Kurt Cobain is rolling over in his grave

[GnRIzzy]

Yes, let's put a guy with absolutely no talent in a video game to influence teenagers to get a girl pregnant, force her to do drugs, then end up blowing your face with a shoutgun.

Great news. Just let the fucker die already.

[Guest Satanisk_Slakt]

I've never understood the had towards this great musician.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Yes, let's put a guy with absolutely no talent in a video game to influence teenagers to get a girl pregnant, force her to do drugs, then end up blowing your face with a shoutgun.

Great news. Just let the fucker die already.

No one said anything about your father, man.

[dirtylenny]

Yes, let's put a guy with absolutely no talent in a video game to influence teenagers to get a girl pregnant, force her to do drugs, then end up blowing your face with a shoutgun.

Great news. Just let the fucker die already.

Similar things can be said about MJ.

Yeah, talk about irony, the guys sig says MICHAEL JACKSON 1958 - FOREVER. No dude, i think you'll find thats 1958 - DEAD AS DILLINGER IN 2009. Just let the fucker die already man!!! Oh wait, actually, you don't have much choice in the matter, do you? Cuz he is...FOREVER...dead...as in worm food. Actually, i can't imagine worms tucking into that much fuckin plastic.

Oh and incidentally, the guy with no talent knocked your heroes album Dangerous off the top of billboard charts, pretty good going for a guy with no talent i'd say.

Edited August 30, 2009 by dirtylenny

[Vincent Vega]

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

[Guest Satanisk_Slakt]

Brat? Kurt was much, but he wasn't a brat.

[GUNSNROSES513]

Yeah I saw that. Encouraging kids to play guitar? It's encouraging them to play dragonforce power metal devoid of all feeling, nothing original. Guitar hero, fuck off. Next thing they'll be having a cartoon Salvador Dali teaching kids to paint with a joystick. Again, fuck off.

In my most humble opinion of course.

I agree. I used to like guitar hero and then i played guitar. I still suck but from little i can play i get more good feelings then pressing plastic colored buttons. Your limited to what you can do on a plastic controller. With a guitar you got blues, rock, metal, jazz, punk and what not, and any crazy stuff you can improvise and use crazy effects to if thats your thing. Not to mention there is different tunings, pick ups, strings, slides, finger picking, picks, and you can write your own music. The sky is the limit with a real guitar.

On topic, this is pretty disrespectful to Kurt. He would of never wanted this.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

This thread is to discuss Kurt Cobain being blatantly exploited on a shitty video game, not about his suicide or the controversy surrounding it. If you wish to discuss the latter, then by all means create a thread about and see the response you'll recieve. We all know how popular you are on these forums

TWAT.

[Vincent Vega]

Brat? Kurt was much, but he wasn't a brat.

He was an elitist--A prototype of those hipster fucks who think they're cooler than you or ''more cultured'' than you because they know all the newest underground indie bands. The ironic hipsters. The guys who sit in Starbucks with their laptops, pretending they're a big deal. Kurt Cobain is the granddaddy of that unfortunate little subculture.

Reading his interviews, and watching quite a few, he just comes off as an arrogant know it all--He felt he was somehow on higher moral ground or something than other artists because he postured about how much he hated fame and pretended he wasn't a sellout, while at the same time putting videos on MTV, going to the MTV Awards, doing interviews in RS and other mags, and signing with Geffen, the biggest fucking record company in the world at the time. Yeah, really going all Punk and against the grain there

He was an industry whore as much as any big artist is, but tried to be all pompous by pretending he wasn't and act all high and mighty, and tried to deceive his fans into thinking he was some kind of un-commercial messiah. And then he popped himself off, why, because he couldn't deal with the fame? He brought it all on himself, he asked for it every step of the way--And then he couldn't be a man and live with the results.

Edited August 30, 2009 by MetalForever

[Snake Eyes]

I think the degree he is idealised and his personality has overshadowed his music, influencing a lot of peoples opinions to hate the band. If people didn't know Nirvana's history, maybe they'd judge a little different. I think he's as much a dick as Axl Rose is but I'm still a fan of both bands, because it's about the fuckin music.

