Chewbacca

5 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

I enjoyed it more than I thought, from a purely entertainment stand point. The entire film felt like it was digging itself out of the hole from the last two films; and it turned out better than I thought. But, much like TLJ, some minor decisions from Disney could’ve added a little more to the film. NO ONE DIES EXCEPT KYLO. Wtf.. no real tension at all. I loved Ian’s voice work as Palpatine, he felt so fucking evil. But the knights of ren disappointed, the reason for palpatine being back was sluggish, a couple of added deus ex machinas later and the film could’ve been better.

 

still, I enjoyed it more than Force Awakens. Still, more planet killing things. Same old shit.

 

i reallllllllly enjoyed the “be with me” Rey scene at the end. Getting more Mace Windew in my life is something I didn’t know I needed. Probably feel different with second viewing; so might edit this later

All that sealed with a magical Disney princess kiss...

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well, that will relieve the pressure!

Did you enjoy the scene where they are riding on the star destroyer on digital horses? 

No🤣 that scene is definetely not what killed this movie for me and is quite ignorable, but, boy, I cringed. Felt almost like a Marvel flick.

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

Did Mark Hammill criticize this one like he did the previous 2?

He said to wait and watch it on cable.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/11/12/mark-hamill-tells-fan-to-wait-for-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-to-release-on-cable/

30 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

Yes, JJ making a worse movie is the director of the last movie's fault 🙄. JJ not doing anything new and just going "this is star wars!!!" is Rian's fault. 

I didn't say that. What happened here is a cluster of bad decisions by multiple people. Of course Rian isn't the only one to blame, but TLJ did not give much to 9 to work with.

33 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

Didnt most people love TFA?

As far as I remember, yes. It was a fine flick. Perhaps a little too rehashed from episode IV, but it set a path with lots of possibilities for fan to look forward to. Too bad its sequel was so mishandled it managed to criple 9, the entire trilogy and even the OT, by reviving ol' man Sheev and making Anakin's sacrifice pointless. The fact that Luke went nowhere with his new Jedi order didn't help IMO. Many of us wanted to see a new Jedi order, less restrict like the ones we had in the Old C-canon EU and we ended up with the same thing we had in the OT, no jedi order, that is.

You know, I remember being excited over Disney buying it from Lucas, I remember even joking about Olivia Kenobi making a cameo. Lucas never cared about the C-canon, he was like "it's all about Anakin's life, Luke doesn't get married and Palpatine never gets cloned (thank god) and many fans were fedup with that as well. Note that Lucas had plans for a sequel trilogy, which only made these statements even more confusing. We saw in Disney a possibility to get these stories get the respect they deserved, but in the end results were underwhelming. Shame.

53 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I really think the biggest issue we differ on is if there was a plan for this trilogy.

I'd made the comment that it was time for JJ to clean up Rians mess. Your point was that it's on Kennedy because Disney didn't have a plan. 

That's where I disagree. From my POV, there was a plan which started with TFA then Rian came in and shit all over the plan. So then it was on JJ to get things back on track and tied up over the course of the last two hours or so. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that a lot of SW fans feel justified in blaming Kennedy for a lot of what's happened. I just think the plot line mess lies solely with Rian Johnson. 

As for Rise specifically, I posted that it was everything I wanted it to be and it was. All I wanted was for JJ to clean up what he could from all the things TLJ did wrong. 

I agree with you there.

I did not agree with blowing the core worlds in 7 as it really undermines the efforts in OT, but it had potential. Episode 8 wasted too much time with meaningless stuff, Luke's portrayal is just the tip of the iceberg why that movie messed up this trilogy.

If you think about it, after the starkiller fired in episode 7, plus the decision to kill Snoke and have Palpatine back, we were left in the same place we were by the beggining of episode IV:

The republic was a splintered figure of its former self with no centralized power. 

The good guys had to go on a desperate assault to blow up yet another death star.

