1986 Club Dates

[DieselDaisy]

The gig at the Stone was Thursday 28th August, with Jetboy & Vain.

Wow, thanks. Do you know of any more lost gnr gigs?

Edited April 27, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Creepshow,

I was re-reading Reckless Road and I came across, what I think are references to the Gardner Studio which narrows the date of the rape/Police thing further:

'this is for the last two weeks worth of partying at the studio, and all those sweet girls that we asked to see their tits'.

- Axl, The Roxy, 18th January 1986.

It seems certain that they were at Gardner until, well into January then. It is also a bit of a confession of a debauched period with women at Gardner, exactly why the Police were keeping the place under surveillence (allegations of pimping and sex with minors). It also seems probable that the rape/police thing hadn't happened yet (otherwise, why would Axl be celebrating the period while not ranting?)

Also, at the following show this preceded the show opener,

'This is a brand new one. I wanna dedicate this to the LAPD, and any young girls that like to fuck around. ''Out Ta' Get Me''.

- Axl, The Troubadour, 28 February 1986.

The girl being, the 'hippie chick'? This was the debut of OTGM (also telling).

Also, at the same show, this is a description of a curious incident. It seems to hint at the Gardner being trashed (which we know it was):

'Anyway, if anybody runs into a couple of guys named Jeff and Allen, feel free to kick their fucking heads in. These are the guys that kicked in our studio door, so if you see them, be my guest.'

- Slash, The Troubadour, 28 February 1986

Jeff and Allen? Could they be cops. Or maybe two guys who thought they would attack 'rapists'? Or maybe just random guys?

We are told that band activity ceased for awhile while Axl and Slash were on the run. The time lapse between these two shows, 18th January to 28th February, seems rather large considering they were not doing any recording. The incident probably happened sometime soon after 18th January then. Following this incident, the studio was trashed, Gardner was put under surveillance and the band absconded. 28th February was the time it took to sort the thing out legally so that Axl and Slash felt safe to appear publically again (well, maybe a week or so earlier as shows were booked in advance).

Also, what do you think of the times usually given for the recording of Appetite. I often see August-Dec 1986 (wikipedia). I might be totally wrong here but it seems far too early.

Edited April 29, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[recklessroad]

The recording didn't start till around Dec Sept to Dec was more pre production and playing the songs over and over to get them tight

[DieselDaisy]

Thanks Marc. The reason I thought it was later was I read in your book

'This album you've been waiting on, for ourselves here, we just done recording it Friday. It's gonna be out in a couple of months due to all of the artwork and shit like that, but the motherfucker's done'

- Axl, The Roxy, 29th March 1987.

That 'Friday' would have been the 27th March. So they finished recording (I presume this was the Take One overdub stuff) Appetite for Destruction on 27th March 1987! There is also the fact that an August 86 beginning would run into the recording of Live Like A Suicide.

They probably began mixing circa May 10th (maybe a bit earlier) as this was why Axl and Slash were not at the Drunk Fux gig. They were called away at the last minute to NY to oversee the mix (this was when Todd Crew died).

Edited April 29, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Creepshow2]

Maybe Jeff and Allen were two guys who just trashed the place since Axl and Slash knew their first names. Although it's possible they caught the police officer's first names but if they announced it to the crowd, it's probably someone they knew or knew of.

Did the police also trash Gardener Studio when they were after Axl and Slash?

Also, do you know if Gardener Studio is where they recorded the first demo session or did they just live/rehearse there? Marc said the studio was in Los Angeles between Hollywood and Sunset Boulevard. Does Gardener qualify as a possiblity?

[DieselDaisy]

The accounts differ but according to Slash's autobiography the Police arrived - only Steven was present - and searched (i.e. trashed) the premise. It does seem to have been trashed around this period. Certainly something, rather crazy, was happening at Gardner.

I doubt it was Gardner. Gardner was not a studio. It was just a storage space with a dirty green door. There is a picture of them in front of that door in Robert John's book. Apparently it was very small. But I may be wrong - they may have put a 4-track in Gardner at some stage and recorded something.

I do not know much about the 1985 demos. Is this the demo Black Randy funded? It is just Marc mentions a demo funded by a Raz Crue - Marc also put some money into this I believe. It is confusing. GN'R's demos are a bit of a mess to try and sort out. I have the majority of them on various boots I have collected over the years and I have no idea if they are, Pasha, Sound City or something earlier? I mean the fact that we do not even know when and where Crash Diet was recorded sort of sums up the situation. One day I am going to try and tackle all of these demos and figure out what belongs to what etc.

[recklessroad]

It was Gardner and yes black Randy also helped on the first demo from Sept 1985

[DieselDaisy]

Oh great. So they must have hired some sort of 4 or 8 track and moved it into Gardner (because, from my understanding there wasn't enough room to swing a cat in there)?

