dustindmnd2

You made some good arguments... the one I quoted below, though, is misleading. after jeremy, they pretty much stopped making videos outside of do the evolution, which was several albums after ten, and they did a promo vid in 2002 for i am mine. even without the vids, vs. and vitalogy set records with their releases without them using that format.

i love gnr's videos... they put alot of thought into making them art, but there is something admirable about making music for music's sake and not giving in to the image-driven, if you look good the music must be good, MTV scene. video did, in a way, kill the radio star.

5. Those who cite their longevity as a factor that makes them great are wrong, they may still be around, but they haven't been all that popular since the mid-90's. How often do you see anything besides "Jeremy" on MTV, maybe "Do the Evolution" once in a blue moon but it's clear that they have never and will never match their initial popularity.

Gn'R no doubt, Pearl Jam didn't hace the impact Guns did on music....the music world would be the same if PJ hadn't existed, not the case with Guns N' Roses rock2

I have a hard time even saying anyone is better than GNR cause they are so freakin awesome, but when it comes to impact on music, wouldn't being an influence on future music be a good measure of impact? Thus bands like the Beatles, Stones, Zep, are so widely copied that their impact is undeniable.

If that is the case, I can think of only a few loosely-GNR-influenced bands, but there are about a million bands trying to sound like PJ (consiquently, they all suck: nickleback, creed, staind, etc., with STP being a really good PJ imitator). The PJ influence is there.

Alright, I can sense many of you frothing at the mouth already, but let me state my case. Like all of you, I am a hard rock fan. My top 3 fav. bands of all time are GNR, Pearl Jam, and the Beatles (I realize Beatles aren't hard rock).

For most of the 90s and early 2000s, there was no doubt in my mind that I felt GNR was superior to PJ (no one is superior to the Beatles). But as each year went by, GNR stayed idle with basically 3 full albums of material while PJ just kept pumping out great albums every year or two.

Though song for song, GNR is better than just about anyone, but let's face it, they are NOT prolific song writers (sorry, but since '97 I've been told just wait for ChDem... CD doesn't come into my thinking on this one) They have a great, but small catelogue.

PJ has a great, large, and growing catelogue, and they have grown over the years without prostituting themselves on MTV and crap.

So with a cool new PJ single out- and I might add it is free via the band, no threats from agents and lawyers (oh yea, they care about there fans unlike another band in my top 3)- on tenclub.net - I am ready to say it... I believe PJ is a better band. I love em both, but with Axl not able to put out more than one song (Oh My God isn't a great one either) in ten years, GNR will remain one of my favorite bands that I wish didn't suffer from severe writers block, which makes a prolific band like PJ a better, more relavent rock band.

Peace,

Screetcher

it is lame to try to harm someone (or their computer) because they say something you disagree with. give me a break!

you are probably the type who throws pies at political speakers you disagree with.

lame.

Here is this tools email address, lets crash his email by all emailing him now:

mike.bell@calgarysun.com

Here is the link for the article:

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2006/03/04/1473007.html

Opinion: Making Axl matter again

By MIKE BELL -- Calgary Sun

The job description of publicist has changed a great deal over the past few years.

Back in the day, it merely required you to get your client seen with all of the right people and featured in all of the right magazines.

Or, on the damage control side of things, to issue a statement offering a plausible explanation/excuse on behalf of the client such as "Mr. Arbuckle was merely making a toast when things went horribly awry" or "While Mr. Gere would love to attend your sit-down function, he regrets he will have to decline in order to care for his family pets."

And the worst- case scenario, hammering the teeth out, blowtorching the finger prints and disposing of the body.

These days, though, celebrity, itself, has evolved from merely doing or accomplishing something that is inspiring to others, to accomplishing nothing but presenting to the public the minutia of your life to obsess over, such as getting out of bed, buying a coffee at Starbucks or being totally, unequivocally heterosexual. Really.

Managing that minutia -- planning it, planting it, pimping it or publicly denying it -- is the new job of the publicist.

But how to make a splash for your client -- to get the people to care about your client's flip flops, weight loss or genuine affection (no, seriously) for the opposite sex -- is what sets the Lohan's apart from the ... well, somebody not nearly as trendy, skinny or promiscuous as her.

