karlossacanell Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 axl health problems, not more sold out concerts, the manage of the venues don´t want axl to play in their venues, less economic benefits than expected... and another question, what do you think it will happen from now? IS THIS THE END OF GUNS, they will go to europe again to cancel all the dates again, they will delay the release date of chinese democracy... loli keep thinking everything is planed by MR. business uncle Axl.what you have to say about this? : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffan Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 What they have to do is release the F*#kin album so more people will take these new guys more seriously as a band because if they release thier own material they will get credibilty . They don't have it yet as GnR , they do as individual artists and have respect for past accomplishments but many people are of the " What have you done for me Lately " category and until this happens Axl n Co. will encounter many set backs . Peace GnR Nation 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 It's all part of the Master Plan.. you will all see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffan Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 We'll probably be six ft under by the time this Master Plan is finished ;D ;D ;D Peace GnR Nation 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbrownstone Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 exactly right duffan untill they release new album they are gonna be called a cover band,best cover band in the world but still a cover band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIVILIANS Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I also want to believe that it's all part of the masterplan,i'm being so naive i guess but what i really think is the reason is that mr.Rose party too much after the MSG concert and that he had a hang over just like in Montreal were he supposedly party with 4 chicks in a bathtub,something like that and it damaged very badly his voice ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazprm Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 2 cents on "master plan"-Before and when GnR was on tour that was a good way to get fans and keep fans, but now with cancellations and riots that path is nearly F**KED. If the tour continues people at the shows will know that their show can be stopped at the last minute, which is not a good thing for GnR. If the tour is cancelled the only hope they have left is the release of the new CD. I would say the sooner it comes out the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 What masterplan could include so many cancelled concerts and so many delays on the relase of Chinese Democracy? This is not very "Master-like" for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbrownstone Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 What masterplan could include so many cancelled concerts and so many delays on the relase of Chinese Democracy? This is not very "Master-like" for me.cant help feeling something is wrong with it ken,exactly right this isnt a masterplan its going tits up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockerman Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Master plan? Are you on crack..its just piss poor business and public relations. What it is is taking your fans for granted and being if anything unprofessional. Axl raked his old band for being unprofessional what the Heck is making 20.000 fans wait without an expalination? Canceling a tour.. and making life long fans lose out? .Master Plan? I think it plays Axls hand out rather well.. Perhaps Ol' Mr. Democratic China doesn't have the heart anymore to be a rock star. A canceled tour on the comeback trail..... this is rich. Mr. Sparkle how nieve are you? Sounds like ol' Axl could sh*t in your face and you would lap it up because its part of the 'MASTER PLAN" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Master plan? Are you on crack..its just piss poor business and public relations. What it is is taking your fans for granted and being if anything unprofessional. Axl raked his old band for being unprofessional what the Heck is making 20.000 fans wait without an expalination? Canceling a tour.. and making life long fans lose out? .Master Plan? I think it plays Axls hand out rather well.. Perhaps Ol' Mr. Democratic China doesn't have the heart anymore to be a rock star. A canceled tour on the comeback trail..... this is rich. Mr. Sparkle how nieve are you? Sounds like ol' Axl could sh*t in your face and you would lap it up because its part of the 'MASTER PLAN"riiiiight, that's why axl has 100's of millions of dollars and you don't : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 riiiiight, that's why axl has 100's of millions of dollars and you don't :Maybe he doesn't deserve all that money??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Well I think there was a plan, but it got derailed. I know a lot of you have taken shots at the new band for not playing more new songs. But, in my book, this strategy made perfect sense. First, he wanted to get the Guns N' Roses name back out there, and the way to do that was to tour and play mostly -- but not all -- the old classics that people know and love. Then, after touring for a couple of months and drawing old and new fans into the music, the album would be released, and a new leg of the tour would begin where the setlist would contain significantly more new songs. Axl avoided any press interviews -- except some radio shows -- until the new album is out. While I disagreed with this part, I understood why he did it. He didn't want to be answering endless questions about the old band and the breakup, which is all he could really talk about until the album is out. While the first cancellation may not have been deliberate -- it actually helped promote the band: It helped hype the band's old "bad boy" image and gave it headlines around the world. However, I think the band made a serious misstep in Philly. I don't think this was part of the plan, and I don't think the band members anticipated the huge fallout that would occur when they cancelled the gig. (ie. the Tour getting scrapped). I really think they need to do some damage control here. Axl needs to make a statement or hire a good spokesperson who can make a statement on his behalf and explain what happened and what's next. The silence isn't working in his favor. He needs to tell his side. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockerman Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Duhh good one Mr. Sparkle. Like I said are you on crack? What the hell does $$$ have to do with this conversation? Was that your feeble attempt to demonstrate that Axls got some business savy and like me- "Mr. Joe Fan" doesnt? what makes Axl rich is dumbazz fans that follow him recklessly and regardless of how he treats them. Who spend hundreds of $ to be treated like fools. Yeagh that problably seems like a logical "Master Plan" to you and for that I am sorry because it proves my point more than anything else I've ever said about GNR in this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 You said he was a bad buisnessman.. uhh, that's where it comes into it... he has 100's of millions of dollars... therefore he is not a bad buisnessman.. duh. : Plus gnr has ALWAYS been about controversy... why should it change now? That's what got them so popular in the 1st place... good music + controversy = 100's of millions of dollars.. you will see. Young padawan... you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockerman Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Foolish manchild... Guns and Roses got huge and made lots of money because the Music did the talking..The music was endearing... the backstory about the band was the bonus... GNR never had to rely on some gimmick to get publicity. They were publicity. And if the publicity thing is your angle then ask your self one simple question why aint Interscope and BIGFD managment talking to everyone and everything to pump this tour and album? MAster plan..... Alienating your fans is one hell of a master plan..... Naww Axls having the fans tear the sh*t out of a place is rather weak argument even for you Mr. Sparkle...even for you. If he did then your perception of AXl is shallower than your professed love for him. If this was part of a plan then he IS a bigger azzhole than I could have ever described him as. And I never said that he was a bad businessman I said IT was piss poor business.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 You said he was a bad buisnessman.. uhh, that's where it comes into it... he has 100's of millions of dollars... therefore he is not a bad buisnessman.. duh. : Plus gnr has ALWAYS been about controversy... why should it change now? That's what got them so popular in the 1st place... good music + controversy = 100's of millions of dollars.. you will see. Young padawan... you will see.100's of millions of $ dont make him a buisnessman.He is an artist who is payed for his work, like people that work in factories.Stop kissing his ass. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazprm Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Question: Why is it Axl's fault?-Just because he has a history of negative stuff what makes him the prime suspect for this last incident. I'm not saying your wrong, but until I hear what happened from a credible source (Axl interview) I'm not going to blame it on anyone. Buckethead could have the flu, Tommy could have an ear infection etc... These guys are human, they can get sick. I don't agree that they should've cancelled the show so late in the program. They shouldn't have let anyone in the venue knowing that a band member is sick. Which makes me believe that is lie because it was so late in the game. They could've easily told people at the door a band member is sick and the show will be re-sheduled. But with so much crap and rumors going around I don't know what to believe until I hear it from a credible source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carne_asaDA Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I think that there is beef going on between some members. In particular, Robin Finck. He left the band once. He could leave again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 That would be good.I dont like him. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlossacanell Posted December 8, 2002 Author Share Posted December 8, 2002 we only can wait until they do an statement, i don´t think poor sales is the reason, cause they don´t promote too much this tour, and also they don´t have new songs out ... i guess promoters of the tour aren´t so stupid to think all the venues would be fullllll and sold out ... maybe the philly thing was part of his masterplan which it takes a lot of sense for all this, but the the damage of this was not calculated and now we don´t have tour ...and to finish, any of you say axl is not a good businessman, only a great player... do you think guns and roses was and is the most controversial band ever because axl is a bad boy? no, it was and is cause axl know how to sell his image of bad boy .... MASTERPLAN is out there ... how will finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauda Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I think the reason Finck was gone for a while was that he wanted to tour with NiN and that Axl and the rest of the band didn`t have big need for him rigth there so he played a tour with NiN.. Was it something more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 no, you're right Gauda. Trent asked Finck to come back when he was wrapping the "Fragile" album. That was why Finck left. However, all of the new GNR members have been hired under non-exclusive contracts (according to a recent interview), which means all of them are free to play with other bands when and if they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manstis1604 Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I'm hearing/reading a lot of rumors that Robin Finck has left Guns N' Roses because of all of the bullshit (no-shows, not playing new material, etc.). That would be a pretty big blow I think, when I saw them in Cleveland Finck was the heart and soul of the band (besides Axl of course). He really gets into the music and he reminds me of Jimmy Page in the fact that he plays sloppy as hell, but in a cool, rugged kind of way. Not that he's as good as Jimmy Page, of course, but in that way I think they're similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I agree Manstis1604. I think it would be a huge blow for GNR if the band lost Finck. I never realized how central he was to the band until I saw them play at MSG. I always thought Buckethead would be the guitar power behind the new GNR. But not so. Finck played lead on most of the songs and he really got into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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