinkable said occurred in front of paying fans and thus exists, but not impossible.  But, then again, that is my supporting point that you latched onto—that Slash is a living guitar legend.  He can and is, in packed American stadiums, doing whatever the hell he wants with the “TIL” solo.

As stated, anyone with functioning ears can hear that the intro to “Better” has been rewritten.    That it is based on a snippet of structure elsewhere from the song reinforces the fact that the intro has been rewritten.  Anyone who claims that the intro to that song as played throughout the spring and summer has not been reworked from its recorded version is both factually wrong and contrarian.

Your reply is just one of two vaguely on-topic.  Facts 10-13 are grouped collectively to inform those who may be unaware, and because they are central to the actual topic—the structure of the biz entity as it relates to decision-making on business and creative matters.  These matters, from a pragmatic view, are inseparable.  The topic, as stated in the initial post and summarized in my last reply:  to list recent facts that point to the structure of the reconstituted Gn’R business and to gather other publicly known facts, if existing.  By doing so, it explains how Adler came to be on stage this summer.  Understanding the biz structure of the band sheds light on its present and future plans in the absence of an official statement beyond tour scheduling and its promotion.  This is a constant point of both interest and contention for (reemerging) fans of this band’s music or the music of its individual members.

8 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

FFS, some people are never happy. You've got Axl, Slash, and Duff on the same stage again - something that by most accounts was probably never going to happen. Yet it did. And now some people still need to find something to complain about. But you know what? I'll humor you - let's take them person-by person. 

 

Dizzy - Essential to the UYI songs, considering he played on the fucking albums. You can't possibly argue that he shouldn't be onstage, unless you want the band to play Appetite front to back, and nothing else.

 

Fortus - Izzy doesn't like touring, that's a pretty commonly accepted fact. If he isn't up for it, Richard is the next best guy. No doubt about that.

 

Frank - Clearly, having Adler guest occasionally has fed the flames of wanting him back. But, for one reason or another, he isn't touring full-time. We don't know the reason, but there clearly is one. I'd sure as hell rather have Frank than Sorum or Brain, but I will give you that this one is considerably more subjective than the others.

 

Melissa- I'm still not her biggest fan, and I'm still not sold on her necessity. I've felt that way since I watched her sit cross-legged under her fucking keyboard while the rest of the band played Don't Cry in Detroit. But if Axl feels that a second keyboardist is still necessary for the CD songs, and relations with Pitman went south, then I guess someone has to fill that void. I'm totally indifferent to who it is though.

 

I'm sorry, but your argument is so flawed. According to your post, no one other than Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Steven have ever been part of GN'R. So yeah, let's forget the Illusions ever happened. That wasn't really GN'R anyways. You've got to face the facts; that lineup really only had a few years together, and even at their peak, GN'R was beginning to become a revolving door of musicians. Let me ask you this - would you be complaining the same way as you are if Sorum and Gilby were a part of this lineup instead of Frank and Richard? 

The purpose of the topic, as stated, was to list recent facts that point to the structure of the reconstituted Gn’R business.  By doing so, it explains how Adler came to be on stage this summer.  The greater goal was to both to stamp out myth-pushing by Axl apologists regarding “whose” band it is legally and functionally and to gather additional, recent facts regarding the business entity of Gn’R of which I was unaware.  Accurately identifying these matters shapes answers regarding the future of this business entity, and the future plans of this business is a recurring point of, if not the singular most important, interest for fans.

Almost immediately after posting my topic, which includes factual sourcing, someone moved the topic behind the curtain.  After reviewing the forum’s rules, which are framed largely as negatives (what not write), it is unclear why this topic was promptly moved to the back of the store.  I contacted the forum manager(s) via the link at the bottom of the page for explanation yesterday, but have received none.  You have, however, responded at length to one of the posters of my topic to tell him/her why she is "wrong."  (And as I write this, yet another forum employee/manager/etc. has taken the time to reply to tell me why a spurious conclusion of mine regarding Slash as a living guitar legend is "wrong" ).

