Millions

What with Axl being completely demotivated when it comes to new material, and the rest of the band desperate to write and record new material to prove they are not just touring musicians....... how about this?

Put out an 4 track EP. Anyone who has listened to Ron or Tommy's solo stuff will know they are strong on vocals - more than capable of taking the lead, and arguably a lot better than Duff or Izzy who were given lead vocal duties in the past.

This would be a stop-gap album until Axl can get off his ass, and by satisfying the artistic appetite of the rest of the band, could actually keep this version of GNR together that little bit longer. It could even be put out as a free online release as a thank you to the fans who have had to endure over a decade of nothingness.

What do you think?

What I see here is a conflict of interests between Axl and the the rest of the band.

A) Axl is artistically constipated, and has no real intention or desire to put out a new album. He basically can't be bothered getting off his lazy fat ass and is happy touring, playing the hits to an enthusiastic, adoring audience, and shagging groupies every night - an Indian girl last week, a gorgeous Japanese girl this week......... Fair play to him.

B) The rest of the band resent being dismissed by the fans and journalists as cheap scabs or 'hired guns.' At this point, they will have no real place in the legacy of GNR - and will be forgotten as mere touring musicians, in the same way that no-one will ever be able to name Michael Jackson's bass player.

A solution? Put out an instrumental album. At first this may sound a bit odd, but there are some incredible instrumental albums in the history of rock music. It could even be a movie soundtrack. This would be a stop-gap album until Axl can get off his ass, and by satisfying the artistic appetite of the rest of the band, could actually keep this version of GNR together that little bit longer.

I think its a pretty fair point.

I'm starting to think that the leftovers from the Chinese Democracy sessions aren't up to much. I mean, come on - Silkworms?

If Axl knows that what he's got is mediocre, and has nothing much left in the creative tank, then he's better off releasing nothing, than releasing a terrible album which will just tarnish the GNR legacy.

Ashba's comments today in an interview to plug the latest concerts were interesting - mentioning that the band are in no rush to put out a bad album.

Now I don't believe for a second that DJ knows what Axl is thinking, but I think he may have hit on the real reason for the delay in the next album by accident.

Look at Chinese Democracy. Overall, its a pretty average album - with a very high level of inconsistency in quality between the different songs. I'd say there are probably 5 really good songs on there, with the rest mediocre or really pretty awful.

Now if Axl has this alleged catalogue of 50 or 60 unreleased songs, and he has already put out some of the best stuff on Chinese Democracy, that leaves 50 or 60 unreleased songs of the quality of Scraped, Rhiad or, dare I say it, Silkworms.

Axl has talked before about his legacy, and the legacy of GNR. He isn't stupid. He is going to know if the songs he has are not good enough. And he doesn't want to destroy the legacy of GNR by putting out any old crap. Doing this would also be an admission that he couldn't cut it without Slash and Izzy.

So if the choice comes down to : 'new GNR album full of crap songs verses no new album', I think Axl has made the correct decision.

I was reading this week about an author (I can't recall his name right now) who had been working on a new novel for a couple of years. He had also been doing various bits of research whilst writing his previous novel, so there were piles and piles of backed-up paperwork on his desk, and lying around his study : research, ideas, half written sections, short segments, longer segments to be reworked........ He was overwhelmed by all this stuff - and ended up spending days, weeks and even months working and reworking on some sections.... sometimes only to eventually throw away those weeks of work and go with the original. He would read over and revise previous notes, spending hours and hours, with only a word or two being changed to show for his time. He was getting nowhere. This wasn't a creative process any more - more like an administrative job.

Then what happened? His house burnt down. Everything was destroyed. Absolutely everything. Every note. Every last piece of work. And he was absolutely devastated.

But then something surprising happened. Without this backlog of work to look over, rework , polish, edit then re-edit, he could actually get on with writing the actual novel. He was finally able to get the thing finished and published, and now acknowledges that the fire was a huge blessing in disguise.

(Man, I wish I could remember the article where I read this so it doesn't just seem like some tenuous made-up fairytale to make a point).

The point though (obviously) is this : if Axl has to sit in a studio on his own at 4am in the morning, sifting through Drum Track version 23, Drum Track version 24, Drum Track version 89.......... and then realise he doesn't even know any more which version he is listening to, is it any wonder he's getting nowhere in creating a new album?

Agreed, Flayer. That just emphasises what a monumental fuck-up it was to choose Chinese Democracy. Who the hell made that decision and why?

