Lithium Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 You're not a real man unless you wear a monocle and a funny hat and lived 200 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yet for the whole of human history, up until the last twenty years in fact, no man has ever entered a delivery room unless he be a pediatrician. If there was some sort of, innate urgency, to be present, surely we would have been present a whole lot sooner?Being present for the gory spectacle, the screaming, does not lessen the uniqueness and special nature of gaining a child. Usually in fact, this happens,Nurse: ''just calm your wife and hold her hand Mr___''Man: ''Okay''. (holding her hand) ''don't worry darling, just breath - it will all be over sooner''.Woman ''FUCK OFF YOU CUNT. IT WAS YOU WHO GOT ME IN THIS POSITION TO BEGIN WITH''.Then later, man passes out when he sees the gory details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yet for the whole of human history, up until the last twenty years in fact, no man has ever entered a delivery room unless he be a pediatrician. You cannot possibly know that. I mean for one thing, for the whole of human history up until the last 150 years at best, there hasn't been any such thing as a delivery room. And I'm not sure how long pediatrics as a specific discipline has been around, either. I'm sure somewhere along the line in the thousands of cultures that have existed throughout humanity, there have been some men somewhere who have witnessed a birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yet for the whole of human history, up until the last twenty years in fact, no man has ever entered a delivery room unless he be a pediatrician. You cannot possibly know that. I mean for one thing, for the whole of human history up until the last 150 years at best, there hasn't been any such thing as a delivery room. And I'm not sure how long pediatrics as a specific discipline has been around, either. I'm sure somewhere along the line in the thousands of cultures that have existed throughout humanity, there have been some men somewhere who have witnessed a birth. We are discussing the husbands here - not male medical staff, whatever their nomenclature. Also, I use delivery room in the loosest sense.Most societies that have ever existed have been patriarchal societies by which, a woman's sphere (including childbirth), has been closed off. This is simply, fact. Sure, you may find some societies where it was permitted but you look at Ancient Greece, Rome, Latin Christendom; you look at the Eastern Confucian based cultures; you look at early modern Western societies; and they all conform to a similar pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I am maintaining my high degree of doubt surrounding your claim, but even if you are correct about it historically, I do not agree that the father should be absent from the birth. We'll have to agree to disagree, but your stance may come up to bite you someday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The best thing a bloke can do is, go down to the pub, simply asking them to ring him there when the child is born. No blood; no screaming; no hysterical women. Simply arrive at the hospital with a box of chocolates and you are presented with a nice new son or daughter. That is the way the Victorians used to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 That is the way the Victorians used to do it.Therefore we should do it in 2014 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 That is the way the Victorians used to do it.Therefore we should do it in 2014 as well.I knew you would see it my way.Of course, if you are a Guardian reading 'touchy feely' metrosexual, go right ahead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Why the hell wouldn't you want to be there for the birth of your child? I couldn't think of any place I'd rather be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I can think of a million places I would rather be; down the pub for instance or at the cricket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I guess the guy just can't stomach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 What use could a men potentially have in the delivery room? The woman always calls the man a ''fuckin cunt'' and a ''bastard'' anyway? What do you expect to do in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead74 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yet for the whole of human history, up until the last twenty years in fact, no man has ever entered a delivery room unless he be a pediatrician. If there was some sort of, innate urgency, to be present, surely we would have been present a whole lot sooner?Being present for the gory spectacle, the screaming, does not lessen the uniqueness and special nature of gaining a child. Usually in fact, this happens,Nurse: ''just calm your wife and hold her hand Mr___''Man: ''Okay''. (holding her hand) ''don't worry darling, just breath - it will all be over sooner''.Woman ''FUCK OFF YOU CUNT. IT WAS YOU WHO GOT ME IN THIS POSITION TO BEGIN WITH''.Then later, man passes out when he sees the gory details.Yet for the whole of human history, up until the last 60 years or so women weren't allowed to vote and black people had no rights.......as if the beliefs of human history have any standing whatsoever on what is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Not sure about the analogy. Voting and racial equality are political values which, can have some impact on society. A man attending a birth is a sort of, lifestyle option, an option of nothingness. It is just a product of namby pamby asexuality. All the man can do conceivably is stand around like a plank looking gormless. As I said - which nobody has addressed - usually he just acts as