Nikki_Sixx

On 30-10-2018 at 9:55 AM, Sydney Fan said:

Didnt know it was the start of the show. Well at least he was jazzing up the setlist abit and changing things compared to the predictable setlist we have now. 

'Garden Of Eden' never opened any of the shows. 'Jungle' was the opener in Austin in '93.  'Garden Of Eden' was played as the second song instead of 'Mr. Brownstone', one of the few times on the whole UYI Tour that 'Brownstone' wasn't played at all.  'Garden Of Eden' was played at least 3 times on the Skin N' Bones Tour in early '93, but only one recording has surfaced (Austin).

On 10-10-2018 at 1:04 PM, Sosso said:

Tommy Stinson, the guy who has inspired your idol Duff McMagan in the early 80's. 

So there will be a thread in the GNR section for the birthday of EVERY musician that inspired Duff Mckagan ?

Tommy who ?

2019 will bring us a 20th anniversary remaster of 'Live Era', for which they will keep Axl's fake vocals, but replace the guitars and bass in the studio.

Frank Ferrari and Richard Forbes will also do their part, replacing the drums and rythm guitars, to add to the fake flavour of the project.

Melissa Ricci will replace all keyboards and Tracy and Roberta's backing vocals.

No one can pinpoint exactly what Dizzy will be doing ... What else is new ....

I wonder what GNR songs they will add to the set this time around, will be great to hear those again with a drummer that actually knows how to play them !

13 hours ago, bUCKETHEAD lAND said:

I don't think there's a finished version, so far (if im correct) we have the pinball version, an instrumetal called 'Meet & Beer Jam', a demo version and the newly released instrumental version on the remaster

There's three known/circulating versions :

- The instrumental Sound City demo from June 5/6 1986 (bootlegged and eventually released on the boxset)

- A live recording from August 23rd 1986 at the Whisky A Go Go (recorded by Marc Canter, bootlegged)

- The UYI sessions rough mix -> longer and with vocals (bootlegged)

The pinball version is just a midi/digitised version, you can't possibly consider that a 'song'.

There's bound to be more recordings (live, rehearsal, studio ?) but they are not circulating.

On 16-8-2018 at 1:22 AM, tkarmy said:

Can you imagine Izzy playing This I Love or There was a Time.... he's not there because he probably only wanted to play stuff that he was on, there was no big payoff and the whole thing kinda is a circus

oh, so you mean he only wanted to play ACTUAL GNR SONGS ?

7 hours ago, Sosso said:

Maybe because they kept the arrangements from the AfD days? This song was already performed live in '86,'  '87.

No it was not.

21 minutes ago, ironmt said:

No need to spell anything out, you can't seem to get your own story straight.  Did you say the following?

The '02 tour was SELLING POORLY and cancelled half-way ...  '06 and '07 were successful.

I asked you to go back and view the numbers from 02 that you claim were unsuccessful and take a look at the numbers from the 06-07 tour that you claimed was successful.

How did the numbers compare on the U.S. run?

The fact of the matter is, I am not a fan of Axl's solo project or the Chinese Democracy album, but there Is no sense In distorting the truth and claiming that Axl didn't have a successful solo run. 

Furthermore,  being that Axl, Slash and Duff all get along why would Axl continue to tour solo to a crowd of 8,000-10,000 people when he can play to 30,000-40,000 people? Just because he wasn't filling stadiums on his solo run doesn't mean he wasn't successful, I'm glad you were finally able to acknowledge that fact, something you weren't willing to do In previous posts. Do you believe that Slash and Duff had successful solo careers?

I have never seen Appetite For Democracy and have no plans to, how was It? Enjoy Saskatoon, I will be watching Argentina 92. 

By the way, just curious, have you actually ever seen the real Guns N Roses live? Any shows from 1987-1993?

 

 

No, I have never ever seen the real Guns N Roses.  I apologize.  I obviously have no right to speak about these matters.  You win !

22 hours ago, ironmt said:

Really? You better do some simple math and compare the shows that were played In 2002 that you claim was canceled due to poor ticket sales to the 2006-2007 run in the U.S. that you claim was successful. How do the numbers compare?

So Axl started his solo career(Chinese Democracy Tour) In 2001 and the tour went on and off for 10 years until 2011, but was unsuccessful? Is that what you are saying? Do you think that Axl and the band made a profit from 2001-2011?

 

 

 

I never said the '02 tour was cancelled due to poor ticket sales  (although I think Clear Channel would have a few things to say about that), Axl did that all on his own !

