Ulnar
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Posts posted by Ulnar
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Jeez. 62 pages on one tweet and an awful lot of hearsay.
Stop bickering with each other and consider one thing. WE STILL DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH OF IT ALL.
We can infer from that tweet that Izzy wasn't offered what he wanted, but we don't know the terms.
I'm seeing this $40k figure floated about, and people moaning that it's nothing compared to what the others are hauling, well - firstly - this is a figure that people are pulling out of nowhere, that has not come from any reliable source, and - frankly - is none of our business either way.
Secondly, what if that was $40k was a fee to pop up at one show and do a couple of songs? Would it seem so little then? Would that be a slap in the face? If that was all Iz wanted to do, it seems a very reasonable fee.What did Adler get paid per show for doing a couple of songs? And before someone shows up to say that Adler would have been so delighted to be asked he'd have done it for nothing - while that may very well be true, you can be sure that he did get something.
AND NONE OF US KNOW WHAT THAT SOMETHING WAS, WHAT THE TERMS OF AGREEMENT ARE, OR WHAT THE TERMS OFFERED TO IZZY WERE.
Look, it's a shame he's not there. As good as this line up is, the icing on the cake would definitely be Izzy and Steven getting an increased role, but that's not what we have, is it?
And is it really worth wasting all this time bitching about things we have no knowledge of?
Worse still slagging people you profess to be fans of based on nothing more on speculation & hearsay. The amount of people throwing Duff under the bus because someone on a forum said he'd said something about Izzy & money.
Stuff is / has gone on behind the scenes & Izzy's tweet infers he was at the very least approached, and they couldn't come up with a deal. That's all we know, and even then it's guesswork based on very little info.
Grow up, the lot of you.
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3 minutes ago, Sosso said:
just a little side note! Frank and Richard haven't played on the studio version of "Sorry" either.
Good point! (I'll take your word for it, I forget a lot of who played what on ChiDem, and that's a whole different story...) Also, Melissa would clearly never have played on it. So, Dizzy & Axl would be the only members who were on the record. Makes this particular example much more of a team effort. Also, it shows how messed up the band got, but let's park that there. It's looking like we're getting beyond that stage now!
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25 minutes ago, gnfnr2k said:So people dont have to search for it
The thought occurs that maybe this sort of thing is a pro-active way of moving the band forward.
In rejoining, I don't imagine Slash & Duff would expect to be working on any new material straight away, maybe at all.
On some level, they know they're signing on for a 'Greatest Hits' / Nostalgia / Reunion tour here. And we all know they've both got pretty strong work ethics, so they're going to want to work on stuff as well as 'playing the hits'.We've all seen the "1 record in 20 years vs VR/Loaded/Snakepit/Conspirators etc" arguments that fill up these boards.
So what do you do about that?
Well, you can go towards older, deeper cuts (like Coma) that will please the fans and make things interesting for you as a musician, and being willing to work on Chinese Democracy material, that'll please Axl. And - here's the key detail - by showing him that willingness to work on material they weren't involved in, they're gently pushing Axl forwards.I know that sounds like backwards logic, but you can read all over this board about how the previous incarnation of Guns, in the run up to Bumble's departure, was playing the 'same old' set list over & over & over again.
Well, look what we've got here. They've still sort of got to play the hits, but when was the last time Coma was played before this year? How often did Sorry get an airing on the Chinese Democracy tours?
The songs might be old now, but this is 'new' Guns material for our returnees. By including this material they're not just out there 'playing the hits' - they've got something else to get stuck into & work on, by agreeing to work on these songs.My point is, all this hard work - from all of them - on adding 'new' stuff to the setlists shows a hint of a possible work ethic creeping in... I expect we'll see more 'new' stuff creep in to the sets sooner or later. By which I mean Illusions stuff we've not heard live for years, or maybe even some more Chinese Democracy material. And who knows? Maybe this sort of work ethic will rub off on a singer that's already looking more energised than he has in years....
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4 hours ago, thunderram said:
SLASH and DUFF are back in the band because other musicians opted to leave and the positions opened up. As long as Richard and Frank want to keep their job and are able to do the job (unlike the ADLER situation circa 1990), he's going to keep them in the band. And quite honestly, he should. It's the right thing to do.
