Lumikki

19 minutes ago, stella said:

The one thing that makes this even more complicated is that there's a difference between regression therapy and recovering genuine repressed memories. People who have experienced great trauma sometimes *do* block out their experiences, and they filter back in later on in different ways.

Yes, very true and good point. I didn't mean to suggest there is noch such thing as actual repressed memories. Those are a real thing. And this is also the reason why I don't want to completely dismiss the horrible "raped as a baby" story. But considering who Axl's so-called therapists were and the "credentials" they have, I'm leaning more towards something shady going on.

19 minutes ago, stella said:

I've heard stories from Holocaust survivors for instance who blocked out everything that had happened in the camps, but they ended up with some major trauma responses, like being afraid of large dogs (like the attack dogs in the camps), hoarding food and becoming obsessive about washing and staying clean. That's a core part of panic attacks associated with PTSD, too -- the person hears, sees or experiences something that triggers a traumatic memory and their brain and body respond to that as though the threat were happening again, right then and there.

Exactly. While reading Slash's book and the famous story about Axl in the car, I did wonder if there was something specific about being made to apologize that triggered that kind of panic attack/trauma reaction in Axl. Slash even claims he suggested very gently to Axl that he should apologize to his grandmother, but it still was enough to give him some kind of meltdown.

29 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

lets be serious, you're jealous shes got your man Duff

im playing with you

Well, who wouldn't be jealous Duff is literally the only guy out of that bunch that I would actually consider marrying. Seems like the only sane and trustworthy one. Smart, good looking and kind-hearted as well. Can you tell I love Duff?

Thanks for making a thread, Carly!

And who knows, Erin and her kids are already hanging with Slash and Meegan a lot it seems, so it doesn't seem to impossible she'd be around Susan as well sooner or later.

@MillionsOfSpiders : that is Kat, their photographer and just some random woman I think (somebody correct me, if I'm wrong). I don't think that's Sasha. And even if she was, Sasha isn't really Axl's girlfriend anyway. Isn't she more like a paid escort or something? I remember reading she also escorts other famous men in public and she is actually engaged to someone. She also seems to take care of Axl's cats or something? It's all very confusing.

6 hours ago, rock4eva said:

Also regarding Yoda & the stuff he went through in 1998 about having to approve people by looking at photos etc, I was told it was Beta that got him into that. It saddens me if this is true as I like TB and they've certainly turned his life around but that stuff was just crazy. I wonder who the person was that came to spend time with him on Christmas Day when he was living in a shed or similar in a bad way. Would that have been Beta? Also has he confirmed he was actually sexually abused by his stepfather or is it assumed by what he says. My understanding is they all may have been but Axl and Amy are the only ones mentioned in interviews. I find it hard to believe that his bio father who took him when he was 2 also sexually abused him, you'd have to be pretty unlucky to have 2 fathers doing that to you & it was only through the regressive therapy that he said his bio father abused him. Then I look at the family photos of his parents, him & siblings & his Grandmother & wonder why you would be at a family gathering if you were treated the way he was by his step father with the bashings & sexual abuse. Wouldn't you not want to have anything to do with a step father like that? I find it all confusing & him saying he remembers being in the womb & knowing he wasn't wanted is a bit too much for me to believe. Sounds more it was ingrained into his mind during the therapy sessions, John Lennon did the same regressive therapy by Yoko's request & look how hated she was for making him do that. The one thing that stands out is what a beautiful looking man (even you guys say this) with such a talent but such a disturbed mind, even now he doesn't seem to have a steady girlfriend or partner or wife. If he had someone he was in love with it would be all over the internet like his 'date' with Lana Del Ray.

 

Wow, a lot to discuss here

1) I agree, Team Brazil's involvement in all this is the one thing that makes me weary about them as well. I like to think Beta and Co. have been good for him, but this gives me pause.

2) What's the Christmas shed story? I don't think I've ever heard of that one.

3) As far as I know, Axl has never talked about being sexually abused by his stepfather in a public interview, only his biological father. But Tom Zutaut claimed in the recent BBC documentary that Axl told him about his stepfather always taking him to the public toilets of a museum to rape him there. Beta also said he was sexually abused by stepfather in one of these shady old interviews from the early 2000s.