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

This thread is to discuss Kurt Cobain being blatantly exploited on a shitty video game, not about his suicide or the controversy surrounding it. If you wish to discuss the latter, then by all means create a thread about and see the response you'll recieve. We all know how popular you are on these forums

TWAT.

I wouldn't mess with you tonight mate.

[GnRIzzy]

Yes, let's put a guy with absolutely no talent in a video game to influence teenagers to get a girl pregnant, force her to do drugs, then end up blowing your face with a shoutgun.

Great news. Just let the fucker die already.

Similar things can be said about MJ.

Yeah, talk about irony, the guys sig says MICHAEL JACKSON 1958 - FOREVER. No dude, i think you'll find thats 1958 - DEAD AS DILLINGER IN 2009. Just let the fucker die already man!!! Oh wait, actually, you don't have much choice in the matter, do you? Cuz he is...FOREVER...dead...as in worm food. Actually, i can't imagine worms tucking into that much fuckin plastic.

Oh and incidentally, the guy with no talent knocked your heroes album Dangerous off the top of billboard charts, pretty good going for a guy with no talent i'd say.

Oh really buddy? Kurt Cobain was untalented, he was the worst singer, the worst guitar player, and the most idiotic moron ever. MJ was talented you dumb fuck, and didn't give his wife drugs whilst she was pregnant. Sorry but MJ was not just a musician he actually donated to charity, he actually inspired people to donate and give. Sorry buddy, competely irrelavant fact there. We are talking about Kurt Cobain not Michael Jackson. Billboard charts, eh? Too bad that Americans are dumb fucks that fully believe in the media just like you. Why does MJ's album go number 1 ALL OVER THE WORLD except for America? Exactly. Because of idiots like you.

Dangerous is one of the best albums, so I have no clue why your even mentioning that fucker's album with MJ's.

@CryptElf - Everyone, even his HATERS know that he had talent. Why would he have the greatest selling album of all time? Why would he have one of the most successful concert tours of all time? Why would more people watch MJ's memorial service then Obama's inauguration?

@Jumpin' Jack Flash - Look dude, I think your a funny guy and all, but my Dad isn't Kurt Cobain.

[dirtylenny]

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

Did it ever occur to you, maybe, that the fact that he DID kill himself, despite having a young daughter could mean that he was going through something quite incomprehensible? Something perhaps that me or you can't really understand because we don't occupy as a unique a part of human history as Kurt Cobain did?

I hear this a lot, this party line that Kurt haters spew out everytime they wanna pop at him and i find it quite cute, very cute in fact. On the one hand you have this deep noble benevolent concern for the well-being and life of one human being and you IMMEDIATELY show it up and show yourself up and show where you're coming from as a person and exactly how noble your intentions are and how sensitive you are by saying that a guy who committed suicide because he couldn't handle the pressure of his life is a "selfish bitter egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame".

And if you were so concerned about the feelings of Frances Cobain you wouldn't be sitting at a computer tearing her dead father a new asshole 15 years after his death.

There is something so deeply...nazi-ish about this down with the weak mentality that people display everytime they laugh at and taunt and berate Kurt Cobain for committing suicide, all the while trying to veil their blatant malice with the "he didn't care for his daughters feelings" line.

He was an elitist--A prototype of those hipster fucks who think they're cooler than you because they know all the newest underground indie bands. Reading his interviews, and watching quite a few, he just comes off as an arrogant know it all--He felt he was somehow on higher moral ground or something than other artists because he postured about how much he hated fame and pretended he wasn't a sellout, while at the same time putting videos on MTV, going to the MTV Awards, doing interviews in RS and other mags, and signing with Geffen, the biggest fucking record company in the world at the time. Yeah, really going all Punk and against the grain there

He was an industry whore as much as any big artist is, but tried to be all pompous by pretending he wasn't and act all high and mighty, and tried to deceive his fans into thinking he was some kind of un-commercial messiah.

Actually i think you'll find Kurt Cobain frequently referred to himself as a corporate rock whore, they had t shirts printed to that effect i think you'll find

Edited August 30, 2009 by dirtylenny

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

I think the degree he is idealised and his personality has overshadowed his music, influencing a lot of peoples opinions to hate the band. If people didn't know Nirvana's history, maybe they'd judge a little different. I think he's as much a dick as Axl Rose is but I'm still a fan of both bands, because it's about the fuckin music.

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

This thread is to discuss Kurt Cobain being blatantly exploited on a shitty video game, not about his suicide or the controversy surrounding it. If you wish to discuss the latter, then by all means create a thread about and see the response you'll recieve. We all know how popular you are on these forums

TWAT.

I wouldn't mess with you tonight mate.

Bingo Who cares about the band members personal issues? It's about the tunes, man...the tunes.

[GnRIzzy]

Alright, so what tunes make Nirvana so great? Besides Smells Like Teen Spirit.

[Guest floyd the barber]

Alright, so what tunes make Nirvana so great? Besides Smells Like Teen Spirit.

Smells Like Teen Spirit is Nirvana's most mainstream track. Don't base your judgment on Smells Like Teen Spirit.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Alright, so what tunes make Nirvana so great? Besides Smells Like Teen Spirit.

[Vincent Vega]

Who cares what Kurt Cobain would think or would've thought or felt about this?

We should show as much concern for what Kurt's feelings would be as he did for the feelings of his daughter when he put the shotgun in his mouth.

He was a selfish, bitter, egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame.

Did it ever occur to you, maybe, that the fact that he DID kill himself, despite having a young daughter could mean that he was going through something quite incomprehensible? Something perhaps that me or you can't really understand because we don't occupy as a unique a part of human history as Kurt Cobain did?

I hear this a lot, this party line that Kurt haters spew out everytime they wanna pop at him and i find it quite cute, very cute in fact. On the one hand you have this deep noble benevolent concern for the well-being and life of one human being and you IMMEDIATELY show it up and show yourself up and show where you're coming from as a person and exactly how noble your intentions are and how sensitive you are by saying that a guy who committed suicide because he couldn't handle the pressure of his life is a "selfish bitter egotistical little brat who wasn't normal and couldn't function in the world of fame".

And if you were so concerned about the feelings of Frances Cobain you wouldn't be sitting at a computer tearing her dead father a new asshole 15 years after his death.

There is something so deeply...nazi-ish about this down with the weak mentality that people display everytime they laugh at and taunt and berate Kurt Cobain for committing suicide, all the while trying to veil their blatant malice with the "he didn't care for his daughters feelings" line.

Come on, look, I like you as a poster and I respect your views on a lot of things BUT

That's a deep, deep character flaw. When you have kids, the rules change. By killing himself, he was thinking SOLELY of himself. He wasn't thinking about his daughter, or his wife, or hell even to a much lesser extent his fans. I realize he was a sensitive guy, but there's a line. If you don't believe in the whole "Courtney killed him" theory, than the only one who put the gun in his mouth was Kurt Cobain. I think that's a big sign of selfishness, when you only see your problems and the issues you're facing, and not how you're actions will affect others. You don't think Frances would've loved to have known her father? You don't think Frances NEEDED her father, especially with as big a psycho as her mom is? But because of her father's selfishness, she didn't have her father. He didn't care about himself to stay alive for his daughter. That's imo selfless. That would've been something worthy of praise--If he had the strength or selflessness to fight off these suicidal feelings for his daughter.

I have less sympathy for Kurt than Frances because Kurt ASKED for all the things he got. He formed Nirvana. He signed with Geffen. He made videos and courted the spotlight and went on MTV and all that. He chose to keep making albums and videos even after he realized he hated fame. He could've retired with his millions and done an Axl, gone out of the spotlight completely. He didn't, and still toured and worth music till the last weeks before he killed himself. He chose to kill himself. No one forced him to. How can I feel sorry for Kurt when he created the Hell he lived in, willingly and kept choosing that path each step of the way?

