blackvelvet

In my view, the only reason they said that it will be released this year is to sell concert tickets. There will be no album release - this whole facade was designed for a final cash grab on the gnr name. After this - gnr is over. Axl and co. has destroyed gnr, his own career and the bands careers. Robin, Tommy Richard etc - they will foever be tied to this horrible debacle and forever ridiculed.

I thought it was the best thing since Xmas when all this new downloading copyright music came in.

Finally the overpaid music industry has to work hard and try and make an honest dollar. Finally it differentiates the money whores from the true artists - the ones who are really there for the music.

But I bet Axl will try almost everything to stop people burning Chin Dem. See he used to hate people taking his picture and making money off him. This is far worse - and I will be laughing my ass off if he fails. Cause Im sorry but he deserves it. He has been overpaid and overrated for years. Time he knew what it is to be blue collar.

40 bucks for a sweat tainted second hand piece of shit! What a rip off!

FINALLY it's been updated with the cancellation - lets just hope some poor souls who dont search GNR forums didn't buy tickets whilst the page hadn't updated.

So for over two weeks we've had a picture of Axl flicking the bird with a message "GNR cancels Portland" - two weeks later it goes from that, straight to "GNR cancels show" seriously, fucking brilliant PR guys, well done, pat on the backs all round!

Seriously Merck, did someone leave the sixteen year old, weekend temp. in charge of 'Guns N' Roses PR and IT Management' and forget about them?

May I suggest some time for 'asset management'?

*shakes head in disbelief*

PS - On a lighter note - PC and MM are back up! B)

I agree, Subs. This is absolutely ridiculous and very unprofessional.

Fears started creeping in for me in regards to that site when they promised us "exclusive video," then changed it from "Tuesday" to "coming soon," and then removed it without a "sorry" or any type of an explanation.

That's just poor - and there's no excuse for it. If that's how they want to treat their fans, so be it - but then don't bitch when the fans bitch about certain aspects of the band. They're not exactly doing their utmost to improve relations with fans, are they?

Very, very unprofessional. Merck should hire someone to take care of the Internet since he and Axl seem to loathe it so much. Hire someone who actually values the importance of the Internet in terms of fans and promotion.

I lost a respect when they posted that Del James article critisizing people on the internet...and posted it on a website. and his last quote about disconnectiong from the net and re-connectiong with the world...You just don't put something like that on the internet.

I know Matt13 always gets upset when I mention the Del James article, but I still think it was very poor of them to post that. I do understand that they weren't complaining about ALL the Internet fans, but they still made some assumptions that I didn't appreciate. I felt like he had written it because Axl was pissed off at all the people on the Internet bitching about stuff. It was like a propaganda message or something. And it was preceded by an Axl rant at a show about the Internet fans complaining about the setlist, and then Merck mentioned this again after the article had been posted.

I agree that people who bitch about setlists are annoying, but I still disagree with the overall message of that article.

I think any other band would consider themselves blessed to have such a committed fanbase, especially after leaving for so many years.

At least people are bitching. You know you're at least still relevant when people CARE enough to bitch.

Axl should count his blessings instead of looking at the glass as half-empty. Imagine if people cared so little that they didn't even bother bitching about the setlist - and didn't even bother contributing to an Internet forum dedicated to the band.

Exactly. If he didnt have those fans he would only be fucking 2 dollar whores - not supermodels, and wearing clothes from thrift shops - not 2000 dollar versace jackets and huge motherfucker rings on his fingers.

He needs to realise that one of the reasons hes still performing today is because of that loyal fanbase.

Hes not only fucking up his career - hes fuckign up his bandmates careers. I feel sorry for those guys they must feel constantly stuck in purgotory.

I can't, for the life of me, understand how people continue to believe that with zero promotion Axl and the record company will release an album that cost 15 million dollars to produce sometime in the next 5 weeks.

I keep hearing people makes half-thought-out reasons why no promotion will work, but it won't. But here's the real concern for me.

To even turn promotion on quickly, some stuff has to be planned weeks in advance...ads need to be created, promotional materials need to be developed, media would be informed...etc. If anything were taking place behind the scenes, a leak or two would spring up...The Axl lites on this board think Axl is a genious and has found a way to eilminate inner leaks...but truthfully, I think everyone on this board knows that nothing has leaked because nothing has been going on.

It's almost comical that we are still holding onto 2006 at this point. There has to be a reason why Axl isn't even mentioning the album at concerts...and it can't be good.

What's going on?