My topic is driven by 14 sourced or citable facts, 13 of which are the result of events in 2016.  The outlier (Adler’s interview by Trunk) occurred in November 2015.  Descriptive facts that support and reinforce 2016 factual events are likewise sourced, e.g., to Slash’s autobiography.

This is the second time that I have posted content which has been censored on this site.  The first was a reply to another member regarding his/her inflammatory and disrespectful comments about Adler.  Said reply was deleted almost immediately despite the nature of the reply being constructive.  No explanation was offered.  While my content in this thread is still available (at present), as noted, it has been moved to the back of the store and thus effectively censored.  Meanwhile, a topic presently on page 1 of D&N based solely on a 2012 rambling, largely incoherent written statement by Axl gains steam.

My topic is driven entirely by present and near recent events as related to the business of the band moving forward.  If there is a more relevant topic to Gn’R fans, I would be hard-pressed to identify it.

2 hours ago, gunners fan said:

Utter bullshit.

This GNR 2016 with the original logo. The 3 main characters. Band playing to stadiums....playing on time. On fire performances. Awesome marketing. Adler can tour....that's why the guest spots. Izzy don't want to tour. This is the best of the combo.

I saw Nu guns in 2006 and they never came on stage to 12:15 am and played to 3 am......worst concert ever....

I have seen 2016 GNR 4x....absolutely amazing, professional and for the fans.

I cannot agree with you on the subjective combo statement or the Izzy conclusion, but I dig your application of facts.

Worst concert ever?  I’ll raise ya.  Of the four times that I’ve paid to see Axl perform (twice in Gn’R and twice in various incarnations of his solo band), he respected his paying fans just once with a punctual performance.  That was the first time.  And, perhaps coincidentally, that show occurred prior to his paying fans buying him a pot to piss in.  The third time he treated me to a riot and gave thousands of us the finger rather than upholding his contractual commitment.  Then again, he’s done that the world over, time and again.  I received a partial reimbursement from Ticketmaster on two tickets.  But no reimbursement for stress of escorting my wife from the arena unharmed, gas, meals, mileage, lodging or, of course, wasted time.

While the reconstituted Gn’R biz entity assuredly forced terms on Axl regarding punctual start times or be liable for specific division of loss, hence approximately thirty consecutive punctual (and even early) performances this summer for the first time since AFD, attorneys for Slash and Duff (and LiveNation) have made it an enjoyable experience for all paying fans, band members and crew.  AC/DC attorneys have done the same.  No show?  Walk off?  You don’t get paid.  And, oh by the way, you’ve accepted sole legal liability for all costs and expenses for incidental and consequential damages resulting from late starts, no shows, walk-offs and all nature of hissy fits.  LiveNation would not have accepted the risk otherwise, the insurer(s) would not have insured the summer series, and Slash would've never anted up again.

As someone brighter and far funnier than I concluded about the lazy stalactite:  anybody named after a car part that ain’t includin’ the engine is a puss anyways.  Don’t click on the below link unless you’re an early on fan.  Or have a healthy sense of humor.

#backinblacklivesmatter

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 8:24 AM, EvanG said:

And to GnR's credit... they never even called it a 'reunion', it's just been something the media has been running with and now people like Matt and Gilby probably can't go one day without someone asking them about the reunion so he finally gave his thoughts on it and he's completely right.

Myth.

“This isn’t, the Guns n’ Roses reunion isn’t just kind of like by happenchance or whatever...chance…or whatever.  Um, it was always looked at as a possibility, but it just never seemed right or felt right.”

Axl Rose, China Exchange Q&A, June 2016

It is a reunion.  Axl understands this.  That is why he said it.  Slash, Duff and Axl were the sole partners after Izzy’s buyout subsequent to Adler’s firing.  Those partners have reunited.