4) Yes, regression therapy to uncover memories is shady as fuck. It is mostly thought to be complete bullshit by actual doctors nowadays. But it was popular around the early 90s, together with the whole 'Satanic Panic' thing. There were a lot of people back then with "uncovered memories" who suddenly thought they had been sexually abused in satanic rituals or by their kindergarden teachers, parents or whatever. It led to a lot of false accusations. Basically, people make up things while under hypnosis (or things are suggestes to them by their "therapists" while under hypnosis) and when they wake up they remember what their mind conjured up and think it's an uncovered memory (This is also where the "remembering things from the womb" thing comes from. Probaly just some other false memory he came up with while with his fake therapists.)

But then there is also this point, which is sadly very true as well:

5 hours ago, stella said:

In terms of Axl's mom getting with two different men who were abusive, and Axl being targeted by both of them? That's not uncommon either. Unless they get help, a lot of people end up going from one abusive relationship to the next. Statistically for instance a lot of people who end up in abusive relationships as adults were abused as children, were abandoned by a parent, or grew up in households where they witnessed domestic violence. The cycle keeps repeating. http://www.domesticviolenceroundtable.org/effect-on-children.html

5 hours ago, stella said:

And kids who are being abused often learn to cover it very quickly and act completely normal, at least outwardly. They smile in photos, hug the abuser in public, and do everything they can to put up a normal facade. They think that if they "behave better" maybe the abuser will stop hitting them. They're told that their families are everything and that they always have to forgive. They are often told that it's all their fault, and they fear what will happen if they tell. Sometimes they HAVE told someone else and nobody's helped them, and they're still forced to be around their abuser.

Axl got away from his stepfather and wanted nothing to do with him when he was an adult who had come to terms with it all -- when his stepfather couldn't hurt him anymore -- and that's pretty much what happens a lot of the time.

Yep. Like I mentioned in another thread, in the 1980s Axl was even still trying to tell himself that things in his family were completely a-okay. He was talking about how his stepfather was his best friend and how they got along great with now. And that he understood why his stepfather was "being so hard on him". A few years later, he was sick of trying to keep up the act and pretening everything was fine.

It's a growing process and it's complex. Most children, even very mistreated ones, have an innate attachment to their parents and this leads to a lot of confusion and mixed emotions.

5 hours ago, stella said:

I have some personal experience with people with eating disorders/mental illness/PTSD. A lot of mental disorders are unfortunately very difficult to treat effectively. Some of it's from abuse and PTSD; some of it is about chemical imbalances in the brain; some of it appears to be from injuries to the brain; some of it is thought to be genetic (like schizophrenia); and some of it is all of the above. If someone has a mental illness there's no shame in it any more than there's shame in having a broken leg or cancer, but there's so much stigma there about it. And unlike that broken leg, there are also so many differences of opinion on how to treat it.

Yes, again it's all very complex unfortunately. I read an article once that talked about how child abuse actually affects the way the brain works and how the various neurological pathways and regions in the brain function. The brains of abused children are actually wired differently than normal in many cases. So this might come into play as well in Axl's case.

6 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

yeah i don't disagree with that but i was just focusing on the school aspect since we were saying he looked like a little nerd

according to Izzy he got allot of shit for being small and didn't get any poon in school hahaha 

Yes, according to Izzy, his teachers and some other people, Axl was a tiny, weird looking kid (these bowl cuts sure didn't help) and he got bullied a lot in school. Which is awful, considering his home life was already so messed up. And then he had a tough time in school as well. Poor kid.

Hah, awesome idea! We really should have a sub-forum or a thread at least specifically for that kind of stuff.

Like a "GnR Gossip Thread" or a "Girl Talk Thread" or something

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Ok.

I don't recall learning about that story from him during a show. I think I read it in some printed interview. Not sure. And didn't even Jimmy Kimmel mentioned part of that story when he interviewed Axl in 2012? I will do a search to refresh my memory.

----

Edit: I just recalled Axl talking about "butt-fucking" during a show in 1991, where he mentions the incident of that guy in Rock In Rio who jumps on stage with his genitals out and grabs Axl from the back, while Axl is wearing a "thong". This is the end of the show. Then bodyguards and Doug Goldstein grab the guy and save Axl, lol.

He talks about it in in the beginning of this video.

