Frey

Okay, what I actually wanted to comment on before all this Instagram drama came up...

On 23.7.2017 at 4:31 PM, Andy14 said:

Omg, Frey. How long have you been the chairman of this thread? How come it hasn't even crossed your mind that the huge framed naked Axl with a skull is the ideal present for Slash's birthday . Naked gingers with skulls are practically all over Slash's Instagram .

You are right. I failed. How could I not realize that?

I humbly apologize for not seeing the Slaxl potential in this situation.

Anyway @Andy14 , Slash's facebook post was genius. Love your sense of humor. I can't wait to see the next ones.

22 hours ago, purplestargirl said:

All these happy birthdays to Slash and not one from Axl. Can't say I'm not surprised.

17 hours ago, killuridols said:

The one who doesn't tweet 

Axl decided to wish Slash a happy birthday in a more private manner.

Feel free to interpret that however you want.

On 23.7.2017 at 5:29 PM, killuridols said:

Regarding Axl's babysitters.... yeah, I guess this has been going on his entire life but it has to do with the fact that he became a jewel for the industry when he was young and for thaf reason they wanted to keep him safe (especially during those years when he had the spark and looked like he was still productive).

After the UYI tour was over all his plans went to hell. His plan was marrying Stephanie and start a family with her. Settle down for a couple years and then go back to the studio. But none of that happened and from that year on, it is like a mountain of shit imploded on him.

So he's probably right when he says Beta saved him because he was on the verge of suicide many times and the only people he had around were TB.

The problem I see here is that once the storm passed, Axl was not able to rebuild himself and become independent for good. I think the right moment was when he turned 35 or even 40..but instead, he went into more shit, changing his appearance, wanting to replace the whole band and all the rest we know very well.

So, what @Tori72 says is not crazy either.... We cant blame TB for all he's done bad. It was on his hands to change his life and he couldnt. What TB might have done wrong is not encouraging him to seek the peace with Slash and Duff earlier... giving into every tantrum, obsession and bad behavior he indulged in... but not even in these cases I can say to which extent it is their fault.

Axl is a very difficult guy and its impossible to know for us which is the reason for his loneliness.

I dont see a nice future for Axl in the situation he is right now, unless he gets a family of his own, his years ahead will be very lonely. The good part is that he has money and can pay people to take care of him (lots of people cant do this) but then again, you cant buy love and old age is very hard when you dont have people who truly love you.

I really hope the TB's children grow to love him and maybe there there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Thats all I can think of.

I basically agree with most of what you wrote and I'm not saying it's all on TB (Axl is not completely without agency after all), I just have a rather "no use in crying over spilt milk" mindset when looking at stuff like this. What's done is done now and the past can't be changed, so the focus should be on improving his current situation and his future (and no matter how much he may or may not have screwed up in the past, I do think Axl is an acceptable human being deserving of compassion for the most part). But like I said earlier, no one here can really do anything, so the future looks bleak. Unless someone else intervenes. Prayer circle for Izzy, Duff or Slash to get involved?

12 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I saw that too and my first thought was "oh great, what's ginger nuts done now!!"

Then I saw the whole Instagram bullshit with Perla and I don't think it has anything to do with Axl..... it's all about SpankyHankyHudson!! 

I do agree it wasn't a nice thing to do with posting the definitions of mental health issues, especially when they have a guy in the band like Axl and they have been posting sadness about Chester 

So you do think Spanky is in fact Perla then?

14 hours ago, purplestargirl said:

I'm not sure if I can post links to that on here. 

You can post links to fanfiction or discuss it as far as I'm concerned. It's been done before (several times) and it will happen again.

Just in case you were worried about freaking me out or something lol.

When it comes to this thread, "I've seen everything imaginable pass before these eyes" Nothing shocks me anymore lol. And I do find these types of things (fanart, fanfiction, etc.) kind of fascinating in a way.

Update : Scary Instagram girl already felt personally attacked by Meegan's Insta story and made a new and pretty nasty anti-Meegan post complete with a long, incoherent rant about everything she thinks is wrong with Meegan

Our little Instagram loon wants the world to know that she is sick of Meegan harassing her every day (lol ), that Meegan is a narcissist and that the definition she posted must be about herself, and that Meegan is a also a manipulator, a gold digger, a home-wrecker, only uses Slash for his money and because she wanted a bigger house, follows him around like a lost puppy, has no job and is lazy, that she has no friends and that she is childish and immature, that she used to be a hooker, that she is a shitty mother who doesn't care about her own children, that she doesn't love Slash's children and spreads lies about Perla, that she wasn't there with Slash for the AFD anniversary, that she puts people into jail just because they don't like her (I assume she means Jazmin), that she wasn't there for Slash when Chester died (LOL!), that she had sex with Slash's father (WTF?), and that she is a heartless and soulless person and a horrible mother and a complete waste of breath!

And that's just what I can remember right now after scrolling through that mess

6 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Thanks for your insight, that makes more sense.  I'm relieved.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not bothered with their private lives either (beyond being mildly amused by the teen angst antics), I was just worried it was a sign of discord within the band, that Slash and Axl were back at each other's throats or something (because up until Apollo show, I wasn't 100% convinced they've patched things up) and I was thinking, what the hell is she doing making that public right before St Louis and the next leg of the tour?  So I'm glad there are other more plausible explanations.  Still, kind of irresponsible of Meegan to take that to social media.  I mean, any GnR fan reading that might assume it's Axl, which isn't fair on him.  But I guess she didn't think of that.

Nah, don't worry, everything's fine. For all the reasons @killuridols already mentioned and also because you only need to look at how they interact with each other during concerts. They've been very comfortable with each other and are all smiles at every show basically, even the very recent ones. Just go check out the videos in the Apollow show thread- Duff wouldn't be smiling at Axl so fondly and Axl wouldn't pounce on Slash so happily if anything was wrong between them.

4 hours ago, killuridols said:

As for Meegan being irresponsible and shit..... Well, that's her Instagram and she's entitled to post whatever she wants. It is not nice, of course, but I feel that she did it in the heat of the moment. She's usually a very calmed person, nice and doesnt engage with this BS. Like @MillionsOfSpiders said, it is pretty obvious the Perla post stirred up the hornets' nest and neither Meegan or Slash could handle it well.