The most valuable asset that this p’ship has is its copyrighted ’87-’91 catalogue.  Gn’R assets were solely controlled by Slash and Duff after Axl withdrew from the p’ship in 1996, believing, as history shows, that he could force Slash to join Axl’s solo band.  And that, he, Axl, could erase the Gn’R legacy and make it his own.  He failed.  On both fronts.  Slash and Duff were, while controlling Gn’R assets as sole partners, winning Grammies with VR as Axl’s solo band devolved into a lounge act.  A humorless two decade parody.

I summarized this in another thread—from Superior Court legal pleadings, but it bears repeating until the forum stamps out the “Axl’s band” myth:  it was never Axl’s band—legally OR in the eyes of the masses.  Axl maneuvered inside the mod’d PA by slipping terms into a MOU that should he be removed or voluntarily withdraw from the p’ship, he would be granted the brand name.  By design, Axl quit the p’ship after Slash told him, at least publicly via Snakepit, to go Ron Burgundy himself with his dictatorial aspirations.  Slash and Axl had equal decision-making authority in the mod’d PA.  To the Axl apologists, reread that last sentence.

Gilby’s “basically” line bears a striking resemblance to regurgitated misinformation from Axl revisionists on fan forums.  If Gilby was approached regarding this threeunion, which at best seems dubious, a precondition to sit at the table would have been agreeing to not disclose any protected or privileged terms of offers or negotiations or be liable for damages.  Period.

This reconstituted biz entity has already grossed to the tune of more than a hundred million dollars in 2016.  Such an undertaking post-voluminous litigation would require each party’s interests being represented individually, not by the likes of a singular, shady Goldstein-like character.  The forum shouldn’t be like Gilby—don’t conflate Axl’s retention of the brand name with the reconstituted Gn’R biz entity.  Axl’s solo band, R.I.P., 1996-2015.  It was Axl’s solo band banking on the Gn’R brand name that brought Axl apologists 15 songs in the same period that millions of children were conceived and reached legal drinking age.  And a spot on Wikipedia’s short list of all-time worst albums.

Is this a Gn’R reunion?  No.  Not to me, anyhow.  Is it a biz org, legal “reunion?”  Yes.

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 8:42 AM, RichardNixon said:

Is anyone here an actual  attorney  who has read actual  contracts? No? That's what I thought.

 

I wouldn't stake much on that assumption.  Maybe a copy of ChiDem from the bargain bin, but little else.

I'd offer that Gn'R fans come in all stripes and sizes.  And attorneys enjoy music, to boot.  Or so I've heard.  Some have beating hearts, as well.  And some of them, I reckon, rocked out to the baddest of all badass rock bands back in the day.

An old head I am, it seems. I saw Gn’R in ’88 and again in ’91 before UYI was released.  The latter show was prior to Izzy selling his equity share.  I was not, though, of legal drinking age when TSI dropped to the silence of irrelevance.  Draw your own conclusions about my objectivity.

I associate Izzy’s first replacement with everything post-Gn’R.  Like way (to steal the Smurf anime raver’s language) past the heyday that was Gn’R.  He was the first Izzy look-a-like.  I am uncertain how many subsequent Izzy wax figures Axl retained in his solo band, but I can be certain that there is a current Izzy look-a-like on the S/D/A GP payroll.  An Izzy look-a-like that’s made a two-decade livelihood as a work-for-hire yes man, replicating guitar parts that he had no hand in writing while enamoring Nsync and Rihanna with his techno pop playing.  RnfR, right?