Since you can't seem to understand exactly what I'm saying, I'll spell it out for you : 

- The Axl Rose solo band tour didn't last from '01 to '11, they merely toured for most of '06 and '10, half of '12, and only a few months each in '02, '07, '11, '13 and '14.  OUT OF A GRAND TOTAL OF 15 YEARS !!!

- The Axl Rose solo band tours were successfull here and there (riding on the name of a different band), granted, but for the most part they were NOT.  In the eye of the general public, they were 15 wasted years.

- If the Axl Rose solo band was THAT profitable, don't you think they'd still be going ?

Anyway, if you're gonna start twisting my AND your own words, we'll end the discussion here.  Have fun with your 'Appetite For Democracy' dvd, I'll be watching 'Saskatoon '93' again ! 

15 hours ago, ironmt said:

So by your own admission Axl toured for 13 years. Regardless of whether it was 10 , 20 or 30 years, how does that change the facts presented In the post? Were the tours before the Chinese Democracy album successful? How about after the album but before the reunion?

Successful ?  The '02 tour was selling poorly and cancelled half-way ...  '06 and '07 were successful, yet the promise of an album turned out to be a lie, and the public quickly returned to their negative stance toward fake GNR.

After the release of the album they toured succesfully in '10 and '11, by '12/'13 they were downsizing the venues in the US due to lack of interest, still trying to ride on name alone elsewhere ...  It all ended with mere Vegas residencies by '14 ...

I think you have a VERY optimistic view of Axl's solo success !

On 24-7-2018 at 11:19 PM, ironmt said:

Absolute nonsense In regards to your assumption regarding the reunion. The band was touring successfully long before reconciliation was considered. They were  touring Chinese Democracy 8 years before the album was even released with one original member. In other words the bands touring success was based on albums that were released 17-21 years prior, so how exactly did releasing a new album(Chinese Democracy) elevate the band or benefit them In anyway?  Even If Axl didn't want to release an album at this point, so what. That Is his choice and he Is doing quite well financially on this "endless tour" just as he was for the 20+ years before Slash and Duffs return.

 

 

Oh really ?  Touring for 8 years before CD was released ?  I can only remember him 'touring' in '02, and then again in '06 and some of '07.  That's about it ...

Also, 20+ years ?  Axl first solo show was '01, and his last solo show was mid '14, hardly 20+ years ...

Officially released b-sides missing from the AFD boxset :

1. Mr. Brownstone [alt. mix]

2. Welcome To The Jungle [All Dayparts edit]

3. Sweet Child O' Mine [All Dayparts edit]

4. Welcome To The Jungle [CHR edit]

5. Sweet Child O' Mine [edit]

Known/circulating Demos missing from the AFD boxset :

1. Welcome To The Jungle
2. Anything Goes
3. Don't Cry
4. Back Off Bitch
5. Think About You

1-5: Mystic Sound Studio, Selma Avenue, Hollywood, CA 90028, August 1985.

6. Nice Boys [alt. take]
7. Heartbreak Hotel [alt. take]
8. Rocket Queen [alt. take]
9. Don't Cry

6-9: Sound City Studios, Cabrito Road, Van Nuys, CA 91406, June 4/5 1986.

10. Jumpin' Jack Flash
11. You're Crazy
12. Reckless Life [without fake crowd noise]
13. Heartbreak Hotel
14. Shadow Of Your Love [without fake crowd noise]
15. Welcome To The Jungle
16. Move To The City [without fake crowd noise]
17. Mama Kin [without fake crowd noise]
18. Nice Boys [without fake crowd noise]
19. Mr. Brownstone
20. Nightrain
21. Sweet Child O' Mine
22. Don't Cry

10-22: Pasha Music House Studio, Melrose Avenue, Hollywood, CA 90028, August 1986.

23. One In A Million [alt. take]
24. Used To Love Her [alt. take]
25. Cornchucker

23-25: Take One Recording Studios, Glenwood Place, Burbank, CA 91506, July 29 1987.

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I was at one of those European shows, and after watching on video some of the NA Skin N' Bones shows (like Hartford and, recently, Saskatoon), I agree.

I think an additional factor was the type of venue. The acoustic set with the couch didn't work well in stadiums, it was made for smaller venues, like the arenas in NA.

It's embarrassing how promising the Skin N' Bones tour looked at the outset ...