There's probably "a whole lot of unknown" (to paraphrase my friend) to us fans about what's going on with them and their families. Not so long ago, Lucy was attacked on IG by that crazy woman @Frey mentioned in his post and everybody said this person does the dirty job for Perla..... so Meegan has probably been accumulating some frustration.... and let's be honest, Perla's post is really out of place with all that shit she says... unnecessary and also a big lie  

I agree though that the ones who suffer the most here are the children. Although it looks to me that Slash kids do not have Instagram. I really hope they don't and that they know nothing about this crap! It is really immature from all sides.

Yes, the thing about Lucy is a good point.

Getting harrassed by some crazy Instagram stalker is one thing, but the crazy Instagram stalker also going after and attacking your children is a whole other level of shit.

I could easily see (and understand) Meegan losing it because of that (and I mean who wouldn't get mad about some bitch being nasty to your kids?).

Btw, one of the things I find scariest about this particular loon is that she loves dragging all the kids into everything. Apart from harassing Meegan's daughters and claiming they're strippers and whores, I've also seen her claim that she has talked to London and that London hates Meegan and is angry and so on and so forth.

As for Slash's kids having Instagram... I don't know about Cash, but London does have one. I know because Perla tagged him once (really smart of her btw ). I checked it out and it's mostly just band stuff (and then I quickly left because I felt creepy looking at the kid's account). One thing I noticed though was that it seemed like Slash likes every single picture London posts. I thought that was kinda sweet

--------

P.S. I thought you were joking with the "Slash's new step mom" thing in your post yesterday, @killuridols OMG.

(All this shit is worse than the most ridiculous telenovelas.)

32 minutes ago, lucie said:

I doubt very much if it has anything to do with  anonymous crazies...haven't they been on the loose for a long time.  I'd say the apple cart is more than upset....it's "i bought you a diamond ring" serious.

Yeah, but Meegan (or Slash) usually react when the crazies get too crazy and the girl in question has been pushing it a lot recently. It wouldn't even be the first time that Meegan called her out in particular, Meegan has gotten upset about her before.

32 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Yes, @Frey sounds very plausible too and is a tiny bit less ignorant on the whole issue than what we thought initially. BUT. I still don't like this post and think she should have treated this differently. Why does she care what fans write about her anyway? I understand insults from fans or whoever are not easy to take but stirring things up doesn't help.

Anyway, I agree with MillionsofSpiders on the Perla post that it is sad to put their kids to those kind of things publicly. 

What does the "apple cart" mean? 

I think all of it is pretty sad too and I agree that that Insta story is pretty ignorant.

But Meegan and Slash (and Perla for that matter) have always cared greatly about what the Internet crazies are doing, I mean Slash even had that other crazy girl (Jazmin) kicked out of the concert.

And this girl (thebitchisback4ever) and her friends (or her alternate accounts? because they sound exactly like her lol) appear no less crazy than Jazmin.

It's possible Meegan and Slash are as concerned about her doing something crazy as they're about Jazmin. Though antagonizing them further like that certainly isn't a very smart move either imo.

Lots of stuff I want to reply to, but about this:

54 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Loving the photos in this thread ladies.   Very entertaining!  On that note, don't know if anyone's noticed Meegan's latest instagram story but she's included screenshots of what looks like a Wiki definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder with #hmmm...whoarewetalkingabout and another for Delusional Disorder #insaneandcrazy.  I'm thinking either all is not well within the band (please no,) and they're referring to Axl or they're referring to Perla?  I've got a screenshot of these but I can't upload them.  

It seems a bit weird for Slash to be suddenly disgruntled about Axl's various issues since it's not like he hasn't been dealing with him since 1985 and he would've known what he was signing up for when he agreed to do the tour.  Still, after that video of Axl, I'm hoping he's not in a bad head space and going off the rails?  In any case, not very nice of Meegan to go on social media and mock anyone who might potentially have mental health issues.

 

 

45 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I saw that too and my first thought was "oh great, what's ginger nuts done now!!"

Then I saw the whole Instagram bullshit with Perla and I don't think it has anything to do with Axl..... it's all about SpankyHankyHudson!! 

I do agree it wasn't a nice thing to do with posting the definitions of mental health issues, especially when they have a guy in the band like Axl and they have been posting sadness about Chester 

 

I think I know who this is about. 

It's either about Perla as @MillionsOfSpiders said

OR

(and this was my first thought actually when I read that and is equally likely imo)

it's about that crazy girl that does nothing but spread hate about Meegan on Instagram (and her friends).

Because that girl and her friends keep calling Meegan a narcissist. In nearly every single post they make about Meegan they call her a narcissist and tell people to look up the definition of the word.

It's like the worst insult they can think of apparently and they repeat it ad nauseam.

So I think it's highly likely Meegan's post is in response to this nonsense. She definitely is aware of that girl and her friends because she has called them out before on her IG.

11 hours ago, rendestroi95 said:

2:42:30 - The Scooter Story

2:54:10 - Axl tells Trunk he's joining AC/DC

3:24:05 - Duff's Story (I really recomend that not only you but everybody here listen to this, duff is such an amazing guy)

 

 

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

Cool stories and very kind of Duff.

But man, I'm glad they didn't have Axl drive around on stage in a wall-mart scooter

14 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Sorry, I don't really get what you're saying. Is he to be held accountable of his own life or not? Aren't you contradicting yourself here or is it my english? 

How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying it's basically pointless to spend time blaming Axl for the situation he is in now for the most part. The same way it is pointless to blame someone with low IQ for being not very bright. Or the same way it would be pointless to blame Duff for his anxiety/panic disorder and his subsequent substance abuse that led to him nearly killing himself. I'd even say it's pointless to blame Izzy or Slash for their substance abuse and drug addictions, even though they have less of an 'excuse' than Duff, Steven or Axl.

