Guitar help, advice

[TheFormerSoul]

Ive been playing for about a good seven years on guitar, I know a tiny bit of theory and have taken lessons on and off throughout my life. Ive studied lead guitar (seriously) for about three years now and have come to a serious plateau.

Ive memorized all five pentatonic and blues positions as well as natural minor scale positions, Im pretty comfortable. However, Ive never ever been able to play them in any key fluidly, and find myself getting lost almost all the time on the neck. I also have been working on diatonic major scales for seven months and still havent been able to get those mastered either.

If anyone could give me some advice to help me progress and get over this serious stump I will greatly apreciate it. I really want to move on, learn the rest of the modes and be a great lead player.

dont want to be stuck in the blues box...

[chevelle]

www.musictheory.net

[gabrielsevenn7]

Ive been playing for about a good seven years on guitar, I know a tiny bit of theory and have taken lessons on and off throughout my life. Ive studied lead guitar (seriously) for about three years now and have come to a serious plateau.

Ive memorized all five pentatonic and blues positions as well as natural minor scale positions, Im pretty comfortable. However, Ive never ever been able to play them in any key fluidly, and find myself getting lost almost all the time on the neck. I also have been working on diatonic major scales for seven months and still havent been able to get those mastered either.

If anyone could give me some advice to help me progress and get over this serious stump I will greatly apreciate it. I really want to move on, learn the rest of the modes and be a great lead player.

dont want to be stuck in the blues box...

This is exactly why I don't memorize much of any of this stuff. You can know all the theory in the world and get stuck anyway. It is good to understand how it works but lead is about feel. If you don't have the feel it is tough to learn it. Most of all rock solos are in the blues box anyway. You will be in good company. Maybe you should learn some licks in the pentatonic scales. Play other people's solos and leads. You'll get a lot of ideas this way. Don't feel like you are being cheap either by copying. There isn't anything you can come up with that hasn't already been done.

Or if you are writing solos you can just noodle around like David Gilmour until you find parts you like and then splice them together. This is my prefered method. Doesn't work as well for imporvising with others, though.

Santana has been playing the same lead for 30 years now. Works for him

[TheFormerSoul]

Ive been playing for about a good seven years on guitar, I know a tiny bit of theory and have taken lessons on and off throughout my life. Ive studied lead guitar (seriously) for about three years now and have come to a serious plateau.

Ive memorized all five pentatonic and blues positions as well as natural minor scale positions, Im pretty comfortable. However, Ive never ever been able to play them in any key fluidly, and find myself getting lost almost all the time on the neck. I also have been working on diatonic major scales for seven months and still havent been able to get those mastered either.

If anyone could give me some advice to help me progress and get over this serious stump I will greatly apreciate it. I really want to move on, learn the rest of the modes and be a great lead player.

dont want to be stuck in the blues box...

This is exactly why I don't memorize much of any of this stuff. You can know all the theory in the world and get stuck anyway. It is good to understand how it works but lead is about feel. If you don't have the feel it is tough to learn it. Most of all rock solos are in the blues box anyway. You will be in good company. Maybe you should learn some licks in the pentatonic scales. Play other people's solos and leads. You'll get a lot of ideas this way. Don't feel like you are being cheap either by copying. There isn't anything you can come up with that hasn't already been done.

Or if you are writing solos you can just noodle around like David Gilmour until you find parts you like and then splice them together. This is my prefered method. Doesn't work as well for imporvising with others, though.

Santana has been playing the same lead for 30 years now. Works for him

Thanks lol, love the santana comment

[Bucketslash]

Let me give you the speedy "Better guitarist in 20 minutes or it's free" master class

It's about finding a shape and keeping to it.