Are you trying for Xozihood..??

i guess "THE GUITAR" differs from person to person....i stick with fender and gibson personally. although when it comes to fender it's much cheaper and satisfying to put one together out of spare parts. my friend just built a tele for 700 bux that would go for 2000 if fender had actually made it....

at this point i think people go for les pauls b/c they're iconic and that kinda have that sound/feel.....some people just like gibsons, ya know? finck always had a les paul or les paul type guitar in NIN if i remember correctly....guess he's just a gibson guy....

you're absolutely right about fenders... i built a jazz bass last summer that simply EATS anything that would come close in price (600-700 bucks at the end of the day). and i guess the gibson thing is what it is ::

But, again, Gibson, like any other company, is going to pay special attention to a guitar being prepared for a pro musician.

the thing that irritates me is that it's not personally prepared (at least production models) for a pro musician and you can get stuff that truly is for less money. whatever, i'll stop posting in this thread now

Is that you in your avatar?

Yay for the mystery man Robin!

I know this is crazy and silly but Im bored so dont flame me...

Maybe Far Downs - Blue Tree's and Green Grass is an anagram for something.

i wouldn't miss robin one bit, ron and fortus crush him in every aspect, ESPECIALLY songwriting.

Piss off...'Better' is one of the best new songs and Robin wrote that. The material hasnt been released yet and always already got one winner.

Hes had no solo project because Chinese Democracy is it. Its what hes been working on for 9 years. I think from what weve heard Robins has oodles of talent already.

Pfft Robin is the sweetest to his fans. He is a really good guy - he does have a firey streak to him though. But the way he comes across on his website - he cares you know. I dont think he would of done that to the guitar tech unless he really deserved it.

*kisses the wall of mygnrforum.com*

I am so glad to have this place. A true gnr fan has a mind of their own.

"It is our opinion that they are going out of their way to target and single out GUNS N' ROSES and the band's loyal fans"

Yeah that's right, the fire marshals have a grudge against GNR. That REALLY sounds plausible.

Are you being sarcastic? Do you remember St. Louis 1991? Probably not. Here's the short version.

A security guard DELIBERATELY ignored Axl's orders just to piss Axl off. This was proven in a court of law when Axl was not found to be responsible for one of the biggest riots in Rock History. (The security guard was)

I'm Rick James Bitch

Hahaha thanks Id never seeen that. However it justs proves Axl is a fucking little diva and just creates bad things whereever he goes and its 100% his own fault. I mean the guy took a PICTURE. He wasnt carrying a knife or a gun - he was carrying a camera because Axl doesnt want the 'little guy' to make any money off him.

Jesus so a fire marshall (whose main job is to put out fires not install regulations for concerts) and that security guy at At ST Louis both have it in for Axl Rose even though they are completely different people from completely different towns. WHo else has it in for him? Steph Seymour? Erin Everly? Duff Mckagan? Slash? Buckethead? Oooh and all us internet losers are just completely out to ruin Axl and make his life a living hell. Nothing is ever the mans fault.

And btw maybe Axl doesnt treat these guys with any respect. Maybe he just tells em what to to do like he did that security guy at St Louis. If I had of been that guy and Axl had spoken to me like that - like a nazi I would of gone and told him to learn his P's and Q's. Or go fuck a tree and die.

You have a point mate. I think if it were the old band we would have more faith in them succeeding and being accepted in the music world. This new band has so much going against them - it is hard to stay postive.

do i really need to change the title?are you that immature? it's not like the title is going to lead to a herpes scare

The title says "Chinese Democracy Nov. 21st (This Year) OFFICIAL.

Official? Yeah you heard it off some random radio station.

Dont be a douchebag. Just change it.

*kisses the wall of mygnrforum.com*

I am so glad to have this place. A true gnr fan has a mind of their own.

"It is our opinion that they are going out of their way to target and single out GUNS N' ROSES and the band's loyal fans"

Yeah that's right, the fire marshals have a grudge against GNR. That REALLY sounds plausible.

Its funny how Merck and that say "we just doing something positve and boo fucken hoo all the internet people wanna ruin that". I always get the idea that they think they are doing everyone including the fans THE BIG FAVOUR. Like we are the lucky ones and we owe them big time for blessing us with their holy presence. Thats what Ive always thought of Axl anyhow.

And why does this always seem to happen to GNR? This 'outagetme' paranoia seems to come from only one person.

Im sorry I dont mean to be negative - but I was ALWAYS positive in the past but I guess the years of having your hopes bulit up and then being disappointed kinda makes you neurotic.

