The Mods, The Rockers, The TeddyBoys

[Vincent Vega]

What exactly were the Mods and the TeddyBoys, what really separated them from Rockers, and why was there such a rivalry?

Also have heard the Mod movement led to Punk Rock....?

[Guest Len B'stard]

Mods were modernists, into motown, rhythm n blues, sharp suits, ivy league clothes, rockers were into the slightly older shit, rock n roll and leather jackets and gene vincent elvis etc. drove proper motorbikes instead of vespas. The rivalry comes from just being opposites, rockers thought mods were soft lads and fairies and mods thought rockers were just thick.

Teddy boys were just rock n rollers into the classic edwardian suit look, made a comeback in the 70s and hated punks.

The punk/mod parrallel is hugely overstated

Although the idea was that they were both more modern forward thinking types, whether they were or not is somethin else, also they both kinda were receptive to the black music ofctheir time, motown for mods and reggae for punks. Flimsy.

[dalsh327]

Mods were modernists, into motown, rhythm n blues, sharp suits, ivy league clothes, rockers were into the slightly older shit, rock n roll and leather jackets and gene vincent elvis etc. drove proper motorbikes instead of vespas. The rivalry comes from just being opposites, rockers thought mods were soft lads and fairies and mods thought rockers were just thick.

Teddy boys were just rock n rollers into the classic edwardian suit look, made a comeback in the 70s and hated punks.

The punk/mod parrallel is hugely overstated

Although the idea was that they were both more modern forward thinking types, whether they were or not is somethin else, also they both kinda were receptive to the black music ofctheir time, motown for mods and reggae for punks. Flimsy.

Was it a regional thing, or all over the country? Rock history in England was def. different than in America.

Mods and rockers prob. had rivalries that had to do with girls, too. I guess the girls had to look a certain way if they were going to roll with a specific clique.

Wonder where the Indians and Greeks fit in to all of that at the time.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Mods were modernists, into motown, rhythm n blues, sharp suits, ivy league clothes, rockers were into the slightly older shit, rock n roll and leather jackets and gene vincent elvis etc. drove proper motorbikes instead of vespas. The rivalry comes from just being opposites, rockers thought mods were soft lads and fairies and mods thought rockers were just thick.

Teddy boys were just rock n rollers into the classic edwardian suit look, made a comeback in the 70s and hated punks.

The punk/mod parrallel is hugely overstated

Although the idea was that they were both more modern forward thinking types, whether they were or not is somethin else, also they both kinda were receptive to the black music ofctheir time, motown for mods and reggae for punks. Flimsy.

Was it a regional thing, or all over the country? Rock history in England was def. different than in America.

Mods and rockers prob. had rivalries that had to do with girls, too. I guess the girls had to look a certain way if they were going to roll with a specific clique.

Wonder where the Indians and Greeks fit in to all of that at the time.

It was a lot more overstated in the press, there weren't but a handful of major rumbles but see when something is publicised like that all the people that get into it thinking that thats what its all about.

Indians and greeks you mean as in the ethnic communities?

The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, thats mod dress but the truth is the bands couldn't really give a fuck i mean, The Who are sung up as some huge mod band but that was management, i mean they loved rock n roll, they came up on it, the bands just played everything with no predudice, it's pretty much the kids that were all big on this mods vs rockers crap.

Edited August 15, 2012 by sugaraylen

[dalsh327]

Mods were modernists, into motown, rhythm n blues, sharp suits, ivy league clothes, rockers were into the slightly older shit, rock n roll and leather jackets and gene vincent elvis etc. drove proper motorbikes instead of vespas. The rivalry comes from just being opposites, rockers thought mods were soft lads and fairies and mods thought rockers were just thick.

Teddy boys were just rock n rollers into the classic edwardian suit look, made a comeback in the 70s and hated punks.

The punk/mod parrallel is hugely overstated

Although the idea was that they were both more modern forward thinking types, whether they were or not is somethin else, also they both kinda were receptive to the black music ofctheir time, motown for mods and reggae for punks. Flimsy.

Was it a regional thing, or all over the country? Rock history in England was def. different than in America.

Mods and rockers prob. had rivalries that had to do with girls, too. I guess the girls had to look a certain way if they were going to roll with a specific clique.

Wonder where the Indians and Greeks fit in to all of that at the time.

It was a lot more overstated in the press, there weren't but a handful of major rumbles but see when something is publicised like that all the people that get into it thinking that thats what its all about.