For example, Every minor scale can be applied like this

D------------------1-3----

A-------1-3-4-----------

E-1-3-4------------------

This is an F minor scale. From there you just move the tonic(fret one on F). The where you start your other scale For example, A minor is

D--------------5-7-----

A-------5-7-8----------

E-5-7-8---------------

Your diatonic major is:

D------------0-2-3---

A-----0-1-3---------

E-1-3---------------

now, I haven't played a person's solo note for note in my life(gotten in a few arguments from people over covers). But what I can tell you is instead of playing things note for note, take your minor pentatonic, and throw on your favorite songs. Play with the recording like your there, not note for note, but your own thing. Don't get discouraged, because at the end it's only you there, and develop your own lead guitar style. It's never hurt me, and right now I'm a college lead guitarist in our jazz rock big band.

[TheFormerSoul]

Let me give you the speedy "Better guitarist in 20 minutes or it's free" master class

It's about finding a shape and keeping to it.

For example, Every minor scale can be applied like this

D------------------1-3----

A-------1-3-4-----------

E-1-3-4------------------

This is an F minor scale. From there you just move the tonic(fret one on F). The where you start your other scale For example, A minor is

D--------------5-7-----

A-------5-7-8----------

E-5-7-8---------------

Your diatonic major is:

D------------0-2-3---

A-----0-1-3---------

E-1-3---------------

now, I haven't played a person's solo note for note in my life(gotten in a few arguments from people over covers). But what I can tell you is instead of playing things note for note, take your minor pentatonic, and throw on your favorite songs. Play with the recording like your there, not note for note, but your own thing. Don't get discouraged, because at the end it's only you there, and develop your own lead guitar style. It's never hurt me, and right now I'm a college lead guitarist in our jazz rock big band.

Thanks for the tips! Sometimes for me finding a good backing track that isn't too boring helps me to just play the way I want. I always have respect for jazz musicians too.

[Bucketslash]

Thank you, but to be honest, I don't get too crazy jazz. I occasionally use mixolydian or phrygian, a little dorien(different scales), but generally I use blues.

I'll give you the other secret to soloing.

Blue Notes:

Blue notes are tones that add a bit of an inflection to your solos.

What they are, are passing tones.

What you have to do, is within your blues box

E--------------------------1-4--

B--------------------1-4--------

G---------------1-3-------------

D----------1-3------------------

A-----1-3-----------------------

E-1-4---------------------------

Add in the fret right before them, always in passing to the next note in the scale

This sounds confusing, but lets see this visually

E-----------------------------------1-3-4-

B----------------------------1-2-4--------

G---------------------1-2-3--------------

D--------------1-2-3---------------------

A-------1-2-3----------------------------

E-1-3-4----------------------------------

What this means is, when traveling up your scale, adding these extra 2's and 3's adds a little extra inflection. With double picking and extreme distortion, you have EVH style shred. The thing is, you do NOT pause on these extra notes. They just sound off because their not solid notes to the scale, instead passing tones.

Next we need to expand your box. From your box, you can add on.....

E-4-6-------------------------

B-----4-6---------------------

G---------3-5-----------------

D--------------3-6------------

A-------------------3-6-------

E------------------------4-6--

Now the complex masterclass stuff I do....

Simple stuff-Feel free to bend along the E G and B. Their comfortable places for very strong bends, particularly on 6 in E and 5 on G

Try Double stop riffs. Thats when you take two notes on the box, almost always right next to eachother.

E--4--6------------------------------------6--4----

B--4--6---4---6--1------------------------4--6---

G----------3---5--1---1---3----------------------

D----------------------1---3-1-3-----------------

A-----------------------------1-3-3---1-----------

E----------------------------------4---1-----------

Etc. Also Try passing tones on your new box extension.

[gabrielsevenn7]

BucketSlash is right on.

It is easy to get overwhelmed. Maybe not where you wanted to go, but understand that you only sound like yourself. You can never sound like anyone else so don't be discouraged if you can't play such and such solo or song exactly as it was recorded.