But Frances didn't choose to be born. She didn't choose to the be the daughter of a famous man. She didn't ask for her father to kill himself. She was a baby at the time. That's why I have more sympathy. I have little sympathy for a man who willingly made his own bed and than cried about having to sleep in it. Frances was a child, she did nothing wrong. It's the same reason why anyone feels sorry for someone who loses someone--Because they didn't choose it to happen.

It's in many ways the same thing as being a deadbeat dad. I don't see a lot of sympathy in the world for deadbeat dads, so why sympathy for a guy who basically was the same? He was a deadbeat. But it's overlooked, why? Because he made music people liked? I never see in all this idol worship of Cobain any hint of criticism--It's either you love him or hate him. He's either the saint or the devil. It's the same issue I have with Lennon.

Beyond that, look at what I said above--The guy postured uncommercial while going on MTV, making videos for MTV, signing with Geffen (the most popular rock label in the world at the time). He did interviews with Rolling Stone and other big magazines, played on the MTV awards, hell he even changed his songs lyrics so it could be sold in Walmart. These aren't the actions of a man who hated and avoided fame, but a man who wanted it--and simply couldn't deal with it. There's nothing wrong with doing any of that in and of itself, but when you're a guy who claims he's against this commercialization, while feeding into it and bashing other artists for doing the same things you're doing, you're a hypocrite and a poser, imo.

And to say he ''occupies a unique place in human history''--He wasn't Martin Luther King or Gandhi or George Washington. He didn't liberate a nation, he didn't do anything noteworthy in history outside of putting a shotgun in his mouth.

He was the singer of a short lived band in a just as short lived music genre. Where's grunge today? At least with say, Lennon or Elvis, despite their mountains of faults, they changed the world through their music--Compare the world of say 1960 to 1969, a large part of that change having to do with the Beatles. Where's Cobain's mark on culture? Grunge culture? That too was shortlived. He didn't change the world, maybe music for a few years.

Kurt didn't contribute to any causes, he didn't do anything positive with his wealth as far as I'm aware. You can bash MJ all you want and the man was no saint himself but at least MJ gave something back-- MILLIONS to charities, moreso than most celebs both in music and not. I don't recall hearing of Kurt giving all the money and wealth he so claimed to hate and loathe having to anyone who needed it more than him.

Edited August 30, 2009 by MetalForever

[dirtylenny]

Kurt Cobain was untalented, he was the worst singer

Yeah, he was, wasn't he? I've never been much for good singers to be honest, doesn't interest me, i don't wanna hear perfect slick well produced voices running through every note in the book doing that Christina Aguilera trilling shit. I've always been more partial to the slightly off kilter, the weird, the cracked voices...cuz end of the day, its the passionate that speaks to me, the passion and the message...not whether they can hit notes perfectly.

the worst guitar player

Based on? I'd say he was extremely innovative, at least for the mainstream.

MJ was talented you dumb fuck, and didn't give his wife drugs whilst she was pregnant.

No, he fucked children in an entirely different way, didn't he?

Sorry but MJ was not just a musician he actually donated to charity, he actually inspired people to donate and give. Sorry buddy, competely irrelavant fact there.

Thats alright dear, carry on

Too bad that Americans are dumb fucks that fully believe in the media just like you.

That wasn't a very nice thing to say now was it? What exactly are you saying, he DIDN'T knock Jacko off the number one spot and thats just the media lying to us? Oh, by the way, guess which country MJ was from? Whoops!

Why does MJ's album go number 1 ALL OVER THE WORLD except for America? Exactly. Because of idiots like you.

ALL OVER THE WORLD? You're kidding right? ALL OVER THE WORLD? Not half way, not a quarter of the way but ALL OVER THE WORLD? And now for a dose of reality, MJ was born in America, got famous in America whilst playing American music. Or did you miss that bit?

And again, what does ANY of this have to do in even the vaguest sense with what you were responding to i.e. my saying that you should let the fucker die already just like you said people should for Kurt Cobain?

