Sunset Gardner

tsi was a collection of punk covers, not a bunch of random genre spanning songs (all AMAZING songs don't get me wrong).  

If they do another covers album, and they shouldn't, let tsi stand on its own, BUT if they did I hope the would do what THE STONES just did with blue and lonesome - an excellent blues cover record that I would recommend to ANYONE in the forum who hasn't heard the record yet.  

Just now, Sunset Gardner said:

tsi was a collection of punk covers, not a bunch of random genre spanning songs (all AMAZING songs don't get me wrong).  

If they do another covers album, and they shouldn't, let tsi stand on its own, BUT if they did I hope they would do what THE STONES just did with blue and lonesome - an excellent blues cover record that I would recommend to ANYONE in the forum who hasn't heard the record yet.  

The "line-up" you mention of hired paid employees pretending to be the band gnr would still be the same pathetic lie now that it was then.  

17 hours ago, janrichmond said:

ok now i'm gonna give Riad a listen @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle wish me luck!

just please be careful, we'd hate to lose you from the forum.  

really dig this, great song and great tribute.  Well done gnr. 

36 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

How is a song a 'lie' exactly?

I kinda hope they bring back Scraped, just for the lulz.

when it's sold as gnr and it's not really gnr it's a lie.  A lie axl paid expensive lawyers to enable.  

i kinda hope they add more guns songs in the set as opposed to more of axl's nonsense.  So many great deep cuts they are just ignoring to appease the crybaby singers relentless efforts to legitimize his fake gnr record.  how about they break out the acoustics, sit in a circle and do "you're crazy"?  Wouldn't THAT be fun and exciting and better than more solo record rubbish?

wow what a joke... ANOTHER lie from axl's solo record that NOBODY wants to hear.  if they play a "new" song and it's a CD song everyone in the audience should turn their back to the stage.  

I think they're working on a new arrangement for "the seeker".  

1 hour ago, Modano09 said:

So what happened to all that money Izzy was paid in exchange for his share in the band? 

hopefully he saved his money and invested it and is living the good life he deserves for being the most important member of Guns N' Roses.

but I'm talking about NOW not twenty-five years ago when izzy left the band at exactly the right time.  The band was already over, the songs and legacy were already written when izzy left to get sober and get his life together.

this time around izzy was left behind over money but it back fired, slash and duff exposed themselves as greedy old men and axl lied to Brazilian tv the same way he lies to himself and the same way he lies to us. 

they will tour next year, it will be without izzy and it will be cheap and grosse.

izzy, izzy, bo bizzy, banana fana fo fizzy, fi fie fo mizzy....  IZZY!

count on more shows... as long as there's money to be made and social media for Susan Holmes and Meegan Hodges to post pictures, I think slash and duff will continue to shamelessly sell izzy out long into the future.  

as far as axl and Team Yes they too are hungry for cash and axl WILL NEVER pass on the opportunity to try and legitimize his solo songs from his solo record for the two or three people who care.  

i think this tour will go as long as possible, even at the expense of new material.  I'd count on more shows next year.  

all the versions by Guns N' Roses are AMAZING, some better than others... but Axl and his employees covering gnr doesn't count and never will.  there's a cover band down at my local pub that does a killer version of night train too... but they don't count either.

1 hour ago, Gnrcane said:

In Axl's defense, except for Steven, the band members left. Whatever their reasons, it wasn't 100% Axl's fault. Even though Slash and Duff left because they didn't want to deal with Axl's antics and musical direction you have to take into account that, at the time, Slash was a heroin addict and Duff was a serious alcoholic. Some of the blame for the breakup is on them also.

i can't disagree...

axl is obviously a powerhouse and I've been a fan since I was a kid.... but I have to go with Freddie.  Freddie was the truth, Freddie didn't break up his band and steal the name and then tour the world alone with employees as "queen".  for that alone I give it to Freddie.  

but I'm rooting for axl. 

it sounds like the communication lines are open which is really great, I hope axl and slash can keep it going to the point the other three band members are welcomed back into the circle of trust.  

the no "managers" part is a joke... Team Yes is the most corrupt incompetent mess I've ever seen.  it's hard to not wonder how much better everything would be and how much sooner things would've come back together had the luckiest nanny in Malibu not been enabling the singer.  

But I digress... that they are talking about things and working on the relationship is very encouraging and shows how they really longed for one another during the lost years.  

4 hours ago, Use Your Delusion II said:

 

Accurate.  That being said, they should have let him play more songs.

I totally agree, regardless of anything he said or did they owe him half the set imo.  

love 50's music, love this song and love their version, it was this kind of openness and willingness to experiment that made this band great in their day.  here's to a second act for gnr. 

Thanks for this, Sidman.

I prefer the gnr version... there's just something about when the five real members or Guns N' Roses play together, it could never be matched.  

izzy is/was everything.  anyone who understands music, how it's written, structured and conducted knows izzy was the whole thing, he was the whole entire stage the others were able to go out and perform on.  

i get a real kick out of the people on this forum who try and  disrespect and discredit mr. stradlin then pay top dollar to go to shows and listen to his songs.    

the chief songwriter of any band is the most important, whether rythum guitar or piano or whatever.  izzy was the filter every gnr song went through.  

I think Steven played his cards wrong.  His mothers book was the wrong book at the wrong time and whoever advised him to do press for it didn't have his best interests in mind and maybe had a financial interest in the book.  His interviews were lame, he should've kept his mouth shut, I can't imagine the singer and his enablers at Team Yes were excited that steven was already off the rails having been back in the circle for five seconds. 

with that said I'm glad he's got the self respect to deny the single song guest spots they were insulting him and us with.  

clearly slash and duff are sellouts and only care about money and posting pictures on social media, its best Steven stays away, he needs real people and real friends at this point in his life.  not lord axl and what remains of the band he did his best to destroy.  

Steven was there when it was honest and when it all mattered.  afd and the songs Steven demoed for UYI are the core of gnr.  axl must hate that, and slash and duff must just not care, they're too busy counting the extra money they got after selling out izzy stradlin.  

16 hours ago, RONIN said:

What is your favorite Prince album? I think his artistic peak was Sign o' the Times.

 

I just think that they are coming to the table with some potential drawbacks:

1. Past their prime. Not much if any creative/artistic spark left given what they've been up to in the past 7-10 years. I don't think Axl has anything left in the tank creatively and his voice is diminishing fast. He won't even sound as good as he did on Chinese Democracy. No amount of studio tinkering can change that very real fact. They also seem to be gunning towards putting together another album in the style of Appetite or a traditional rock record which is not interesting to me. They did it and they did it perfectly with AFD (and LIES). You can't rehash greatness. They had the right idea to move on with UYI and Chinese. Keep moving forward. But this band is trying to turn back the clock and go backwards. That just isn't interesting artistically. GnR turning into an AC/DC style band is boring. 

2. Their process for songwriting is not conducive to producing their best work - Mark Canter has made this point before. They need to sit in a circle and write their songs like AFD and LIES. A lot of the Illusions was created like that as well. They don't do that anymore. Axl has his ridiculous process of writing against a wall of sound which is how 30-40% of Illusions was written as well Chinese Democracy. Slash, at this stage of his career, does not like nor need to craft his work much - if anything, he's even more content to jam it all out in as few sessions as possible. His hubris will be even bigger than it was in '95 when he refused to give Axl multiple take after take for a song. The only silver lining here is that during the Axl interview last year, he mentions that he would be open to writing lyrics first instead of trying to write to an existing riff. He also mentions how Slash is willing to "work harder" - i.e. re-record his riffs endlessly until they sound "right". Perhaps that could bode well for a future session, who knows. Maybe they've realized their flaws and are open to changing their process.

