ffrankwhite

recently rewatched:

Murphys Law

Messenger Of Death

Let Him Have It

I think we can make meanings out of it and it stimulates creativity but not sure if it became a language in which to communicate. Actually I think it can but it just isn't.

Languages are man made y'know...what we do with them is up to us. its like how languages are like...or some would say they're confused and perverted by people who employ slang and stuff when its simply not true, these things get uploaded into socially acceptable ways of speaking, its just that theres always a few stuffed shirts that get their purist panties in a knot. im not saying that there should be a lack of respect of the power and historical validity of language, more an understanding of our own personal power over our modes of communication. after all, they're ours.

People are terrified of that kind of change, thats why this shit can't be seen through. its a helluva lot y'know, communication, language, the nature of our perception. fucking with shit like that, you dont know where it could/can lead. I dont think we're ready for it...and we wont be for centuries. i mean just think of the implications of all of that.

But really that's not what art is, or should be - that's propaganda.

How'd you mean?

I would say, cut ups or stream of consciousness seems like it could open up people more.

and that, THAT is really fucking important. i mean, we're talking about one person doing it...and look at what it instigated or...y'know, its sort of taken its place in the sort of chain of human invention. its been invaluable really and all the more pronnounced instances of it being used have pretty much been a sort of dabbling (Paul McCartney in Tommorow Never Knows, that was as a direct result of living with or near Brian Gysion and as such being in the company for Burroughs, for whatever short period of time).

Whatever, point being, people need to be opened up, not just by some sort of cut up fascism, im talking about all avenues. i've met loads of people like you that have said that cut ups would open up more yet no one seems to wanna put in the work to see it through. and hey, why should they if they dont wanna?

i just, i dunno a lot of this is sorta directed at myself i guess, i have this dilletante thing of being like "oh, thats interesting...and that....and that and that and that" y'know and never following through on shit..

Yeah I understood his techniques of cut ups and I sort think it's sort of old idea - Cobain used cut ups on In Utero - it's sort of what art students do. But Burroughs did it first.

I prefer his target paintings I think Ralph Steadman guy made up some targets and Bill took shots at them and then put them in a gallery.

"Beware of whores who say they don't want money. The Hell they don't. What they mean in that hey want more money much more."

I think the cut up technique defeats the idea of the novel as entertainment - if it's not that then it's like Brechtian technique to reveal some political truth or fact.

It's like Lynch, watch enough times and it pretty simple story of a girl who comes to hollywood, the story is the same, plot is way insane.

But does incomprehensibility make it art?

I say this with a straight face.

its only incomprehensible because you allow it to be, or we allow it to be. Its a better understanding or an elevated understanding of human perception. our perception isnt linear, thoughts dont occur to us in a linear fashion any more than our responses to those thoughts/acts/actions. And the whole idea is that, it isnt incomprehensible, is it? i mean, people get it, its informs and has informed artists and their art no end. and you've gotta understand that this is JUST Burroughs, one person employing this technique (im aware that others have dabbled therein but the whole concept of it being a "New Way" necessitates a lot more commitment to the notion to see it through) linear narrative is essentially a human creation...cut ups is a closer reflection of the core of our perception and the WAY in which we realise things...the very nature of our creativity if we allow it.

im not saying everyone should drop their shit and pick up cut ups, just saying that to see through an idea thats scope is so grandiose, thats the sort of thing thats required, not that it should or will ever happen.

The First Third by Neal Cassidy - thats the title? Is it his biography?

autobiography

I read that Kerouac may have trascribed Nake Lunch for Borroughs making it publishable

y'hear these things, dont you? who knows how true any of it is, i dont think its very, considering all the stuff Burroughs pumped out later..

I like his image style but his books aren't very readable - if you read them in his voice they are funnier but still not entriely sure what is going on. I suppose you become part of the fiction like an experiment and just go with it.

This was initially what makes Burroughs the best of that bunch for me. because i just couldn't understand it yet i was just so drawn by the little that i did understand that i just committed myself to reading it intensively and the more i did that it was like "ahh, i can see what he's doing here". i still dont pretend to understand and grasp every single bit of it, its satirical in places, an example of the power of the collage (or cut ups if you will) and some glaring parrallels between that and human perception itself, y'know, the flow of conciousness...it very much mirrors the cut up technique or rather the resultant product

Desolation Angels, no question

Pic isnt about the black jazz chick, pic is the one about the little boy whoose brother comes to the deep south to pick him up and take him to New York and start a new life, the one you're thinking about is The Subterraneans

Doctor Sax - now that's just wrong!

it isssss not its funky

But I can't get into the Chelsea Hotel stuff. all that smack it's just not glamorous!