[recklessroad]

No it was recorded in a recording studio in Hollywood near Vine and Hollywood

[Creepshow2]

It was Gardner and yes black Randy also helped on the first demo from Sept 1985

What was Gardner?

Is the name of the recording studio still unknown?

[recklessroad]

It was a tiny rehearsal space behind Guitar Center on Sunset but since most of the band had nowhere to stay, they stayed there.

[Creepshow2]

I should have worded that question differently. Sorry for the confusion Marc. I know what Gardner is, what I meant to ask is when you said "It was Gardner..." were you referring to the place they actually recorded the first demo or were you just confirming what DieselDaisy said about the photo of the band in front of the green door?

If it's not the place where they recorded it, is the name of that place still unknown? Would anyone in the band remember it or even the date that the tape was finished?

[recklessroad]

No it was the place where they stayed. They didn't record there. I don't think anybody remembers the name of the place but I will see if I can find out

[Creepshow2]

That would be great. Thank you Marc. I'm putting together a Zine about old GN'R demos; the different takes, runtimes, little details that determine which ones are from which session, the dates they were recorded, the producers, and the studios they were recorded in. A lot of work has been going into this project for a while so knowing the name of the first place would be really great to have.

Thanks again.

[DieselDaisy]

Let me know the results. As I said, the demos are sort of a mess so it is a huge undertaking.

I wish GN'R would release a Beatles anthology boxset type thing (1985 demos, sound city demos, pasha demos, the mysterious demos with a drum machine, illusion outakes and alternative mixes).

[Creepshow2]

I'll definitely send you all the information once I get it together which will be soon. If anyone knows anything about the Use Your Illusion demos, outtakes, instrumentals, please let me know. The only ones from that era that I have dates for and can place the sessions together are Mates Rehearsal - December 1989, Record Plant - December 1990-January 1991, and Record Plant September 21, 1990.

I also have a folder of Use Your Illusion demos but they are not listed with a certain session and they're all over the place. Get in the Ring, Ain't Goin' Down, Back Off Bitch, Coma, etc. This is the part I need help on. Anyone?

[DieselDaisy]

Are you of the opinion that the drum machine demos (crash diet etc) are '80s Hellhouse demos?

[Creepshow2]

Yeah, especially since West Arkeen is given a writing credit on The Garden and Yesterdays it makes sense that those songs, written so early on, if they were to be recorded would be with him.

[recklessroad]

Are you of the opinion that the drum machine demos (crash diet etc) are '80s Hellhouse demos?

I think they are from 1986 recorded at Hell House

[Creepshow2]

I won't get too off topic with the Use Your Illusion demos so I'll just put that in another thread.

Marc, regarding the Hell House demos would those songs be considered by Guns N' Roses or under a different name? Do you know who all the musicians are? Also, are these all the songs from that session?: Bad Obsession, Bring It Back Home, Crash Diet, Just Another Sunday, Sentimental Movie, The Garden, Too Much Too Soon, Yesterdays

[jman2000]

Creepshow I'd love to see your finished product also. For dates and downloads for demo, I'd check out the bootleg "The Hell Revisited". The back cover has all the recording sessions, but nothing real specific.

DOWNLOAD

BACK COVER

[recklessroad]

No it was the place where they stayed. They didn't record there. I don't think anybody remembers the name of the place but I will see if I can find out

It was recorded at Mystic studio

record label and music production company that was based in Hollywood CA one block south of Hollywood and Vine (6277 Selma) and later moved to Oceanside, California. The studio was originally the Del-Fi Studio where Bobby Fuller Four recorded "I Fought the Law" and Richie Valens "La Bamba." Mystic is not a member of the RIAA, and it specializes in hardcore punk, crossover thrash, underground, vintage, and cult records. It is owned and operated by Doug Moody. Some of the more well-known acts on Mystic Records are NOFX, Dr. Know, RKL, Battalion of Saints, Ill Repute, Agression andThe Mentors. Mystic also released vinyl compilations featuring Suicidal Tendencies, New Regime, Black Flag, SIN 34, Government Issue, The Minutemen,Habeas Corpus, The Instigators, and Bad Religion.

[Creepshow2]

Thanks for taking the time with that, Marc. This project is going better than I expected. I'll post all the information once I finish going through each take a few times. It's meant to go into a Zine but I'll let everyone here see it first since the demo situation is all over the place.

[DieselDaisy]

If you look at that bootleg jman posted, it says 'Use Your Illusion' demos for all of the demos with the drum machine. It is the same for every boot I have seen.

[jman2000]

I'm here with DieselDaisy, only problem is that they sound nothing like the rest of the UYI outtakes/demos. They sound much older as others have stated almost like Hellhouse demos.