An old character is killed by his former friend/son figure that used to be a jedi, but fell to the dark side thanks to Sidious.

The Jedi are all dead, save for our would-be hero and an old master that fought in a war decades ago.

Our hero sets out to find this old master on an isolated planet.

The master hesitates initially.

The master dies by vanishing into the force.

The trilogy concludes by having the fallen jedi coming back to the light side and help our hero against Sidious.

The OT became meaningless because they had to go and do it all over again.

14 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

That. And really offered nothing. Except old heroes dying without having one scene together. To me the continuation of the saga will always be the now discarded EU. Fuck the new/remake trilogy. As a whole, it was a total fail.

Yeah... they really wasted this opportunity.

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Is the three year gap between ANH and ESB ever made clear or is this something only relayed in the books?  

On the movie? Not that I remember. On books? Yes and no. In the novelization that came BEFORE episode was written "several months" that's what was advertised.

Anyways, this is not really important, because it is also never stated that it happened right after 4, unlike 7 to 8, which makes it impossible for something happening in between them.

It's the same thing with the Knights of Ren. They were advertised as the big baddies since 7 and we only get to see them in 9. At least they had the decency of making a comic book about them too, something that could've replaced the casino arc in 8 easily.

Also much of it was written after the movies were released. True, but from 4 to 5 there's a 3-year gap. The same can't be said about 7 to 8, since one takes place directly after the other.

21 minutes ago, downzy said:

But none of this is in the film.

All of this is written years after the film.

Moreover, how is any of this consider canon?  I thought most of the extended universe and books were discarded once Disney bought the film rights?

There are new books that receive the canon label and Disney reckons they are canon.

Not all books came before movies. Splinter of the mind's eye takes place after 4 and before 5 and was released in '78.

4 hours ago, downzy said:

Kylo Ren is Sith Lord in the Force Awakens?   

I must have missed that part of the film.  I do recall Smoke saying that Kylo needed to return to complete his training.

Nor was Ben Solo ever a Jedi.  He was training to be one.

Also your passage above excuses Rey's use of a staff as a weapon at the beginning TFA.

Also, I don't recall seeing Luke training with the lightsaber in Empire Strikes Back.  There's a 30 second scene in A New Hope.

I suppose all Luke needed was Ghost Obi One whispering in his ear "use the force" to mind control his lightsaber while stuck in the ice at the beginning of ESB.  How does Luke know this is a Jedi power?  He hadn't met Yoda yet.

You're just making excuses.  

It's a movie.  We give passes to characters all the time for doing things where no explanation is given as to how or why they can do it.  A female character does it and it's an example of bad writing and SJWism. And it's a complaint always made by men.  

By these statements that you clearly don't know your star wars lore properly. Luke did try to train by himself, both on Legends and Canon. In canon, which is what this film follows, he goes to find Obi Wan's journal and tries to get in the jedi temple in coruscant, fights with Vader and is contacted by obi wan. Much has happened between 4 and 5, which THREE YEARS apart. Still, on 5 what impressive feat doea Luke do? Pull a lightsaber on the wampa cave? Gets his speeder shot down? Gets humiliated by Yoda's much superior force powers? Gets beaten badlly by Darth Vader, who wasn't trying to kill him, actually he was trying to bring him to the dark side. All Luke does is a force-powered jump and that's it. A little reminder, that Vader is not in his prime and is hampered by his suit and unable to use his signature Form V Shien and to rely on Djem So more, also as Darth Vader he was basically unable to perform his Ataru acrobatics, he was no Yoda, but he had a good grip on form IV. In other words, Luke is not a Gary Stu and stop saying mary sue is sexist when we have a male version too, blind white knighting at its best.