Lol yeah, I also remember the Rock in Rio thing. But that was something harmless at least

30 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Ok. If you can give a link to that interview would be nice because I never read about that. I know he's tried to commit suicide with pills but never the other things.

Ah, yeah, I know that story but I never took it as he meant a rape attempt. Just that the guy who picked him up thought Axl accepted to spend the night as a hint for further interaction, lol, but Axl defended himself and got out of that situation pretty quickly.

Much like what could happen to a girl who accepts a ride but women usually never win in those situations

Like I said, Axl's androgynous look and natural beauty must have made him subject of repeated homosexual approaches. I think he's talked about this before but I guess at some point he must have learned how to deal with is because as soon as he arrived to L.A. he started living the night life, which we all know is filled with shady characters and all kind of debauchery.

The places and people GNR interacted with when they started playing bars in L.A. were mostly night life workers, strippers, hookers, musicians, pole dancers, drugaddicts, misfits, drug dealers... I think Axl must have developed some street smartness during those years.

Okay, I'll try to find it. Will have to sleep a couple of hours before that though

Doesn't he literally say something like "I woke up and this guy was trying to fuck me" or something like that? It's been a while since I watched that concert, but I'm pretty sure he says he and the repair man both fell asleep and then Axl woke up because the guy was trying to fuck him. Whether the guy thought Axl had accepted in exchange for "further interaction" doesn't really matter. Trying to force yourself onto a sleeping person who hasn't consented is still rape. Even worse, an under-age person, urgh.

And yes, Axl was a very beautiful and androgynous young lad. Sure to attract all kinds of perverts and creeps, unfortunately.

12 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, those things are not fun to read. But like all the people who have emotional issues or behavioral problems, it usually all stems from having a bad relationship with your parents or being raised the wrong way or not having parents at all.

Axl is the child of a teenager single mom and a guy who was a criminal, zero responsibility or interest in having a family. I think he was very young too.

I believe that babies can sense how fucked up their lives are gonna be even from the womb of their mothers. Axl certainly must have felt he was coming into a shitty world. But the good side of it is what he did with his life. He could have turned out the worst of people but music saved his life and put him in the right path. I admire him for that.

Never heard the story of him cutting himself? Isn't that more like a thing girls did in the 2000's? The emo fad? lol

What is the air conditioning repair man story?

Yes, nothing does more damage to a child than being made to feel unwanted. Add in all the abuse and everything and it's a miracle he came through as intact as he did.

Lots of people who are emotionally hurting engage in self-harming behaviour of some kind. The emo fad just made it into some weird kind of trend/stereotype, I guess. Axl mentioned cutting himself in an old interview once. I think I read it on HTGTH. I can see if I can dig it up.

Told the air conditioning repair man story in the reply to the other poster above. I meant the hitch-hiking rape he talked about.

6 minutes ago, The Garden of Guns N Roses said:

Air conditioning repair man incident? What happened there? 

The story he told during the St. Louis concert and also in some interview, I think. He was 17 or so and hitch-hiking alone. He ended up sleeping in a room with the air conditioning repair man he hitched a ride with and woke up to the guy trying to rape him. The way Axl tells it, he made a heroic (and slightly unrealistic sounding) escape, but who knows what really happened. Either way, it must have been traumatic.

8 hours ago, Frey said:

The elephant in the room, yes. Just how crazy is Axl really? And would we rather the singer of our favorite band be a gullible moron or batshit insane? There are certainly enough people around who've got some "crazy Axl stories" to tell to make him being a being a fry or two short of a happy meal believable.

"Crazy Axl stories". A lot of these stories are told for cheap laughs, but when you think about it, these stories are actually not funny at all. Like the one about Axl jumping out of a moving car that Slash told on a late night talk show and in his book.

Think about it- Axl was literally a kid who started rocking back and forth in his seat and then jumped out of a speeding car when Slash made a gentle suggestion to him. That's pretty extreme behaviour and far removed from normal. And quite concerning. I'm not a psychologist, but I can only guess that actually was some kind of trauma reaction or something. Not very funny at all when you look at it like that.

We also know he was a kid who used to cut himself with razor blades, before he started destroying furniture and stuff instead of destroying his body. He also tried to commit suicide at least once or twice.