Ultimately, you can never really understand what led someone to make the choices and mistakes they made unless you've walked a mile in their shoes, especially if it's a situation that progressively worsened over a long span of time in a slow, creeping kind of way (which is what I tried to outline above). It's easy to point fingers and say "He shouldn't have started drinking/doing heroin in the first place" or "He should have fired that woman long ago", but at the end of the day we weren't the ones living a certain situation and laying blame is the least helpful and unproductive thing you can do imo. The focus should be on finding ways to help people in fucked up situations (no matter how they got there) and how to help them make better choices.

Unfortunately for Axl though, we're only concerned spectators who can't do anything but watch videos like the one that appeared earlier with worry and slight disgust at the entire situation. He doesn't really seem to have anyone around him to help and he doesn't seem to have the strength to help himself either, so I think he's basically screwed, especially as he gets older. I think watching Axl turn into an old man won't be pretty, especially when people like Beta might need care themselves (or might die before him) and Beta's children will only become busier with their own growing families.

1 minute ago, alfierose said:

That is kind of weird however the size of the picture (relative to the apartment) makes me think it might be on it's way to an exhibition of some sort rather than something he wants adorning his wall. 

Yes, that thought has crossed my mind as well and I really hope you're right

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

That video was awful and I feel like a bit of a scumbag for even watching it, tbh, wished I hadn't.  Lesson learned.  It does, however, go some way in explaining why Axl is the way he is: being guarded and reclusive, not doing press and not wanting his bandmates to do press either, the copious contracts, surrounding himself with people he feels he can trust etc.  because if he doesn't, he's vulnerable.  He must feel as though he lives at the epicentre of a storm of vultures.   I can only imagine what that does to a person's mindset over the course of 30 years, how it must shape their attitude and behaviour, the decisions they make.  Does it, whether consciously or subconsciously, affect his ability to be creative, to work productively?  For all Axl's flaws, he must be a fucking strong person, emotionally.  He's a survivor.  Well, I guess he wouldn't  be here if he wasn't.  I wish I hadn't seen that image of him leaning against the pole, seemingly completely alone and exposed.  Where were his friends?  I mean, actual friends.  I think if any one of us had to spend a day or two in his shoes, we'd be pretty shocked at the the reality of his world.

That's how I feel as well.

Disgusting, really.

26 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

The bolded, that's what I felt / saw so much. But again, he's the one to be hold accountable for his lonelyness in his golden cage. His doing right there. 

Eh, I don't know. We've had this discussion before and I think it was @killuridols who once pointed out that Axl basically had care takers his entire life and was lucky that he always had someone who'd watch out for his ass and feed him/let him live with them. At first it was friends and girlfriends who did it out of the goodness of their hearts (Izzy, Gina, Erin, etc.), then it was hired babysitters (as Niven calls them) who got payed to babysit him.

But at this point, after so many years, I have no idea how capable Axl even is of living independently. And the situation he is in now is something that developed slowly over years (decades even) as a natural extension of one of his more professional babysitters (Duswalt) quitting and Beta moving in to fill that role. Duswalt strikes me as a nice guy and he kept some professional distance from Axl that probably wouldn't have led to the kind of emotional entanglement and co-dependency thing that is now going on with Beta and TB in general. Maybe if Duswalt had stuck around instead of Beta, that would have given Axl some room to grow and develop, maybe even start a family of his own or something.

But as it was, Beta swooped in, ready to play Mommy and Axl fell right into the 'baby role' for various reasons and he's seemingly become less independent and more helpless and confused ever since. I can't really hold Axl's emotional and psychological issues that led to the situation we have now against him, it'd feel like blaming someone who's mentally retarded or low IQ for not being able to understand a new concept or not being able to figure something out on their own.

6 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

How can I post an Instagram story? Why is Fernando having naked Axl with the skull in his living room? Jeez  They're so .... 

 

Do we know for sure that's Fernando's living room? I watched that video and was like....

"Why does Axl have a naked picture of himself in his NY apartment? "

"No wait, doe he even still have a NY apartment? Maybe it's Sante D'Orazio's apartment. So Sante D'Orazio has a giant picture of naked Axl in his living room? "

"But actually, doesn't Fernando live in NY too? And he was the one who made the video, SO DOES FERNANDO HAVE A GIANT PICTURE OF NAKED AXL IN HIS APARTMENT?!!! "

....

Jeeeeeez. This weirds me out. I don't know how to post an Insta story, but someone already made some screenshots

6 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

That's true! And I think that outburst came bc he was embarrassed.

Yeah, he seemed pretty embarrassed to me too.

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

I watched it again and I can't believe how stupid those people are. Vanessa, she's the one who came out first and was supposed to lead Axl to the car, but when she saw he wanted to sign some stuff she walked away, left him alone and disappeared. Axl got lost (also being drunk didn't help) and thought his car was the first one. Then Vanessa comes to yell to him "Axl, wrong car!!!"  and I hear some guy saying something like "doesn't matter, get in there anyway". The video cuts and then they make him get out of the car, he goes to the next one and I can see ANDREI already sitting at the front  and Axl is not allowed to get into that car either  and he goes to the next one and same shit!!! 

So, as you can see, he is the last one to get a fucking car while the rest of the leeches are already pretty comfortable in their car seats (which Axl pays for!!!! ) and that idiot surfer guy who is completely useless acts tough against the camera guy, loooool, of course they don't want fans to see the treatment they give to  uncle Axl but I'm so glad there was a camera there because this is yet another evidence of the freak show being totally incompetent 

And omg, how annoying all those people following Axl to ask for autographs when anyone with half a brain could notice he was not well, pissed off and done signing 

7 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Where the fuck is Gio to kick their asses??? And I don't mean only the ebayers and the camera guy, but the whole freak show.  Why is Axl leaving the club first (together with the intelligent models )? Where are Nando, Andrei and the rest? Why his car wasn't the first in front of the club? 

Dammit, Axl, come back to Europe. We will take care of you here 

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

His entourage is fucking useless, though. They live off him and they don't take care of him properly. 

I agree about the entourage being useless and not taking care of him.

What really struck me about this video is just how helpless, overwhelmed and exhaused Axl looks. Like a frail old man.

