Axl and Mass Murderers

[rabia]

My only thoughts about this are the Manson shirt. For a man that tried to claim he wasn't a racist and pointed a finger at Hetfield for being one was walking around with the shirt of a proud racist.

Axl described Charles Manson as a pop culture cartoon, a mocking reference not a praising one. When did he ever say anything remotely seeming like an endorsement of Manson's actions or philosophy?

If wearing a shirt gives us a clue into the deep recesses of his psyche then he must also be a lesbian, Janice Joplin and a skeleton.

And he used the Manson song at the end of the Spaghetti Incident, why?

Because he thought it was interesting that there was a part of Manson that had such little attention drawn to it before.

Historians and psychological experts often seek out obscure facts about socially destructive people to shed light on the phenomenon. I guess they must all be two steps away from launching into a psychopath lifestyle themselves, right?

For one, they didn't credit the song to him was because they DIDN'T want to draw attention to it. So I don't buy that for a second.

Could it be that he was just a walking contradiction?

He talked about the song in an interview when GN'R were one of the, if not the, biggest band in the world plus everybody reviewing the album was guaranteed to comment on the song. That's attention enough. The profits from the song went to victims of violence, not Manson himself.

Was GN'R advocating mass murder of nagging girlfriends with Used to Love Her? See how idiotic things get when you try to read dark agendas into each song choice.

[Rustycage]

My only thoughts about this are the Manson shirt. For a man that tried to claim he wasn't a racist and pointed a finger at Hetfield for being one was walking around with the shirt of a proud racist.

Axl described Charles Manson as a pop culture cartoon, a mocking reference not a praising one. When did he ever say anything remotely seeming like an endorsement of Manson's actions or philosophy?

If wearing a shirt gives us a clue into the deep recesses of his psyche then he must also be a lesbian, Janice Joplin and a skeleton.

And he used the Manson song at the end of the Spaghetti Incident, why?

Because he thought it was interesting that there was a part of Manson that had such little attention drawn to it before.

Historians and psychological experts often seek out obscure facts about socially destructive people to shed light on the phenomenon. I guess they must all be two steps away from launching into a psychopath lifestyle themselves, right?

For one, they didn't credit the song to him was because they DIDN'T want to draw attention to it. So I don't buy that for a second.

Could it be that he was just a walking contradiction?

He talked about the song in an interview when GN'R were one of the, if not the, biggest band in the world plus everybody reviewing the album was guaranteed to comment on the song. That's attention enough. The profits from the song went to victims of violence, not Manson himself.

Was GN'R advocating mass murder of nagging girlfriends with Used to Love Her? See how idiotic things get when you try to read dark agendas into each song choice.

I didn't say he was advocating anything. My point is that it was incredibly ironic and made him look stupid.

[rabia]

My only thoughts about this are the Manson shirt. For a man that tried to claim he wasn't a racist and pointed a finger at Hetfield for being one was walking around with the shirt of a proud racist.

Axl described Charles Manson as a pop culture cartoon, a mocking reference not a praising one. When did he ever say anything remotely seeming like an endorsement of Manson's actions or philosophy?

If wearing a shirt gives us a clue into the deep recesses of his psyche then he must also be a lesbian, Janice Joplin and a skeleton.

And he used the Manson song at the end of the Spaghetti Incident, why?

Because he thought it was interesting that there was a part of Manson that had such little attention drawn to it before.

Historians and psychological experts often seek out obscure facts about socially destructive people to shed light on the phenomenon. I guess they must all be two steps away from launching into a psychopath lifestyle themselves, right?

For one, they didn't credit the song to him was because they DIDN'T want to draw attention to it. So I don't buy that for a second.

Could it be that he was just a walking contradiction?

He talked about the song in an interview when GN'R were one of the, if not the, biggest band in the world plus everybody reviewing the album was guaranteed to comment on the song. That's attention enough. The profits from the song went to victims of violence, not Manson himself.

Was GN'R advocating mass murder of nagging girlfriends with Used to Love Her? See how idiotic things get when you try to read dark agendas into each song choice.

I didn't say he was advocating anything. My point is that it was incredibly ironic and made him look stupid.