It's like what Andy Warhol said is cool but the Factory was a depressing shit house!

the distinction is thus:

Theres a certain bent glamour to the whole thing, yes but...to live it is something else altogether. Depends really, depends on your prespective, i like the idea of the factory y'know, these very dispossessed decadent dandies waking up in stilettoes every morning, tweakin offa fuckin sulphate and trying their best to become a junkie but, like all good people that were in and around that scene, its something to dabble in, to sample, in a dilletante sense because living it is sort of...empty. there has to be something to you, its very difficult to sustain yourself trying to live art as opposed to create it. But more power to ya if you can manage it

Sort of what I mean I like the idea of it and the concepts but actually living a cupboard and living on acid and heroin - I don't know. Sounds cool but I'm happy with my Pot Noodle.

Doctor Sax - I think I read 3 times and I get the basic idea but everytime I read it's like what's going on!

I think I go Subterreans mixed up with Pic. I get Dharma Bums mixed up with Desolation Angles as well - maybe Kerouac wrote Naked Lunch, I'm not sure.

I've actually seen the original scroll of On the Road - in NY museum it's like giant bog roll about the size of a football.

I had a totally different perspective when I read them than I do now. I think I prefer Off The Road by Cassidy's wife - more of a biography of them alcos with typewriters.

check out the first third by neal cassady, you'll like it and funnily enough, Kerouac did come up with the title for Naked Lunch

Saw Click with some mates last night. Very meh.

i like it, i think its cute

Desolation Angels, no question

Pic isnt about the black jazz chick, pic is the one about the little boy whoose brother comes to the deep south to pick him up and take him to New York and start a new life, the one you're thinking about is The Subterraneans

Doctor Sax - now that's just wrong!

it isssss not its funky

But I can't get into the Chelsea Hotel stuff. all that smack it's just not glamorous!

It's like what Andy Warhol said is cool but the Factory was a depressing shit house!

the distinction is thus:

Theres a certain bent glamour to the whole thing, yes but...to live it is something else altogether. Depends really, depends on your prespective, i like the idea of the factory y'know, these very dispossessed decadent dandies waking up in stilettoes every morning, tweakin offa fuckin sulphate and trying their best to become a junkie but, like all good people that were in and around that scene, its something to dabble in, to sample, in a dilletante sense because living it is sort of...empty. there has to be something to you, its very difficult to sustain yourself trying to live art as opposed to create it. But more power to ya if you can manage it

The Future, Waiting For the Miracle, Everybody Knows, First We Take Manhattan.

I actually got his new one, 10 New Songs - A Thousand Kisses Deep - not so doomy as before.

I think it's an example of Entry-ism - especially his famous songs they are pop but with political lyrics.

I think he tries to be monk nowadays - like he mediatates on a mountain for 6 months - then comes down to booze for a few months with Charlie Sheen.

Very Desolation Angels

I like a lot of his early stuff, So Long Marianne, Bird On A Wire etc

I like him, I've got I'm Your Man around here somewhere but never checked out anything else.

The Future is probably like...among the best set of lyrics ever committed to song.

The Stone Killer is another good one from the 70's.

Frank, I've never heard that Bronson was in an Elvis movie. The boxing one was called Hard Times.

Wasted, I think I know the movie you're talking about but I forget the title. Was Telly Savalas in it?

The Stone Killer is a fucking great movie, Martin Balsams in it (Arbogast from Psycho for anyone needing a reference)

Wasted is talking about The Family i think and yeah Charles Bronson and Elvis were in Kid Galahad together

You should check out Murphy's Law and The Evil That Men Do. Mr Majestyk and The Mechanic are two of his all time best from the 70's but I'm guessing that you've already seen those. I went through a phase where all I watched was Charles Bronson movies.

me too man, BIG fucking fan, i mean seriously big fan (i dont weigh a lot over 100 lbs) but yeah i see all of those movies man. Mr Majestyk is fucking incredible, so's Murphys Law, all of that...ever see Streetfighter?? or Kid Galahad i think it was, the one with Elvis? Rumor has it he and the king had some troubles during filming, that'd be a fight to see huh?? but yeah, love all of that shit, even a lot of his lesser known roles. Vera Cruz etc. he played a lot of indians in westerns, sorta like John Saxon for a while.