And all of this happened before 1990. Axl wasn't "batshit insane". He was a very troubled and obviously hurting kid/young man. One possibly suffering from untreated PTSD or something similar due to his horrific childhood and the other traumatic things that happened to him after he left home (like the air conditioning repair man incident).

In the 90s, he tried to find help to deal with his problems. Unfortunately he seems to have looked in all the wrong places though.

8 hours ago, Frey said:

 

(And Axl's hair is red!  Still is in my opinion..... The weight thing is strange as well. Maybe he has some kind of eating disorder? Rare in men, but still more common than many think...)

He did talk about having a habit of sitting on his ass and eating too much once (in a way that compared it to the drug use of the other guys in the band iirc), but that doesn't really have to mean anything.

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

All I know is that from 1994 until 2006 (more or less) Axl suffered a lot and those years were the worst of his life, from breaking up with several women to losing friends to drugs, his mother death, Losing his whole band and having to start from scratch, lawsuits, counter lawsuits, his 1998 arrest, the whole Chinese Democracy saga, cancelled tours, RIR, fans rejection, etc. etc. It's just too much. Anyone would implode at some point.

Oh I really don't have a theory about it. Like I said, I think he went through a lot of heavy stuff during most of the 90's and until mid 2000s and al this stress could have triggered a vast range of health problems. 

Yes. He once said he was so depressed that he felt like he coudln't leave his house or something. Very sad.

5 minutes ago, maxpax said:

yup. in september 2002 he looked strange again...like he had a twin brother...once again axl looked more feminine and like he had almost no facial hair

 

 

Yes, the complete lack of any hair whatsover on his head except for the braids and artificially colored eyebrows makes him look strange. And he also doesn't often smile that wide, with his gums showing. In addition to the general strange style, this is probably what threw most people off and started the plastic surgery rumors. It's also a bad picture, he looks a bit manic there.

^ He looked quite toned and muscular there. At RIR he was looking a bit pudgy again.

12 minutes ago, stella said:

That's actually the one that really made me wonder if the rumors of his being ill were true. His skin looks almost waxy in that interview, and he's really, really pale (paler than normal).

Yeah, his skin has a really sickly and unhealthly looking tone there. As far as I know there is zero proof of Axl ever having been sick, but that interview certainly made me consider the possibility as well.

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, but I don't wanna speculate and say stuff when I don't really don't know what happened to him

i just know that drastic drops and gains of weight are not a healthy sign...

Yes, I've thought about that before as well. Wanna tell me your thoughts via PM?

6 minutes ago, maxpax said:

He made it. Cause he looked really good in 2006. 

True, in 2006 he looked really good.

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

In 1999 he seems to be extremely thin. Compared to the mugshot of 1998 where he looks fuller. Then again in 2001 he was very big and by 2002 he was thin again.

Those weight fluctuations are telling, IMO.

Yeah, these fluctuations are certainly strange. Telling of what though? Did you have anything specific in mind?

29 minutes ago, stella said:

There was also an unfounded but persistent rumor that he was ill at some point. In some of those early 2000s photos he doesn't seem to have eyelashes, either. There are tons of illnesses and treatments out there that can make a person lose their hair, so that would make sense. So can stress.

I don't think he's had anything other than Botox either, and he may not have even had that. And frankly Botox is so common in showbusiness that it's not even considered noteworthy in any way, and it's temporary. They use it for medical purposes like curing migraines now, too.

The basketball game interview was the most baffling imo. Probably because he not only had no eyebrows/eyelashes but also none of the fine hairs people normally have around their ears and cheeks (sideburns?), which made him look like he was wearing a wig.

39 minutes ago, stella said:

I agree, it's nice to have a lighter tone to this thread.

I like this photo because it shows just how different (Axl's) red hair can look depending on how it's lit. The hair on the half of his head that's turned toward the sun is really bright and looks strawberry blond, but the parts that are shadowed look several shades darker and even close to brown.




Axl's hair looks super bright when he's in the sun:



 

Those are good examples. Some more from those days:

13 minutes ago, Babooshka said:

In all seriousness, what happened to his eyebrows? Here they look thicker and darker. There was a point when it seemed like he'd shaved them off, and since then they've never been the same.

I think this is one of the reasons why people say he doesn't look like himself.

I think they lost their colour and he dyes them nowadays. But the dye just doesn't look quite right.