Compare this to Rey that kept Kylo out of her mind, even Snoke was impressed and said she is only a scavenger and Kylo said it's because she's strong without any explanation (That's a mary sue/gary stu character), unlike Anakin which was conceived by the force- and maybe Plagueis and Sidious). She also managed to beat Kylo EVERYTIME. She never lost a fight. She even pulled off the mind trick without any training. If luke was scolded for being brash and didn't really make anything impressive, Rey came in and Luke's reaction was "I've only seen this raw strength before once" referring to his retarded nephew, the same one known for being Rey's punchbag and the ugliest lifeform in the galaxy.

As for the movie, it's a turd. I can't blame Jar Jar for that. Johnson crippled this trilogy with 8. 7 kinda already made the OT meaningless by destroying the core worlds with the starkiller base.

You know, episode 7, apart for destroying the core worlds and undermining the OT, wasn't bad. Many fans were angry because of the end of the old EU and Lucas Games, but mostly were ok with 7, but 8 simply derailed things so bad there was no salvation.

We were claiming for stories like the Thrawn trilogy or the Vong Wars. The Old EU was messy, but Disney could've organized it. We just wanted good characters like:

Mara Jade Skywalker

Jaina Solo

Tenel Ka Djo

Tahiri Veila

Lady Lumia

Leia's way more powerful legends version

All of them are very strong female characters, especially Jaina. We wanted that, only to be called sexist by white knights.

I don't even know why it's called Rise of Skywalker. The line of the boy who was conceived by the force is well... spoilers. 

3 hours ago, soon said:

Dang, the 2010 data doesn't even list Brazil, but the 2015 data says Brazil had 60 000 gun homicides. Either these numbers are not solid or Brazil had a huge spike in gun violence between 2010 and 2015. 

Nah, not a spike, more like a steady increase. Brazil is usually in 9-13th place. El salvador, Jamaica, US Virgin Islands and Honduras are usually the leaders, with Venezuela closing in recently. Brazil was like 10th or 9th place back in 2015 with that murder record.

Here's a more up to date chart:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Note that these are the numbers for INTENTIONAL gun homicides in 2016 for Brazil. We came pretty close to 2015 there and we were at 10-9th place, while El Salvador is a distant leader.

On 02/12/2019 at 12:51 PM, Rovim said:

with respect, this is simply not true. Making guns illegal will absolutely reduce the number of people killed. It is the most effective way to tackle this problem. When you make it more difficult for people to obtain guns, most will not own them. Why do you think in countries where it is illegal to own them it's not even close when you compare the amount of murders/killing sprees? you don't need to "forbid production", you just need to make it illegal for people to own them. At least that would be a great start.

This is simply untrue. 

http://metrocosm.com/homicides-brazil-vs-world/

Latin america and Africa representin:

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Because the Terminators were sent out prior to Skynet being erased.  Otherwise the Terminators in T2 wouldn't have arrived either.  

Let's go over this again. 

Skynet existed in the future and sent back the T-1000 and the good T-800 for Terminator 2.  Sarah Conor in the new film says that before they changed the future, Skynet sent more Terminators.  Who knows exactly when this took place, but it was either at the same time it sent the T-1000 back or even before.  They show up later because that's when they're sent.  It doesn't matter that Skynet no longer exists since they depart at a time when Skynet does exist and arrive in a year where the future is changed as a result of T2.  Assume Carl does show up in 1998 in Guatemala some how (though he might have shown up earlier and needed time to track John down).  He's still from a future that existed before the events of T2 changed things.  

Carl, the good T800 that was in T2, and the T1000 were all sent from a future when Skynet existed before the events of T2 occurred. This is why Carl had their deploy dates in his data; they were either sent before he was sent or at the same time.  It's just they were sent to different years.  One area I'm a little confused about whether he actually had their deploy dates and locations or whether he can detect the arrival of Terminators from the future.  I'm guessing the latter since he was able to detect the Rev-9, a Terminator that isn't from Carl's future.  

Why not?  Wouldn't Skynet have learned as a result of the failure from the first Terminator film that Terminators may not succeed and as a result things might change?  Even if it assumes that Judgement Day does actually happen, wouldn't John still be Skynet's most wanted and might be vulnerable soon after judgement day?  Obviously John survives judgement day since he leads the resistance.  What difference does it make if they send Terminators back before or after the judgement day known to Skynet at the time they sent the Terminators back?