I am convinced - absolutely convinced - that This I Love would have succeeded as a single. Maybe not amongst guys like you and me - but among the more general public - the ones who made November Rain and Knockin On Heaven's Door such big hits. The general public love a good power ballad - just look at Aerosmith - they probably had more commercial success when they started going down that route, and hiring in professional songwriters to churn out the big soppy ballads.

Yep, Bucket as recreated by Bumblefoot.

So i was just listening to Chinese Democracy today, for the first time in quite a while. And when I say 'Chinese Democracy' , I mean an edited, slimline version, with all the average or poor songs taken out, leaving : Shackler's, Better, Blues, TWAT, Madagascar, and This I Love. Giving the album a fresh listen like this really reminded me how strong some of these remaining songs are, and made me reflect on the initial promotion of the album when it was released.

Who on earth came up with the idea of releasing Chinese Democracy as the lead single??? This was the single most catastrophic decision in the last 15 years of Guns N Roses. It is a dreary little song, dressed up with industrial bells and whistles to hide the lack of any kind of melody whatsoever. At the end of the day, it is boring and generic - and was never up to the standard required to relaunch the band.

I remember the anticipation here in the UK. As a huge fan, I was pretty taken aback by the buzz which the build-up to the new release was causing - even amongst non GNR, and non hard rock fans. All the big radio stations announced days in advance that they were going to be playing the new single. The mysterious, enigmatic Axl Rose was making his return after over a decade as a semi-recluse, and people were genuinely interested to hear what he had been working on for so long. And then.......... nothing.

Chinese Democracy - the single was played. The unanimous verdict of the DJs playing it and the listeners sending in their verdicts via Twitter, etc, was..... is that it? The song was quietly deleted from the playlists....... and that was pretty much the end of any promotion for the album.

Again, I want to ask - who was responsible for the decision to release Chinese Democracy as the first single?! If they had chosen 'Better' or 'This I Love' , GNR would have had a hit here in the UK with all the radio play that first song was given. Releasing the other one as a second single would have confirmed the idea in people's minds that GNR were back - and still had 'it'. I believe this would have given Axl the confidence to get proudly out there and promote the album a little more, instead of shame-facedly be confroned the utter non-response which greeted the album, before going away into hiding again to lick his wounds.

So who chose Chinese Democracy as the single? What the fuck were they thinking? What were their motives in this decision?

I'm sick of seeing all the hate-threads on this site, trolling Bumblefoot's musicianship abilities. Instead of dismissing because 'he isnt Slash', or 'he doesn't sound like Buckethead' try exploring some of his solo work, and give his playing on Chinese Democracy a fresh listen.

Some of his work with Guns N Roses is highly original - including the elephant-style lead guitar on Shackler's Revenge. Also worthy of note is the scratchy, insect-like guitar work, just leading into the main solo on Better.

Looking to the future, what other animals (other than elephants and insects) would you like to see him channel on future albums?

I would say the hyena, due to its sinister laugh-like bark, and its howling. Both of these sounds would work well in the context of the kind of route GNR seem to be going down. It would also seems to work pretty well on a more metaphorical level.

What do you think?

I'd love to believe that this band will still be around in 10 or 15 years, and by that time will have amassed and published a strong, exciting body of work to rival that of the previous incarnation of the band. I love Chinese Democracy, but even as a massive fan, I can see that it wildly inconsistent - with erratic peaks and troughs in quality. For example, there are some classic songs, but also some utter dogs like if The World, Rhiad and Scraped. But, for argument's sake, let's focus on the positive for now.

How many songs from Chinese Democracy do you think are out and out classics - up to the standard required to justify their place on A Best Of New-Guns 10 or 15 years down the line.....?

For me, the songs which I think will be good enough to be included on a future best of are :-

1) Shackler's Revenge ;

2) Better ;

3) There Was A Time ;

4) This I Love.

Not a bad showing for Chinese Democracy, all things considered!

New Fortus solo?

What new Fortus solo????

Does anyone have a link?!

There have been a lot of good songs over the years released by Slash, Izzy and even Duff on their solo albums. None of the albums are themselves great, but most have 2 or 3 great songs on there. If these had been given the GNR treatment, the sound, and Axl's vocals..... then what an album we would've had. As an example - how about this as a GNR record that never was:

1) Messages - Velvet Revolver

2) Fucked Up Beyond Belief - Duff

3) American Man - Velvet Revolver

4) Gotta Say - Izzy

5) Spectacle - Velvet Revolver

6) Serial Killer - Slash

7) Lonely Tonite - Duff

8) Slither - Velvet Revolver

9) Beggars And Hangers On - Slash

10) Lower - Slash

So I was thinking about Axl's amazing rock star lifestyle. Women, money, cars, partying, a life of luxury in sun-kissed California........