Whats so ironic or stupid when he did it with a mocking intent? Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded. Does that make it ironic and stupid?

[Rustycage]

Whats so ironic or stupid when he did it with a mocking intent? Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded. Does that make it ironic and stupid?

So the song with no credit had mocking intent, huh? Nope, not buying it.

Duff is a former gunner and has nothing to do with the topic.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Rustycage

[rabia]

Whats so ironic or stupid when he did it with a mocking intent? Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded. Does that make it ironic and stupid?

So the song with no credit had mocking intent, huh? Nope, not buying it.

Duff is a former gunner and has nothing to do with the topic.

Oh now suddenly you dont want to talk about Duff. Figures since you cant answer my point.

He wore the shirt with mocking intent- as I said, he called the guy on the shirt a pop culture CARTOON- a word that stands in for a joke.

The song with no credit was guaranteed to get more attention through the no credit- the idea was to bring attention to a little known part of the Manson history. The fact that you're discussing this right now and the internet search results for the song almost always mention GN'R prove that it certainly worked.

[Rustycage]

Whats so ironic or stupid when he did it with a mocking intent? Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded. Does that make it ironic and stupid?

So the song with no credit had mocking intent, huh? Nope, not buying it.

Duff is a former gunner and has nothing to do with the topic.

Oh now suddenly you dont want to talk about Duff. Figures since you cant answer my point.

He wore the shirt with mocking intent- as I said, he called the guy on the shirt a pop culture CARTOON- a word that stands in for a joke.

The song with no credit was guaranteed to get more attention through the no credit- the idea was to bring attention to a little known part of the Manson history. The fact that you're discussing this right now and the internet search results for the song almost always mention GN'R prove that it certainly worked.

I don't care to answer your point about Duff because it's a crutch around here. When they or you right here can't discuss the main point directly, ya bring out past member examples as if that matters to the original point. Why would it even matter?

Axl didn't need to shine light on Manson. Anyone with the tiniest bit of American history knowledge know about him and the media storm that followed him. Anyone alive at the time knew how much of a circus it was.

When you release a song by him, thank him in it but don't credit him on the album, how is THAT trying to bring attention to it when they even said they didn't want attention brought to it? Are you intentionally trying to be obtuse?

[rabia]

Whats so ironic or stupid when he did it with a mocking intent? Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded. Does that make it ironic and stupid?

So the song with no credit had mocking intent, huh? Nope, not buying it.

Duff is a former gunner and has nothing to do with the topic.

Oh now suddenly you dont want to talk about Duff. Figures since you cant answer my point.

He wore the shirt with mocking intent- as I said, he called the guy on the shirt a pop culture CARTOON- a word that stands in for a joke.

The song with no credit was guaranteed to get more attention through the no credit- the idea was to bring attention to a little known part of the Manson history. The fact that you're discussing this right now and the internet search results for the song almost always mention GN'R prove that it certainly worked.

I don't care to answer your point about Duff because it's a crutch around here. When they or you right here can't discuss the main point directly, ya bring out past member examples as if that matters to the original point. Why would it even matter?

Axl didn't need to shine light on Manson. Anyone with the tiniest bit of American history knowledge know about him and the media storm that followed him. Anyone alive at the time knew how much of a circus it was.

When you release a song by him, thank him in it but don't credit him on the album, how is THAT trying to bring attention to it when they even said they didn't want attention brought to it? Are you intentionally trying to be obtuse?

Actually the sad truth is that you CANT answer my point about Loaded, that's why you're using excuses as your crutch. I demolished your original point several posts ago and since then you've been reduced to repeating yourself over and over.

Axl didnt try to shine the light on Manson's entire life- he didnt claim to either. He simply shed light on the aspect of him that people didnt know much about- that song. As Gilby Clarke said, he was shocked when he discovered that song was from Manson, many people were guaranteed to have the same reaction thus bringing attention to a little known fact ie Axl's original intent. As I said, internet searches on the song bring up the GN'R connection because on its own, its little known.

When they added the song but didnt credit it, that guaranteed MORE discussion of the song and more notice of it which is borne out by the controversy that followed around the song. Where did they "thank" Manson?