This is what I hate about playing guitar:

People who have never played a note in their lives judge your ability based upon how you play other people's songs. Or if you can play by "ear." Can you play any song instantly just by hearing it once? "My nephew can." Or, "I knew a guy who could."

No. I can't. Sorry. It probably took them years to do so. At the least, hours upon hours upon hours in short amount of time. You do have to teach your fingers to move, you know. Then you have to teach your ear to hear. Then you have to teach your fingers and your ear to work together to translate the sound you hear into the sound you play and where to put your fingers on the fretboard in order to do so accurately.

At the very least they are playing the cheap version of songs. That is easy to do and can fool a lot of untrained ears.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody, but aren't modes just another type of plug and play like major and minor (these are modes themselves, are they not?) You just remeber the scale for Phrygian, for example, and where the root is and plug in on the fretboard based upon which key you are in. No?

Edited September 4, 2009 by gabrielsevenn7

[AxlisOld]

Thank you, but to be honest, I don't get too crazy jazz. I occasionally use mixolydian or phrygian, a little dorien(different scales), but generally I use blues.

I'll give you the other secret to soloing.

Blue Notes:

Blue notes are tones that add a bit of an inflection to your solos.

What they are, are passing tones.

What you have to do, is within your blues box

E--------------------------1-4--

B--------------------1-4--------

G---------------1-3-------------

D----------1-3------------------

A-----1-3-----------------------

E-1-4---------------------------

Add in the fret right before them, always in passing to the next note in the scale

This sounds confusing, but lets see this visually

E-----------------------------------1-3-4-

B----------------------------1-2-4--------

G---------------------1-2-3--------------

D--------------1-2-3---------------------

A-------1-2-3----------------------------

E-1-3-4----------------------------------

What this means is, when traveling up your scale, adding these extra 2's and 3's adds a little extra inflection. With double picking and extreme distortion, you have EVH style shred. The thing is, you do NOT pause on these extra notes. They just sound off because their not solid notes to the scale, instead passing tones.

Next we need to expand your box. From your box, you can add on.....

E-4-6-------------------------

B-----4-6---------------------

G---------3-5-----------------

D--------------3-6------------

A-------------------3-6-------

E------------------------4-6--

Now the complex masterclass stuff I do....

Simple stuff-Feel free to bend along the E G and B. Their comfortable places for very strong bends, particularly on 6 in E and 5 on G

Try Double stop riffs. Thats when you take two notes on the box, almost always right next to eachother.

E--4--6------------------------------------6--4----

B--4--6---4---6--1------------------------4--6---

G----------3---5--1---1---3----------------------

D----------------------1---3-1-3-----------------

A-----------------------------1-3-3---1-----------

E----------------------------------4---1-----------

Etc. Also Try passing tones on your new box extension.

Oh shit...you've blown open my entire knowledge of music theory. The key is to master and vary that pattern to where you can be versatile with it. Also, slap enough distortion on it to where people have no idea what is going on. Joe Satriani said it best, "Some poeple use a large vocabulary to say what they need to say...oher people get their point across by using little words."

ie...BB King vs. Yngwie Malmstein

[Bucketslash]

BucketSlash is right on.

It is easy to get overwhelmed. Maybe not where you wanted to go, but understand that you only sound like yourself. You can never sound like anyone else so don't be discouraged if you can't play such and such solo or song exactly as it was recorded.

This is what I hate about playing guitar:

People who have never played a note in their lives judge your ability based upon how you play other people's songs. Or if you can play by "ear." Can you play any song instantly just by hearing it once? "My nephew can." Or, "I knew a guy who could."

No. I can't. Sorry. It probably took them years to do so. At the least, hours upon hours upon hours in short amount of time. You do have to teach your fingers to move, you know. Then you have to teach your ear to hear. Then you have to teach your fingers and your ear to work together to translate the sound you hear into the sound you play and where to put your fingers on the fretboard in order to do so accurately.