Look at this :

02.23.93 - Frank Erwin Center, Austin, TX
set: Welcome To The Jungle, Garden Of Eden, It's So Easy, Attitude, Double Talkin' Jive, The Garden, Live And Let Die, So Fine, You Ain't The First, You're Crazy, Used To Love Her, Patience, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Piano Solo, November Rain, Dead Horse, Drum Solo, You Could Be Mine, Guitar Solo, Guitar / Piano Jam, Sweet Child O' Mine
encore: Nice Boys, Paradise City

and then, on the European leg of the SAME tour, we get this :

07.11.93 - Werchter Festival Ground, Werchter, Belgium
set: It's So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Live And Let Die, Welcome To The Jungle, Attitude, Double Talkin' Jive, Dead Flowers, You Ain't The First, You're Crazy, Used To Love Her, Patience [w/ Imagine], Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Dust In The Wind [Intro] / November Rain, Dead Horse, Drum Solo, You Could Be Mine, Guitar Solo, Sweet Child O' Mine
encore: Mother [Intro] / Paradise City

I agree with the factor of 'venue type' : as soon as they moved from indoors (NA) to outdoors (Europe), they dropped 'The Garden', never to return.  Maybe they thought it wouldn't work in daytime, with the psychedelic lights and all.  They also dropped all the other 'deep cuts', often only playing none, or just one of them.  The only songs (in comparison to the Werchter setlist above) to make a sporadic appearance in Europe were : 'Yesterdays', 'Estranged', 'Nightrain', 'Nice Boys', 'So Fine' (once !) and 'Don't Cry'.

The exception was the show in Guadalajara on April 21st, where they played 'The Garden' outdoors.  Maybe it was played in Monterrey both nights as well, but there's no known setlists for those.

Another factor I would like to consider is the return of Izzy for the first 5 shows in Europe.  Is it possible that they skipped the more 'exotic' songs from the NA tour like 'The Garden' or even 'So Fine' or 'Yesterdays', because Izzy didn't remember how to play them ?   Look at the bare bones setlists of those five shows :

05.24.93 - Olympic Stadium, Athens, Greece
set: Nightrain, Mr. Brownstone, It's So Easy, Live And Let Die, Attitude, Welcome To The Jungle, Double Talkin' Jive, You Ain't The First, You're Crazy, Used To Love Her, Patience [w/ Imagine], Only Women Bleed [Intro] / Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Piano Solo, November Rain, Dead Horse, Drum Solo, You Could Be Mine, Guitar Solo, Godfather Theme, Since I Don't Have You [Intro] / Sweet Child O' Mine, Mother [Intro] / Paradise City

Is it possible Izzy just couldn't be bothered to delve to deep into the catalogue, and they just kept the songs he was most familiar with ?  When he left again, they stayed with the bare bones setlists till the end of the tour, with a sporadic exception here and there, as mentioned above.  I think there was a quote somewhere in interviews of the time, that Izzy couldn't be bothered with rehearsing for these shows ?  I'm gonna leave finding the interview quote to you guys, you have proven to be very good at that !

What a lame show to end a mammoth, one-for-the-ages, 2+1/2 year world tour with ...

The UYI started off on a high in mid '91, and peaked in late '91, early '92 with those epic 2+1/2 to 3 hour shows, goofy costumes, erratic behaviour, and most importantly -> CRAZY setlists, stuffed with goodies, 'deep' UYI cuts like 'Perfect Crime', 'Pretty Tied Up', '14 Years', 'Estranged' etc ... rotated in and out, mixed up with blasts from the past like 'Rocket Queen', 'Move To The City', 'My Michelle'  ... At any given time you could even be surprised with 'Locomotive', 'Coma', 'Breakdown', ...

Then they took off for Europe and the shows never recovered ... they developed a kind of standard 2 hour set, with little to no changes/surprises ...

By the time they got to Europe the next year in May '93, shows were often dropping under 2 hours, there was ZERO excitement and/or setlist changes/surprises, the welcome change of the acoustic set had become boring and repetitious, dragging on for up to 45 minutes.

They decided to end the tour in Argentina, for 2 shows tacked on to the end of that snooze-fest of a European leg. 2 Nights in a massive football stadium, packed to the rafters with crazed South-American fans ...