How Skynet would learn anything if it was erased?

Skynet knew Judgement day was in 1997. Why would he send a terminator after that if he was already on top? Also 1997 is a key date for it. He needs to ensure it happens. Sending a terminator after that makes no sense. What did Skynet accomplish by killing john on the beach? Nothing, he's still erased.

How were the terminators sent before he was erased if he sent those terminator past 1997 and he was erased in 1991?

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Sorry, I'm not seeing the plot hole.

Skynet sent multiple Terminators to kill John to various points in time before its erasure.  

Perhaps they sent Terminators post 1997 with the consideration that the Terminator sent back in 1991 failed (which makes sense since the first Terminator failed in T1).  Perhaps others were sent around the planet earlier and it took them awhile to track John down.  And also, perhaps Terminators sent back after John's death (the ones destroyed by Sarah) were sent by Legion and not Skynet.  

Any of these scenarios would explain why Terminators continue to arrive post 1997.  

"Carl" also seems to be able to detect when and where Terminators sent from Legion.  Sarah was notified of the arrival of the Rev-9 Terminator's, which is from Legion's time, by Carl.  The Rev-9 is known to Grace, who is only familiar with Legion and not Skynet.  Hence it's probable Legion became the entity that was sending Terminators back at some point instead of Skynet.  

How is it not a plot hole?  How come robots can go back to the past thx to a future computer that doesn't exist anymore? How would Skynet send anything after "aknowledging" his failure in T2 if he would be erased by the? Why would legion send a T800 after JC if he's not its nemesis?

The movie implies that Carl, the original T800, T1000 and the other terminator Sarah hunted were sent by Skynet, hence Carl had their deployment dates stored in his data, which also doesn't make sense since the future that created him is no more. Even if we ignore it and say he can exist because he was sent with the other T800's "before" T2 happened, why would skynet send him and the others to a date PAST judgement day? It wouldn't change anything at this point. Jc wouldn't be vulnerable anymore and he would be already erased.

46 minutes ago, downzy said:

I suppose at this point we don't need to use spoiler tags since the film has been out for over a week or two (depending where you live).

SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM

I believe Skynet sent back several Terminators before Sarah, John, and the good Terminator changed the course of events in Terminator 2.  It wasn't just the T-1000, they seemed to have sent several evil T-800s back as well I suppose as a back up plan. 

The Terminators sent back after the events of T2 were from what we can only assume was something else, perhaps Legion.  The whole argument of the storyline is that the rise of AI and Terminators are inevitable.  Shut down Skynet and humans will find another way to fuck things up.  

I think the Arnold terminator that killed John turned out as he did because his mission was completed.  Other Terminators were either killed by Sarah or had different missions because they weren't sent back by Skynet.  

If I had to list the top 50 reasons why this movie didn't do well commercially, the attractiveness of the actors would be number 50.  Avatar is one of the highest grossing films of all time.  Did you find the blue people attractive?  I wouldn't say the kids in the Harry Potter films (hell, any of the actors really) score well in the looks department yet they are some of the highest grossing films of all time.  

Franchise fatigue after being dragged through the mud that last three films and television show, plus a really old Arnold, likely played a bigger role in why the movie didn't do well.  No one really needs to see this film in the same way that T2 was an event.  

From what I get it was skynet that sent those 6 terminators to the past, to an age where John and Sarah would be, in principle, vulnerable. This happened because Skynet didn't have exact data about them, since most was lost during the bombing. It was never stated that legion sent them, but Carl, a Skynet T800 sent Sarah messages with the coordinates for the other terminators, which, I suppose means they were all part of a cadre sent to kill JC for Skynet. Which makes no sense since:

A) Skynet is no more how the hell are its creations still roaming?