[GnRIzzy]

Yes, let's put a guy with absolutely no talent in a video game to influence teenagers to get a girl pregnant, force her to do drugs, then end up blowing your face with a shoutgun.

Great news. Just let the fucker die already.

Similar things can be said about MJ.

Yeah, talk about irony, the guys sig says MICHAEL JACKSON 1958 - FOREVER. No dude, i think you'll find thats 1958 - DEAD AS DILLINGER IN 2009. Just let the fucker die already man!!! Oh wait, actually, you don't have much choice in the matter, do you? Cuz he is...FOREVER...dead...as in worm food. Actually, i can't imagine worms tucking into that much fuckin plastic.

Oh and incidentally, the guy with no talent knocked your heroes album Dangerous off the top of billboard charts, pretty good going for a guy with no talent i'd say.

Oh really buddy? Kurt Cobain was untalented, he was the worst singer, the worst guitar player, and the most idiotic moron ever. MJ was talented you dumb fuck, and didn't give his wife drugs whilst she was pregnant. Sorry but MJ was not just a musician he actually donated to charity, he actually inspired people to donate and give. Sorry buddy, competely irrelavant fact there. We are talking about Kurt Cobain not Michael Jackson. Billboard charts, eh? Too bad that Americans are dumb fucks that fully believe in the media just like you. Why does MJ's album go number 1 ALL OVER THE WORLD except for America? Exactly. Because of idiots like you.

Dangerous is one of the best albums, so I have no clue why your even mentioning that fucker's album with MJ's.

@CryptElf - Everyone, even his HATERS know that he had talent. Why would he have the greatest selling album of all time? Why would he have one of the most successful concert tours of all time? Why would more people watch MJ's memorial service then Obama's inauguration?

@Jumpin' Jack Flash - Look dude, I think your a funny guy and all, but my Dad isn't Kurt Cobain.

Drama, of course.

He's a paedophile hack, with a couple catchy songs and no talent.

See I can do it too.

Sales are irrelevant IMO.

See, even people who dislike him still have to give him credit.

@dirtyleeny - you do know that he is an AFRICAN American, right? Therefor, he may have been born and raised in the USA but he is African. Where's your proof of MJ being a child molester? "Oh he paid the kid off", oh really? Have you heard the phone conversations the kid's parents made? The transcripts that basically point to the parents wanting money. Oh and since you love tabloid's so much, many of them are writing that the same kid who got paid off said that MJ never did anything to him. Plus, he had 24/7 surveillance in his home. He had his own police department, fire department, and security department who monitored every little thing.

Edited August 30, 2009 by GnRIzzy

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

@dirtyleeny - you do know that he is an AFRICAN American, right? Therefor, he may have been born and raised in the USA but he is African. Where's your proof of MJ being a child molester? "Oh he paid the kid off", oh really? Have you heard the phone conversations the kid's parents made? The transcripts that basically point to the parents wanting money. Oh and since you love tabloid's so much, many of them are writing that the same kid who got paid off said that MJ never did anything to him. Plus, he had 24/7 surveillance in his home. He had his own police department, fire department, and security department who monitored every little thing.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but whatever..

Yes, he may be an African American but what does that have to do with anything? He was still born in America, and played American music. Also, where's your proof of Cobain forcing Love to do drugs? It's well documented that Courtney was more than familiar with her fair share of heroin and similar narcotics...

[dirtylenny]

That's a deep, deep character flaw. When you have kids, the rules change. By killing himself, he was thinking SOLELY of himself. He wasn't thinking about his daughter, or his wife, or hell even his fans. I realize he was a sensitive guy, but there's a line. If you don't believe in the whole "Courtney killed him" theory, than the only one who put the gun in his mouth was Kurt Cobain. I think that's a big sign of selfishness, when you only see your problems and the issues you're facing, and not how you're actions will affect others. You don't think Frances would've loved to have known her father?

I can't fault a man for not being strong. When a man pulls himself out from the depths of whatever life threatening disturbances he has that man is due praise and respect...thats not to say that the people that don't make it, that don't have the strength should then be vilified and looked down upon, thats not in my nature.