... and THIS is what they got :

07.16.93 - Estadio River Plate, Buenos Aires, Argentina
set: It's So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Live And Let Die, Welcome To The Jungle, Attitude, Double Talkin' Jive, Dead Flowers, You Ain't The First, You're Crazy, Used To Love Her, Patience [w/ Imagine], Knockin' On Heaven's Door, November Rain, Dead Horse, Drum Solo, You Could Be Mine, Guitar Solo, Godfather Theme, Sweet Child O' Mine, Don't Cry, Mother [Intro] / Paradise City

07.17.93 - Estadio River Plate, Buenos Aires, Argentina
set: Nightrain, Mr. Brownstone, Yesterdays, Live And Let Die, Attitude, Welcome To The Jungle, Double Talkin' Jive, Dead Flowers, You Ain't The First, You're Crazy, Used To Love Her, Patience [w/ Pinball Wizard & Imagine], Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Dust In The Wind [Intro] / November Rain, Dead Horse, Drum Solo, You Could Be Mine, Guitar Solo, Sweet Child O' Mine, Mother [Intro] / Paradise City

Instead of the above , GNR should've gone all out for one last time, to end the most important tour of their career, the end of an era, the end of the REAL GNR, and served up something like this :

01.28.92 - San Diego Sports Arena, San Diego, CA
set: Welcome To The Jungle, Mr. Brownstone, It's So Easy, Bad Obsession, Live And Let Die, Attitude, Don't Cry, My Michelle, Nightrain, Wild Horses [Intro] / Patience, Double Talkin' Jive, Civil War, Move To The City, You Could Be Mine, So Fine, Piano Solo, November Rain, Drum Solo, Guitar Solo, Godfather Theme, Sail Away Sweet Sister / Bad Time [Intro] / Sweet Child O' Mine, Only Women Bleed [Intro] / Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Yesterdays, Rocket Queen, Estranged, Mother [Intro] / Paradise City

I would just have picked 'Perfect Crime' as an opener, moved up 'Welcome To The Jungle' a few places, and maybe added in 'Locomotive' and 'Pretty Tied Up', but hey, it's GNR, you can't have it all

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

 Btw he had done a video for I Don't Care About You consisting of live footage (he had also directed the videos for Duff's Believe In Me and Slash's Good To Be Alive) which apparently was never officially released:

https://vimeo.com/154408923

 

THIS IS PURE GOLD !!!

I had no idea this even existed, thanks for sharing ! 

This is just another reminder of how much CRAZY footage that they have of that era   which we'll never see ...

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

A quote from Axl published in June 1988 also suggests that material expected to be included in their forthcoming EP was recorded at the end of an Appetite session, but also that they had "just" been recording:

That's what we're doing next week (at press time -- Ed.). We've just been recording, and we might even leave it intact, as it is, or use it as a B-side. When we went into the studio initially, to do some test tracks and lay down some songs and see what we had together, we had about 27 songs together when Geffen first signed us. So we went in, laid that down, and we were in there for like two days, and at the end of the second day we just got into an acoustic jam [Rock Scene, June 1988].

So this supports two separate acoustic sessions, one about when they recorded Appetite and one in the first half of 1988.

 

Axl is talking about the Sound City sessions where they recorded acoustic versions of 'Jumping Jack Flash' and 'Move To The City' for example.  I read it like he's referring to 'an earlier time when they first started recording these acoustics things'.   The only thing in this quote that refers to the actual GNR Lies sessions are the first sentences, in bold, I assume he's talking about the April 19/20 1988 GNR Lies session there.

What do you guys think ?

5 hours ago, NeonKinight said:

The only thing i'd love to hear is YCBM 1985/86. wonder how it sounds

'YCBM' and 'Perfect Crime' were confirmed to have been written during AFD pre-production in mid to late '86.  'YCBM' probably late '86 early '87.

9 minutes ago, NeonKinight said:

BTW, Wich songs are older than the band itself?

November Rain - 1983
Perfect Crime - 1984
Back Off Bitch - 1984
Shadow Of Your Love - 1983
Anything Goes - 1983/84
Reckless Life - 1984


Anything left?

'Perfect Crime' was debuted live on oct 31st 1986.

10 hours ago, Sergeanur said:

All of the Niven tracks seem to be the same session. I even tend to think Move To The City is the same session too (instrumental wise at least).

It was pointed out to me, rather embarassingly , that the (and my) general belief that there was only one GNR Lies session (in Jan 1988), was completely wrong.

All the 'evidence' ( boxset liner notes + the FACT that the Niven tracks are from ONE session) points to this conclusion :

July 29 1987, Take One Studio, Burbank, CA

- Patience [officially released]

- You're Crazy [alt. take - officially released]

- One In A Million [officially released] -> ??? UNCERTAIN/UNCONFIRMED - EDUCATED GUESS

- Used To Love Her [alt. take - circulating unofficially]

- Cornchucker [circulating unofficially]

- One In A Million [alt. take - circulating unofficially]

April 19 1988, Image Studio, Hollywood, CA

- Used To Love Her [officially released]

- You're Crazy [officially released]

April 20 1988, Image Studio, Hollywood, CA

- Move To The City [officially released]

This all just goes to show that we CANNOT blindly trust band member quotes in interviews (of which I am guilty as well), because they can be proven to be wrong time and time again.  Even Marc Canter gets some details wrong.  Who can blame them, it's been 30+ years.

