grigori

Get on the beat BBA. We have deadlines.

I only have to apologize for the failure of this thread. I really tried.

My opinion of you MSL has not changed.

I agree with hellobeatle's perspective since he is knowledgeable.

Fine, I give up. It was just a thought. Nevermind.

Do you think Axl could and should use Section 2855 against umg?

If Axl Rose was under an alleged contract where the record company had legal domain over the record and refused to allow it to be released, would you agree with the record company?

I already replied to that post. With the expectation of royalties, then it is unfair.

If Axl Rose was under an alleged contract where the record company had legal domain over the record and refused to allow it to be released, would you agree with the record company?

People may not agree with what I said. I may not have been clear in what I was writing. People may disagree.

People can escape though, from unconscionable contracts and given the development heck CD 2 has been in, its now out this world to believe the contract terms are not being held up in good faith given how little CD2 has progressed.

Again this thread was just started to discuss an idea on how to fork CD 2 out into the open. Anyone got any better ideas?

Huge sums of money to record, yes. Missing out on more sums of money because of unconscionable contract terms, no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability

alright ill call bucket on the bucketphone

Pepper's Ghostbusters!

This is an issue independent of being paid to tour etc.

Musicians do that with record companies. It's not insane.

I actually can't think of another example where a musician's works were held in development heck by another artist.

If Axl Rose was under an alleged contract where the record company had legal domain over the record and refused to allow it to be released, would you agree with the record company?

If an artist wrote hist best music with the understanding that it would be released as record for which you would be compensated then it would be unconscionable to deny someone the right to take those recording with them (to a competitor) if the record has no realistic expectations to be released or is intentionally sabotaged.

So does this mean they still played to a sold-out crowd?

The whole basis on this line of thinking is that the contracts signed by Buckethead and the rest back in the day could be viewed as unconscionable as the contracts would have been signed in good faith and as one would expect royalties realistically. CLC 2855 happens to be rule built on a court case for an unconscionable contract. Proving the unconscionable terms of a contract in essence is the reason that people are able to exit them, not just the verbiage in CLC 2855. This makes CLC 2855 convenient for artists under contract with record companies.

Many artists have used this against record companies and were able to take the creative works with them. In fact CLC 2855 was used by some bands you probably like:

In the same fashion as Braxton, other high profile artists have used Section 2855 as a lever in the renegotiation of - or exit from - an existing agreement. In 1992, recording star Luther Vandross filed a suit against Epic Records in Los Angeles Superior Court claiming he was no longer bound to his 1981 contract. The very next year, former Eagle Don Henley became embroiled in a Los Angeles Superior Court action with his label, Geffen Records, wherein Henley sought to terminate his 1984 contract. Thereafter, in 1994, Henley's Eagle brethren Glenn Frey was involved in a similar lawsuit when MCA Records sued Frey after he attempted to end his deal. In that same year, the band Metallica challenged its contact with Elektra Records when it asked the court to dismiss the band from its contract. In 1997 the Smashing Pumpkins notified Virgin Records that it would not render future services to the label under the contract it signed in 1991. These disputes have all been settled out of court, and thus the judiciary has not had a chance to rule on the implications of Section 2855.

http://benmclane.blogspot.com/2011/12/music-businesslaw-tips-breaking-record_22.html

If you don't agree with this idea then that's fine. This is just food for thought. I thought I'd at least give you guys some hope.

MSL I don't believe anything you say, ever. The only way you seem to get by in life is by lying. I don't even care if you are telling the truth. Your reputation is garbage and that's not my fault nor my problem. The information that leaves your lips or gets tapped away at your finger tips is worthless in my book.

You can repeat your dismissal ad infinitum. It doesn't really matter and you're no more of an expert than anyone else no matter how much you try to be. I take Hellobeatle's criticism, not yours.

I wasn't making fun of your weight bro. You're fucking condescending personality happens to line up exactly with the comic book store character from the Simpsons. It's an honest coincidence. I don't lie, unlike unlike you.

After Axl called Slash "Vargas" I have pretty much not supported him. I don't really have a fascination for him anymore since he lost his voice.