Beyond that, look at what I said above--The guy postured uncommercial while going on MTV, making videos for MTV, signing with Geffen (the most popular rock label in the world at the time). He did interviews with Rolling Stone and other big magazines, played on the MTV awards, hell he even changed his songs lyrics so it could be sold in Walmart. These aren't the actions of a man who hated and avoided fame, but a man who wanted it--and simply couldn't deal with it. There's nothing wrong with doing any of that in and of itself, but when you're a guy who claims he's against this commercialization, while feeding into it and bashing other artists for doing the same things you're doing, you're a hypocrite and a poser, imo.

He disliked the corporate aspect of the business, yes, never did he ever have a problem with making videos and bringing his music to a wider audience, in fact, in his own words, the sole reason they signed to a major label so his music could get to more ears. Sure he did interviews with Rolling Stone etc and he used that platform to incessantly sing the praises of and bring to attention obscure bands and artists, lots of whoose careers were given no end of boost by his doing so, not to say thats the only reason he did it.

These aren't the actions of a man who hated and avoided fame, but a man who wanted it--and simply couldn't deal with it.

They are if you take into account that the man killed himself not long after doing it dude. Seems to me that its possible that fame troubled him a helluva lot.

And to say he ''occupies a unique place in human history''--He wasn't Martin Luther King or Gandhi or George Washington. He didn't liberate a nation, he didn't do anything noteworthy in history outside of putting a shotgun in his mouth.

You dont have to be Washington or King to occupy a unique place in human history dude. Hitler occupies a unique place in human history, so does Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Joe Strummer, Sid Vicious, Luciano Pavarotti. Unique and noble are two different things dude and KC's place in history, relative to your ordinary chappies, is quite unique. And that "he didn't do anything noteworthy" i'm simply isn't true and you know it dude.

Where's Cobain's mark on culture? Grunge culture? That too was shortlived. He didn't change the world, maybe music for a few years.

Music for a few years is basically what i was getting at...perhaps changed the course of popular music to some degree, thats still a fairly unique place in human history.

dirtyleeny - you do know that he is an AFRICAN American, right? Therefor, he may have been born and raised in the USA but he is African.

I'm an african american too sir, what are you trying to tell me, that i don't count as an american?

Where's your proof of MJ being a child molester?

Top drawer on the left sitting underneath your proof that Kurt Cobain gave drugs to his pregnant wife.

Edited August 30, 2009 by dirtylenny

[Vincent Vega]

That's a deep, deep character flaw. When you have kids, the rules change. By killing himself, he was thinking SOLELY of himself. He wasn't thinking about his daughter, or his wife, or hell even his fans. I realize he was a sensitive guy, but there's a line. If you don't believe in the whole "Courtney killed him" theory, than the only one who put the gun in his mouth was Kurt Cobain. I think that's a big sign of selfishness, when you only see your problems and the issues you're facing, and not how you're actions will affect others. You don't think Frances would've loved to have known her father?

I can't fault a man for not being strong. When a man pulls himself out from the depths of whatever life threatening disturbances he has that man is due praise and respect...thats not to say that the people that don't make it, that don't have the strength should then be vilified and looked down upon, thats not in my nature.

Beyond that, look at what I said above--The guy postured uncommercial while going on MTV, making videos for MTV, signing with Geffen (the most popular rock label in the world at the time). He did interviews with Rolling Stone and other big magazines, played on the MTV awards, hell he even changed his songs lyrics so it could be sold in Walmart. These aren't the actions of a man who hated and avoided fame, but a man who wanted it--and simply couldn't deal with it. There's nothing wrong with doing any of that in and of itself, but when you're a guy who claims he's against this commercialization, while feeding into it and bashing other artists for doing the same things you're doing, you're a hypocrite and a poser, imo.