Axl needs to take a page out of Robins book on how to treat his fans.

Del made himself out to be an arse. Like preaching to us that we need to reconnect to life - when its him and Axl that need to - like for example saying we shouldnt be coming to the concerts if we are not prepared for an all nite party - hello we have jobs and familys and stuff - REAL LIFE stuff Del or did you forget. And um, when did standing around for hours become an all nite party? And I dont ever remember GNR playing ALL NIGHT.

Europeans are more intelligent too...only in USA would Bush be re-elected

Bush has brought low taxes, low unemployment and high economic growth. Europeans vote for leaders who have given them high taxes, high unemployment and stagnent economic growth. GO EUROPE!!!

I can't believe this... I'm agreeing with Takeshi on something else again... that's two days in a row! Anyway, agreed Takeshi. Thanks for bringing out some truth for these morons to feast their eyes on. If you're a Bush basher, do us all a favor and say something other than he's 'a dumbass' or 'a moron'. Because if you're just saying that because that's what you read in liberal papers (do any of you bashers know the difference between a liberal and a conservative?), hear on Letterman or on CNN, you're about as dumb as you claim the leader of the free world to be.

That's why you, Bush basher, are flipping burgers and part of the rat race, and he's the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

My taxes are lower, unemployment rates in the US are at an all time low, the United States economy is at an all time best (which supports the world economy) and is the strongest in the world, this last quarter in the US has seen an influx of American jobs rise higher than at any time since FDR's 'New Deal' (which brought the world out of a depression), and that cowboy is taking the fight to our enemies and has the balls to do what UN is afraid to. Trains blow up in Spain and France gets threatened, and they put their tail between their legs and run. Well, my president doesn't... neither does a one Tony Blair (bless him).

So, Bush has everything on the up-an-up. Now, tell me why he's a dumbass? If your only claim would be Iraq, Bush bashers, that even proves how uneducated you are on that topic and how naive you are to believe everything you read in the papers or see on the news.

Heres some facts that you need to know about your precious President as well:

National debt under Bush Jr. has increased so drastically that the average

American's estimated share of the national debt will be an astronomical $24,00

compared to $500 when Dubya first took office.

Under Bush Jr. there are now 43 million Americans with no health insurance

Responsible for and unemployment rate of 6%. There are now 9 million people

out of work in America-3.3 million more than when Bush took office.

He cut health care benefits for veterans.

Bush Jr. Deserted his unit during vietnam and was reportadely AWOL for over a

year from his assigned unit: The Texas Air National Gaurd, or as its referred to

by other military outfits, "The Champagne Division".

Despite a 13% unemployment rate among those aged 16-24, Bush Jr. Proposed to

eliminate youth oppertunity grants-A program provides job training to the

nations youth. A $225M program in 2002 is now being done away with so Bush can

have more money for Iraq.

He cut funding for 375,000 low income college students and reduced pell grant

amounts to such a severe degree that it effectively caused 84,000 students to no

longer be eligible for pell grants. Pell amounts have been overall reduced for

1.5 million students... its safe to say that the Bush daughters aren't eligible

for financial aid, so this won't affect the opulent lives of anyone Bush Jr. may

know.

Withdrew from the international criminal court.

First president in U.S history to refuse United Nations election inspectors

(during the US 2002 elections) .

All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign

donations.

His proposed "free trade" agreements would result in the loss of U.S. jobs

to foreign markets and the exploitation of third world workers.

Wasted federal resources on a PR trip to Baghdad where he staged a

Thanksgiving meal at 6am with troops that were screened based on thier political

affiliation. And the Turkey? It was a prop.

After sending troops off to fight in an unjust unprovoked war, he still has

yet to attend any soldiers' funerals.

He dropped his dog on its head.

Want more?

Ok as Del said - if the internet losers are such a pathetic minority that arent even worth caring about then how come it was so easy for Axl to notice the crowds of people singing the new songs that were leaked online?

Yeah so those 'downloading motherfuckers' and 'internet losers' are going to the shows. And I think they are important to the GNR fanbase.

I didn't vote in this poll - but I would like to add a few comments.

First, I've always admired Del. I think he's a great writer (judging from his rock columns in the past and his "Language of Fear" book), and normally really enjoy reading his work. *I think he forgot to use spell checker in this particular column, but that's beside the point.*

While I agree with the general spirit of the article, I disagree with some of the points he made.