B) Why would Skynet send terminators to a period where the bombing already ocurred? He wouldn't be able to do this correction because he was already wiped out by T2's events.

C) If it was legion, why would he build T800's? Why target John? He's not even the messiah anymore. Should've sent them after Dani instead.

They were blue but their facial features were mostly intact and they were all attractive people Zoe and Sam are very good looking. Even the evil sarge guy was good looking.

Harry Potter was a kid's movie, they had to get child actors for the kids to indentify themselves with. As the series went on and their public grew older, they also introduced manu attractive actors such as Gary Oldman, Robert Patinson, the girl who played Cho, The girl who played Fleur, the guy who played Krum, the guy who played the elder weasley that married Krum and they could not just ditch the trio that played the leading characters. Same goes for the fantastic animals trilogy, all good looking people, even if the movies were mostly crap.

1 hour ago, downzy said:

I think proximity to the US was likely one factor.  Another issue brought up by having the movie begin in Mexico is automation, and how many of the workers in Mexico are likely to be replaced by machines in the coming years.  I thought it was an interesting attempt to connect a contemporary issue that relates to the overall theme of robots replacing machines.  

 

I don't agree.  I think had this movie came out before T3 and the other two movies it would have felt more seamless and logical.  

  Reveal hidden contents

It made complete sense that the robots would send back more than one terminator to kill John Connor.  Why not when they make a thousand of those things in the future.  It was something myself and likely many others never really considered.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you there.  If you're distracted by the actors looks then I'm not sure what to tell you.  It doesn't really bother me that all actors in a movie aren't strikingly good looking.  Personally, I didn't find Grace nor Dani ugly one bit.  I guess different standards there.  

Yeah, mexico and a lot of other countries included. Machines taking our place is happening all over the world. I'm dealing with automated cashiers rather than real humans for some years now, even in brazilian small towns so not a good point really.

The whole skynet sending terminators don't make sense after T2 and why only Arnie turned out good? What were the other terminators gonna do once they discovered their objective was already completed? That was the biggest plot hole overall. Arnie's character should not even exist.

Having beautiful people to advertise a product has been proven to be a very effective startegy. Of course, you can be ugly if you have talent, like Joaquin in Joker, that movie made like a billion while Dark fate failed bad.

I didn't think it was a SJW flick, except for them killing THAT character just to put  a latina girl, that was forced and I am latino and why it is always mexicans? Just because they live closer to the US? Do Hollywood know there's way more to Latin America than Mexico?

The movie is bad because it is a retcon. Retcons suck: spider man being a clone, guy gardner being an alien, the new 52 (some of it was good tho), Terminator Genisys, Gwen stacy cheating on Peter  with Norman, Halloween H20, Palpatine being alive, Midichlorians, Alien 3, Wolverine is not a mutant, he's a Lupine and the worst of all, Spider man selling his marriage to the devil, which gave us glorious story arcs like having Harry Osbourne's Girl cheat him with Norman (he again, the rascal).

Also, what's up with the actors? Why are they so ugly? Linda and Arnie are old, ok, but Davies is ugly and that bowl cut made her even uglier, Natalia is also ugly and looks like a child, maybe it was some hollywood pedo's idea? 

15 hours ago, action said:

have you read "my struggle" by hitler?

Has anyone, apart from maybe the odd neo-nazi or the specialist historian?

No, but we all know it's utterly racist.

Word-by mouth marketing, fan backlash and countless youtube videos have made me come to this conclusion. If you search for "dark fate SJW", see the avalanche of videos that will pop up. I have a pretty good idea how SJW this movie is.

but like I said: to each their own. If people can convince me the movie isn't SJW at all, then maybe I'll go see the movie (doesn't change the fact that arnie only gets limited screen time, so that probably won't happen)

Get a torrent, so you don't pay for it. It's that simple. If you somehow end up liking it, then go see it and pay the ticket to support the movie. I did not like it so so I'm not paying.