That moment when he just leaned on the lamp post there in a resigned sort of way was really awkward to watch.

The guy seriously needs some better nannies/care takers.

Catching up on this thread...

On 21.7.2017 at 4:12 AM, rendestroi95 said:

Wow that Duff Story

coolest guy ever my god

What Duff story did they tell?

And what was the story about Axl and his scooter?

6 hours ago, Andy14 said:

 

Pfffffffff.....

Title picture of this thread, anyone?

(And Axl is lucky Slash didn't swing his arm back more forcefully or he'd have hit him right in the nuts in a not so pleasant manner )

41 minutes ago, killuridols said:

How do we know he is good at it and why hasn't he done it before? He had a zillion years to do it. 

I figure he'd probably be good at it based on some of the CD songs and his general tendency to create long, dramatic, sweeping epics like November Rain, Estrananged, etc.

All of these would work well as movie scores imo, especially CD songs like Prostitute, TIL, TWAT and SOD. I listen to the instrumental versions of these songs a lot, and that's what I thought about them even before Axl mentioned he was into this kind of thing at the China Exchange thing. When he started talking about being into movie scores and soundtracks it all suddenly made sense lol.

As for the rest of your post, yeah, I agree, they should just put out the best record they can and not worry about it too much since it can never live up to expectations and past albums anyway. But this is Axl we're talking about and he over-thinks everything, so yeah, not sure anything is actually gonna happen.

---

Btw, just saw this posted on the show thread.

Been a long time since we saw pissy Axl

Though he's entirely justified here, these people are obnoxious. I feel like punching them in the face just watching that video

4 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

The AFD anniversary was just the straw that broke the camels back, for me. If nothing was going to happen at the anniversary, they shouldn't of plastered #appetite30 posters all over NYC leading up to the event. It's misleading and cruel to their fans to constantly give them hope and deliver nothing. If those posters hadn't happened I wouldn't of cared or had been disappointed.

Yeah those posters were dumb and pointless.

But what else do you expect from TB (I assume they were responsible for this)? They always manage to screw up in every way possible and this is just another example.

As soon as I heard Steven say that "Fernando had planned something special for the anniversary..." I knew it was going to be shit Because I really can't imagine Fernando or anyone else in TB ever doing anything that is actually cool or at least doing something right.

4 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

Then why not have some artistic integrity and go create those things? Why continue to milk Appetite and UYI to death if your interests are elsewhere? That's my issue, if none of them care about GNR or making that type of music again... then, don't.

I agree, but it's still disappointing to realize it was all for PR, though.

He also had that quote in his documentary "I don't care what it takes, I just want to be remembered" (also paraphrasing) so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Because around 50 Lebeises need some more luxury cars and apartments, and so will their children and children's children. I'm not even kidding, if you count the number of people Axl is financially responsible for, and then see the stuff they are apparently able to afford on Instagram... well, it turns my stomach to be honest.

Because Perla just took half of Slash's money and he's still responsible for taking care of 2 women and 4 children now who have grown to expect a certain lifestyle. And because Slash likes money as much as anyone else.

Because Duff also has a bunch of ladies who like to lead the good life. And also because I suspect Duff "I made millions investing into Starbucks and Microsoft before it was cool" McKagan simply likes to have a nice big pile of money tucked away, no matter how un-punk rock it may be.

On a less cynical note, I also think they simply enjoy playing with each other again for the time being. I've seen quite a few videos and pictures of these shows and they all (especially Axl) seem genuinely thrilled and very happy to be onstage together. Duff also supposedly said at one point that it was his goal to get Axl and Slash into one room and to make them talk to each other again. You could obviously argue that he only wanted to do that because he saw the profits of the potential reunion resulting from that, but I think it's more likely that he was just bothered by two people he was close with still not talking to each other after so many years (while he himself was on good terms with everyone (except Steven maybe)). So Duff did what he could to make that happen and he's probably thrilled he succeeded and they all might be weary of rocking the boat and the relative peacefulness between them now by getting down to business with issues that have a lot of potential for conflict, such as creating and recording new music.

6 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

...too dramatic...or not dramatic ENOUGH @Frey ?!?!?!

You know what, you're right.

This is a GNR board after all, therefore the drama should be up to 11! ALL DAY, EVERY DAY!!!

That's the only appropriate way to deal with a band that consists of nothing but drama.

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

This is standard die-hard fan's behaviour though, not something that characterises GnR or Axl fans in particular. Equally, in every fandom there are people who are more tolerant to/don't mind/accept criticism coming from "outside". I'd even say that, because of Axl's history and him being criticised harshly by his own fans, things here are more balanced in this regard. The latest example, I think, was Jason Newsted; some people attacked him, others didn't think he crossed a line with what he said, others said Newsted was right.

That being said, all of us, as music fans, have likes and dislikes. I don't think many people's musical preferences or opinions on musicians depend on whether said musicians have talked positively about Axl or not; many Axl fans like Metallica and Faith No More despite of what has been said by members of these bands. It's more the opposite, actually: people's stance on other musicians opinion has much to do with whether they already like these musicians/hold them in high regard. I, for example, think Gene Simmons is a creep and moreover I don't like his band; same goes, more or less, for Nikki Sixx, who said good things about Axl (other people, probably, would argue that Axl is as bad or worse than these two - I don't think so, but to each their own). Also, to me, Mike Patton's words don't have any value at all, more so since it's been revealed that it was just bullshit talk on his part and he didn't dare piss on anything

Exactly.

Said it much better than I could have.

19 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

And Spin has a little recount of an interview made in 1988

http://www.spin.com/2017/07/guns-n-roses-appetite-for-destruction-1988-profile/

“Slash and I almost got arrested in Seattle,” adds Duff. “We went back there for a little vacation, we were going to burn some bar down. Then on the way back to L.A., we were drunker than shit, and we sat next to this kindergarten teacher on the plane. First she told us to calm down. Then she pulled out this book she wrote called From A to Z, and she read it to us, and drew pictures for us. By the end of the flight we were so tranquil, we went right to sleep.”