Indians and greeks you mean as in the ethnic communities?

The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, thats mod dress but the truth is the bands couldn't really give a fuck i mean, The Who are sung up as some huge mod band but that was management, i mean they loved rock n roll, they came up on it, the bands just played everything with no predudice, it's pretty much the kids that were all big on this mods vs rockers crap.

It seemed like The Who were more of the Mod house band in the beginning, once they made it big in America, went to a whole other level.

Yes, the ethnic communities.

Media can never capture everything going on at the time, and sometimes wind up being revisionists or cutting details out. Writers tend to embellish and romanticize, or add things into the book that never happened to sell copies, and the fans kind of take it as gospel.

The more I've read about and talked to people who grew up in the 60s, the people in England were still rebuilding the country, and in the 60s, the memory of WWII was becoming distant and foreign, and kids just wanted to have fun and lighten up. Everything described about the 50s is grey and dreary, and rock and roll brought some needed energy and outlet in their lives. But then - the 70s hit, taxes go up, unemployment goes up, Beatles break up, Stones split for France, they ban Clockwork Orange, and the glam movement begins.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Mods were modernists, into motown, rhythm n blues, sharp suits, ivy league clothes, rockers were into the slightly older shit, rock n roll and leather jackets and gene vincent elvis etc. drove proper motorbikes instead of vespas. The rivalry comes from just being opposites, rockers thought mods were soft lads and fairies and mods thought rockers were just thick.

Teddy boys were just rock n rollers into the classic edwardian suit look, made a comeback in the 70s and hated punks.

The punk/mod parrallel is hugely overstated

Although the idea was that they were both more modern forward thinking types, whether they were or not is somethin else, also they both kinda were receptive to the black music ofctheir time, motown for mods and reggae for punks. Flimsy.

Was it a regional thing, or all over the country? Rock history in England was def. different than in America.

Mods and rockers prob. had rivalries that had to do with girls, too. I guess the girls had to look a certain way if they were going to roll with a specific clique.

Wonder where the Indians and Greeks fit in to all of that at the time.

It was a lot more overstated in the press, there weren't but a handful of major rumbles but see when something is publicised like that all the people that get into it thinking that thats what its all about.

Indians and greeks you mean as in the ethnic communities?

The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, thats mod dress but the truth is the bands couldn't really give a fuck i mean, The Who are sung up as some huge mod band but that was management, i mean they loved rock n roll, they came up on it, the bands just played everything with no predudice, it's pretty much the kids that were all big on this mods vs rockers crap.

It seemed like The Who were more of the Mod house band in the beginning, once they made it big in America, went to a whole other level.

Yes, the ethnic communities.

Media can never capture everything going on at the time, and sometimes wind up being revisionists or cutting details out. Writers tend to embellish and romanticize, or add things into the book that never happened to sell copies, and the fans kind of take it as gospel.

The more I've read about and talked to people who grew up in the 60s, the people in England were still rebuilding the country, and in the 60s, the memory of WWII was becoming distant and foreign, and kids just wanted to have fun and lighten up. Everything described about the 50s is grey and dreary, and rock and roll brought some needed energy and outlet in their lives. But then - the 70s hit, taxes go up, unemployment goes up, Beatles break up, Stones split for France, they ban Clockwork Orange, and the glam movement begins.

The ethnic minorities, specifically Indians i can speak of at first hand being a second generation of Kashmiri immigrant myself, they pretty much just kept their heads down and worked. At least in terms of my own family, they were...well, illiterate basically so culture was hardly any concern of theirs, they just got on and worked 18 hour days, this is my Dads older brother whoose about 70 odd now, my Dads in his mid 50s, came here when he was 8 so he kinda lived 99% of his life here and although is very very traditional he's also quite a bit English too. It's funny actually i remember asking my Uncle y'know, can you remember Beatlemania? And he's like, what do i care about some silly singers, i'd come to work, i had no idea.