He disliked the corporate aspect of the business, yes, never did he ever have a problem with making videos and bringing his music to a wider audience, in fact, in his own words, the sole reason they signed to a major label so his music could get to more ears. Sure he did interviews with Rolling Stone etc and he used that platform to incessantly sing the praises of and bring to attention obscure bands and artists, lots of whoose careers were given no end of boost by his doing so, not to say thats the only reason he did it.

These aren't the actions of a man who hated and avoided fame, but a man who wanted it--and simply couldn't deal with it.

They are if you take into account that the man killed himself not long after doing it dude. Seems to me that its possible that fame troubled him a helluva lot.

And to say he ''occupies a unique place in human history''--He wasn't Martin Luther King or Gandhi or George Washington. He didn't liberate a nation, he didn't do anything noteworthy in history outside of putting a shotgun in his mouth.

You dont have to be Washington or King to occupy a unique place in human history dude. Hitler occupies a unique place in human history, so does Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Joe Strummer, Sid Vicious, Luciano Pavarotti. Unique and noble are two different things dude and KC's place in history, relative to your ordinary chappies, is quite unique. And that "he didn't do anything noteworthy" i'm simply isn't true and you know it dude.

Where's Cobain's mark on culture? Grunge culture? That too was shortlived. He didn't change the world, maybe music for a few years.

Music for a few years is basically what i was getting at...perhaps changed the course of popular music to some degree, thats still a fairly unique place in human history.

Ok, so if he had no problem with doing all the things it takes to promote and push a band and get em famous--What corporate aspect are we talking about that he hated?

And you didn't answer my points bout Frances or him not really giving anything back with the money he hated so. You said you didn't understand why people only feel sympathy for one and not the other.

And what I also fault Cobain for is this is a man who could readily attack others for being controversial, such as Axl, while hoping to be respected and not understanding why people mad a big deal of his own controversy. He claimed to hate those macho Jock types, yet idolized Metallica and hated Axl. It's ironic considering imo that Axl and Kurt I think had a lot in common in ideology, but were different in their methods or genres.

Same painting but in a different frame, imo. I'd say there was a lot more in common personality wise or mindset wise between Axl and Kurt than there was James Hetfield and Kurt, who imo was one of those macho, jocky, He-Man type of guys that Kurt hated. Axl and Kurt would've been the kids guys like James would've picked on in High School. Axl went with one side of the issue--He loved the glammier rock like the Stones or Queen or ELO, whereas Kurt went for the gritteier elements. Both were the same though, pushing the boundaries of what was considered normal and decent. And with the whole GN'R vs. Nirvana thing, it was like the Rolling Stones vs. The Sex Pistols--The whole Hard Rock vs. Punk,--GN'R being an exciting, rebellious rehash of everything that was big and great in the early-mid '70s with multiple genres infused together, whereas Nirvana was basically the Punk ethos and culture of the late 70s-early 80s going mainstream. In alot of ways, GN'R was a throwback to mainstream 70s Rock, whereas Nirvana was something the mainstream public wasn't used to.

Axl postured macho in some ways, mainly I think to sell records and maybe because of insecurity, but also had a very, very sensitive side similar to Cobain's, just delivered differently--Same message of alienation, of a want to be understood and of suicidal feelings and depression, one a bit more angrily than the other--And I think as is becoming more and more clear, Axl too hates fame or it's results as much as Cobain did--And it got to him about the same time. We had Axl go underground in '94 and Kurt kill himself. Two different ways of approaching the same problem.

I think in some ways though he might not have admitted it, Kurt might've subconciously admired guys like Axl--As far as Kurt knew, Axl loved the spotlight and enjoyed the fans attention. I think Kurt said something along those lines about Freddie Mercury in his suicide note, that he envied his ability to draw in and get high off the adoration and euphoria of the crowds.

Edited August 30, 2009 by MetalForever

[estranged 16]

jesus christ, somebody lock this

[GnRIzzy]

Alright, we all got diffirent opinions. Obviously and where's my proof that Cobain gave his wife drugs? Only two words..

Axl Rose.

[Snake Eyes]

jesus christ, somebody lock this

But I'm really enjoying all of the argueing.