 

This deserves more attention because it is hilarious

Axl was clearly right when he said they'd need a child psychiatrist. Or at least a kindergarten teacher, as it seems.

13 hours ago, killuridols said:

Im sorry about that! The only solution I can think of is if @Frey  could index the reviews on the first page so that you could catch up on that at least. Maybe the girls who went to the EU shows could help Frey by sending him the links to the page where they posted the review so he doesnt have to waste time looking for that 

I was planning on indexing these anyway. I want to go through the past 100 pages or so of this thread and index everything of importance. I only need to find the time to do so lol.

17 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Singing CD songs with Slash playing them is new to him and I think this is the main reason he likes them more. He also said he enjoyed singing Coma (apparently because he hadn't done that since the 90s, so it was kind of new to him as well).

But I also think that CD is still an "unfinished business" for him in the sense that he believes the songs are good and he wants them to be accepted by the fans, especially in the US. This is how he thinks; before the Illusions were released he said that even if they didn't sell, some day years later people would discover them and appreciate them; in 2011 he told Eddie Trunk that CD would find its way with the public - and probably he sees this tour as the last chance for it to happen.

This matter doesn't have to do with AFD though.

I also think singing CD songs (and Coma) is probably less boring to him than singing the AFD songs for the millionth time. And I can't really blame him, even I feel bored by AFD by now and I don't have to sing these songs every other night.

And I think there's also this point I just made over in the Izzy thread

1 hour ago, Frey said:

I disagree about Axl having lost his passion for music. I just think he'd rather be making and playing very different music nowadays. I think his China Exchange comments about movie scores were very telling. And if you listen to CD without Axl's singing, a lot of the songs on that album could easily be the background sountrack for big, melodramatic movies.

Duff was forced to put in the effort in the past, because compared to Axl and Slash, he was in a much worse position when it comes to publicity and relevance.

And as for Slash, Slash is the guy who back in the early 90s according to Alan Niven said "I'll do whatever it takes to keep this thing going and to keep the money rolling in. I don't wanna end up as a starving artist like my father." I paraphrased, but that was the gist of it and it tells all you need to know about where Slash is coming from. Also, Slash has said many times that he doesn't actually like doing interviews and PR work and only does it because he has to to sell his music, so he's probably pretty thrilled to rake in millions without having to do any of that nowadays.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if Axl went off to do some big, epic movie scores after this whole NITL tour is over. He's good at that kind of thing and I'd definitely be more interested in hearing that than in some Axl/Angus fake ACDC album.

(Obviously, I'd prefer a new GNR record over everything else, but if we don't get that, then...)

I also agree about CD being unfinished business for Axl. Axl appears to be a big believer in shoving things down people's throats until they do like it.* Apart from the UYI thing you mentioned, Axl also applied the "Make them like it"-strategy to AFD and was successfull with that. He even gave that advice to Baz, iirc. So it wouldn't surprise me if he was still trying to achieve something similar with CD.

*One can't help but wonder if Axl was forced to eat things he didn't like a lot as a child. I have a friend whose parents forced him (and me when I was over )  to eat veggies, fish and other stuff he didn't like. And by "forced" I mean made him eat it, even though he'd throw it back up again a few moments later. It was ugly to watch and frankly I think it was child abuse. As an adult, this guy is now similarly tenacous and persistent as Axl and also keeps pestering people about shit they're not interested in until they give in.

(That was my armchair psychology contribution for the day).

The new pictures here (or different versions of pictures we already know) are definitely cool.

(That's all I can say until I actually find the time to read this lol).

Thanks for sharing @Tori72

54 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, people are too negative. The more likely alternative to what we have today - which is a great live band that tours the world to huge acclaim playing large nostalgic setlists that encompass their whole history, if you didn't know - isn't that GN'R in 2017 would be a productive band like they were in the 80s, churning out fantastic records that would steer the music industry, but that GN'R would have been dissolved many years ago either due to deaths, lack of motivation or indifference. So the glass is more than half full but some fans will always be miserable shits.

It is simply not a matter of us not seeing (or hearing) the same thing, but having a different perspective on what the reasonable alternative to what we have, is. I got the fantastic band in the late 80s. I never expected it to last for long. No one really did. They were too messed up for that. BUT, lo and behold! they released another two orginal albums and then even a cover record. Wow. And then we got CD on top of that. It is much, muhc, MUCH more than what people actually thought would come out of this dysfunctional groups of addicts, retards and loonies. And now they entertain the world by playing huge shows. Yes, it is not as good as it were. Duh. But who could seriously expect them to be? Or be dissappointed they are not? Only people who aren't really grounded or never realized how fucked up the band was.

This is the dessert, it might not be as good as the main course but we really only paid for the entree.

I'm laughing at the way you phrased that, but I actually agree with you. We have very similar views on this subject.

32 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it is ever fair to criticize anyone for not doing as you want them to do. It's Axl's life, and just because he has a huge artistic talent doesn't mean he is obligated to use it to entertain us. He is not a hostage of his talent nor our wants.

16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, no one is saying you don't have the right to criticize. I just don't think it is fair to criticize anyone for what they decide to do with their lives when they don't hurt anyone, even if they can be considered to waste their talents.

I also agree with this.

Axl could spend his days decorating cakes and cupcakes and it still wouldn't be fair to criticize him for that.

As long as it makes him happy and he isn't hurting anyone, it's really none of our business.

Obviously as fans of his music this is very frustrating, but neither Axl nor anyone else in the band (because I've read similar complaints about Izzy for example) really are obligated to cater to our wants and desires.

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Listen. If another musician from a different band criticises Axl, watch the people on here go on about ''how he is a shit musician etc etc''. I think I can include that chap from Faith No More, Scot Weiland and about five million other people. Just wait until the next one comes along and you will see what I mean!

I have seen other people criticize Axl and sometimes these people (and the fan reactions) were justified, and other times they were not. I view these things on a case by case basis. Personally, I couldn't care less if morons like Gene Simmons or the coprophiliac guy from FNM who literally leaves his excrements lying around everywhere for other people to find get "shat on" by fans (if you will excuse the pun).