2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:This is simply incorrect. Ashba said that he quit because he knew the reunion (regrouping - whatever you care to call it?) was happening, and Bumblefoot seems to have had information on the reunion before he quit. Stinson got essentially caught between two bands; there is no reason to suppose that if a Replacements reunion did not happen, then he would be still in Nugnr today (especially if we believe McKagan to be the pivotal figure). Pitman was certainly in the reunion to a certain chronological point, even going so far as to design some stuff for the promotion, but a few misguided comments on social media during a night on the turps led to his sacking.
Well, I'd say it's at least *partially* correct.
It's more likely to be a collision of events. Bumble, Tommy & Ashba all left of their own accord (we think... if there was talk of a reunion toward the end of their time in the band, it's entirely possible there may have been pressure to leave...) leaving the spaces opening up, as @thunderram says.
So, Duff & Slash filled those now vacant spaces, resulting in the 'hybrid' version of the band we now have. There's bound to be several reasons. Amongst those reasons, you have the fact that these are their 'rightful' positions in the band as original members, and the people previously filling these spaces are no longer in the band. Chiefly, though, animosity between them & Axl had thawed, and their personal relationships were repairing.
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On 08/07/2016 at 7:56 PM, double talkin jive mfkr said:
what are izzy's terms?
does he want more cash + only the original 5?
No one knows. None of them have talked about it publicly, no reasons, no clues.
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1 minute ago, sanity_lost said:
I agree with your sentiment.
(Except for the last sentence. Being in your 50s only means you are no longer young.)
I only mention it to illustrate that they've grown up, matured, and therefore less likely to play immature games like making veiled references to people in their songs. I'll take Izzy's description of it on face value, I think a lot of people read far too much into the 'money' part of it and started drawing their own conclusions from it, which I disagree with.
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1 minute ago, Jane M. said:
Agreed! Latest I read from someone on facebook is that Izzy is on good terms with everyone and attended the KC show. So I'm gonna stop speculating about this because it's giving me a headache. At some point we'll see the AFD lineup, that's for sure.
I hope so, and yes - evidence suggests he's on good terms with everyone. From working on & off with Duff for years on his own solo stuff, to involvement with Velvet Revolver & a few guest appearances with them, guest appearances with NuGNR, playing on Slash's first solo record, etc etc - seems like he's cool with everyone in one way or another. So, whatever the reason for his current absence, I don't believe there's any animosity. Lets keep things crossed for an appearance / appearances. Hopefully at the same time as Steven.
1 minute ago, rosesandguns said:Hey Jane. If you'd have a source on that fact that Izzy attended the KC show you'd blow-up a fucking bank down here. Please quote if you have a source.
And yes, that's an interesting detail. I find it hard to believe that he was there but didn't play, though. We all know 'Someone on facebook'. So I'll remain on the fence for this one for now :-)
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Good point, yeah - probably fair game to merge it. Just wanted to show a little love for Frank, professional musician or not, and regardless of pay, it's got to affect him, I'd have thought.
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53 minutes ago, BadApples87 said:
Izzy said in an interview that he has no part in the reunion.
Right now Izzy and Sorum have a new song saying that "They" can fight over a bag of gold.
Incorrect. Izzy said on Twitter that - quote - "At this point in time , I`ve no involvement in the upcoming April 2016 GNR shows". He also left an answerphone message for a Rolling Stone journalist (that RS made public) along the same lines. He's not given an interview on the subject.
He's also stated that the song FP Money, that Sorum is playing on, is "inspired by a dark comedy series from last summer"The Brink" Produced by Jack Black and Tim Robbins ."
No interviews, and no veiled attacks on the 'reunion'.
Lets not forget that Izzy was in the studio with Duff this time last year, Matt was with Slash & Duff at Lemmy's funeral over Christmas / New Year. If this has been in the works for as long as the signs are suggesting (2014 at least. Possibly late 2013) then they knew about it. Guaranteed. And you can infer that by hanging around / keeping company with Slash / Duff that they have not fallen out. The reasons they are not involved are not clear, but I very much doubt that the simple act of recording a song together is a veiled attack on the current state of GNR. These are men in their 50s.
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4 minutes ago, Fitha_whiskey said:
Do you think he would have the stamina to play the current 2.5 hour type of show they are currently playing?