Is this why he can't be bothered getting his ass into a recording studio? Well, it kind of makes sense to me.

This is a guy who can probably have any chick he chooses. Any. Think what that must feel like. Really. Stop for a second and think about it. He's screaming out the chorus to Sweet Child O' Mine...... looking at all the hot girls bouncing in the front row - going crazy for him. He can nod to his assistant and point at the nicest ones to get backstage for a 'party.'

Or am I getting it all wrong here??? Is this just some cliched rock star myth?

So here is my question - for all the girls. If you were at a concert, and Axl invited you backstage, and he just clumsily straight out asked for a feel of your titties - would you let him?

(Gay chaps can also answer - would you let him touch your ass or ball-sack? Not the pecker though, obviously).

Rabia........

I'm sorry, but you come across as a bit of a self-important, pompous ass.

Logical fallacies? Really? Come on - relax - this is a music forum. Give it a rest.

Yeah, you complete bawbag...... and have him wearing a turban when he plays a show in India.

Fucking cretin.

I remember before Chinese Democracy came out, I think it was the second bunch of leaks, there was an almost perfect version of Shackler's, but with Buckethead doing the solo, etc. I'd really like the chance to hear it again, to compare the 2 versions.

I was talking to a guy into shred guitar, and he says that it is incredibly difficult technically to do what Ron did, and 'copy' a shred guitar solo, note for note.

Hey, everyone.

I just wondered how you all think the original leak from a few years back, which featuring Buckethead - instead of the album version with Ron, stands up? Do you think the Buckethead version compares well?

Is it still available anywhere?

Thanks,

John.

I would be interesting in reading this book, but honestly - how long do you think it would take to write?

I'd much rather he spent his time making music.

If he wants to put out his version of things, authorise someone else to do an official biography.

Stick out a double album : on on the first CD, its Axl's current version of Guns re-doing Appetite. And on the second album - have Slash's Hall of Fame line-up doing theirs.......

My theories :

1) The material in the vault isn't that good and he (and the record company) has no confidence in it ;

2) He has good material ready to go, but needs to get DJ to redo his parts ;

3) He's a perfectionist to the level of being obsessive. He's redoing and redoing music that could've been put out ages ago ;

4) He's pissed off at the way Chinese Democracy was released and promoted, and so wants to promote it and repair some of the damage with all of this touring ;

5) He's just a lazy millionaire who wants to enjoy life and all the trappings of success......... Could you be really be bothered dragging your hungover ass down to the recording studio when you have gorgeous, big-bosomed model-types all over you any time you go out to a bar?!?

Well, the La's also disappeared for years (probably over a decade) between albums. I think we're still waiting on their second album in fact. Is that what you mean?

AFD

Favorite: Nightrain

Least favorite: Anything Goes ( still love it though!)

GN'R Lies

Favorite: Used To Love Her

Least favorite: Mama Kin

UYI 1

Favorite: Back Off Bitch

Least favorite: You Ain't the First

UYI 2

Favorite: You Could Be Mine

Least favorite: My World

TSI

Favorite: Ain't It Fun

Least favorite: Attitude

CD

Favorite: Shackler's Revenge

Least favorite: Rhiad

I'm surprised at how many folk are choosing Shackler's as their favourite CD song. I love it, but didn't realise so many people thought so too.

'Things are SO right, at this moment, we are living in a great period of band history.'

What a moronic thing to say, you utter simpleton. Once we get some new music from this band, then maybe you'd have a point.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If GNR had just been churning out records, they'd just be seen as another run-of-the-mill ageing rock band. Look at someone like Pearl Jam - their career has just been on the decline for years now. As rock bands get older, they become less relevent. Rock is a young man's game.

Whereas with GNR, Axl is this mysterious, enigmatic figure - so people are still interested - there is a strange fascination with this slightly odd guy who refuses to compromise - and is still saying 'FUCK YOU!' after all these years. Isn't that what rock music is all about?

The Wise One

If GN'R/"Nu-GN'R" had released new records by now, do you think there would be such a stigma still attached with them?

For example let's say CD came out in 1999/2000; CD in 2002/2003, CD III in 2006/2007 and CDIV next year, do you think the new band would be accepted as Guns by more people?

What about yourself? Do you see the lack of new releases by the new band a factor in you not being able to see it as Guns?