Edited June 12, 2012 by rabia

[Rustycage]

Um, anyone familiar with Manson and why he attacked an ex-Beach Boys house knew he was a musician anot not a bad one either.

Loaded has nothing to do with this topic. You thinking loaded couldn't be a reference to anything else is not even worth discussing. And it's the wrong place for it anyways. Don't try to bait me.

But again, to make racist and bigot lyrics, say you aren't a racist, point fingers at those that you think are and then walk around in a Manson shirt makes you look stupid. Then covering his song, thanking him and not giving any credit for it in the album or even listing it isn't cryptic. It's just funny.

He thanked him at the end. Have you even heard the song?

Edited June 12, 2012 by Rustycage

[rabia]

Um, anyone familiar with Manson and why he attacked an ex-Beach Boys house knew he was a musician anot not a bad one either.

Loaded has nothing to do with this topic. You thinking loaded couldn't be a reference to anything else is not even worth discussing. And it's the wrong place for it anyways. Don't try to bait me.

But again, to make racist and bigot lyrics, say you aren't a racist, point fingers at those that you think are and then walk around in a Manson shirt makes you look stupid. Then covering his song, thanking him and not giving any credit for it in the album or even listing it isn't cryptic. It's just funny.

People knowing that Manson was a musician does not mean there was also mass awareness about that song - Gilby's words pretty much make a mockery of any such claims.

You cant answer the Loaded point so you avoid it, its no mystery. Other meanings to the word Loaded dont change the fact that the intoxication reference is a pretty big association with the word. So by your own logic, that was mighty "ironic" and "stupid" of Duff. Having your pancreas explode, talk about it in several interviews and then name your band that Dodge away, dodge away.

The lyrics to OIAM were problematic but the protagonist himself says that "its been such a long time since I knew right from wrong"- hardly an attempt to pass himself off as somebody whose words should be embraced. GN'R were advocating murdering women with Used to Love Her, right?

If people misinterpreted the intent of the shirt, it was their issue. Axl made his views clear with the "cartoon" comment.

I heard the song several times but never heard Axl thank Manson. I thought he said thanks Jack to a sound engineer.But now that I read the lyrics, there's the "credit" to the original writer that you were so concerned about.

Edited June 12, 2012 by rabia

[Rustycage]

I answered after I noticed you edited it in.

Have you not heard the song, he thanks him at the very end.

[Rustycage]

The lyrics to OIAM were problematic but the protagonist himself says that "its been such a long time since I knew right from wrong"- hardly an attempt to pass himself off as somebody whose words should be embraced. GN'R were advocating murdering women with Used to Love Her, right?

Where did I say he ever advocated anything? Are you just reading the first few words of my post and then adding your own ideas to it? Again, my only intention for the comment is it made him look stupid. It still does. If he was doing it to be intentionally ironic then so be it.

I heard the song several times but never heard Axl thank Manson. I thought he said thanks Jack to a sound engineer.But now that I read the lyrics, there's the "credit" to the original writer that you were so concerned about.

Thanks Chaz and then he says Jack.

That's not a song writing credit. I don't think you even know this band completely, sorry. It was known by a lot that he thanks him at the end. Manson brags about it.

[rabia]

I answered after I noticed you edited it in.

Have you not heard the song, he thanks him at the very end.

Yeah I thought he said thanks Jack. I thought Jack must be some sound guy, there are a lot of muttered words at the start or end of GNR songs and sometimes they're hard to make out.

I could never make out one line in Dont Cry and a friend of mine told me that it goes "Dont you cry tonight i still love you baby, dont you cry tonight there's a helicopter above you" and I thought it plausible because there's a helicopter in the video.

[Rustycage]

I answered after I noticed you edited it in.

Have you not heard the song, he thanks him at the very end.

Yeah I thought he said thanks Jack. I thought Jack must be some sound guy, there are a lot of muttered words at the start or end of GNR songs and sometimes they're hard to make out.

I could never make out one line in Dont Cry and a friend of mine told me that it goes "Dont you cry tonight i still love you baby, dont you cry tonight there's a helicopter above you" and I thought it plausible because there's a helicopter in the video.