Now if it's someone who actually has something relevant or intelligent to say or criticize (e.g. Chris Cornell), that's different, but in cases like the above ones...

Whew, this thread is a bit too dramatic for me right now (tbh, this all feels like a huge over-reaction to me, but everyone is entitled to their feelings, so whatever).

So I'm just gonna say that if it's any comfort to anyone, I don't think an AFD5 reunion is impossible at all. It just will be in a completely unexpected way most likely and not for an anniversary or similar event. They've never done things in a very logical manner after all. And to me personally, it doesn't really matter. I don't really see the big deal about anniversaries anyway, and what's one more AFD anniversary that goes uncelebrated? Nothing great happened on all the anniversaries before this one either. I will be just as happy if we get AFD5 for a random show in Cleveland or something lol.

15 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

I expected this behavior from Axl. You could tell he lost the passion for music years ago. But Duff is a hard pill to swallow. I remember when he used to go have coffee with fans of his column when he was in town, just to talk to them and get to know them. He would always be so appreciative and say thank you constantly for the support. He still talked about music back then like he was a fanboy himself and it really seemed genuine. Now look at him... Where the fuck did that old version of Duff go? Or was it all just an act?

Slash was never super friendly towards fans but you could tell he was all about the music. It was like he couldn't write songs fast enough to keep up with his hunger for it. Now there's no new music in sight. He always said in every interview he would only reunite with GNR if it was for the right reasons... I guess we were wrong to interpret that as making music plus a full reunion. Maybe he only meant "for the right amount of money".

I disagree about Axl having lost his passion for music. I just think he'd rather be making and playing very different music nowadays. I think his China Exchange comments about movie scores were very telling. And if you listen to CD without Axl's singing, a lot of the songs on that album could easily be the background sountrack for big, melodramatic movies.

Duff was forced to put in the effort in the past, because compared to Axl and Slash, he was in a much worse position when it comes to publicity and relevance.

And as for Slash, Slash is the guy who back in the early 90s according to Alan Niven said "I'll do whatever it takes to keep this thing going and to keep the money rolling in. I don't wanna end up as a starving artist like my father." I paraphrased, but that was the gist of it and it tells all you need to know about where Slash is coming from. Also, Slash has said many times that he doesn't actually like doing interviews and PR work and only does it because he has to to sell his music, so he's probably pretty thrilled to rake in millions without having to do any of that nowadays.

10 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I think also there is more of an element of beating Stradlin/Adler over the head to legitimise/justify the 'reunion', i.e. ''Adler is a drug addict'', ''Stradlin's guitar was turned off' (to justify their absence). It was like this when Slash was absent and balmy nugnr/Axl fans would decimate his guitar/songwriting skills. I wonder where all those people are now haha? Like people who voted for Nixon post-Watergate I suppose?

This is such a ridiculous and clichéd post.

And so far from the truth it's laughable.

Because in reality, it is exactly like @Blackstar describes here:

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know what was happening here before the reunion and how many people/Axl fans were diminishing Slash's importance, but now I don't see the description of an "Axl nutswinger"(in regards to Izzy) applying to more than five forum members. There is a bigger number of people bashing Steven, but they're not all Axl fans.

There's one (1) Fortus fan (who may be a troll or not) who says how much Fortus is better than Izzy etc and 2-3 others saying Izzy couldn't play guitar, his guitar was turned off etc; and people react like it's an army of "Axl nutswingers".  Sometimes I think that people like to have ghosts to fight against...

There are also some who try to justify Izzy's absence by playing the "he quit the partnership" and "he doesn't like to tour" cards, but without disregarding Izzy's contributions. Some more are happy with the current lineup and don't care about Izzy not being there, but they don't talk negatively about him at all. And many others who like Izzy.

Without wanting to call out anyone here, the number of people on this forum who could be called "Axl nutswingers" really can be counted on one hand.

Hardly a relevant number and hardly the huge army of people that so many other people here (usually the ones who hate this reunion and/or Axl, or the ones who have a hard-on for Izzy or Steven) like to pretend exists to justify their opinions.

As for Slash, I used to lurk around here sometimes back in the day, and from what I remember the situation was very similar to what it is now: A handful of people/trolls who'd regularly talk shit about Slash and praise Ashba or Bumblefoot or whoever to the high heavens and who'd call Slash's fans "Slasholes". Slasholes would regularly fight with Axholes.

But again, hardly a particularly relevant number of people and most of them trolls who have long since moved on to doing god knows what, so who gives a fuck.

The notion that anyone who'd dare to criticize Steven or Izzy (or even dislike them! *gasp*) must have done the same thing to Slash and Duff back in the day because they base their opinions on who Axl currently gets along with has got to be the dumbest idea that I regularly see pushed around in this forum.

Personally, I never talked shit about Slash or Duff even during the dark pre-reunion days (why would I talk shit about my favorite guitarrist and bassist?), and yet, I still can't say I'm very fond of Adler and don't really care all that much if he is involved in this whole reunion thing or not. Imagine that.

People here seriously need to get over these dumb Axlite/Slashole/Izzy fanatic notions and just accept that not everyone will share your opinion on the guys in the band and this reunion and they might have good and valid reasons for that, without being Axlites or Slasholes or whatever the fuck else.

16 hours ago, thunderram said:

While I agree with both of you, as I am a BIG fan of ALL the original and even replacement members up until the band split, this person hating on IZZY is no different than the hate that is often spewed toward other band members and the collective band in general on a daily basis. There are lots of people that frequently post here that open profess to dislike the band and most it's music. So nothing surprises me anymore.

True.

While I personally can't understand hating Izzy and find it pretty baffling that anyone could, fact is that people here on this forum hate on Axl, Slash and even Duff every damn day.

So I really don't understand the outrage and shock on the rare occasions when Izzy does get the same treatment.

If the other guys are fair game for this type of thing, then so is Izzy.

10 hours ago, RONIN said:

Here's what you're missing - Izzy probably had no choice but to sell off his stake when he decided to quit the band. At that point, from what I understand, when a partner decides to quit or is fired, they are legally obligated/forced to sell their stake to the other partners who essentially will buy them out at for an agreed upon amount. This is what happened to Steven and Izzy. I imagine if they could have in any way retained their stake in GnR, they would have for obvious financial reasons.

