Izzy_Toronto

5 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

indeed, he can't possibly be a genuine fan 

 

lets get back on topic, izzy's contributions up to UYI makes it an obvious case that he was fundamental member that probably deserved equal pay but because of his reluctance to play axl's game of saying yes all the time, he chose to resign 

there is nothing wrong with what he did or how he has conducted himself since 

if anything slash and duff are responsible for getting him back in the fold, they can't possibly sit around as innocent parties to this and my feeling is that they do feel some guilt as does maybe axl, but he would rather avoid/downplay the subject to avoid a larger pay day, not very classy to your boy hood friend who made the band famous with you 

my feeling is that they will somehow make amends, i just hope it doesn't fall off the tracks 

It's a complete shame Izzy isn't in the mix with the reunion. I'm sure there is a lot of money to be made. Axl could have made this happen but he chose not to for his own reasons. Slash obviously needs the money cause of his divorce and maybe Duff was outnumbered. With all the fans saying that Izzy should just get up there and play and not think about the cash are wrong. Sure it would bug him to get less than he deserves.

5 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

I get the feeling, watching Izzy's last shows, that he was going through a bout of depression/anxiety. Duff's biography:

I could see right there and then [when the Oslo gig in August, 1991, was cancelled because Axl was in France] that Izzy wasn't going to last. The cadence of his walk was different now: I saw it clearly as the lurch of a bicycle with a misshapen wheel. His face was drawn, his eyes blank, his body language exhausted. He had made it with us, sober, touring. But he couldn't stand pissing off the fans an torturing the crew. He had to confront that reality sober. And at the same time he had to deal with Slash, Matt, and me trying to bury our frustrations by obliterating ourselves with drink and drugs. It was only a matter of time now.  

And who could blame him? Even in the best of circumstances, facing giant stadium crowds has got to be daunting. And his circumstances sucked. Axl, Slash and Duff were all such a mess by that point. And Izzy had not even been sober for two years. Cantor also said that Izzy was upset by all the money they were wasting on videos and jets and parties and curfew fines. They were making shit loads of cash and throwing it all away.

And I wonder what the start of the Illusions albums actually looked like. Izzy said in an interview that he asked Axl if they could get on a schedule and that Axl threw a fit. Probably went something like this.

"We'll meet at the studio at 3:00 on Thursday."

Izzy shows up at 3:15.

Slash and Duff show up at 7:00.

Axl shows up at midnight on Saturday.

All the spare time is spent on booze and coke.

Izzy stops showing up after a few weeks, the rest of the band feels like he just doesn't care.

I think in the beginning there were three alpha-dogs in the band- Axl, Slash and Izzy. Izzy's voice was muted by heroin for a while but when he sobered up he probably felt like he should have an equal say in the band's direction again. But it seems like it was too late for that.  Steven was kicked out and the UYI's became a monster that I doubt Izzy was ever comfortable with.  Sometimes I wonder if money isn't the only reason Izzy isn't there now- maybe S/D/A thought Izzy would upset the power balance if he was too involved. Things with the band are obviously delicate. Axl might be intimidated (I don't know if that's the right word) by Izzy in a way that he just isn't by Slash. Slash wanted Axl in his band right away, he was impressed by his talent from the start. Izzy knew Axl when he was nothing.

Apparently in one of the bio's it was said that GNR never made any money on the Illusion tour. Only in the last leg (Skin N Bones) they cut the backup singers and extra musicians and Axl stared to show up on time they made some money

3 minutes ago, Sunset Gardner said:

this tour, i think double talkin' jive is a nightly acknowledgement to izzy.  

Exactly. I know he was owed some money from the band in terms of royalties and he wouldn't play until they paid him but Axl seemed happy on stage when Izzy was there. Guess we'll never know

6 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Some interesting quotes from Marc Canter:

Gilby was a perfect fit for the live GNR even better than Izzy. There really is no one that could replace Izzy with the songwriting stuff that he had to offer. If the band was going to stay together, it was going to be different. I don't think Gilby would have had that much to offer that would have been used. The way I see it if Slash and Duff had stuck around, the song writing would have come from Slash Duff and Axl. It would have not been the same without Izzy but still very good. There are many old GNR songs that Izzy didn't really have a hand in and they worked out well. Slash was not going to work with Paul and Axl was not going to work on all 12 songs that Slash thought the band was going to do. I do belive that if Slash and Duff didn't sign over their rights to the name, there would have been a much better chance that the Slash and Axl would have met in the middle and work it out.

On Izzy returning to the band in '95:

Izzy was back for a short while. I thought they should have all gone in a room together and write but no one would listen to me so it fell apart fast.