Actually Lindsay Lohan's person or, more likely people (a team of 23 genetically created individuals working around the clock) are pioneers in the world of PR -- from the feuds to the sluttiness to the familial car-wreck to the lost diary to the anorexia to the "exhaustion" to the car show nipple slip, there is nothing too shameless in their world and for the good of their client.

Which makes it seem likely those same people have now set their skills on the once dormant career of Axl Rose.

Long the punchline to the old rock 'n' roll joke -- "How many jerks does it take to make a mediocre bar band famous and then break up that band when they're really popular and then get new musicians and call them the name of that old band and then take 10 years and an estimated $15 million to record a new album that will probably stink bad?" (I never said it was a good joke) -- Rose now sits on the most anticipated thing since the second coming of Christ (you probably missed it because that day Brangelina was spotted in a mall -- with the kids!!!)

Five songs reportedly from Chinese Democracy (I.R.S., There Was A Time, The Blues, Catcher In the Rye and Better) have already been "leaked" on the Internet and to radio stations, with all of the right reactions from the Rose camp such as cease and desist orders and the proper amount of "outrage" and "shock."

Uh huh. They really, really hate people talking about an album that, as of now, doesn't even have a release date.

Their client has been irrevocably damaged by the release of songs, which, despite sounding as dated and indulgent as the most bloated GNR song at the apex of their crapaciousness, have fuelled anticipation from fans and non-fans alike who acknowledge the blackhole of sucktitude this music represents but still can't wait to hear the rest of it to determine the full extent of its bowel-moving odiferousness.

Even I, after sitting through these songs and feeling the full wave of nausea sear through to the very core of my being, returning lunch back above ground and causing me to question the existence of a kind and merciful creator, even I want to hear the rest of the album.

Now, maybe, maybe these really are leaks.

But more likely it's the diabolical work of people who know what they're doing -- geniuses in the field of publicity.

And if that's the case, then I don't think it's a stretch to predict before the month is over --ladies and gentlemen, I give you Mrs. Lindsay Rose.

May I be the first to toast the bride.

QUICK HITS:

Speaking of publicists, if Scott Stapp leaked his sex video with Kid Rock in order to kickstart his stalling solo career -- as Rock seemed to suggest -- he may want to stop taking advice from Fred Durst ... Is it me, or did Avril Lavigne look and sound fantastic at the Olympics closing ceremony? She done growed up good ... Don't get your hopes up on a Madonna show in Calgary. The only reported Canadian show is a date in T.O. ... Finally, adding insult to injury, Sheryl Crow was apparently getting set to announce a Canadian tour before she had to undergo surgery for breast cancer. Here's wishing her a speedy recovery in hopes we'll see her soon.

Ok, I was just thinking... Steven Adler played the drums hard and aggresively, but you can't really say he ever did any impressive fills or arangements. Plus his inability to keep himself together obviously hurt him

Matt Sorum actually has some really good arrangements (You Could Be Mine, Estranged, to name a couple), but he plays like a pu-swa'. He hits the drums as if there are little puppies and kittens sleeping on the drums that he doesn't want to wake (something that I thought might just be on albums, but confirmed to be true when I saw VR on their last tour... he blew).

I've heard Brain is awesome from Primus... I can't say I've listened to their stuff enough to tell, and it is hard for me to assess what he can do just from the live bootlegs I've heard (plays the GNR stuff well, but I wonder about what he can come up with for CD).

So my question... Who is the best GNR drummer? I am willing to say Brain without knowing crap about him.

Peace,

Screetcher

Good question... I'd be hella-disapointed. The Blues and Madagascar sound really good, as does TWAT (getting lots of play on my iPOD). But, let's be real here...

Rhiad and Silk Worms blow- I can't imagine that they'd even make the final cut and be on it.

CD, I.R.S., and Oh My God are ok... maybe B- on my report card.

Better is hard to tell given the short demo, but I think what is out there is weak.

So if it was released with those songs, would it be better than the current music scene? Sure, but that's not saying much. It would be the worst GnR CD released, maybe a little better than Spaghetti Incident.

I'm cool with Axl going for a new sound, and my above critiques are what I think of those songs, but I honestly believe the album will cut some of the above and add some unknown great ones, but if those were the tracks released after 10 years, I'd be immensly disapointed.