I don't really care about the other members except for Ashba who I don't like for being a soulless guitarist in more ways than one.

well, i mean, i'm famliar with the labor laws in california in regards to employment agreements exceeding seven years

I'm sure you are. Don't forget to name drop yourself in this thread.

I will try to not be rude or mean.

We all need someone like you to lead us and talk to us in a patronizing, parental, proselytizing way as if we are children. Thank you.

The premise here is the same, artists use CLC 2855 to be released from record contracts and take their creative works with them to other record companies. The short codified verbiage in CLC 2855 is from over 50 years ago, originally meant for employee actors but musicians have been successfully able to use the overall interpretation to exit recording contracts based on more than simply time. The contracts between Buckethead and Robin in theory may not have had any termination date but CLC 2855 would allow them in theory to exit the existing contract and take the the fair value of their works with them.

It is a bit of a stretch but not by much. I honestly don't think that Buckethead nor Robin have the economic means to force Axl's hand but this was option that worth exploring and discussing. Buckethead's creative works remain in the dark and may never see the light of day and Buckethead would be deprived of the expected compensation. They'll be hidden away like Nixon tapes and forgotten in the past. It is a real shame.

No. He was fired from the band briefly. This is a gross exaggeration. Only after Alan Niven got removed and Axl had Doug Goldstein force them to sign the name over in the early 90s did Axl get control.

You think Axl was in control of the band because he told the rest of the band to "STOP"? What else would they do? Seriously this is a short-sighted thesis built on weak evidence.

There's a rule in California (California Labor Code Section 2855) where entertainers cannot be forced to work for any company under contract for more than 7 years. This ruling works well for musicians under contract with record companies as Don Henley had against Geffen.

I think it could be used by the former band members though. Buckethead would likely get royalties if his music was released but since it won't or can't, that becomes an impossibility and unconscionable. The former members Buckethead, Robin, could force Axl to release Chinese Leftovers (ex-Axl) to the fans delight.

From the Classic Rock article from years ago we know that are a lot of DAT tapes from Buckethead, Robin, and the rest lying around. From (unverified) rumors I've read about some guitarist that tried out for GN'R after the first time he left, Guns N' Roses is supposed to own the creative works of musicians that agree to be paid by the band. Now that would mean that Buckethead can't really even play the notes he wrote while in the band. That must be a tremendous pain when one considers that he may have invested his best work and that it would never get released to reach any of his fan's ears.

it would be cool to here but it would be the end of this current gnr thats for sure

That's a real risk. I think Axl would retaliate and end the tour. I think they could really do it though, and make an album in 6 months. They would just need to be top secret about it.

All those dudes together wouldn't sell 1/2 as much as Slash solo. It'd be embarrassing for them. They'd go back to where they began. Humbling I suppose you could say.

They might go back to that after this tour anyway. This may be the only opportune time they have to accomplish something while they have a platform.

Thanks for your honesty Randy. I myself used to hated Buckethead until about 2008. I still don't like Robin much though. Everyone has their own tastes. I don't think Rose is as interesting as he used to be in my opinion.

Does anyone know about the mean-time-to-failure in statistics? Well the longer something is going in a certain direction, the more likely it is to continue that way and this simple model appears a lot in nature. If it too less than a year to recorded AFD, years to get UYI, many years to get CD, how long do you think it will take to get a new album from the new band? Really I think this is Bumblefoot's only option. If he doesn't go for this now, he may have years to regret.

Or you could wait until "their will be album".

I think they could really do it. BBF has probably had it up to here, and all that aggravation probably drives the creative spirit tremendously. Imagine if they did really, really well to the point of eclipsing.

I didn't know this until recently but Robbie Robertson's "The Band" actually originated as Bob Dylan's back up band. For some reason or another they had the confidence to go at it alone. Do you think that Bumblefoot and the rest of the gang could accomplish this and do you think Axl would do anything to prevent them? It would be like an unauthorized sequel. I'm not talking about a hobbyist attempt like Sex Tapes. A full blown band. A lot of people already look at Rose at the weakest link and if the songs are that great then they will succeed on their own. Maybe it would even motivate Axl to actually record with them.

Sometimes you just have to have the confidence to go at it alone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLkmbLoaORU