Tonto

3 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

Yeah. Whatever man. 

Just a joke, bud. 

28 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

I feel safe in this thread 

There are no safe spaces for you to hide. People with different opinions will find you.

1 minute ago, Kris_1989 said:

I liked you better when you had a Karl Pilkington profile pic, maddogjones.

I know who Karl Pilkington is but I don't know who maddogjones is, what?

Just now, ludurigan said:

yes, you are correct. same thing. a fucking lie. no way to sugar coat it

all of the GNR guys knew it. including izzy

 

I would prefer none of that tinkering with live albums or supposedly live albums.

4 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

about lies, check live era -- such a fantastic live album. i cant actually stop listening to those axl live vocals

Well, what about Live Like a Suicide, same thing, no? The fake crowd?

38 minutes ago, killuridols said:

So you joined 5 days ago and you think you have an authority to judge the fans in this forum?

Impressive.

And cringeworthy.

Oh, and btw, long time anything and fair-weather whatever are contradictory concepts, so check on that before telling people they've missed on points. It looks to me you've missed them all

 

I have been reading this forum since 2004 or something I can judge who I want. It's not personal, mate, don't get so upset. It's a discussion, some peoples opinions I respect, some I don't. One difference between me and you is that I respect everyones right to have one, even if it differs from my own, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

You don't know what a "fair weather fan" means, this is very clear. I'll fill you in. A fair weather fan is a term usually used to describe fans of sports who root for their team when they're winning or doing what they want them to do but shit on them when they're not. Does that sound familiar? You've stuck your head up and been very brave with a few posts this last hour; fair weather fan, my gnr history, etc. And you have had your head taken clean off with my replies, but I respect that you had a pop. No shame in trying.

Here endith the lesson.

2 minutes ago, tremolo said:

What a load of poop.

Izzy was bad and mean because he didn't bow to Axl's whims... boo-hoo!

I think that in short, Izzy had/has a low tolerance for bullshit, that's what drove him away from the band. He was sober enough to realise that Axl was trying to take over and he decided not to be a part of it.

He did bow, he bowed out, couldn't even stick around to work things out with the band he co-formed. It wasn't going his way so he left. It's boo-hoo for Izzy and you not anyone else.

@KillYourIdols I'm glad it's so amusing to you that I claim that Axl was amicable with Slash before 2015, but the joke is on you. Marc Canter confirmed that Axl wanted Slash to play on 3 songs on Chinese Democracy. How's my GN'R history now? Izzy and Duff both played with Axl before the reunion and Axl made peace with Adler too, only to have it blow up in his face, typical Adler style.

Fernando is the manager of Guns N Roses, not Axl personal trainer, what does his size have to do with anything, it clearly doesn't negatively impact his singing voice, look at 2010, Axl was bigger than in 2014.

What you want is a manager who get’s things done for you, right? If Fernando was getting everything you wanted done you would think he is great. That’s not his job, he doesn’t work for you. You can not like him if you don’t want to, fine, but to insinuate that he’s not qualified for the job because he doesn’t manage other acts or because he learnt on the job is very strange and shows a clear bias. If you think the manager of Guns N Roses was not involved and was not instrumental in the negotiations of this reunion, then you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Just now, ludurigan said:

i believe axl said the wouldnt play with slash ever again, "not in this lifetime". i also believe the current guns n aliens tour was named after that famous quote. but i may be wrong

oh yeah, i agree with you, its nice when people change their minds.

now off topic, can you provide source for izzy being offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio and turning it down? i dont know muchh about axl solo career and thats an interesting topic that i dont remember ever being mentioned anywhere else

I don't get your point, it's not a lie to say that, he changed his mind. A lie would be him saying that he never said that, something he hasn't said. He even named the tour after that statement, he took a shot at himself and you call him out for it? 

The source is Izzy Stradlin. He said it in a interview at some point, have a search for it mate, I don't have time right now, but yes, I was surprised when I read that too, not surprised Izzy said no, but that Axl made the offer.

1 minute ago, ludurigan said:

I dont know anything for sure. But i have been reading/listening/watching interviews and statements from all these guys for nearly three decades.

If you consider Axl trying to push that obscene contract to Izzy and Slash erasing Izzy parts without asking him or even letting him know as "normal" stuff that you do to a bandmate, ok. I dont think that is normal or even acceptable. If a person does that to a bandmate, would you trust this person statement in interviews?

These guys have been caught lying more than one time.

Dont even need to go so far back. Go back a few years and Axl was saying repeteadly that Slash was better avoided and that he would never be with Slash again. And Slash said just a while ago that he was open to do a reunion if it was the five guys for the right reasons.

Yeah.

It's really easy to believe these guys.

It's not a lie to say Slash is better off avoided, it's not a lie to say that he would never play with Slash again. A lie would be saying that he never played with Slash in GN'R, see the difference? Clearly as time went on wounds were healed. People can change their mind, right? Izzy wanted nothing to do with Axl and his new line up's, he was offered to take Paul Huge's spot at rock in rio, he turned it down. Then, 5 years later things changed again, and we see him back on stage with Axl.

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

With 56 posts, I doubt you can judge who's a fair weather fan in this forum and who's not.

Unless you're the alt of someone else who's spent a long time here.... and even in that case, you should know better, there are people here who've been fans for an eternity.

Hahaha, really? That's how you judge someones authority? By how many posts they've made on a message board? That is so sad and everyone reading this right now is cringing. Even the ones who agree with your points you've now lost, ouch! What's next? Comparing how many Facebook friends we have? 

I never said anyone hadn't been a fan for an eternity, not important to me how long someone has been into GN'R, it has nothing to do with being a "fair weather" fan, you can be a fan for a short time or be one for a long time, doesn't matter, doesn't change your fair weather status. You have missed the point (again).

Just now, killuridols said:

My original comment was that Fernando never worked other job that is not GN'R, under his mother's wing and Axl's protection, which basically means that when he started everything about this band was done, worked out and functioning. His training cannot be compared to another person who begins in the industry managing small bands and fighting to have them signed, or to get them be heard by record companies, or getting them into festivals. He entered a company that was already set up, working and mainly run by Axl, who is the one who makes the biggest decisions, not Fernando.

You argued about what is wrong with learning in the job, assuming that I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about getting a job or how the employement world works. I wasn't questioning the way people usually work their way up in an industry or company. I was questioning the way TB did it and that's about it.

If you think that a band like Guns N' Roses deserves to be managed by NEWBIES, fine. That's your opinion; clearly not mine.

Why do you twist my words?

My original comment is: "The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone". Translation for the dumb ones: Throughout all the years the members of this band spent away from each other, the reunion phantom haunted them all the time BUT each person was not ready for it at the same time as the others. When Axl wanted Slash, Slash wanted to go solo or he created another band and dedicated his time to that. Then Axl did not want Slash anymore, wanted to continue with his nuGN'R for all the time it lasted. He said Slash was a cancer "better be removed" and the least he heard about him, the better.... Do you think those are the words of someone who wanted a reunion? I think not in 2009, at least.

I said "Most of the time, Axl didn't want Slash back (...)"... Did you read well now? AXL, AXL, AXL...... Axl spent a whole decade and 5 more hating on Slash and not wanting to see his face, so yes, I think it is safe to say MOST OF THE TIME in this case.

As for the rest of your butthurt comment.... how many members did the original lineup have? If my imagination doesn't fool, there were five of them. Not so hard to recall what FIVE GUYS manifested about the reunion since 1995 or from whenever you want to track it back. They've given interviews and they can be found online for anyone to see. No need for surveys because they are public figures and the reunion has been a recurrent topic ever since they split.

 

So you can't be a manager of an already established band? Fernando has worked with GN'R for years and worked his way up to manager. He's been around it since he was a kid and learn't from the band and all the managers the band had on the way. His job is to get the things done, things that the band want to get done, do you think he'd still be there if he wasn't achieving that? 

Do you think I don't know that Axl makes most of the decisions? Really? Can you tell me of one other band on GN'R's level where the manager makes all the decisions? The manager works for the band! It sounds like you have an issue with managers in general mate, because nothing you've posted here backs up your position that he doesn't deserve his place as manager. You think Axl, Slash and Duff are drafting contacts all night? That's management and the lawyers. Do you think Axl, Slash and Duff are handling the logistics of the world tour? No, that's management and the promoters. 

Yes, I know the history of Guns N Roses, thank you very much, but there were many times over the years when all sides were amicable and they just couldn't get it done. It's not been 20 years of feuds, there have been ebbs and flows. To think that the manager of guns n roses didn't help to make the reunion happen on a business level is incredibly naive and only shows your inherent bias.

Further, nearly all of the original members now put the destruction of Guns N Roses down to the business side of things, managers, lawyers, etc, so I'm curious as to who exactly you think is qualified to manage the band and would be able to respect all sides of the deal?

7 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

None of this matters, I don't care if he sounds good in concert or whatever. The facts are he doesn't change his lazy ass voice when he knows the show is being recorded or broadcast. I'd give Axl a huge pass if he had shown an ability to turn it on for a broadcast event, but no Axl will get torn apart by a soundboard 

I would say he get nervous with these live broadcasts, he certainly has a consistent history of fucking up live on TV or radio. His very best performances are usually found on bootlegs or youtube videos, why care more about a show that is being broadcast than one that is not? It doesn't make any sense. I would say it's a bit of reach to say that he doesn't give a fuck about concerts that are being broadcast and therefore doesn't put the effort in, he probably gives too much of a fuck and bottles it.

5 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

Yes. It is a fact that Axl sounds bad. Its not an opinion. Go and listen to the 2016 North-american leg.

Anyway, ill stop here because some guys clearly just dont get it.

You don't know what facts or opinions are then, that's quite disturbing. It's not a hard concept to grasp, you could probably pick it up in a few years.

I'm happy to offer to tutor you, let's say, $5000 per hour, how does that sound? Don't worry, mate, lots of people suffer with illiteracy, we'll get you ship shape in no time!

6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

One thing is the show and other different it is Axl's voice. We were talking about Axl's voice here.

Most reviews I've read oftenly got something not so positive to say about Axl's voice but in general, he gets a pass because well, the guy is 55 and he is not atrocious either.

And I really doubt the regulars in this forum are "fair weather fans". That kind of fan is what you can find at the shows, not in a nerdy Internet forum. Most people here are die-hards.

Axl uses his voice at the shows, he hasn't released any album for a long time, we're talking about Axl's voice where he uses it.. at the shows! 

The fan reviews from the shows largely feature positive comments on Axl's voice, check out ticketmaster or something, I just have and it's very positive. Very different than the vibe here, casual fans especially think he sounds great and the press reviews say the same thing. I'm not saying everyone thinks that, clearly they don't, but it's not a problem like some here like to think. No one is going home upset because of his voice, quite the contrary, many think he's the best he's been for years.

A "fair weather fan" is someone who changes or removes their support when things don't go their way, this place is a cunt hive for fair weather fans.

Just now, double talkin jive mfkr said:

im going to agree to disagree 

don't cry was the beginning of the end for that trilogy - although the least pompous of them - NR still a good video - estranged an even better one but all the more pompous and actually alienated a lot fans and people from Axl - as it was completely self indulgant and made him look like an ego driven troubled individual in pretty much each video when something simpler and less concept driven would've brought the band together better 

Fair enough and it certainly did alienate some fans but it brought in the casuals, those videos only made the band bigger worldwide. It's sort of like Sweet Child O' Mine, they had cross over appeal. When a band changes of course some fans are going to be left behind, you don't like the current line up much and that's fair enough, but it's one of the biggest tours ever and it's obviously the right thing to do for the band and for most of the fan base, the attendance numbers don't lie, THIS IS THE REUNION most wanted. If it wasn't you would expect them to maintain the draw they had with the previous line ups without Duff and Slash, but they don't, they smash that.

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

You are replying your own question.... You say they've worked with other artists but you can't type one single name so everything you say about it is plain LOL.

The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone. Most of the time Axl didn't want Slash back or let's say, he was committed to not need Slash anymore and move on with his nuGNR project. He failed badly with it but he kept going until he found himself cornered by situations that he couldn't escape anymore.

 

I am replying to your statement and I quite clearly concluded my sentence with "TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead." Clearly, I don't care about that, as it's not the point I was making. You brought that up, mate, please try to keep up.

Most of the time it wasn't wanted by everyone? How can you say "most of the time"? Did you conduct a survey of all members at all times during the last 25 years to see what each and every band member wanted to do? "You can't generalise like" I think you said.

Just now, Darkenchantress said:

Guns n' roses had stopped being a "team" way before that, actually. 

Some people have different strengths, you might not like those videos, Axl may not even like them now (most artists are very critical of themselves) but they propelled them into superstars (along with the great tunes of course). Izzy didn't like Axl's vision, fine, but he could have supported, the rest did and we know they weren't that crazy about them. Izzy didn't want to be in a big band like that, god knows why you wouldn't want to try to be as big and successful as possible, but there you go. The videos worked out, they were a good move for the band.

1 hour ago, soon said:

I love it and I know it will be in my head for days.  I know I will love it forever.  But I wonder if they told Frank to come in fast on the snare at the end there or if they told Frank to come in fast. Slash uses head movement to indicate a slow down to Frank at end, but that doesnt mean Frank was faster then they'd arranged.  But it also could mean that.

I do love it exactly as preformed.  Magical performance.

Dizzy plays beautifully to, as an aside.

I liked when he did that actually!

13 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

Izzy has said a couple of times that, since he didn't have a say in the videos, he didn't want to be a part of them. Simple as that.

The definition of a team player!

Just now, killuridols said:

If you're gonna talk about contradictions you should check your own. Because 1) you don't have statistics to say "an opinion most GN'R fans do not agree with". Have you asked every GN'R fan in the world? You clearly haven't so don't make generalizations and 2) The reviews of the shows are not made by fans but by journalists, who usually dont even attend the whole show, just some songs (because that's what they are allowed to presence for free) and they write a couple things, it is all fine. The show in general it is good and worth of getting recommended, like a review would, but Axl doesn't sound consistent throught the whole show and that's the truth.

The attendance at the shows and the reviews from THE FANS after the shows speak for themselves. I was talking about the fans, fans do post reviews online, ya know?

Have I asked every GN'R fan in the world? You know it is possible to be general and to look at patterns and come to a conclusion without asking everyone in the worlds opinion. The tour is an overwhelming success it's not the shit show you would think if you only read this board and the opinions of fair weather fans with terminal cases of misery. 

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Of course it's not. But one thing is starting really low in the ladder and different it is starting pretty high in the ladder, like Fernando did.

Show me what other bands and music industry job he's had then I'll believe you he's got previous experience. Good luck on your search

And I really doubt they pulled off the reunion

The reunion is the result of several things happening, but more precisely: Axl's nuGN'R line-up and finances imploding. Seeing the band sinking, losing money, owning money to employees and basically seeing the band getting reduced to a Vegas act is what made Axl wake up from his stubborness. It was a survival move to save the band. Nothing to do with TB talents or whatever you're trying to say here.

Why do I need to show you what other experience he has had? I never said he had any other experience with any other bands, but TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead.