Izzy’s first replacement had no hand in Gn’R’s demise any more than the nunchuck guy, but if I had my druthers, I would prefer the chicken bucket or goth guy playing Izzy’s parts in the reconstituted p’ship with its replacement players, which includes Adler’s fourth replacement drummer.  Why?  They’re too far removed to be considered scabs.  When I think Gilby, I think yawner piano pieces, million dollar Axl-bloat videos that awed and still reign in third world countries, gospel singers, keyboards for days, gospel backing singers, spandex shorty-shorts and Liberace-studded blazers.  This bloat and absurdity, granted, had nothing to do with Izzy’s first replacement.  Unwarranted guilt by Axl association.  And at least he was fired, rather than languishing for a decade or more before quitting with heavy pockets like the busload of revolving door mercenaries that followed.

To the point:  Izzy’s first replacement would be no more privy to the specific terms of the new or mod’d p’ship agreement than I, yet he conflates retention of the brand name with undisclosed p’ship terms—terms which are assuredly protected by a NDA under penalty of damages if disclosed—as if he is reliant upon the misinformed supposition from internet fan boards.  He is, perhaps coincidentally, recording and releasing new material.  Just like Izzy.  Izzy with his newfound appreciation of Sorum.

P’ship terms simply do not see the light of day, be it a mom-and-pop store on the corner selling Keds or the hundreds of millions of dollars, beating red enterprise that is the reconfiguration of the Gn’R biz entity.

Adler sent his fourth replacement drummer and his skull cap packing.

Stevie kicks the authentic Gn’R groove.  Time to rock!!!

Fucker should be playin’ all the AFD songs.  Period.

I enjoyed reading your experience @AxlCole.  I’m piecing mine together as GnR came on my radar a little earlier than yours.  I hope other early on fans share as well—it’s a unique connection that we, as strangers, have.

To the “blackout”:  I’m not sure that that I agree with you 100% on your police work—to steal a line from Fargo.  All three have given interviews since the threeunion began:  Axl at the CE, Duff on Steve Jones, and Slash on Joey Kramer.  The band has promoted via social media, billboards, buses and so forth while receiving free promotion with online reviews.  They are selling tickets and merchandise, not a quarter century of bitterness and disagreement…or delusions about Slash’s soul flying away like a crow.

Slash, Duff, and Adler are adored.  This is apparent by comments to GnR social media posts.  And it is apparent at each show, but particularly when Slash made a late entrance in Vegas and when the stadiums in Cincy and Nashville erupted as Adler rocked the AFD songs as they should be.  Judging by the massive volume of comments about Izzy’s absence on GnR social media posts, he too is adored.  It is Axl alone who rightfully faces an uphill public perception battle.  He, rather than speaking about the past quarter century of absurdities and failure, needs to simply, “…sing.”  How can he possibly explain his “not in this lifetime” and “Slash is a cancer” comments?  He cannot.  Not honestly.  No more than he can explain his album guarantees in the early 2000’s.  Or the riots he caused.  Or the habitual disrespect to fans and late show times.  Or the revolving door of musicians, managers and producers.  Or the lies about the RRHOF—he inducts Elton John but disrespects fans by not attending his own induction and instead rants nonsense in a letter about how he doesn’t understand what the RRHOF is.  How can he possibly explain spending more than 10 million dollars on an album that took 15 years and is listed as one of Wikipedia’s worst albums of all time?  He’ll just rant about the record company and producers and managers.  The more Axl Rose speaks, the more I don’t understand him.

Axl’s had to eat his words—he proclaimed NITL.  Slash and Duff eat no words—they stated time and again that a reunion was possible.  Beyond whatever is required of Axl in the partnership agreement or the LiveNation contract, e.g., a nondisclosure clause, one can only hope that his own manager and publicist (if he’s smart enough to have hired one) are counseling him on matters to avoid publicly discussing—or at least coaching him to briefly answer and redirect.