You know what, yeah, I think he probably would. Whether or not I think that'd happen is a different question, and I don't think we're at that place yet, but - yeah - I think he could do it. Might take a few weeks of rehearsals, but he's clearly up for it, and would do whatever it takes to get up to speed, he loves this band so much, and love like that can help you achieve anything.
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...for Frank.
Now, I don't mean this is a snidey, nasty way. Though I will admit I'd always wanted Adler - or Sorum in his place if not - back for this run, I've nothing against Frank and no axe to grind. I guess it's just that Adler & Sorum have history with the returning Duff & Slash & were part of the band I grew to love, Frank and the NuGNR era came after.
Right - so with that disclaimer out of the way.....
Did you see the crowd reaction when Steven got up there ? Did you see how happy the 'original three' looked? Axl, Slash, Duff grinning from ear to ear? You can *hear* what he brings to those songs, you can see how big a deal this is to the GNR fanbase in general, it's on all the news sites, its all we're talking about on this forum, it's a big, big deal. It's probably made Adler happier than he's been in years. It's made many fans happier than they've been with the band in years. There's videos all over youtube, and it's making international music headlines.
Now, imagine you're Frank. He can't be blind to this. He has to be aware what a big deal this is. Even just to hear the crowd reaction in Cincinnati when Steven got up. The reaction Steven got at the bows at the end. That's got to impact on Frank. I don't want to say it'd make him feel 'unimportant' because he is important. Whatever side of the fence you fall down on, he's been the GNR drummer for 10 years, and helped keep the ship afloat, which has - in one way or another - got us to this point. But, fuck, that's got to sting hasn't it? You simply can't ignore how loved Steven is to the GNR fanbase, especially when there's a crowd of people cheering for him in front of you.... and that really must have slapped him in the face last night.
So, while I'm currently delighted as a fan that Steven got a chance and hope he'll be back with more regularity and for longer sets. (yes, that's what I want to see as a fan) you've got to feel a little sorry for Frank, haven't you? Poor guy's been there for 10 years & and has just been out shined, in the space of 10 minutes and two songs, by someone loads of people had written off. I suppose what I'm trying to say is; it's hard to go FUCK! YEAH! IT's FUCKING STEVEN!!!! without also thinking 'poor Frank'. So, here's a little appreciation for Frank (even though I'm firmly in the Adler camp!)
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9 minutes ago, Fitha_whiskey said:
But the perils of rock n roll decadence physically hurt him in ways that he's now a notch below the quality required to dominate the world.
I get what you're saying, but I can't agree with that. I don't know if you've heard the Adler album or seen any of the youtube footage of him with his band - or even these songs from Cincinatti - I'd say he's still got the chops without question. Yes, his addictions earned him a stroke and lost him a lot of credibility with the GNR fanbase, but he's been sober for - what 2 or 3 years now? Which is pretty damn impressive for someone who was consistently relapsing over a 20 year period, and DESPITE those relapses, he's still got the goods. Still one of the best rock drummers going, for my money.
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5 minutes ago, rosesandguns said:
I think this one is the most correct answer to this question as it gets. Everything else is just not-proven rumours and/or speculation. Thumbs up to you @Ulnar.
If I'd had to speculate, I think Duff made the best explanation of Izzy's behaviour in some interview (concerning recording music overall and playing with Guns in 2006 and 2012), and it was something like this: Izzy shows up whenever he feels like, wherever he feels like. He's sort of a mystery.
I think that's the case here. He just doesn't feel like showing up, yet. And that's just my personal speculation - again.Thanks.
And yes, anecdotally, that's definitely what we - as fans - know about Izzy. He seems pretty consistent in his behaviour, and that behaviour is to walk to the beat of his own drum.
I don't think many people in the fan base (me included) can even begin to understand how hard it would have been to get sober a) at all and b) whilst in the middle of complete rock n' roll decadence at the height of the band's popularity.That takes a hell of a lot of personal strength. On top of that, to have the strength to then walk away from something you obviously love (or at least had love for) in order to preserve your own sobriety / sanity and to do that in the face of watching people you care about descending into drugs & alcohol, not to mention the rest of it... That takes a strong character. Clearly that has stayed with him, and that's why he won't put up with anything if he doesn't think it's worth it.