10 Before Midnight - Charles Bronson

Kinjite (Forbidden Subjects) - Charles Bronson

Those are a couple of sweet movies. Cannon Pictures and Bronson kick ass. I like it when Bronson makes Duke eat his watch.

"now you're gonna know what it feels like to be one of those little girls"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I wasn't saying I was better than Jay-Z as a person or rock was greater than hip-hop," he said. "I said what I said, and it was wrong, or it was taken wrong, and now all this [media furore]."

i might be setting myself up to look like the most weird psychotic fanboy interview memorising little shitheel this side of the Eminem song Stan but that, that what Noel said is almost a direct quote of John Lennon:

"i wasn't saying that we were better or greater than Jesus as a person or God as a thing or whatever it is. I said what i said and it was wrong or it was taken wrong and now its all this"

its from there

It was meant as a joke. Noel even apparently said it using a fake Liverpool accent.

yeah i wasnt saying it was plaguarism or anything, just an observation

10 Before Midnight - Charles Bronson

Kinjite (Forbidden Subjects) - Charles Bronson

Is it just me, or is there something really pretty and almost...nostalgic sounding about this song?

is that the oddest fuckin statement in the world or what? ALMOST nostalgic sounding?!?! d'ya know what year it is Honks? of course its nostalgic sounding ya limp noodle it was recorded a fuckin age ago...that might have something to do with it.

Unless you mean lyrically or something which again i dont understand cuz the songs talking about the future.

Recently rewatched:

Invocation of My Demon Brother (soundtrack by Mick Jagger)

Lucifer Rising (soundtrack originally meant to be Jimmy Page but was done in the end by Manson Family member Bobby Beausoleil)

Scorpio Rising

Street Trash

Rabbits Moon

"I wasn't saying I was better than Jay-Z as a person or rock was greater than hip-hop," he said. "I said what I said, and it was wrong, or it was taken wrong, and now all this [media furore]."

i might be setting myself up to look like the most weird psychotic fanboy interview memorising little shitheel this side of the Eminem song Stan but that, that what Noel said is almost a direct quote of John Lennon:

"i wasn't saying that we were better or greater than Jesus as a person or God as a thing or whatever it is. I said what i said and it was wrong or it was taken wrong and now its all this"

its from there

Get the fuck out of here...this planets getting weirder n weirder..thats gotta be bullshit..

Arctic Monkeys' nonsense! Get that shitty wannabe indie outta my Bizzle thread

y'know, the more people slag something off the more curious i get

to be honest it all comes off a bit lame and phoney and wannabe american. now Mike Skinner on the other hand, ahhhh, there ya go, authenticity

All the more reason to download Arctic Monkeys first album. Very similar lyrical style to Mike Skinner.

been on the verge of doing so for months funnily enough

to be honest it all comes off a bit lame and phoney and wannabe american. now Mike Skinner on the other hand, ahhhh, there ya go, authenticity

Hank Williams (the original one)

Lefty Frizzell

Jerry Lee Lewis (who is ostensibly a country artist that sorta found his feet in rock n roll)

There are no real snuff movies man, its an urban myth..trust me, i've looked.

They exist..

Serial killer Paul Bernardo had access to one through a guy he knew who was in the army,he was obsessed with it.

It's not something you're going to find on ebay.

wouldn't that be a find? the closest i think i ever came to one was this guy who had a stall at this old movie fair who used to get all these fucked up movies said he COULD get one but as is the case wigh a lot of these things when you're 13/14 whatever, its a bunch of bullshit. a for real snuff movie though, seriously? i dont buy it man but then again who knows...someone in the army huh? well, i dunno, thats not an according to hoyle snuff movie if its just some jarheads filmed some motherfucker they just shot writhing about, assuming thats even the case with the particular instance you're talking about..

I've Men behind the sun.

Have you ever watched The Guinea pig movies? Apparently Charlie Sheen reported them to the MPAA I know people thought it was real not 100% on Sheen reporting it though.

it was Michael Douglas who reported em

@estranged: they do in the ones we're talking about...me and that sick fuck Axl98

Well of course they aren't real and thank god for that!

Cannibal Holocaust

I Spit In your Grave

Irreversible

Salo

Are some that come to mind.

well if they're not real they're not snuff movies, they just ordinary horror flicks...a snuff movie is basically a movie where the motherfuckers really die...paid actors get paid to die on screen. and yeah, i did hear the real animals thing about Cannibal Holocaust. and Men Behind The Sun, which is about like Japanese prison camps and torture and shit apparently uses real dismembered human limbs...allegedly..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093170/

check it out..