At the very least they are playing the cheap version of songs. That is easy to do and can fool a lot of untrained ears.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody, but aren't modes just another type of plug and play like major and minor (these are modes themselves, are they not?) You just remeber the scale for Phrygian, for example, and where the root is and plug in on the fretboard based upon which key you are in. No?

Modes are like...sleeping with a foreign version of your girlfriend. You use them right, it's new, exotic, and comes with new multicultural kinkiness. You can use them like you would a normal scale( subbing them in on a scale with the same key), and it's a smooth, easy transition that the audiance will only feel a hint of flavor for.

However, when you want to use modes to go crazy, you use them in the place of a major or minor scale(don't act so suprised. Bluesmen minor solo over major progression all the time)

Now I won't tab all this out, but I'll give the basics

To get each mode, you take a major scale and lower these notes(not frets, but notes, for example, C being 1, d being 2, e being 3, etc)

Lydian-Raise 4(use this over a major progression.)

Mixolydian-Lower 7(a cheaper dorian, used mainly over major with the lowered 7 for a blues inflection)

Dorian-Lower 3 and 7(The extended blues scale. Not really major because of the lowered 3 but not really minor because of the 6)

Aeolian-Lower 3,6,7(your minor scale)

Phrygian-Lower 2,3,6,and 7 (really funky one. I love experimenting with it. Hear it on the stones classic "Time Waits for no one" on the solos)

Locrian- Barely used anymore due to popular opinion of it being a-tonal. I throw it in, but it's really an expert's only scale, as it plain out sounds wrong. Use it minor only. Lower 2,3,5,6, and 7.

[TheFormerSoul]

BucketSlash is right on.

It is easy to get overwhelmed. Maybe not where you wanted to go, but understand that you only sound like yourself. You can never sound like anyone else so don't be discouraged if you can't play such and such solo or song exactly as it was recorded.

This is what I hate about playing guitar:

People who have never played a note in their lives judge your ability based upon how you play other people's songs. Or if you can play by "ear." Can you play any song instantly just by hearing it once? "My nephew can." Or, "I knew a guy who could."

No. I can't. Sorry. It probably took them years to do so. At the least, hours upon hours upon hours in short amount of time. You do have to teach your fingers to move, you know. Then you have to teach your ear to hear. Then you have to teach your fingers and your ear to work together to translate the sound you hear into the sound you play and where to put your fingers on the fretboard in order to do so accurately.

At the very least they are playing the cheap version of songs. That is easy to do and can fool a lot of untrained ears.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody, but aren't modes just another type of plug and play like major and minor (these are modes themselves, are they not?) You just remeber the scale for Phrygian, for example, and where the root is and plug in on the fretboard based upon which key you are in. No?

Modes are like...sleeping with a foreign version of your girlfriend. You use them right, it's new, exotic, and comes with new multicultural kinkiness. You can use them like you would a normal scale( subbing them in on a scale with the same key), and it's a smooth, easy transition that the audiance will only feel a hint of flavor for.

However, when you want to use modes to go crazy, you use them in the place of a major or minor scale(don't act so suprised. Bluesmen minor solo over major progression all the time)

Now I won't tab all this out, but I'll give the basics

To get each mode, you take a major scale and lower these notes(not frets, but notes, for example, C being 1, d being 2, e being 3, etc)

Lydian-Raise 4(use this over a major progression.)

Mixolydian-Lower 7(a cheaper dorian, used mainly over major with the lowered 7 for a blues inflection)

Dorian-Lower 3 and 7(The extended blues scale. Not really major because of the lowered 3 but not really minor because of the 6)

Aeolian-Lower 3,6,7(your minor scale)

Phrygian-Lower 2,3,6,and 7 (really funky one. I love experimenting with it. Hear it on the stones classic "Time Waits for no one" on the solos)

Locrian- Barely used anymore due to popular opinion of it being a-tonal. I throw it in, but it's really an expert's only scale, as it plain out sounds wrong. Use it minor only. Lower 2,3,5,6, and 7.