Slash and Duff (and Adler for two shows) are eviscerating a quarter century of Axl’s well-deserved negative public image.  It’s a virtual guarantee that loss division is incorporated into the partnership agreement to protect Duff and Slash, and certainly a guarantee in the LiveNation contract for no-shows, late start times, or hissy fits that result in cancelled shows.  Because of these mechanisms, there is no chance on this tour that Axl will attempt what he’s done the last quarter century—and this is, incidentally, forcing him to repair his public image and respect the fans.  By simply showing up (on time, not throwing hissy fits and quitting, you know, all the things expected of any person at any job) and putting effort into his vocals, he is repairing his image—while Slash and Duff do the heavy lifting.   Positivity and goodwill are everywhere—including in media reviews of shows.   Americans love a comeback story.

When Axl speaks, he causes derision and drama and even public riots.  This does not sell tickets and merchandise.  It does the opposite.  And his public negatives are enormous.  There is more than a quarter century of documented instances of what happens when he speaks publicly.  They’ve promoted and spoken enough since April.   So, rather than a “blackout” it’s an “Axl-in” on adult behavior and self-restraint with a heavy helping of loss division motivation.

12 hours ago, tremolo said:

And Fortus is a much more skilled guitar player than Slash.

 

Bruh just mentioned the other guitar player with Slash.  And in the same sentence.  No one knows or cares about the other guitar player because the other guitar player has contributed literally nothing--not a single known riff or solo--to the rock world.  Living rock guitar legends like Slash--recognized the world over after just a few notes--don't even know who the other guitarist is.  Slash tells him to fetch him his top hat, NA beers and tacos.

AC/DC is rerecording “Back in Black.”  Aerosmith is rerecording “Toys in the Attic.”  Rumor has it that Elvis is rerecording his ’68 comeback special.  Only in the land of Axl Rose is such ridiculousness of rerecording an iconic album—the best-selling debut album ever—contemplated and offered as reasonable consideration.  Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Axl Rose has released 15 songs of original material in 25 years.  And counting.  I get the spirit.  I really do.  But it reeks of mothball desperation and is every bit as stupefying as posing scenarios about Norman Greenbaum or J.D. Salinger.  A quarter of century is, well, a quarter of a century.  All together now:  15 songs of original material (that was mocked and ignored and landed on Wikipedia’s list of worst ever albums) in 25 years.  And counting.  Facts are our friends.

Meanwhile, Slash pumps out multiple charting singles every two years.  Slash and Duff broke a second time in VR and won a Grammy.  Izzy has a mountain of grass roots solo material.  And even Adler has kicked out badass rockers like “Good to be Bad.”

Axl Rose isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, but if someone slowly explains to him that Slash (and Duff) are currently eviscerating his quarter century of wannabe king childishness, self-indulgence and irrelevance, then we Gn’R fans will hear original Gn’R music.  I’m set either way.  If Axl Rose waffles with Slash and Duff in the fold, I’ll be cranking my next killer Slash MKC album in the very near future.

2 hours ago, P1g Vomit said:

Oh yeah, Slash's snake pit, libetard, and the conspirator albums were such hot sellers. Slash basically had 6 albums that bombed and one that actually did sell. thats quite a batting average to be proud of. CD went platnium only being available in one store and sold about four million worldwide, about the same as contraband Slashs most successful album with out Axl.

Atleast Axl didn't release albums like libertad and aint life grand, those albums were such bombs they should have been dropped from the Enola Gay.

Slash and Duff spit shine their Grammy for Best Hard Rock performance for “Slither.”  And they were nominated for Grammies for best rock song and album (“Fall to Pieces” and Contraband).  They were likewise nominated for rock song of the year in the Radio Music Awards.  And they were nominated by Billboard for rock artist of the year.

Axl?  From Wikipedia:  The list of music considered the worst consists of albums or songs that have been considered the worst music ever made by various combinations of music critics, television broadcasters (such as MTV), radio stations, composers and public polls.  Chinese Democracy, Guns N' Roses (2008).  Popular music historian Stephen Davis named it "the worst album ever." "Chinese Democracy is the worst album I have heard in years, if not, in all my life of listening to music." The "terrible" record was included in Wired magazine's unranked list of the "5 Audio Atrocities to Throw Down a Sonic Black Hole", and placed first in Guitar Player's "10 Awful Albums by 10 Amazing Bands".  In Time Out New York, both music editor Steve Smith and columnist Jay Ruttenberg named Chinese Democracy as the worst record of 2008.