an irritant to his wife who ends up producing endless expletives, directed against him and his presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead74 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 My point wasn't about impact on society, my point was that just because 'the whole of human history' did something a certain way or held a particular belief, doesn't justify those actions or beliefs....or prove that they were correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithium Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Let's all just agree that everything was better in the 1840s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The only namby pamby is the one who can't take an expletive when someone they love is in pain and whose discomfort around blood prevents their being there. It's funny you mention asexuality, since you come across as seriously lacking any balls. Generally in any extreme situation in life, whether a time of joy, pain, or distress, the most important thing we can do for one another is to be present. I guess that's something that takes some longer than others to learn. I can't imagine a father preferring to miss the first cry uttered from their offspring, or to see their wife hold their child for the first time. To miss the greatest moment of your lives together in favor of a pint and televised sports? Well, if doing what you need to do to make some 150-year-old ghosts not think you're gay makes you happier, then go right ahead I guess. Why stop there, though? You probably ought not ever see your wife fully naked. And you probably should bathe more infrequently and not refrigerate your foods as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 My point wasn't about impact on society, my point was that just because 'the whole of human history' did something a certain way or held a particular belief, doesn't justify those actions or beliefs....or prove that they were correct.I agree. I was rather joking with my 'Victorian' thing.The reason I would not attend the birth is, I simply do not think it is a man's place and I do not believe we can possibly do any good in there. But it is interesting that there has never been any urge by masculinity to enter the delivery room until, the 1950s/60s - and I would say it has only proliferated since the 1990s. This supports, in my view, the fact it is an alien concept conceived by left wing Guardian reading ideologues.Let's all just agree that everything was better in the 1840s.Nah, the Corn Laws were passed in that decade. The only namby pamby is the one who can't take an expletive when someone they love is in pain and whose discomfort around blood prevents their being there. It's funny you mention asexuality, since you come across as seriously lacking any balls. Generally in any extreme situation in life, whether a time of joy, pain, or distress, the most important thing we can do for one another is to be present. I guess that's something that takes some longer than others to learn. I can't imagine a father preferring to miss the first cry uttered from their offspring, or to see their wife hold their child for the first time. To miss the greatest moment of your lives together in favor of a pint and televised sports? Well, if doing what you need to do to make some 150-year-old ghosts not think you're gay makes you happier, then go right ahead I guess. Why stop there, though? You probably ought not ever see your wife fully naked. And you probably should bathe more infrequently and not refrigerate your foods as well. Who said anything about televised? (I am assuming this happens during the summer between 11am and 5.30pm by the way!).Stop being such a big poofta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 It's not about serving a purpose. It's about witnessing the birth of something you created. About seeing your missus bond with the baby for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhead74 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 My point wasn't about impact on society, my point was that just because 'the whole of human history' did something a certain way or held a particular belief, doesn't justify those actions or beliefs....or prove that they were correct. I agree. I was rather joking with my 'Victorian' thing.The reason I would not attend the birth is, I simply do not think it is a man's place and I do not believe we can possibly do any good in there. But it is interesting that there has never been any urge by masculinity to enter the delivery room until, the 1950s/60s - and I would say it has only proliferated since the 1990s. This supports, in my view, the fact it is an alien concept conceived by left wing Guardian reading ideologues.Nah, I'd say the stronger voice of women in society in general has more to do with it. Since the 50s and 60s women have had a much greater presence in many aspects of day to day life and as a result it is at THEIR request as well as most men actually wanting to be there to support their wife/partner, that demands their presence in the delivery room. Life today is so much more equal that it's only viewed as right that the father should be there in the trenches supporting the mother. I don't think the Guardian has anything to do with it whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I am surrounded by a bunch of wet feminist lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncivil war Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 It's not about serving a purpose. It's about witnessing the birth of something you created. About seeing your missus bond with the baby for the first time.This.And to be there to support, comfort and help your partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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