First, I found it rather lame that he would defend GNR being constantly late by claiming that "This is supposed to be an all night party. When the f*ck did rock n' roll -- and the last time I checked rock music was supposed to be a non-conformist, rebellious, art form -- get a Flavor Flav-sized time clock wrapped around its neck like a hangman's noose? Rebellion and punctuality do not go hand in hand and for those of you too young to remember, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin rarely went on before midnight in their hey day.... ".... Well, the Stones don't show up hours late today, Del. They respect their aging fans, who they recognize have jobs to do in order to pay the rent. And sorry to point out the obvious Del - but GNR are NOT rebel rocker kids still in their heyday. They don't have an album on top of the billboard charts -- they're a band of grown men trying to make a comeback. And I just don't think it's smart for the band to disrespect the diehard fans who have struck with them all these years by showing up late at virtually every single show.

While it doesn't bother me personally - I know it's very difficult for fans who have jobs, wives and children at home that they have to think about when taking time off work to see a GNR show. I think the band needs to be more respectful and cognizant of this. This isn't a tough concept to grasp.

Second, Del says "a rock band has to do certain things in order to be prepared to hit the stage." Yes, this is a true. And it's up to the band members to get to the venue early enough in order to prepare themselves. And if that means coming home from a party at 3am instead of 5am in order for them to get to the venue earlier, then so be it. This is their responsbility - and one that should be taken seriously.

I think it's time you and your pals plugged into the real world - and discovered the way real people work and live their lives - rather than living in a sheltered, fan-paid, fantasy party subsidized by the fans. Just my 2 cents. Sorry to be harsh - but I find it really arrogant and disrespectful for you to rip into diehard fans - most of whom have been going to the shows and have been coming to this forum to support the band for years! I suggest you get a reality check before reaming the fans again.

Hey Madison tell me - youve seen NIN live right? Did they ever come on late? Because its funny - I think this whole lateness thing is all Axl and not the other band members. He did with the old band and now this one. But its funny how his friend is saying its everyone in the band who contributes to taking to the stage late.

Its kind of sad that some of you act like Axl is in the room with you as you type and you dare not risk saying anything out of line.

He is ALL of our favorite singer. Doesn't mean I have to be a stepford cheerleader.

Like Del said, feel free to unplug and re-join reality. You guys are whining about music and setlists at concerts THAT YOU'RE NOT EVEN AT!!! You get personally offended and get your little feelings hurt like my little 8 year-old nephew when his mom says "No more candy". In the grand scheme of things, Chinese Democracy is totally inconsequential. If you get all fired-up and bent out of shape or upset because you feel Axl owes you something, then frankly, you're a loser without an adequate, mature sense of priority. Step away from the computer for a few weeks and re-assess what's going on in your life.

Dude, your the one with over 6000 posts - and your the one saying unplug and reassess life?

Yo. So Slash is and was the fucking man. Im pissed hes not in GNR any more, but I can appreciate Robin for what he is, and I like his style. Hes not the same as slash in any right. Hes probably not as good a composer, and his laid back, groovy style seems out of place sometimes. but slash never really played in time with the music either. he had his fuckin blues groove that just worked. and i think fink works too. i miss slash sure as hell, but finks fucking cool too, and I cant wait to see him rock out in baltimore on the 13th. Slash has the personality that rockz, and fink has one too. i dont see why all you slashites, and all us axlfanz cant get the fuck along. we all want amazing rock music, and this band is trying to give it to us. they dont got shit against us. theyr trying to make a living, and tryin to have fun while they do it. so lets all enjoy the new linup, and pay our dues to Slash aka God and Fink. They both have their place in history, and i can appreciate them both.

Lets all get along, and cheer this band as they release the album. If we dont, noone will, and they end up in shitland with fucking panick at the cocksucking disco and all those other shitters.

Great post dude. 100% right.

If people love Finck so much, then why do so many wish that it was either Ron or Richard playing lead?

But people DO love Finck. All 100 of them on Jim Bob's forum.

Well Im sure Slash had even less fans than that before his first album release (AFD).

These fans have come about because of the great live performances Finck has done.

You're an idiot.

Uh why are we resorting to name calling.

You tell us "robin fans" that we always jump on you for criticising him - but its really you guys who are being bullies.

If people love Finck so much, then why do so many wish that it was either Ron or Richard playing lead?

But people DO love Finck. All 100 of them on Jim Bob's forum.

Well Im sure Slash had even less fans than that before his first album release (AFD).

These fans have come about because of the great live performances Finck has done.