Slash has been cluster-bombing the charts since ’03.  Duff bombed and sprayed all over the charts with VR.

Charting bombs--Slash:

“By the Sword” reached #25 in 2010.  “Back from Cali” reached #24 in 2010.  “Beautiful Dangerous” reached #11 in 2010.  “You’re a Lie” peaked at #1 in 2012.  “Standing in the Sun” hit #4 in 2012.  “Anastasia” reached #6 in 2012.  “World on Fire” peaked at #1 in 2014.  “Bent to Fly” peaked at #3 in 2014.

Slash and Duff play bombs.  Highest YT views, single clip:

“Fall to Pieces” more than 19 million.  “Slither” more than 18 million.  “Anastasia” more than 12 million.  “Dirty Little Thing” more than 7 million.  “The Last Fight” more than 5 million.  “She Builds Quick Machines” almost 5 million.

Targeting The Axl Rose Band total plays is like trying to locate a mute camel jerking in the desert without night vision.  Highest YT views, single clip:

“This I Love” 4.4 million

Slash and Duff sporting their Grammy and blowing up YT vs. Axl’s shameful place on Wikipedia’s worst albums of all time.  Hmm…

But fortunately for Gn’R fans and one Axl Rose, Slash and Duff are now bombing American stadiums and eviscerating the two-decade Axl Rose debacle that was a constant source of mockery and contempt, including “Chinese” with its bloated budget, revolving door of band members that could fill a bus, and sleeper mid-tempo, piano pieces that were the dog’s ass of jokes and made the late night talk show toilet rounds for years.

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yeah. That too. But I didn't mean that. I think Slash and Duff are shit on their own as well. If they leave GNR they will be as shitty as before rejoining.

You mean other than the Grammy that Slash and Duff won in Velvet Revolver.

And you mean other than Slash’s multiple charting singles from his 3 solo albums, including “You’re a Lie” and “World on Fire” which both peaked at #1.

And, of course, you mean other than the fact that VR and Slash solo smoked any and everything on Axl’s “Chinese” in sales, plays, and downloads. 

2 hours ago, Jw224 said:

Yes, because how many people hear a song or how popular it is really tells of its quality ?. 

Judging by your refusal to acknowledge facts and apply those facts to the OP, your opinion substitutes for facts because it is far more refined than “everybody else’s opinion.”  Yet the opinion of “everybody else” who was initially crucial in your first reply is now inconsequential despite the cite of charting, sales, downloads, plays and so forth.

Beyond this failed logic, your backhandedly state that the public is dumb—it cannot discern for itself what it likes and what it doesn’t.  These same dummies are opening their wallets for albums and songs that they like best and in the greatest numbers, and spending their time playing YT clips that they like best and in the greatest numbers.  “Catcher” is right there on YT for viewing, and presumably on Spotify, iTunes and elsewhere.  And attached to a known band name.  Popular culture is at everyone’s fingertips.  If it’s good, people will buy, listen and watch.  If it sucks, they won’t.  Coca-Cola thought it could reinvent its sugared, carbonated water.  It sucked.  People wanted the original.  But Coca-Cola didn’t wait 23 years to acknowledge that while it thought New Coke was badass, the masses hated it.  Your logic dictates that since the public doesn’t know what in the hell it likes, New Coke rocked because you and a few hundred thousand people with refined “taste” liked it.

Chalk me up in the majority—the class of dummies.  Except I’m even dumber—I actually forked over the cash at Best Buy to purchase “CD” while the majority of dummies rejected it without a listen, abided by word-of-mouth, or waited to test the waters for free on YT.