OK, so what is he thanking him for? This is different than giving writing credit as they wanted to hide the writer of the song.

Manson's whole popular image has stemmed from his point that this system created him. Much like family life or celebrity could create a monster. THAT is what I feel the symbolism of shirt is about. Mocking him and then thanking him for the song seems a little backwards, doesn't it?

[rabia]

The lyrics to OIAM were problematic but the protagonist himself says that "its been such a long time since I knew right from wrong"- hardly an attempt to pass himself off as somebody whose words should be embraced. GN'R were advocating murdering women with Used to Love Her, right?

Where did I say he ever advocated anything? Are you just reading the first few words of my post and then adding your own ideas to it? Again, my only intention for the comment is it made him look stupid. It still does. If he was doing it to be intentionally ironic then so be it.

I heard the song several times but never heard Axl thank Manson. I thought he said thanks Jack to a sound engineer.But now that I read the lyrics, there's the "credit" to the original writer that you were so concerned about.

Thanks Chaz and then he says Jack.

That's not a song writing credit. I don't think you even know this band completely, sorry. It was known by a lot that he thanks him at the end. Manson brags about it.

I'm reading your whole posts and sadly you're avoiding big chunks of mine because you cant answer them. And no, not being able to pick up a word in a GN'R song doesnt in any way, shape or form mean that I "dont know this band completely"- the debate about whether its said woman or sad woman in Patience goes on among the knowlegable members of this site.

If irony flies over certain people's heads then perhaps they're the ones who are stupid. So your view is that Duff's decision to call his band Loaded was very ironic and stupid? That's the only conclusion going by your own logic.

Manson's bragging about it doesnt change the views that Axl expressed on Manson just like some entrenched misogynist's embracing Used to Love Her as his theme song wont implicate GN'R in his sick minded world view.

I answered after I noticed you edited it in.

Have you not heard the song, he thanks him at the very end.

Yeah I thought he said thanks Jack. I thought Jack must be some sound guy, there are a lot of muttered words at the start or end of GNR songs and sometimes they're hard to make out.

I could never make out one line in Dont Cry and a friend of mine told me that it goes "Dont you cry tonight i still love you baby, dont you cry tonight there's a helicopter above you" and I thought it plausible because there's a helicopter in the video.

OK, so what is he thanking him for? This is different than giving writing credit as they wanted to hide the writer of the song.

Manson's whole popular image has stemmed from his point that this system created him. Much like family life or celebrity could create a monster. THAT is what I feel the symbolism of shirt is about. Mocking him and then thanking him for the song seems a little backwards, doesn't it?

Thanking him for the song does not translate into thanking him for his entire legacy, its simply about the song. As Axl said in an interview, he was drawn to the lyrics (probably a Stephanie Seymour thing).

[Rustycage]

Again, I'm cutting out Duff references because either way, it doesn't get to the main point. Is finger pointing your normal response to everything?

I've answered the things you keep repeating but you have failed to answer me. If Axl were truly mocking him, why would he turn around and use a Manson song and thank him for it but at the same time not even list it?

The symbolism of it is that Manson was a monster cooked up in our own kitchen. Much like Axl felt he was. Sure, he was a cartoon but that excuse doesn't mix with his actions later.

Thanking him for the song does not translate into thanking him for his entire legacy, its simply about the song. As Axl said in an interview, he was drawn to the lyrics (probably a Stephanie Seymour thing).

He owns the copyright. Permission had to be granted to release it. Again, read this: I AM NOT SAYING HE ADVOCATES HIS LEGACY. My point is he was a contradictory person and that shirt made him look dumb.

Any more posting on this issue would just be me repeating myself....again.

Moving on....

Edited June 12, 2012 by Rustycage

[rabia]

Again, I'm cutting out Duff references because either way, it doesn't get to the main point. Is finger pointing your normal response to everything?

I've answered the things you keep repeating but you have failed to answer me. If Axl were truly mocking him, why would he turn around and use a Manson song and thank him for it but at the same time not even list it?