Peace,

Screetch

Theoretically, a 13 track album could be released with:

The Blues

Rhiad

Madagascar

CD

IRS

Better

TWAT

And also possibly:

Oh My God

Silkworms

There seems to be a general consensus amongst the hardcore fans that Axl has absolute epics up his sleeve, my question is, were CD to be released with just thirteen tracks (7, perhaps even 9 of which we've already heard) would you be satisfied/disappointed:

A) With the quality

B ) With only a few unheard tracks being on the album?

Dude, I wish I had thought of that. Haha

The song is actually called \"Butter,\" since it\'s Axl\'s favorite toast accessorie.

But the Rolling Stone reported mis-spelled it.

That joke sucked.

Hey, any ideas about why Axl (allegedly) chose the title, "Better" for that other leaked track?

My guess is that it is short for, "Wish this song were a little better 'cause it's not very good."

Or perhaps, "After 10 years, you'd think it'd be better."

Just my guesses... honest.

XOXO Screetch

Great point. Unless you have a hit song, you cannot voice an opinion on a song. I swear, you are NOT a moron. Please, don't let anyone ever tell you that you are a moron because you are in fact quite smart.

Again, you are NOT a moron, and only the Beatles may voice opinions on music. Am I allowed to say Beatles? Do you have criteria for that?

Once more: you = NOT a moron

You are nobody to criticize Axl´s music.... Man you dont have a hit like November Rain... when you release a song like that, say everything you want about Axl...

I have a final question? Who you believe you are? Ludwig Van Beethoven?

Alright, I realize everyone has a boner over the new songs. While I am excited to hear Axl and am encouraged that Chinese Democracy might actually happen (barring Axl losing his mind and destroying all of the recordings... c'mon, you've thought of the possibility), the songs were nothing special.

Better: Sorry, but this song is weak. The intro sounds like a 13 year old messing on a guitar, and the song is one big pop cliche' lyricaly. The main riff is boring, plain and simple. Axl's voice does sound good, though.

I.R.S.: This one is ok... Another weak intro... Axl sounds ridiculous with the moaning in the beginning, but his singing is pretty cool after that. The shredding solo (Buckethead I assume?) is sweet as hell... too bad he's gone. I think some of the lyrics are pretty lame ("What can I do if I gave my heart to you?") more pop cliche's. I guess I just expect something more poetic and less sounding like it was written for Kelly Clarkson.

I could see I.R.S. on the DaVinci Code soundtrack given the conspiracy theme it seems to have- it would fit the story well.

I guess my bottom line is this: It's cool to hear from Axl, and I.R.S. is pretty good, but if these songs are any more than filler, this album will disapoint. It'll sell well then people will forget about it. I am hoping these are the songs that Axl will be leaving off of it, and we know he has like 30-something recorded for a 12 track album, so they may not be part of CD. I just expect more of him.

Peace,

Screech

You said it, dude... this posting is the most accurate look at the leaks thus far.

So unless I like every new song that leaks I'm not a real fan or something? Get over yourself. You're on a high because there's new material, but it's not THAT good. I'm hearing people say shit like, "BETTER IS THE BEST SONG I'VE EVER HEARD" and you tell me I'M overreacting?

I'm just giving you the facts. You can say I'm stuck in the past or whatever else you want, but the original Guns N' Roses was the greatest band of all-time, and whatever Axl and his traveling circus does now is going to be compared to it. This album has been in production for nearly 10 years now, and sorry if I expect a little more than just "decent". Of all the songs out so far you have 4 that are garbage (Better, Silkworms, Rhiad, Oh My God), 1 that is just average (Chinese Democracy), 2 that are just "good" (Madagascar and IRS) and only one that you can really say is excellent (The Blues).

Doesn't sound like the recipe for a classic album.

Dude, love the name Boner, even if you are dissing me... makes it hard to respond, but...

Look at the other responses. Not everyone agrees with you, as disapointment is apparent in several people on this discussion board. Maybe AXL could add the "Don't Damn Me" ending to each of the new songs... I mean, is it not appropriate to add, "Alright, that sucked!" after "Better?"

stop being a A-hole dumb-ass.......You're the only one who don't like the new song.

This songs have received good feed from fans allover GNR boards....you son must be lonely and sad at the same time!

must suck to be you........don't know how that feels!

now go back in the corner where you came from!