My Dad too although was very aware of like, the music of his generation, the pop stuff anyway like David Bowie, T Rex, solo Lennon stuff, 10cc etc etc etc and he likes some of it but...it's difficult to explain but...firstly, culturally, in those parts of the world, music is performed and written by people who are considered like...scummy? Music is like a trifle to them, a side concern, something thats kinda on in the background of life...and the ones that were into music were more into the traditional music of where they come from, Indian songs and such, didn't really give a fuck or relate much to what was going on here. Although my Dad, nowadays gets very nostalgic when he hears certain songs...like Starman by David Bowie, Get It On by T Rex and, astonishingly for me, Mind Games by John Lennon. He literally caught me listening to it and he's like what is that, where is that from, thats John Lennon isn't it? And i was like yeah Dad it is and he's like gimme a copy and i did

The thing about England in the 60s and 70s, i mean these things were going on for the people it mattered to, Swinging London and the 60s and certain central cities like Manchester, Liverpool etc had vibrant musical thingies but basically England didn't actually really change a great deal from the 50s right up until the 80s. I mean outside toilets, no bathroom, people used like public baths and shit, no central heating, just like a fire, no carpets, lino all over the floor and this was like this til into the 80s for a great many people, these things were just considered fads and silliness so yeah, you are right, it is not at all an accurate reflection of what was going on, people in those days didn't all go head-first into rock n roll or whatever cliquey type culture cuz there was a revolution happening and everybody was out in the street being all crazy creative it's cuz life was so fucking unbearably shit that you were kind of pushed into it.

There are so many things that America has and has had for a long time that yous probably take for granted that in England are relatively quite new. I love reading of American bands that came over here in the late 70s and it's like "OMG, these fuckin' people don't have mixer taps!" The basic standard of living in this country for many many years has been fucking shit and it still is fucking shit compared to the way America gets on (from what little i know) and other places in Europe.

I mean, take your Jimi Hendrixses and your Jim Morrisons and all those guys, not so much Jimi i guess but Morrison lived a pretty charmed life really, look at most of your American rockstars and like, they lived lovely lives really i mean in terms of comfort and like, y'know, it's not like they worked hard and struggled for shit, fuckin' Roger Daltrey used to work in a sheet metal factory for crying out loud, Roger Daltrey HAD to fuckin' rock n roll or that was his lot, he was gonna be a sheet metal worker for-fuckin'-ever. Lou Reed worked in an office with his Dad, Keith Moon worked for British Gypsum (building supplies), Johnny Rotten worked on building sites, Paul Cook worked in a brewery, put simply, the lives that a lot of the English lot had waiting for them were a lot worse and a lot harder and a lot less appealling that some of their American counterparts, i suppose thats reflected in the fact that, y'know, despite being from this little Island thats pretty much as remote from American rock n roll as you can get they picked it up, perfected their craft and eventually made a noise big enough so the whole world could here. And y'know that working class ethic was reflected in the relentless way they toured, look at some of their schedules in those early days, gruelling ain't the fucking word.

I think the American equivalent is probably like, the people down South i think, this is the impression i get, your rockabilly people, your Elvises and all those guys kinda come from that down to earth bricks and mortar kinda stock.

When you really think about it, it's all a big fraud really, these "movement" things are like, usually based around a core Middle Class elite and then the working classes catch onto it and it becomes something else. Englands 60s was kinda akin to Americas 50s where it was the first time where kids had like, money in their pocket and were in a position where they could assert some kinda identity.

But really, what they feed you is what you're willing to consume. For example reggae has always been big in England and it's been a part of every major decade and every major generation and a huge influence and not big deal is really made of it, especially in whats sent over to America cuz that ain't what yous wanna hear, about reggae and all this crap but it's the reality of it.

Even Mods, it's treated like some great rock n roll thing but those guys were fucking more into Motown and Soul and later reggae than anything that could really be considered rock n roll, blues covers maybe. Truth is it was a mish mash of a lot of different things and if you talk to your ordinary people of the 60s, not your very into music types but y'know, your average people, even in the 60s they weren't all Beatles, Stones, Who, they were into Manfred Mann and Herman and the Hermits and The Hollies and Dave Dee Dozy Beaky Mick and Titch and The Monkees and Gene Pitney.

Englands a very small place with a lot of different people packed into a small area so the representation of things that otherwise might be small subcultures becomes a lot more pronnounced a lot more quickly and there's a lot more crossover.

It's not a little revisionism, it's a helluva lot because otherwise you couldn't write books about it, books have to be going somewhere and reality ain't going nowhere, shit just happens y'know? These books are dynamic and focused and they're written with a view to make a very specific impression...and i guess thats kinda gotta be that way because books just can't be a mess with no kind of...underlying thread that ties it altogether and brings you to the conclusion that, OK, THIS is what was happening.

[luciusfunk]

Reporter: Are you a mod or a rocker?

Ringo: Um, no. I'm a mocker.