Why didn't this happen to Duff and Slash? Because they didn't leave the original partnership. Axl did. Clearly he has legally amended the original partnership agreement in some way that blocked the other partners from buying him out - hence, the "new guns" contract which Slash and Duff were given to sign and which they ultimately refused to. Duff and Slash in essence lucked out into retaining their shares because Axl quit the original partnership and rendered it inert.

So when we look at hard facts, yes, Izzy and Steven forfeited their stake and sold it. Therefore, technically they aren't entitled to anything but the wages of hired help. When we look at this as decent human beings (which I'm assuming you are), it seems obvious that Izzy was not afforded the same luxury of retaining his stake in the band as the others. When you look at this as a fan and as a logical person - you would think -

"These guys are millionaires who are making 3 mil + / show - can't they carve out a decent sum to get Izzy on board - just for the fans? Is that a lot to ask for a reunion tour? Hey if they really want to bury the hatchet, no need to even offer to sell Izzy his stake in the band back, just write a new contract so that they can split the revenue equally like partners again. It would be a new beginning for the band after years of legal and ego motivated squabbling." Besides, it could only have helped their cause from a marketing, publicity and monetary standpoint.

The rumor from GnR "insiders" is that Izzy was offered an insulting sum of money on par with the hired help - which as a co-founder of the band, he naturally said fuck off to. Whether this rumor is true or not, who knows. Izzy doesn't seem to have diva tendencies so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt with this whole thing compared to the redhead and sellouts like Duff and Slash.

 “This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like ‘Fuck you! I’ve been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you, I’ll go play the Whiskey’. That’s what happened. It was insane.”

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-11-07/izzy-stradlin-in-too-deep

Seems pretty clear that Axl and Slash were legally maneuvering Izzy to hired help prior to his quitting. That was the final straw before he decided to quit. Who can blame the guy?  He was going to be legally demoted whether he liked it or not and Axl was even going as far as releasing press releases to MTV stating that Dave Navarro was being considered as a replacement for Izzy....unless he gave in and signed the contract. This is what these clowns were trying to do to the co-founder and one of the main songwriters of the band. No wonder he told them to fuck off.

Also mostly true.

Given that Slash and Duff only are in a better legal position than Izzy due to sheer luck for the most part (because they certainly weren't very smart either when it came to making business decisions back then) and that Izzy was given a pretty shitty deal by Axl and Slash*, one would think they'd at least consider paying him an adequate amount of money to make up for past injustices.

*Obviously, Axl and Slash would probably feel very differently about this. These two used to complain a lot about Izzy not "putting in the work", not taking things seriously enough etc. Which I also can understand to a certain extent. For a workaholic like Slash, who according to various people got up in the morning and was already doing business on the phone for hours  before lunch time even when he was a junkie, seeing one guy in the band not take part in band business and instead driving his bike around in the desert was probably severely vexing. Still, trying to demote your friend, band co-founder and one of the main song writers with some lame ass contract is a pretty messed up thing to do. The solution would have been to sit down and have a heart to heart with everyone involved and I'm sure they could have worked something out. But they've always been morons who failed at communication, all of them.

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I moved this post from the show thread, for not derailing it.

Remember that promo video before the "big announcement", the one that erased Izzy and Steven from history? It couldn't have been any more telling, yet there were people here still expecting that the announcement would have to do with the anniversary/AFD5 and then they were disappointed because it didn't.

Then that promo was forgotten and hopes got up again about the Apollo show almost out of nothing. Yes, I know, this time we had the billboards... but on the other hand, everything else was pointing to the opposite. And I'm sure that even without the billboards, people would have still expected something special.

I understand that this is a forum of die-hard fans who want and hope for more from their favourite band, but I think that some people choose to get delusional and then be let down. I'd like more too, but I see it as it is and don't expect much.

Exactly. I never believed for one second anything of importance was going to happen for this show and as a result I also don't feel angry or let down by it.

I didn't even listen to it, to be honest. At this point, I just don't really care about what they're doing anymore as long as everything stays the same.

6 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Oh no, that's just awful  

I know he had a very rough childhood but he always seemed like a man who held it together well. 

The poor soul 

I can't say I know much about him or Linkin Park, but that's exactly the impression I had of him too.

I was vaguely aware of his rough childhood as well, but he never struck me as a Kurt or Axl type so to speak, where you always worry about that kind of thing in the back of your head.

Very sorry for his friends and family, especially his children.

 

Yet another example of "You can never know what's really going on inside of someone and just how badly they're doing."

As if we needed another one after the ones we already had recently.

Shit like this makes me feel amazed (and grateful) we've still got all of our guys with us. They all came so close to either committing suicide as well or nearly killing themselves accidentally. Scary to think about.

RIP Chester Bennington.

I don't get why you're all so up in arms about this dumb show. It's just gonna be more of the same that we've had since the NITL tour started, only in a smaller venue and with a livestream.

MAYBE Steven will show up (if the sighting rumors are true) for a guest spot. But apart from that... pretty sure nothing exciting will happen. Boring.

On 16.7.2017 at 6:09 PM, Asia said:

Unless I'm mixing something up, I think it was in his book that they wouldn't let him to the coolest clubs since he ws underage and that he learned that if he sucks or tocuhes or wahtever (I'm not getting into that!) their dick, he'll have a free pass every time so he did. Something of that kind.

Oh okay, thanks.

It's been a long time since I read Steven's book, it's quite possible you're right and I just forgot about that particular story.

I only remember him talking about having sex with other guys for drugs and having sex with lots of older people in general while he was still pretty young (this is also mentioned in Slash's book I think).

19 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The guy's venomous hatred for Axl certainly takes away from his credibility. Moreover, his description of Axl doesn't match with the way other musicians (Tracii Guns, Chris Weber, Kevin Lawrence etc) who knew him at about the same period have described him (of course I'm talking only about things said in public and not stories/rumours/hearsay going around or people have shared with fans etc, which I have no idea about). It's not impossible, however, that there's some truth to what he says, especially if there are also "rumours".