15 hours ago, Euchre said:

Well, i’ve been trying to help you because I liked what you were trying to do with getting everything down, but it seems no matter what I say you aren’t going to believe it.

I told you there were 2 sessions for Lies. Your response was that it was well documented that there was only one session and what I was saying was ‘clearly untrue’. As it turns out both those assertions you made were wrong.

 

So either I knew what I was talking about or I was the luckiest guesser in the world and making a guess that was flying in the face of the inaccuracies on the web.

So saying ‘ I/we didn’t know about that’, isn’t accurate. Some people did know you just chose not to believe or even consider, and instead claim something was false that was really true.

Again I was pretty clear in my post about what I knew and what I was speculating on. You aren’t making that difference, just post speculation as if it were fact, so I know where the credibility currently lies.

So the last comment I will make on Lies which you can choose to believe or disbelieve is that the 4 songs on the Niven tape were the 4 and only 4 recorded in the first session.

i don’t know enough to comment on what was or wasn’t done during the second but would guess based on all I know it was the 3 off Lies + move to the city. I doubt there was more but don’t know for sure.

my final point will be there is other stuff out there - I have a recording from the Appetite sessions that not only isn’t in the box set but no one has realised is missing from the box set. It is on the net, but hard to find....but I guess in some people’s mind because it’s not documented on certain web pages it mustn’t exist.

 

ok

4 minutes ago, Euchre said:

So I think this thread 

is now proving that what I said about 2 sessions for Lies was accurate.

if you re read my original post, I’m pretty clear where I’m basing comments of things I’m sure of and where I’m speculating.

The reason I said ‘writer on internet nearly 30 years later’ is that is the only place I’ve ever heard of there only being one session and it occurring in Jan 88. This is one of those things in GNR world that only emerged recently and seems to be taken as gospel even though it seems someone on the net started it with no basis and then it got repeated enough times that everyone seems to think it is true. Another prime example of this is the song credits on Appetite.

If you have another source for a Jan 88 session I’d be keen to know about it. The only place somewhat credible I’ve heard this suggested and where I believe the rumour probably started was Axl mentioning at a Jan88 gig that they were going to go into the studio next week or something to record. This doesn’t mean it actually happened though.

My understanding is that the stuff on the Niven leak was the ‘87 session of which on patience was used, the other 3 on Lies is from the second session. Again, there is an interview out there with Axl somewhere where he talks about this where he says they re did it because he didn’t like his vocals but he band was great on the first go round. I don’t have the link nor the time to try and find this though, you’ll have to do some googling yourself if you want it.

This is discussion is now obsolete, because the liner notes of the boxset have the exact dates/studios listed for these sessions.  I/we didn't have that info earlier.

The january '88 Rumbo date has been around for ages, didn't start on the internet like you say, it's been mentioned in interviews over the last 30 years.

We still don't have a date/studio confirmed for 'One In A Million', 'Used To Love Her', 'Cornchucker' and 'One In A Million' [alt. take.].  And that's only the takes we know about, there might have been lots more that we don't even know about, including other takes of 'Patience' and maybe even 'Yesterdays', which like you said they were planning to record in january '88.

GNR Lies sessions/takes that we know of :

- July 29 1987 - Take One Studio :

' Patience' + 'You're Crazy' [alt. take]

- April 19/20 1988 - Image Studio :

'Used To Love Her' + 'You're Crazy' + 'Move To The City'

- unknown date/studio (probably one of the above) :

'One In A Million' + 'Used To Love Her' [alt. take] + 'Cornchucker' + 'One In A Million' [alt. take]

1 hour ago, zombux said:

no, I don't think so

@Sergeanur & @Nikki_Sixx well, that's a draw. so... I still don't know what to do with those. at the current state it definitely needs to be noted as "very uncertain"

I don't agree  you can't call it a draw, since I am the only one who has a different opinion on this, everyone else seems to agree that it's Sound City.

Maybe we can agree to revert back to that, until it can be proven otherwise ?

1 hour ago, Sergeanur said:

Could you spoonfeed me? I don't really notice the difference on this between all 3 tracks.

Start off the song, single out the guitar that plays the lead melody, and follow that one into the verses.  In the verses, that guitar plays open power chords all the way through, on both Many Faces and Pasha.

On Sound City however, this guitar plays a rythmic, somewhat palm-muted variation with the three chords.

Does that make any sense ?