We've all heard the stories of his involvement in the early days of Velvet Revolver, and how he was out of the door as soon as it looked shaky / they couldn't agree on singers, etc... . We've heard from Axl about Izzy's guest spots with Nu-GNR and how they were entirely on Izzy's terms. Sounds to me like Izzy knows EXACTLY what he wants to do & when he wants to do it, and he'll do it his way or not at all, thankyouverymuch.
My personal opinion remains that he was offered - at the very least - some guest spots. Possibly 3 guitar line up with Fortus & Slash, possibly 2 guitar with Slash like the old days but he's seen decades of crazy & mudslinging and chose to sit it out - see how it pans out. Now it looks like the ship is fairly steady, he might stop by for a song or two. And then, who knows?
Thats' my own speculation, though, so please don't take that as fact / rumour or anything. Just my thoughts...
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3 hours ago, El Guapo said:
Izzy's absence, THE SILENCE, his little digs with vids etc. are pretty annoying now to me!
I bet he's got good reasons for everything, but damn!Digs? I think any digs are speculation on fans' part. He's made a clear statement that he's not involved, and a handful of tweets that have been *interpreted* as digs, but - let's be fair to Izzy - I don't think he's really made any digs at the band. People are assuming that collaborating with Matt is a 'fuck you' from the two of them for not being involved - but that's speculation. People are assuming that he wasn't asked, or that he was asked but said no. We've not had any *reasons* from the man himself yet, or the GN'R camp, so everything is still pure speculation at this point.
1 hour ago, Jane M. said:Izzy was asked, there was a disagreement and he said no so therefore he can't say anything about it. Is that how the story goes?
I know you're asking that as a question, but - again - this sort of thing is all speculation. We don't know why he's not there. He may have had a disagreement, sure. He may simply not want to. There might be financial reasons, there might not. We simply don't know why he's not there at the moment. I'm sure we'll find out at some point, though. Or he'll turn up like Steven just did. Like I said in another thread, after Axl being prepared to give Steven a spot I think all bets are off. We may yet see Izzy involved. We may yet see the AFD line up (if only for a couple of songs). Who knows? Maybe even Matt & Gilby could guest if they're in town? Perhaps even members of NuGNR.
With no straight answers from anyone about anything, all we can go on is what we see on stage, and at the moment, I'm seeing an energised, happy band and - perhaps more importantly - and energised, happy singer at the front of it all. And, if he's happy to welcome Steven back into the fold after 26 years & an awful lot of acrimony, who can possibly predict what'll happen next?
TL:DR, I'm fairly confident now that something else unexpected will come up sooner or later, probably involving Izzy. But I don't think we'll know about any *reasons* for anything until someone gives a straight up interview and is asked direct questions.
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9 minutes ago, Guigsdaddy1976 said:
Quick question. Why the Cincy show? Why didn't he come out first night? I mean no one here knows but just putting it out there.
Well, there's been rumours swirling since the Troubador show that he was supposed to guest that night, but did his back in & had to back out. Personally, I don't entirely buy that, but there may have been some truth in that. Perhaps they wanted to get a few shows out of the way & start the ball rolling first - before they brought him along - but whatever the case, I suspect it's just as simple as being the most convenient show for all parties.
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Just now, AxlsFavoriteRose said:
i heard Axl say "Shall we do another? Let's do another" or something like that before the handshake so idk...
Nah, I don't buy 'unplanned' - the "shall we do another?" chat is just Axl talking to the audience - 'wondering aloud' about whether or not they should do another is showmanship, for the audience's benefit. Steven came out to do two all along, I'm sure.
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14 hours ago, GNRmello77 said:
I think it is still weird to see bumble having a hard time talking about it, i mean you see the struggle in his voice and expressions idk why that is... I'm glad he talked about it but the way he comes across it's almost like he left GNR on bad terms but he is just too much of a nice and good guy to spread hate or backfire at GN'R
Agreed. He definitely seems like he's holding back on something - trying to be diplomatic, and not to bash anyone, whilst still trying to give a straight answer. I think that's an admirable quality, he seems like a good guy, something negative obviously went down during his time with GNR, but he doesn't want to start shit off by talking bad about anyone. Interesting that he says 'everyone knew' about the reunion at the time he left. That's quite some time before the news came to the public.
