Random Musical Personality Survey II

[Guest Len B'stard]

Punk didn't start anywhere, the spirit of rebellion doesn't have a nationality, it was a name given to a bunch of groups in New York and appropriated by a trans-continental crop of bands from the mid 70s onward.

But if you really wanna pick peanuts out of poop, here goes:

Earliest uses of the term, Lenny Kayes Nuggets and the review for the first Stooges album in which it was stated that this is the music of punks cruising for burgers.

The next really discernible clear point at which punk came to being was by the whole CBGBs crowd of Ramones, Television etc and a magazine started by John Holstrom and Legs McNeil to cover this burgeoning scene called Punk Magazine.

So if you really wanna argue the toss, NYC started it but i don't think thats exactly accurate. Whenever music gets too self indulgent or becomes inaccessible a crop of bands comes up that changes shit around. It happened with the advent of rock n roll when Sinatra and How Much Is That Doggie in the Window just wouldn't cut it anymore...then when rock n roll turned into Lipstick on your Collar another crop came around called The British Invasion that changed shit around, then when they got old and started doing solos longer than half the length of their debut punk came and showed em whats what. It appears to be more about generation gaps that anything else, nationality doesn't have anything to do with it in terms of the spirit of it.

What happened in England was culturally specific to England and i've noticed this has made it so a lot of English people try to claim it as theirs which is true but not to the exclusion of people that CLEARLY inspired and laid the groundwork for what England took overground with The Sex Pistols (aka the greatest band of all time).

There's no getting away from the fact that, Svengali arch string puller though he ain't, Malcolm McLaren was in and around New York and observed this burgeoning movement (already named punk) and took tales of it abroad to England. Thats not to say he was the Pistols puppet master but facts are facts. There's also no getting away from the monumental importance of The Ramones gig at The Rainbow and the galvanising effect that had on the english scene, you need only ask the top bands of the time about that, The Clash and The Damned. There is also no getting away from Patti Smith and her influence although i think Mr Rotten had something to do with dilutting her impact a little:

"Didja see the 'ippies down at The Rainbow? 'orses...'orses...horseshit!!' (i love you Mr Rotten sir )

You also can't get away from the fact that people like Johnny Thunders and The Heartbreakers, Richard Hell and The Voidoids came down and joined the punks on their tour under the assurance of Mr McLaren that punk was getting proper attention over in England.

Unfortunately, reality isn't subject to anybodys design, there's no real clear period points and no real clear starts and finishes to these things, they overlap, this is why the history books are misleading, because they attempt to order and condense something that is very disorderly and broad.

This is not to say that what occured in England under the punk banner was just bullshit copying of the New York scene, not in the least. It was culturally, politically and socially specific to what was going on in England at that time and as such it was a truly original thing, it was theirs. Also, bands like The Clash, The Damned, The Pistols even were monumentally important to what was the early American hardcore movement or early American punk outside of the whole New York thing, by all accounts those few early Clash and Damned tours were a fucking revelation over here.

Its a trade off and a damn fine and a damn fair one. Things that are essentially matters of the spirit are not subject to ownership, they are bigger than that, nobody owns being pissed off and saying it, assigning ownership to punk almost invalidates the idea of ANYONE can do this, stand up and speak up...how exactly to you expect someone to stand up and speak up through a medium or movement when you make it clear that its not theirs?

Thats sorta what i gathered to be the point like hey aren't you sick of this, aren't you pissed off? Yeah? Well say so!

[Zint]

Punk didn't start anywhere, the spirit of rebellion doesn't have a nationality, it was a name given to a bunch of groups in New York and appropriated by a trans-continental crop of bands from the mid 70s onward.

But if you really wanna pick peanuts out of poop, here goes:

Earliest uses of the term, Lenny Kayes Nuggets and the review for the first Stooges album in which it was stated that this is the music of punks cruising for burgers.

The next really discernible clear point at which punk came to being was by the whole CBGBs crowd of Ramones, Television etc and a magazine started by John Holstrom and Legs McNeil to cover this burgeoning scene called Punk Magazine.