On Gilby being better than Izzy Live:

Not the 1985 to 1988 Izzy. I'm talking about the 1991 Izzy, he didn't move on stage. It was cool to see him sing the 2 songs but he didn't add anything to the swow and his guitar playing was so so. It was not the same Izzy

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/196898-gilby/

 

I had read that Axl was upset with Gilby in regards to him releasing Pawn Shop Guitars. I guess Axl thought Gilby would share some material with the band. I agree there were some songs on that album that were pretty good. 

I watch a lot of videos of the whole 91 tour. Izzy looked like he was bored. Guess the sobriety didn't fit with touring and being on stage. Who knows what was the atmosphere behind stage. Now that they're all sober I'm sure Izzy would be more into it

28 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I was reading Chinese Whispers a few days back and ran across these gems:

 

The Ju Ju Hounds project folds without much fanfare and Izzy suddenly has time on his hands. On 03/10/95, he joins Duff and Matt on stage, as they all play in an all-star band at the opening of The Joint, a new Las Vegas venue within Hard Rock Hotel and Casino. Little do they know that the next official Guns show would be performed there - only not during their tenure.

Suddenly, Izzy's available.

 

"Once in 1995, I went to ring the doorbell at [Axl's] place, and he opened the door. (Izzy, Hard Rock, 07/01)

"And I go up... there he is. He's like, 'Hey, man! Glad to see you!' Gives me a big hug and shows me round his house. It was great." (Izzy, Classic Rock, 2001)

"In April, 1995, Duff calls me again: 'I'm trying to compose new songs for the guys in GN'R. Come and give me a hand.' It made five [years] that I'd left Guns but I said myself: 'Well shit, after all, why not?' Duff and I wrote ten songs in the space of week. We even recorded them as demos." (French Izzy interview, 2001)

"There's a lot of debate over who's going to play guitar. Axl and I were having an argument about it yesterday (04/12/95)." (Slash, New York Times, 04/20/95)

The argument could've well been related to Izzy's sudden return to the Guns camp, and his possible re-entering to the band.

"[Izzy]'s been writing; he wrote some stuff with Duff. He wants to write songs, but he doesn't wanna deal with the whole thing... He's so laid back. He doesn't want to deal any pressure... Izzy's Izzy." (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

"Izzy agrees with writing stuff but he's not interested in touring... He doesn't want to deal with Axl." (Slash, Sao Paulo Journal, 07/21/95)

"Izzy jammed with Snakepit in Chicago, and we did a Stones song [Bitch], and it was great to see him." (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

"Probably a month later, one night [Axl] calls me [and] we got into the issue of me leaving Guns N' Roses. I told him how it was on my side. Told him exactly how I felt about it and why I left.... But, I mean he had a fucking notepad. I could hear him [turning the pages] going, 'Well, ah, you said in 1982... ' He was bringing up a lot of really weird old shit. I'm like, whatever, man. But that's the last time I talked to him. (Izzy, Classic Rock, 2001)

 

Izzy almost came back into the band.

 

Meanwhile, Izzy came back to ring Axl's doorbell, which may have been the first of those since 1995.

 

"To tell the truth, [Izzy] visited Axl's house about two weeks ago." (Duff, Burrn Magazine, 12/99)

"[Axl] casually mentions that a while back his security camera caught an unannounced visit by Izzy Stradlin to his front gate, but quickly adds that he had no interest in getting together with the old school buddy and former collaborator, whom he originally followed to Los Angeles from Indiana. 'It wouldn't be healthy for me,' Rose explains." (Rolling Stone, 01/00)

"Somebody told him that Axl is not there answering over the interphone at the gate. First he said 'Wait a minute' and he came back and said 'He is gone.' Izzy said 'OK' and went back. There is always emotional thing with GN'R. At least the old GN'R." (Duff, Burrn Magazine, 12/99)

"Axl called me when he had the plan to play Rock In Rio. I don't believe that he hoped to reform the group as a whole because I am the only one that he called, but, in any event, I declined the offer." (Izzy, Guitar & Bass Magazine, 2001)

Therefore, Axl might've considered Izzy to play with Buckethead and Robin.

Axl went back to the demo tape Duff and Izzy prepared in 1995.