It seems that although learning scales like this in themselves are not too difficult, using them the right way and keeping an ear out for specific chord changes

and hitting the right notes will take time to master. The personalities of each scale fits certain "moments" in songs. Also learning what chords these scales can be played over.

Its definatly a journey, but im excited as much as I am frustrated. Music is my only real passion, as a career I don't know if I can find somthing that can get me enough money to live on.

[dann]

If you know your pentatonic scales in all 5 positions, you really know every major scale.

I think I had picked this up from Dave Mustaine, but I'm sure it's common knowledge. But it you play the blues scales in a I-IV-V pattern, it will give you all the notes in a Major scale. Unfortunately, I was told this after years of memorizing all the modes.

And just for personal style/preference, I solo to everything in the Lydian mode. I used to be very partial to aeolian, but I found Lydian gives me some interesting tones and dissonance.

[Bucketslash]

acutally minor

the pentatonic box is a minor scale as people play it.

I developed the "major" pentatonic scale based on a randy rhoads excercise. it's great for pop licks and useful when i get called on for country(i hate country though)

[gabrielsevenn7]

BucketSlash is right on.

It is easy to get overwhelmed. Maybe not where you wanted to go, but understand that you only sound like yourself. You can never sound like anyone else so don't be discouraged if you can't play such and such solo or song exactly as it was recorded.

This is what I hate about playing guitar:

People who have never played a note in their lives judge your ability based upon how you play other people's songs. Or if you can play by "ear." Can you play any song instantly just by hearing it once? "My nephew can." Or, "I knew a guy who could."

No. I can't. Sorry. It probably took them years to do so. At the least, hours upon hours upon hours in short amount of time. You do have to teach your fingers to move, you know. Then you have to teach your ear to hear. Then you have to teach your fingers and your ear to work together to translate the sound you hear into the sound you play and where to put your fingers on the fretboard in order to do so accurately.

At the very least they are playing the cheap version of songs. That is easy to do and can fool a lot of untrained ears.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anybody, but aren't modes just another type of plug and play like major and minor (these are modes themselves, are they not?) You just remeber the scale for Phrygian, for example, and where the root is and plug in on the fretboard based upon which key you are in. No?

Modes are like...sleeping with a foreign version of your girlfriend. You use them right, it's new, exotic, and comes with new multicultural kinkiness. You can use them like you would a normal scale( subbing them in on a scale with the same key), and it's a smooth, easy transition that the audiance will only feel a hint of flavor for.

However, when you want to use modes to go crazy, you use them in the place of a major or minor scale(don't act so suprised. Bluesmen minor solo over major progression all the time)

Now I won't tab all this out, but I'll give the basics

To get each mode, you take a major scale and lower these notes(not frets, but notes, for example, C being 1, d being 2, e being 3, etc)

Lydian-Raise 4(use this over a major progression.)

Mixolydian-Lower 7(a cheaper dorian, used mainly over major with the lowered 7 for a blues inflection)

Dorian-Lower 3 and 7(The extended blues scale. Not really major because of the lowered 3 but not really minor because of the 6)

Aeolian-Lower 3,6,7(your minor scale)

Phrygian-Lower 2,3,6,and 7 (really funky one. I love experimenting with it. Hear it on the stones classic "Time Waits for no one" on the solos)

Locrian- Barely used anymore due to popular opinion of it being a-tonal. I throw it in, but it's really an expert's only scale, as it plain out sounds wrong. Use it minor only. Lower 2,3,5,6, and 7.

Thanks for the help.

[dann]

acutally minor

the pentatonic box is a minor scale as people play it.

I developed the "major" pentatonic scale based on a randy rhoads excercise. it's great for pop licks and useful when i get called on for country(i hate country though)

I always feel pentatonics sound so hackey as a minor. I don't know, I just don't think I can get anything new sounding out of it.