So if you really wanna argue the toss, NYC started it but i don't think thats exactly accurate. Whenever music gets too self indulgent or becomes inaccessible a crop of bands comes up that changes shit around. It happened with the advent of rock n roll when Sinatra and How Much Is That Doggie in the Window just wouldn't cut it anymore...then when rock n roll turned into Lipstick on your Collar another crop came around called The British Invasion that changed shit around, then when they got old and started doing solos longer than half the length of their debut punk came and showed em whats what. It appears to be more about generation gaps that anything else, nationality doesn't have anything to do with it in terms of the spirit of it.

What happened in England was culturally specific to England and i've noticed this has made it so a lot of English people try to claim it as theirs which is true but not to the exclusion of people that CLEARLY inspired and laid the groundwork for what England took overground with The Sex Pistols (aka the greatest band of all time).

There's no getting away from the fact that, Svengali arch string puller though he ain't, Malcolm McLaren was in and around New York and observed this burgeoning movement (already named punk) and took tales of it abroad to England. Thats not to say he was the Pistols puppet master but facts are facts. There's also no getting away from the monumental importance of The Ramones gig at The Rainbow and the galvanising effect that had on the english scene, you need only ask the top bands of the time about that, The Clash and The Damned. There is also no getting away from Patti Smith and her influence although i think Mr Rotten had something to do with dilutting her impact a little:

"Didja see the 'ippies down at The Rainbow? 'orses...'orses...horseshit!!' (i love you Mr Rotten sir )

You also can't get away from the fact that people like Johnny Thunders and The Heartbreakers, Richard Hell and The Voidoids came down and joined the punks on their tour under the assurance of Mr McLaren that punk was getting proper attention over in England.

Unfortunately, reality isn't subject to anybodys design, there's no real clear period points and no real clear starts and finishes to these things, they overlap, this is why the history books are misleading, because they attempt to order and condense something that is very disorderly and broad.

This is not to say that what occured in England under the punk banner was just bullshit copying of the New York scene, not in the least. It was culturally, politically and socially specific to what was going on in England at that time and as such it was a truly original thing, it was theirs. Also, bands like The Clash, The Damned, The Pistols even were monumentally important to what was the early American hardcore movement or early American punk outside of the whole New York thing, by all accounts those few early Clash and Damned tours were a fucking revelation over here.

Its a trade off and a damn fine and a damn fair one. Things that are essentially matters of the spirit are not subject to ownership, they are bigger than that, nobody owns being pissed off and saying it, assigning ownership to punk almost invalidates the idea of ANYONE can do this, stand up and speak up...how exactly to you expect someone to stand up and speak up through a medium or movement when you make it clear that its not theirs?

Thats sorta what i gathered to be the point like hey aren't you sick of this, aren't you pissed off? Yeah? Well say so!

**sigh**

My star pupil...I'm proud of this one!

Turns out all that time you spent taking me to task you were actually listening to me.

[Shuffle]

Great post sugaraylen

[Guest Len B'stard]

Turns out all that time you spent taking me to task you were actually listening to me.

I never just took you to task you know, i was generally bugging you for the names of bands and stories and footage and just anyfuckingthing from the time...i got into The Demics and The Subhumans and Teenage Head cuz of you, thank you :)

[Zint]

Turns out all that time you spent taking me to task you were actually listening to me.

I never just took you to task you know, i was generally bugging you for the names of bands and stories and footage and just anyfuckingthing from the time...i got into The Demics and The Subhumans and Teenage Head cuz of you, thank you :)

And the motherfuckin VILETONES!

[maXx]

But i think when people refer to something as being so punk rock we all know what they mean

What do they mean??

now now get with it zint

I'm trying...that's why I asked.

What does "that's so punk rock" mean??

obviously you got this answer from sugaraylen, although of course you knew it all along. But to put it in my own words; it just means that it breaks the rules.. and it does so in an almost enviable way, i guess ..

Things that are essentially matters of the spirit are not subject to ownership, they are bigger than that, nobody owns being pissed off and saying it, assigning ownership to punk almost invalidates the idea of ANYONE can do this, stand up and speak up...how exactly to you expect someone to stand up and speak up through a medium or movement when you make it clear that its not theirs?

Thats sorta what i gathered to be the point like hey aren't you sick of this, aren't you pissed off? Yeah? Well say so!

well that's exactly what i think, it doesn't belong to any specific group. the minute it starts belonging it's not punk anymore. and even john rotten expressed heartfelt disappointment at the leather and safety pins trend that emerged after word got around about them. he said himself it was never meant to be a style, it was out of necessity that those guys looked that way (which i fully get) And he hated that those that followed them weren't being individuals.