"In '95, Duff and me recorded songs for the band. We made a tape that went nowhere. Then, a couple of months ago I have a message on my answering machine: 'Yo! It's Axl, I need a copy of the songs that you did.' There was one called 'Down by the Ocean' or 'Down by the Sea', they may have used it, I haven't come back to know nothing." (Izzy, Popular Magazine, 2001)

 

I wonder if there was any talk between Axl and Izzy during the 93 illusion tour (the 5 shows Izzy came back for) about Izzy coming back to the band......wonder if there was a mutual desire or an offer on the table

12 hours ago, RONIN said:

"Slash and I started trying to write new stuff with other guitar players added to the mix. This was the first time we’d written without Izzy to bounce ideas off of and to bring ideas of his own." (Duff, autobiography)

"Duff, Axl, Matt, Gilby and I got together on and off to try and write new material, which didn't prove inspiring at all." (Slash, Autobiography)

"Without Izzy... the way we used to write wasn't all sitting in a room and trying to force ourselves to be a family. We just were." (Duff, Metal Edge, 06/99)

"By that point, the support group I'd always enjoyed to help me deal with Axl was gone - Izzy was the last one in the band who'd been able to get through to him creatively. Between Duff and me... we just didn't have the proper tools to communicate with him effectively." (Slash, Autobiography)

Exactly. I think the entire band were big fans of the songs that Izzy brought to preproduction. Would have been a good start point to write a record back then. From all the solo albums, the Ju Ju Hounds album sounded more GNR than the rest

6 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

I don't think it had anything to do with legalities. Izzy wanted to distance himself from GNR and do his own solo thing. Why go solo only to play a set full of GNR songs?

He could have added 1 or 2 songs to each show. His set lists from that tour included a lot of covers. Would love to see him do his own version of Pretty Tied Up or Brownstone 

2 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

I don't think Izzy wanted to do any similar to GnR in his solo career. Actually, according to Jimmy Ashhurst,one of the reasons why he stopped the Juju's project was cause people especially on the US were asking constantly for GnR songs on his shows. 

 

I saw an interview with the ju ju hounds on youtube and they were taking questions from radio listeners and a lot of questions were about potential GNR songs being played on their tour. Izzy acted like he was into it. My guess that they didn't play any GNR songs were due to a potential legal issue with the band. Remember Izzy played with GNR in 93 and he was owed money from the band so maybe there is something with that

1 minute ago, magnumpi said:

I don't disagree.  You're 100% corr3ct.

But n the situation is that izzy and Adler are in the trash bin so it's only natural for people including myself to serve as champions for them.  It's only natural.  I don't understand the need to bash band members just because of axl worshipm

Personally zeppelin always will be my favorite band but I don't worship any of the member nor do I view any of them as gods or any blasphemous thing like that.  I like band as a whole and I don't favor any one person over the other.  I may champion bonham or jpj but that's again a naturtle reaction to them being less in the public limelight.

Certainly if Robert Plant is mad at john Paul Jones I wouldn't start bashing the contributions of the one who I may disagree with in the controversy.  

Th3 mentality of the Axl worshipers seems very 5th grade to me and it's tiresome to read.  I don't have any interest in any of the drivel.

It's true no Guns album wouldn't be what it was without the entire band but in regards to the tour you would think the original 5 would do the tour. They owed it to the fans. Obviously those Net Worth sites that pins the artists as multi-millionaires are false. They need the money some more than others. The promoters should have insisted that Izzy be part of the equation. An album would follow suit. Hopefully Axl does a solid and involve Izzy in the American leg on the tour

7 minutes ago, magnumpi said:

I googled Estranged

 

It credits izzy with additional lead guitar, so at some point in the same there is a lead with izzy.

Don't understand the obsession wi5h minimizing izzy s contribution.

Is there some sort of cult that bashes everyone that they perceive out of favor with Axl?

 

There's a video on YouTube with top 20 Guns N Roses riffs. 10 of the songs were Izzy riffs. When you have one of most recognized and talented lead guitarists in the world, it's hard to think about Izzy but the true fans know who he was and is

9 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Not that I think Izzy couldn't come up with a killer solo (I always expect nothing but amazing things from Izzy) but that solo definitely sounds like Slash to me. I'm 124% sure it's him.

124% lol. You're probably right.  Maybe a typo on the liner notes

5 minutes ago, Słash said:

The last solo on Estranged is Slash

No way that is Izzy 

Maybe. Could be typo about Izzy. You never know 

12 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

WHAT?

Izzy has rhythm and lead guitars credit on Estranged. Last solo doesn't sound like Slash. Sounds very loose....must be Izzy

3 minutes ago, ES175 said:

Also, Did Izzy play the opening solo to Back Off Bitch? It's definitely his tone. definitely his most prominent solo, if not his best (i prefer the nightrain solo). 