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I was hoping something like this would happen! Steven's been far too quiet about all this since it all kicked off. If he'd have been excluded he'd have been talking to Eddie Trunk (or anyone who'd listen, let's face it) about how he'd been left out.
Brilliant. Very happy for him. He's been holding out for it for so long. Very happy as a fan to see this too. Here's hoping there'll be more - and some Izzy appearances too. I think it's fair to say that all bets are off now! :-)
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On 14/06/2016 at 4:34 AM, Modano09 said:
Either he's suddenly gotten legit sober and mature, or he's had a carrot dangled in front of him he can only reach if he at least acts sober and mature for a while.
This, and this...
18 hours ago, PsychoKiss344 said:I find it so weird that he hasn't done any interviews since this has been announced, normally Steven would be doing any interview possible with youtube channels/radio stations anything lol
His silence seems really odd, compared to his usual stance of telling anyone who'd listen how much he'd love to do this, and he'd be there with bells on if it ever happened, wouldn't even expect a fee, etc etc etc.
From what we know, he's at least on good terms with Slash & Duff, so presumably some sort of dialogue has occurred. I don't know about this whole 'injured back / was supposed to step in on these early shows' thing. I think he's a great drummer, and I think he's still got the chops, despite his well documented problems over the years - the footage of Adler from a month or so back proves that.
I'd still hope to see him involved in some capacity, but it's looking less & less likely. Certainly it's crystal clear that Frank is the main guy, and we're not going to see Steven there in a permanent capacity any time soon.
The only thing that really still seems a bit of a mystery here is just WHY he hasn't spoken publicly about this situation. It's been 6 months since the cat's been out of the bag. Shows have been played, a tour has been announced and SOMEONE in the media must have asked him about it, yet it seems like he's declined to get into it (publicly), which does seem unusual behavior in light of his previous.
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3 minutes ago, gunsguy said:
Do tell, He was not at the show. He heard this info from someone who was. Did Guns make some kind of announcement during the show? If so why did fans not say anything? We heard alot of rumors around this
Well, I don't know if he's an extremely reliable source, but even though he wasn't at the show, he is industry. If he heard something from someone who was at the show, he probably means someone else who is industry - you know - rather than some one in the crowd / general admission. I still take the rumour with a big old pinch of salt, but I wouldn't discount it either. He may well know someone who heard something legit.
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4 minutes ago, sonofnazareth said:
we just have to make the best of it as fans...focus on the positive things I guess. I hoped so much for Steven to be a part of this.
Yeah, true. There's definitely positive stuff to be taken from this, for sure. I mean, not to hope against hope or speculate too much, but who knows what surprises lay in store? This is just the first of many shows, after all. He may yet get his moment. I hope so, for his sake as much as anything else. He's still been suspiciously quiet!
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2 minutes ago, Dean said:
Really, really impressed by the snippets I have seen.
Night and day with Jungle from this fucking abomination.
haha - agreed. If there was ever a FUCK YOU ASHBA moment, this was it. Well. One of many, actually. But it highlights that disaster zone perfectly.
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10 minutes ago, sonofnazareth said:
I love Slash's playing, Duff's bass/backing vocals, Axl's singing...Fortus even seems to be approaching Izzy's feel, but Frank's drumming is too stiff...no swing at all in that WTTJ clip.
I totally agree with all of that. How I wish they'd managed to find a way to get Steven in there. It does sound good though, doesn't it. Keys & Bongos totally overwhelmed by everything else (I still can't see why they need a second keys player, be it Pitman or Melissa or whoever - they aren't needed). In terms of Axl / Slash / Duff, this is sounding really great though - Axl in particular is looking and sounding energised for the first time in years.
Guns N' Roses Make First Mainstream Rock Songs Chart Appearance Since 2009
in GUNS N' ROSES - DISCUSSION & NEWS
Posted · Edited by Ulnar
emphasis
Anyone else clock this little bit of laziness on behalf of ths journalist? Izzy was long gone when 'Sympathy' came out, it's the first with Slash, Rose and McKagan since Sympathy. Genuinely curious to see how far this mistake travels - we all know that journalists copy journalists without paying attention too much...