Who put together all of the different members and hashed out the deals? You think they get paid for doing nothing? The reason for Axl wanting the reunion isn't important, all sides can want to do something and still not pull it off (Izzy Stradlin, anyone?). A reunion was close before the greatest hits came out, Axl wanted Slash on CD back in 2001, none of that happened. This reunion nearly didn't happen and all sides wanted it! Just because someone wants something that doesn't make it a done deal. They pay these people for a reason, they're not icing balls and making lattes backstage all night.

24 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

Agree..if we didn't have so many dumbass acceptance fans that use age, fatigue, and other garbage to explain his "clean voice" or wouldn't say "wow Axl sounds brilliant", when in fact it should be a universal fact that he doesn't then maybe...just maybe he wouldn't feel like he gets a passing grade for his Mickey vocals. 

But no, you come in here and say "Axl sounds bad" people get their feelings hurt, some are hurt Bc they are in love with Axl, some get hurt Bc it happens at "their" show, some are just nuts. 

Fans shouldn't get mad at other fans, they should be mad at Axl. We all know that 2018 Axl/DC he's going to kick ass. We can't even get a decent SCOM or PC 

Why should a fan be mad at Axl when they are not mad at Axl? Your post makes no sense, if you're happy with the show you saw and happy with the vocals, it's not their problem, it's yours (as it clearly annoys you). Your problem is that you don't understand that their opinion is just as valid as yours. People are dumbasses for thinking Axl sounds good? It's not a fact that he doesn't sound good, it's your opinion. An opinion that most Guns N Roses fans do NOT agree with. Check out the reviews of the shows, they nearly all praise his voice. Fans shouldn't get mad at other fans? But you're mad at other fans for liking his voice, you think they are wrong and that they are dumbasses. Talk about a logic deficit!

21 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Slash re-recorded and erased some of Izzy's parts without even telling him about it. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Slash was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

The contract is not a slap in the face. It's a low, low move. Despicable to say the least. You do that cold shit with business partners. You dont ever do that with somebody that you grew up with and wrote songs with and are/were friends with and spent years on the road with. That tells you all you need to know about the whole thing, about how classy Axl was on that particular matter, doesnt it?

So its not really about taking sides. It's about seeing the apparently obvious reality that Axl and Slash were doing shitty moves.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy recorded nothing more than Scratch takes on Illusions, and then split" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Izzy refused to feature in any of the videos" story for one minute.

That's why i dont buy the "Slash couldnt even get Izzy to rehearse" story for a minute as well. It was actually Izzy who said that tried to make them learn some covers so they could play covers instead of solos but nobody wanted it mostly because they were all zombies back then.

It clearly is about taking sides for you because you could be putting the horse before the cart, but you don't care. You have arranged your statements to suit your already established point of view that Axl and Slash were in the wrong and Izzy was in the right.

How do you know that Axl's and Slash's treatment of Izzy wasn't in response to behaviour like not wanting to be part of videos, not putting in enough effort, etc? Wouldn't it be more justified if it was? 

5 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

Well... we've been telling you for months that Axl is sounding like shit on purpose. 

How can you explain that "YouTube doesnt make him justice, doesnt capture his powerful clean mickey voice", when you have performances like this. He went to rehearsals because HE wanted to play that song, so there you have why he sounded this awesome.

Same with Highway To Hell with Billy Joel. "But ACDC is easier for him to sing". Well, he killed it on "I feel good" too.

Please stop spreading this bullshit. Axl is sounding bad because he chooses to. He doesnt care about us.

Just IMAGINE this raspy mid voice on songs like November Rain.

Why would Axl need to rehearse songs he's sung thousands of times?

He sings the songs the way he wants to sing them it's nothing to do with rehearsing or turning up at soundcheck. 

He rehearses new songs because he doesn't know how to sing them, he needs to practice them, nothing to do with not giving a shit about the older guns material.