Yeah intro solo on Back Off Bitch and last solo on Estranged 

1 minute ago, ES175 said:

I think Shannon Hoon is somewhere there in the mix as well. 

It's Izzy Axl and Shannon Hoon on lead vocals. Great song. Opposite of How Will it Go from the Ju Ju record

1 hour ago, MADDOGJONES said:

Let’s play your idea out a little for fun… If you’re stating that Izzy’s fee for touring should be based off the amount of songwriting credits he has in GN’R (which your post alludes to, as does your comparison to duff) then logically you have to end up quantifying something, so we have to look at the numbers and apply that rule to everyone.

When we do we see that Axl has the most songwriting credits in GNR (not including GN’R credits since the old band broke up), Slash the second, Izzy third and Duff fourth (Steven and Matt have none). So playing this through, he still shouldn’t be getting as much as Slash or Axl, but in this hypothetical situation (based off song credits only) he should be getting more than duff. This of course is not how you work out touring revenue, it’s how you work out songwriting revenue, but in this case that's how the order would go.

This might be a good start for how you work out who gets what in a partnership along with other things such as contribution to business matters etc, which is pretty much how they did work it out back in the day. Axl had the biggest stake, then Slash, then Izzy and then Duff. Izzy sold his shares and the percentages were changed, but they still reflect the order as before only sans Izzy.

From what I remember about the Appetite and Lies royalties went was that Axl got 25 Izzy Slash and Duff got 20 and Steven got 15. After Steven got fired who knows how it got split up. Also when Izzy left the band he sold his shares of the band to the rest of them (I doubt this has anything to do with royalties cause I'm sure they're still getting paid). Maybe this band ownership has something to do with Izzy not getting a fair share. Who knows? I can't blame the guy for not agreeing to a 5 figure payout per show. I would love to see Izzy do a tour of his solo work and see him play some GNR songs like he had initially intended them to be played  (example the early demo of Bad Obsession). We can only hope

Maddog there is an interview on youtube where Axl talks about the songwriting process on Patience and he had said that Izzy wrote it and all Axl wrote was the ending. There was never anyou article or credit to Slash's on Think About You. Izzy wrote it about Alex Van Halen's ex wife who Izzy had dated. Mr Brownstone was a song Izzy wrote which Axl found the lyrics in a room where Izzy and Steven shared. Slash has said he helped write Brownstone but most probable he helped Izzy elaborate on some of the guitar. Slash had said before that he co-wrote Double Talkin Jive but obviously no credit on the album so most likely an exaggeration on his part. I'm just saying that a Stradlin/Rose duo was as important as a Jagger/Richards or a Lennon/McCartney.  

The thing about Izzy's departure from the band in 1991 was that Axl tried to make him sign a contract to take less royalties due to him not contributing to the band's business or his lack of effort during the tour. But I see Izzy's contributions to the song writing as a huge contribution and big factor to Guns N Roses as a whole. Nothing against Duff but what did he contribute to Guns? Apparently during the Appetite album he wrote It's So Easy and Rocket Queen was a co-write also from interviews he has stated that he taught Steven how and what to drum on the songs but on the Illusion albums? Just because Duff runs around on stage and dud some interviews he would deserve more than Izzy? I think not. I really do blame Axl for the break up of GNR and I truly believe he regretted his behavior with regards to dealing with Izzy during the Illusion tour. Slash has said in an interview before that when GNR started writing for a new album after the Illusion tour that it wasn't the same. It was Axl against Duff and Slash. He said that Izzy was the glue and go between that kept them together. I believe theyou were all fans of Izzy songs and that's why there are so many of his songs on the Illusion albums. Also for the Appetite and Lies albums they say are all co-writers but from past interviews I concluded that:

Mr Brownstone, Think About You, Used to Love Her and Patience (Axl wrote the solo vocal over the chorus at the end of the song) are Izzy songs. 

Move To The City, Night Train, Out Ta Get Me, Paradise City, My Michelle, Sweet Child O Mine, You're Crazy, Anything Goes are all Izzy co-writes. 

From all the solo records or band albums Duff and Slash made, as well as Chinese Democracy those records can't even compare to the Ju Ju Hounds record. That album would have been the core of a new Guns album but Axl fucked up and we never got to see it happen. 

Sorry for the vent. I'm just pissed that Izzy isn't not part of the reunion. It's not fair. He should be paid equally as Slash and Duff. Obviously there are legalities in regards of Axl owning the band name and Slash and Duff still own a portion of the Guns brand but this is a tour and Izzy should expect to be paid fairly. I'll see them in Buffalo this year but I'll have my Where's Izzy t-shirt in the pit.