Anyone who likes Axl’s unending stream of Liberace piano pieces accompanied by guitar that first surfaced on UYI and dominated CD, great for them.  The piano piece in question in this thread has barely received a yawn on YT.  Meanwhile, the factual numbers of Slash alone that I listed directly refute the OP’s contention and crush the 15 songs of original content that Axl released in 25 years.  And counting.

A Grammy or 19 million YT views for “FTP” doesn’t deter you that Axl’s dispensing machine of “Catcher” songs is New Coke as you move the ball?  Cool.  You should dig this.  It’s a piano piece from the era that influenced Axl.  Using your logic, the idiot masses (which includes me) wouldn’t even know that such masterpieces existed or where to find such masterpieces, and yet this “rockin, orchestral accompanied” piano piece that “Catcher,” “Madagascar,” “This I Love” and so on imitates has three times the views of “Catcher.”  We already got the pretentiously tacky blazer, so just throw some lyrics on this, and you have your rock Heaven.  And you got some tapping, to boot!

6 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

 

You're not doing yourself any favours. You're acting like just because you state these facts it makes everyone else's opinion irrelevant. That's not how it works I'm sorry. Is the fact that slash has charted 7 singles since CD was released supposed to make me realise my opinion is wrong and that Catcher is a shit song? I really don't give a crap what Slash has done, or what has more YouTube views in the context of whether or not I like this song. You're being dismissive of other people's opinions and acting like just because you're stating facts you can be. 

“Everyone else’s opinion” is reflected in sales, charting, YT, Spotify, and terrestrial and satellite radio.  As well as Grammy voters.  Take up your problem with “everybody else’s opinion,” not my citing of facts that concretely represent their opinion.

35 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

According to JustanUrchin Gnam Gnam Style is the greatest song ever written. Also Catcher In The Rye was not released as a single so comparing it with others singles with music videos is irrelevant.

Your reply is intellectually dishonest.  The question was whether “Catcher” was the best song since ’91 by any Guns member.  The question was not a comparison between musical genres.  Nor was it a question about the “greatest song written,” whatever that means.

27 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

I mean, it's your opinion, but when you start saying things like "in the land of reality" trying to make your opinion seem superior to someone else's it makes it hard to take you seriously, at all. 

Facts are my opinion, in your opinion.  Slither won a Grammy.  Fact.  Slash has charted 7 singles since "CD" was released.  Fact.  YT views for the various songs are facts.  A crochet video has more views than the song in question.  Fact.  The song in question is a piano piece.  Fact.

My opinion is superior to no one.  But facts are superior to opinion.  It's hard to take anyone seriously who cannot differentiate fact from opinion, and in the face of stated facts, looks to demean the poster of fact as not serious.

You’re just shitting us with “Catcher” being the best song since ’91, right?  “Slither” won a Grammy for best hard rock performance. 

Since Axl released the forgettable “CD” mess nearly a decade ago to late-night talk show jokes and crickets in the rock listening world, Slash has charted SEVEN singles, TWO of which peaked at #1 on U.S. Mainstream.

But let’s consult YT for further confirmation.  Highest YT views, single clip:

“Fall to Pieces” more than 19 million

“Slither” more than 18 million

“Anastasia” more than 12 million

“Dirty Little Thing” more than 7 million

“The Last Fight” more than 5 million

“She Builds Quick Machines” almost 5 million

“Come On, Come in” nearly 4 million

“You’re a Lie” more than 3 million

“Back from Cali” nearly 3 million

“By the Sword” nearly 2 million

YAWN

How to do neat crochet braids by Freedom Styles nearly 500,000

“Catcher in the Rye” less than 400,000.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph.  At least note in the OP that you think “Catcher” is a lovely Axl piano piece while acknowledging that in the land of reality, “Slither” beat down the Grammies and Slash has charted seven singles, including two that reached #1 since the Axl Rose debacle known as “CD” alienated even more fans in droves and drowned the band whose name he retained into oblivion outside of any third world county.