The symbolism of it is that Manson was a monster cooked up in our own kitchen. Much like Axl felt he was. Sure, he was a cartoon but that excuse doesn't mix with his actions later.

Thanking him for the song does not translate into thanking him for his entire legacy, its simply about the song. As Axl said in an interview, he was drawn to the lyrics (probably a Stephanie Seymour thing).

He owns the copyright. Permission had to be granted to release it. Again, read this: I AM NOT SAYING HE ADVOCATES HIS LEGACY. My point is he was a contradictory person and that shirt made him look dumb.

Any more posting on this issue would just be me repeating myself....again.

Moving on....

I'm asking you to apply the same logic to Duff that you apply to Axl. That's not "finger-pointing", that's common sense. The fact that you're on the defensive about this is not my problem. So Duff's a contradictory, ironic person too?

I've answered you repeatedly but you pretend not to notice. Using Manson's song when you think the lyrics are relevant to your situation with your ex-girlfriend does NOT equate any kind of approval for Manson's ideology. Not listing it brought the song more attention - another of Axl's stated goals. None of this clashes in any way with thinking of Manson himself as a cartoon. If you are deeply resentful of an actor's political views, does that mean you cant like his/her acting?

There's no need to give an "excuse"- Axl's position was clear through the cartoon comment. You dont get to decide what "symbolism" the image had for Axl - he described his perception of Manson in his own words.

Edited June 12, 2012 by rabia

[Rustycage]

Wearing the shirt and using his song that including thanking him made him look like a dumb hypocrite.

You buy the cookie cutter response. Good for ya.

Axl is such an honest person. There. Happy? Moving on....

[kanudo19]

hey all,

we remember Axls Manson t-shirt during the Illusions tour.

his mygnr name was Dexter.

what do you think this fascination with serial killers is about?

does our man have hidden urges or what?

I don't know,he probably likes raw human beings who just don't give a fuck.what d' ya think?

dont forget zodiac

[rabia]

Wearing the shirt and using his song that including thanking him made him look like a dumb hypocrite.

You buy the cookie cutter response. Good for ya.

Axl is such an honest person. There. Happy? Moving on....

No more a "dumb hypocrite" than Duff preaching the horrors of an excessive lifestyle while calling his band Loaded?

If people dont understand a person's intention, any act can be distorted into what its not. You cant stop living your life because of that. There's nothing cookie cutter about Axl and that's part of the trouble that keeps him ticking.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

[Rustycage]

Sure whatever. Are you satisfied now?

Duff has a band Loaded so Axl looks cool in his Manson shirt. Harmony at least.

[rabia]

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

Loaded has other meanings too but the intoxication reference is a pretty well known one. If the intent was just to carry on the gun theme, he could have chosen better.

[Rustycage]

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

Loaded has other meanings too but the intoxication reference is a pretty well known one. If the intent was just to carry on the gun theme, he could have chosen better.

When he writes a new song about getting drunk, then the comparison is valid.

[arnold layne]

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

Loaded has other meanings too but the intoxication reference is a pretty well known one. If the intent was just to carry on the gun theme, he could have chosen better.

We get it man. You don't like Duff. That's cool.

[rabia]

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

Loaded has other meanings too but the intoxication reference is a pretty well known one. If the intent was just to carry on the gun theme, he could have chosen better.

When he writes a new song about getting drunk, then the comparison is valid.

No the comparison is valid now. One song is not as important as the name of one's band. Obviously.

Duff has cleaned up his act, yet his band's name is Loaded.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought the Loaded name was part of the whole gun theme (Guns N' Roses, Velvet Revolver, etc). If that is incorrect, could somebody please provide a link to Duff explaining the origin of the name.

As for Manson, he was responsible for multiple murders. You don't have to be the one pulling the trigger or holding the knife to be a murderer, that's why Manson was found guilty of murder.

Loaded has other meanings too but the intoxication reference is a pretty well known one. If the intent was just to carry on the gun theme, he could have chosen better.

We get it man. You don't like Duff. That's cool.

I said nothing that suggests that. I do like Duff and his choice of the name might have been ironic too, kind of poking fun at the past. I just expected Rusty Cage to apply the same logic to him as he did to Axl.