And yes, eyebrows can change the way you look a lot. But I think the people who keep saying he had plastic surgery and cheek bone implants and god knows what else are completely ridiculous. Axl's face is exactly the same as it always was. He maybe had some chemical peelings or botox in the early 2000s, but that's it imo and that was a long time ago.

Exactly the same face in 2006 as in 1994.

2 hours ago, stella said:

Plus red hair often has a tendency to look very different under different lighting conditions and has a tendency to lighten in the sun.

Very true, red hair can look totally different depending on the lightening, the picture, and a million other reasons. And yes, I'm gonna continue the hair colour discussion because this thread is depressing and makes me feel sad for Axl. It can use some levity and some nice pictures.

I actually really like how Axl's hair always looks slightly different in colour, but always very nice.

Killuridols already posted some blond-ish Axl, so let's have some typical bright ginger Axl:

More brown-ish red looking:

Close-up from 1994:

That's a dull red in the first picture, not blond (at best it could maybe be called strawberry-blond, but it's too red even for that imo). When Axl was younger, it was really really red, but most most people with red hair lose that bright red hair with age. I agree that it's starting to become slightly blond nowadays though. He seems to be losing the red pigment in his hair now. I'm guessing it will become blonder and blonder and finally turn white.

(Sorry for the hair rant, but a family member is a hair stylist and I'm forced to hear a lot about hair and various hair shades and all that jazz thanks to that )

39 minutes ago, Kira said:

Yes, when I like a celebrity or entertainer, I'm interested in their whole life, what makes them tick. Axis life is pretty interesting and Erin was a big part of the GnR lore. So yeah, I'm interested. This is why biographys sell people!

Same. If I weren't interested in them as people as well, I would never have read Slash's or Duff's book, for example. I didn't buy these books hoping to read about the technical details of their playing or their equipment or whatever, but to read about them as the people they are, their story, their point of views on certain things, etc.

5 minutes ago, Babooshka said:

The elephant in the room has always been Axl's mental health.

Not that I'm faulting him or anything, it's a complicated issue made even more so when there's a lack of proper treatment.

I think he was desperate and unwell. These people took advantage.

Yes, exactly. Most likely explaination imo.

3 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

That girl he dated sure had a whole lot more to do with the songs we love than Melissa Reese, Chris Pitman, etc, etc.

Exactly. I'd much rather talk about Axl and Erin than Chris Pitman or Melissa Reese or how many copies CD really sold. I couldn't care less about Pitman or sales statistics for CD, but I don't go into these threads complaining about the people who do enjoy talking about these things. To each their own.

Dumb was maybe a bit harsh of a word to use, but I still think you have to be either incredibly naive or incredibly desperate to end up in the clutches of frauds like the Maynards, the fake psychologist from the Dont Cry video, and so on. It mostly just makes me feel sad for Axl. He must have been miserable. Hope he is in a better place nowadays. It seems as if he is.

3 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

that's it I am ordering the Duff book today. thanks! I was waffling on which to buy first, you just helped me decide

Duff's first book is great. It's more about his life and his struggle with addiction though than about GnR and the guys in it. His second book is nice as well, but mostly stuff he's written already in his news paper columns.

Slash's has more stuff about GnR and the band members in it and is more of a typical Rock n Roll biography.

19 minutes ago, dalsh327 said:

You've never been to a church service where people were speaking in tongues and rolling around in the ground because they had demons in them, and there was a lot of tax-free money to be made. Sam Kinison and Marjoe Gortner talked all about it years ago.

Thankfully this kind of thing doesn't exist where I live (the Catholic Church is bad enough), but I've seen it on TV and Youtube. That's exactly the kind of weird shit Axl grew up with. I probably learned about 'speaking in tongues' and all that stuff from Axl talking about it actually. Crazy.

3 minutes ago, Inglorious said:

Its symbolism. The "exorcism" probably was in a way as well.

Yes, I know. Doesn't make it any less ridiculous to me or less of a rip-off though.

No, I've never met anyone involved, but a lot of people who were there back then (like Duff and many others) have and they seem to have felt the same way (Duff actually talked about this in his book iirc and called them 'predatory'). Considering this and everything else I've heard, I don't feel like giving these people the benefit of doubt.