As for where the hatred comes from, the first logical assumption that can be made (again, being in speculation territory) is jealousy (like @Lumikki and @Rocketqueen76 said) because a guy whom Jagosz probably saw as a nobody from Indiana and a bad singer (from what he says it seems that he considered anything other than heavy metal-y technical singing bad) made it and he didn't. But besides that, there are a couple of other possible reasons I can think of.

Another musician, this guy Nadir from the band London, said in an interview that Axl had fucked his girlfriend but he didn't want to say more about it (according to Tracii Guns there was some kind of beef between this guy and Axl and Axl beat him up in the end). I think I've read 1-2 other stories like that, and we also know that Axl did this with Slash's girlfriend too. As much as "dispensable" girlfriends were for these guys, this thing would surely hurt their male pride. And if Jagosz had provided Axl a place to stay and Axl returned the favour with something like this, it's expected that he would've held grudge; and, if there's truth in the part about Axl selling himself to guys for money, then learning (supposing that he heard about it later) that the guy who had taken his girlfriend was a "fag" would make it even harder to bear.

Another thing is that, when GnR made it, probably many people that knew them before/were in bands with them approached them asking for favours of any kind, from money to pushing their demos to the label or have their bands open for them. So if the guy expected something from Axl (because he thought Axl owed him) and didn't get it, maybe it explains the bitterness to an extent.

The bolded is  a good point and probably one of the most likely scenarios that happened. Some little "fag" from Indiana fucking his girlfriend would wound the pride of a guy like that and then that same guy also actually making it big in the business while he himself never amounted to anything... I could see that being enough to piss off a guy who tends to hold grudges. Though it's still baffling to me anyone would hold grudges for three decades. But then again, I never could understand Axl's and Slash's drama either on a personal/emotional level and always thought they were being ridiculous.

Jagosz asking for favors of Axl is a good guess too. I also agree about Jagosz' impression of Axl being very different from what other people (like Chris Weber) at the time have said about him. They tend to describe him as a nice, shy and soft-spoken guy who wasn't doing hard drugs iirc.

16 hours ago, Blackstar said:

A note on Rocket Queen lyrics and Alan Niven, since it's brought up:

It is known that Axl played with perspectives and that, according to himself, the first part is from Barbi's POV and the second from his own.

So the "speaker" in the main part is Barbi, a female character; and the chorus is from the same perspective (it makes more sense anyway) and it's actually "here I am, (I'm) your Rocket Queen", but because it would sound weird coming from a guy's mouth (let alone the misunderstanding that it'd cause), he played with the similar sound of "and you're a Rocket Queen".

I've always found the roles in the song interesting: Barbi, the woman in the song, is the wild one, and Axl, the guy in the song, is the sweet one.

Now, if and how much Axl, as the person who wrote the lyrics, identifies with the female character he impersonates, is open to speculation... (probably Alan Niven found it odd that a guy wrote a song from the perspective of a woman).

I was aware of the different POVs used, but I do agree the roles in the song are interesting.

Who knows, maybe Alan Niven (who is most likely aware of the different POVs as well) has trouble separating Axl from the lyrics of the song because he's singing it (and Niven may or may not know certain things about Axl which tend to fit with the "Barbi" POV bits), which might have contributed to his weird comments in that interview.

16 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Marc Canter's account, from his book:

Axl and I went down to the West Hollywood Sheriff’s Department to bail Slash out. By the time we arrived, Slash had already been shipped off to the L.A. County jail. So we headed downtown. On the way we picked up some Tommyburgers and listened to the demos. When we arrived at the jail to post Slash’s $178 bail, one of the officers noticed the medallion in the shape of a tiny gun hanging around Axl’s neck. Evidently alarmed at the threat posed by Axl’s necklace, the officer threw him up against the wall and frisked him. Finding no additional threatening objects, he let Axl go, and we went back to my car and waited about five hours for Slash to be released.

I don't know what value $178 had in the mid 80s, but it doesn't seem to me like a large sum of money. I suppose it wasn't so difficult for Axl and Marc to do some kind of fundraising among their friends/people they knew and collect that bail money.

I think both scenarios are possible, ie. Niven talking out of his arse (either to indirectly diss Axl or to defend him) or having something more specific in mind  he'd heard from Izzy or someone else, but I'm inclined to believe it's the former.

I regards to people Axl might have talked to/shared things like that with (if these stories are true of course, which we have no proof for): Pamela Manning has said that Axl had opened to her about things and that he has secrets the public doesn't know. These "secrets" could either have to do with his family (for example Tom Zutaut's story about his stepfather) or stories like the one we're now discussing. I somehow see Axl feeling more comfortable to share this kind of secrets with a woman like Pamela than with a guy friend.

 

Okay, $178 doesn't seem that much. I always imagined it was more.

According to online calculators, $178 back then would equal around $400 today (or slightly more, depending on the year and calculator you use).

Which is a more significant amount, but still not necessarily something that would have given Axl no other choice than to sell himself. As you said, it seems doable to scrounge up that kind of money by fundraising, stealing from strippers' purses etc.

Good point about about Pamela Manning, I had completely forgotten she'd said that.

I agree that the "secrets" Axl told her about are likely the kind of thing you are suggesting- either Tom Zutaut type events or the kind of thing we're discussing now.

Though both of these things (assuming for a moment they're both true) might actually be connected; iirc there's a much higher incidence of people who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhoods or other points in their life among people who engange in prostitution than in the general population. One often sets the course for the other, unfortunately.

(About Axl feeling more comfortable sharing this kind of thing with a woman rather than a guy friend... It depends, I guess. Back when I was a kid and some guy tried to molest me, I first told my dad and my best buddy at the time. Even young as I was back then, telling my mom or sisters somehow felt more awkward to me. Something to do with not wanting to look like less of man in front of a woman probably, I don't know. Though in Axl's case, and given the super-macho and sexist environment he was in at the time, I could see it being easier to talk to a woman. Less judgement there most likely and possibly also a lot of understanding from personal experience.)