QUESTION FOR ALL: IF THE SONGS SUCKED, WOULD YOU SAY IT, OR CAN AXL DO NO WRONG? be honest

simply have no ear for music all the shit that has been put out the last ten years I think nothing can touch this. Axl is back to take his crown as the graetest front man of all fucking time!!!

I agree

If you are correct, there are about 300,000,000 people in the USA. 300,000 will like the songs, and let's assume they all buy the album. That would be a disapointment... Thank you for shedding light on this!

Maybe AXL and his pop songs can tour with Good Charlotte and make your dreams come true.

lol...there is always one in a thousand that wont like this record...this guy is one of them. It's just his opinion, and quiet frankly who cares?!

The songs are amazing to me....to bad you don't like it!...it's understandable...not everyone will.

Rock on AXL.....you ROCK! rock2

I haven't actually heard the Contraband demos, but your point is well taken.

Yea, Buckhead is amazing. Slash is my fav. guitarist of all time, but Bucket is amazing and unique, and his playing ability is superior to Slash in my view. I would certainly love to see BH back with GNR when they tour next... who knows. Cool stage presense too.

Are there any demos of Madagascar or others out there? I've heard the live stuff, but any studio stuff floating around?

Contraband rocked, and VR was great in concert. Nothing special, just freakin' great, raw rock... Not Appetite or anything, but good hard rock. I just think people get so excited to hear from Axl (as do I, he's the greatest) that whatever he puts out just has to be great... These demos aren't.

This century's rock albums... hmm... certainly nothing that great, some of the top albums of the 2000s have been put out by The Hives, The White Stripes, and Pearl Jam's Riot Act was pretty good. Nothing as good as GnR's previous stuff, for sure.

Have you heard any Contraband demos, they were horrifying! Plus, as much as I like VR, they're very generic hard rock, and Weiland sounds like every second rock singer out there. And VR have proven that Izzy & Axl made GN'R, not Axl & Slash. I love Slash but I can now see that he wasn't all that amazing. Did you see Buckethead (I know he's left the band but...) NAIL Slash's solos during the 02 tour. HELL, I can even say that he did the Nighttrain solo better.

Contraband rocked, and VR was great in concert. Nothing special, just freakin' great, raw rock... Not Appetite or anything, but good hard rock. I just think people get so excited to hear from Axl (as do I, he's the greatest) that whatever he puts out just has to be great... These demos aren't.

This century's rock albums... hmm... certainly nothing that great, some of the top albums of the 2000s have been put out by The Hives, The White Stripes, and Pearl Jam's Riot Act was pretty good. Nothing as good as GnR's previous stuff, for sure.

If I.R.S. is not one of the top 10 tracks, that's cool with me! Like I said, if it is filler, no problem.

I would be flattered to see what you think about Contraband, (or any rock album this century) then, if you call these "Average" and "Weak"

Also, I.R.S isn't even one of the top 10 tracks...

Alright, I realize everyone has a boner over the new songs. While I am excited to hear Axl and am encouraged that Chinese Democracy might actually happen (barring Axl losing his mind and destroying all of the recordings... c'mon, you've thought of the possibility), the songs were nothing special.

Better: Sorry, but this song is weak. The intro sounds like a 13 year old messing on a guitar, and the song is one big pop cliche' lyricaly. The main riff is boring, plain and simple. Axl's voice does sound good, though.

I.R.S.: This one is ok... Another weak intro... Axl sounds ridiculous with the moaning in the beginning, but his singing is pretty cool after that. The shredding solo (Buckethead I assume?) is sweet as hell... too bad he's gone. I think some of the lyrics are pretty lame ("What can I do if I gave my heart to you?") more pop cliche's. I guess I just expect something more poetic and less sounding like it was written for Kelly Clarkson.

I could see I.R.S. on the DaVinci Code soundtrack given the conspiracy theme it seems to have- it would fit the story well.

I guess my bottom line is this: It's cool to hear from Axl, and I.R.S. is pretty good, but if these songs are any more than filler, this album will disapoint. It'll sell well then people will forget about it. I am hoping these are the songs that Axl will be leaving off of it, and we know he has like 30-something recorded for a 12 track album, so they may not be part of CD. I just expect more of him.

Peace,

Screech