“Catcher” is yet another mid-tempo, overproduced forgettable track on an album holding listeners hostage for multiple head-dunkings and waterboarding of said yawner tracks.  “Catcher,” and the mood-killing bloat of “CD” as a whole, is so irrelevant to rock fans and unrecognizable to Guns fans that one poster in this thread alone thought that it was Spacehog and another thought it was a knock-off of Duran Duran.  That is funny except…it isn’t.

“Catcher” makes anything by Trixter, Winger, Warrant and the Nelson twins seem like sincere, badass rock.  Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Reading through this thread literally makes my head hurt.

Axl has released 15 songs of original content in 25 years and counting.  In that same period, Izzy has released 11 albums.  Velvet Revolver won a Grammy.  And Slash churns out solo/MKC albums every 2 years that charts multiple singles.  Hell, even Adler was in heavy rotation on Octane with “Good to be Bad.”

Axl released his material nearly a decade ago under the Guns name.  Given charting and sales numbers of that album, he would’ve been touring clubs and theatres without the band name.  And, presumably, “CD” was the best material recorded by that crew of ever-revolving musicians since it was the first original material released in 17 years.

Smdh at anyone who ignores known facts, 25 years of history, and Axl’s notorious and repeated failure to uphold his word and commitments.  These are men who are old enough to be grandfathers.  Axl did what he did for the peak years of his adult life, while the other four pumped out music.  Three of them broke a second time in VR.  Axl toured, by himself, on the back of the band name and of the songs recorded and released from '87-'91.

Guns is touring with 4/5 of the original contractual and recording members.  In American stadiums.  Right now.  Is Axl Rose on the verge of releasing “CD2,” whatever the hell that is or isn’t, with no recording performers on that mythical “vault” of material active in the band save for a keyboardist and a drummer?  Shall we move on from the bust of “CD” and the myth of “CD2?”  There is a 4/5 tour bringing down stadiums as we speak.

6 hours ago, fallglimmer said:

because Frank is the official drummer of Guns n Roses and we have been given no reason to think Axl would fire him?

Hmm.  Where is that CSI:GnR guy/gal I saw in another thread?  We need to get him/her on the case.  You declared:  “Frank isn't going anywhere, Steven will keep doing his two or so songs a night from time to time and that will be that. He isn't coming back full time.”  Those are presented as factual statements.  Without sourcing.

Adler’s third replacement drummer is the “official” drummer?  I’m looking at the band’s official site, and I see nada indicating which performer is “official” or anything indicating who is even in the band. 

What is this band’s business entity?  Is it a continuation of a partnership that commenced in ’91?  A partnership merged into a new entity?  Who are the partners in the partnership?  Does Adler once again have an equity share in the partnership?  How does the partnership or other agreement assign decision-making about touring performers?  Recording performers?  And are these matters separate and distinct from who retains ownership of the brand (band) name?

Your statements also happen to be contrary to comments of the majority in this thread (and on social media) as they envision Adler’s role.  And your statements don't jive with the known facts of the surge in fan enthusiasm when Adler hits the stage and reviewers’ comments (who’ve attended shows) about the electricity in the stadium when Adler appears.

In good fun regarding factual statements versus opinion couched as fact, here is mine:  Adler’s grandpa was a televangelist who in 1990 boldly predicted Stevie’s triumphant return to his band in 2016.  He further predicted that his grandson’s third replacement would become an OTR driver carrying his kit in his rig and drumming at truck stops by 2017.

11 hours ago, Billsfan said:

Minority?! It's common sense. What evidence do you possibly have to support a theory that Frank's going anywhere? I think before you challenge something like that you should source something yourself.

You are attributing a “theory” to me that is false.  I have made no such statements.

The poster made declaratory statements of fact.  I asked him to source his “facts” for us.  He has not.