3. No Izzy. Even if you don't like Izzy - he has a grounding effect. He has an astute sense of how to put together a song and his stripped down approach is drastically needed to counterbalance Axl and Slash's excess. Duff alone cannot serve as the counterweight to those two. Without Izzy, you've lost Axl's strongest writing partner. From a quality control POV, this is a major creative blow. It seems to me like Axl and Slash want to go back to meat and potatoes rock like AFD rather than any experimental Illusion/Chinese style music. If that's the case, they're really shooting themselves in the foot without Izzy's input.

4. Fortus - An unproven session musician that is a talented player. We know next to nothing about his creative potential other than the fact that he's nearly 50 without anything truly memorable on his resume. I'm not holding my breath that he blows us away with GnR. 

Basically, the formula and process for creating a GnR record has changed significantly. And all these guys are a decade removed from their best creative years. I'm sure anything they put together will be strong but it's just inevitable that it will be a case of diminishing returns. With such a mighty legacy in tow, why not just work with the hundreds of tapes of riffs from your best years and put together 1 or 2 great albums from that? At least it would be cohesive to some extent with what came before. Stack the odds in your favor. I also think the vault material has a lot more potential artistic merit than anything they cobble together now in their twilight years. 

Maybe if it was the AFD 5 lineup trying to put together one final kickass album to live up to their legacy and having something to prove to the world - that might have enough of a spark to have a shot at getting near their best work. That's the lineup that everyone wants an album from and in that scenario, I could see the merit in working on brand new material. Whatever Axl and Slash are proposing right now isn't really even Guns n' Roses with Fortus' inclusion.

where would this forum be without Ronin's input?  thank you for this post.  very smart and well thought out.  

they should absolutely make new music.  they should recommit to each other, recommit to their craft, and they should be very, very smart and recommit to izzy (the best songwriter they know).  

they should unleash a new gnr chapter and blow everybody away.

with jack white producing. 

The Rolling Stones ARE a sacred band, gnr WAS a sacred band up until axl destroyed the name and brand with his little boy ego and hired employees. 

izzy is no ones replacement, any of these bands should get on their knees and beg izzy to share the stage with them.  

I hate when they play CD songs like its gnr.  

noone is too hard on the band members - the real band members: izzy, slash, duff, steven, matt.   it's not their fault.  

it's axl and Team Yes that history should hold accountable for the lost years, the fake employee "lineups", the lost money, the lost body of work… 

I agree, it's a sensitive fan base, I certainly am one of them, I personally don't feel obligated to defend or debate many other bands, but after the bullshit and destruction axl and his lawyers and  fake management pulled, I get that people want to set the record straight that axl and his employees were straight up bullshit and the nitl tour proves it every night.

gnr is an aggressive band with an aggressive sound, then on top you have what axl did to the band/brand which is widely seen as outrageous.  the difference between other bands and gnr is how axl went on by himself claiming the name and trying to claim the credit by erasing and refusing to even acknowledge the writers and architects of the band he tried to steal. 

I get the Pink Floyd analogy about syd and roger waters, and for the record I don't consider anything WITHOUT roger waters to be true Pink Floyd, however the "core" of the band was intact, it wasn't like David Gilmore went out as PF without any members. they were all there except for waters so there is way more legitimacy for me.  I see Syd as Steven, a great talent but too fucked up to be a part of it. 

The passion and sensitivity that comes with guns isn't a band thing, I enjoy people who have different positions and aren't afraid to share. 

hey, fuck it, it beats talking politics.  

I love this band and I saw four shows... but I've learned slash and duff will sell out izzy over money,  and that nothing is sacred.  

and I strongly disagree about any credit being given to Team Yes.  gnr is the most mismanaged band in the history of the world... and Beta's the luckiest babysitter in Malibu.

there's a difference between managing a band and enabling axl through sleazy business tactics.