Whenever music gets too self indulgent or becomes inaccessible a crop of bands comes up that changes shit around.

i'm waiting ......... i'm lookin .........

[Zint]

But i think when people refer to something as being so punk rock we all know what they mean

What do they mean??

now now get with it zint

I'm trying...that's why I asked.

What does "that's so punk rock" mean??

obviously you got this answer from sugaraylen

You're mistaken.

although of course you knew it all along

I didn't..honest!

I've never in my life heard anyone use that term.

I was intrigued.

I was curious as to what demographic uses it and to what situations it applies.

But to put it in my own words; it just means that it breaks the rules.. and it does so in an almost enviable way, i guess ..

Ah...ok

Thanks

[Guest Len B'stard]

didn't..honest!

I've never in my life heard anyone use that term.

I was intrigued.

I was curious as to what demographic uses it and to what situations it applies.

I've never heard it used ever at all except in Punk Attitude that documentary where Henry Rollins says that a terms exists called "thats so punk rock" and how punk was now part of the cultural lexicon and....ugh, i dunno, i think he gave an example of someone ramming a shopping cart into someones car and an onlooker going "thats so punk rock".

Personally it all sounds like a bunch of bullshit The notion that punk has something to do with...knocking a guy out resoundingly or...some other such ridiculousness. Its a vaguism, its like the term "proactive", language is devalued in a sense when its mass appropriated like that. Its like gang signs, before they were something that threatened or concerned people passing through the wrong side of town on the way to their comfortable suburban middle class tripled glazed nightmare, now its something 13 year old girls do on facebook. It destroys the content. But thats OK too because the ones with any sense are a mile on down the road doing what in 10 years everyone'll wish they'd've thought of first.

i'm waiting ......... i'm lookin .........

Therein lies the problem, punk rock says if you can't see em, be em Thats a criticism of me as much as anyone else cuz alls i'm doing is waiting and looking too. To quote Mr Rollins again (its a Rollinsey day) knowledge without mileage = bullshit. Its that simple, if you don't hear noise you like, make noise you like.

Edited March 25, 2010 by sugaraylen

[drops_of_jupiter]

Favorite Punk debut-

I don't know enough about Punk or own enough albums by Punk bands to answer this.

Neil Young or Bob Dylan-

Shiiiiit. Today? Bob Dylan. Tomorrow? Who knows?

Favorite current artist/band on the charts-

Florence + The Machine.

Artist/band you would like to listen to more of soon-

I'd like to listen to more of Tame Impala. They're meant to be good.

Favorite music scene in a given period-

Music 'scene'? Uh, Classic Rock, I guess.

The best singer ever (at least this week)-

At the moment, my ear is liking Paul Rodgers as well as Crosby, Stills & Nash. Especially Stills.

AC/DC: Bon or Brian-

Bon

Artist/band you listened to tons of in the past, and wish you still would, but you never feel like it-

Funnily enough, GnR.

Biggie or Pac or I don't like Rap-

Pac!

Most irksomely popular artist/band-

There's tons, but if people enjoy listening to their music and they get something from it, then who am I to trash it?

[maXx]

didn't..honest!

I've never in my life heard anyone use that term.

I was intrigued.

I was curious as to what demographic uses it and to what situations it applies.

uh, fair enough. i only heard it sparingly and it referred to having the courage to move past traditions and rules .. to do your own thing, if it makes you happy, especially when others want you not to. i never thought of it as applied to destroying things (as sugaray mentioned in his comment) & i wouldn't call that punk either, i'd call that stupid.

the ones with any sense are a mile on down the road doing what in 10 years everyone'll wish they'd've thought of first.

ye, like shuffle said earlier, when something becomes radical, the wheels of commerce are right behind it

Therein lies the problem, punk rock says if you can't see em, be em Thats a criticism of me as much as anyone else cuz alls i'm doing is waiting and looking too. To quote Mr Rollins again (its a Rollinsey day) knowledge without mileage = bullshit. Its that simple, if you don't hear noise you like, make noise you like.

ye, i'm tryin. it's not that easy to be original with the amount of commercial pressure around these days. as much as i live as true to myself as i can, despite the pressure, i been looking out for that wave of inspiration that opens up a good tune, finally. but it aint comin. i gotta pick up my guitar some more.