15 hours ago, action said:

those numbers can't possibly be representative, seeing how the movie flopped. So something else is going on here.

If you went to see the movie, you probably didn't mind the SJW elements which were apparent well before release, which explains the good reviews. Like I said, it's ok if you liked the movie, no problem.

But seeing how the movie flopped, many people did "not" go to see the movie, and naturally they won't post reviews on rotten tomatoes either. You can't "review" something properly if you haven't seen it. Also, why should someone bother to post a review on RT, of a movie they haven't seen?

I think this explains those numbers. "Reality" is different. Talk to people, watch reactions from real people on youtube, whatever. Fact still remains, the movie flopped so that has to be a big clue as to reception of this movie.

But even then I don't want to refer to general reception of the movie too much, make no mistake. "I" don't like the movie, that's all I can say about that. My opinion wouldn't hold more value if many others have the same opinion as me, I'm not that bigoted. Every opinon has equal value.

That goes only for "verified reviews", That's why the score is what it is. See metacritic for example.

Just downloaded it cuz I ain't paying for any terminator sequels after salvation.

That said, I'm still unsure whether Genisys or Dark Fate is the worst movie in the series. Tho Genisys might take the cake for erasing T1 and T2 in its continuity, something DF did not.

Anyways, the flick is so confusing, I'm still not sure who sent the first terminator in the movie, skynet, who shouldn't exist after being wiped in T2 or not-skynet who shouldn't even carry this mission since dani is in the spotlight now (and why the hell would it produce yet another arnie? Is it the only design available for evil AI's?).

The time skip didn't help either. Sara is a terminator hunter. How many did she kill? How does she doesn't know Dani? If these hunted terminators weren't looking for her like rev 9 (so they would end up meeting), what were they after?

10 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

Any statistics on this?

Well yeah, the video I posted earlier. Here's another source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/noticias.r7.com/brasil/primeiro-mes-de-bolsonaro-registra-queda-dos-indices-de-criminalidade-20052019%3famp

It says violent crime was reduced by 24-25%

Here, I used google translator and there's not much translation noise:

Despite the result, homicide rate is still high

The number of murders, killings (robbery followed by death), cargo theft, vehicle and other crimes were reduced in January, Jair Bolsonaro's first month as President of the Republic.

The data are from Sinesp (National Information System for Public Safety, Prison, Arms and Ammunition Traceability, Genetic Material, Digital and Drug). This is the first time numbers have been released in a standardized and official manner.

Nine crimes included in the report: rape, vehicle theft, willful murder, personal injury followed by death, theft of the financial institution, cargo theft, vehicle theft, murder and attempted murder.

In January 2018, there were 58,059 registrations. In 2019, 44,207: reduction of 23.85%. The only state that did not enter the statistics was Paraná, which had not made the data available.

Murder cases fell by 20.63% (3,600) compared with January 2018. The killings fell by 11.87% (141 cases in 2019).

In 2018 Brazil recorded an average of 24.02 homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants. The world average is 6.4 per 100,000 people.

The number of reported rape cases fell from 4,096 in January 2018 to 3,663 in the same month this year, down 10.57%.

Vehicle and cargo theft dropped 28.5% (16,172 cases) and 27.3% (1,521 cases), respectively.

Already theft of vehicles totaled 18,170 cases, presenting a reduction of 13.55% in the month analyzed.
 

3 hours ago, rebeldhipi said:

I dunno about the rest of the country but i was in Rio last month and EVERYBODY said that crime is on the rise and that its not been this bad in years.

Also less security by the cops. Less founding.

I saw an doc on european tv also on the risen crime levels of rio that was made this month.

I think brazil has alot of fake news too.

Remember bolsanaro likes the old days of total military control. Not really democratic isint it.

 

And when i say crime. I dont mean corrupted rich business people laundering money. 

I mean murders, robberies ect

Well, yeah. Violent crimes were the ones that decreased sharply. Anyways, you're gringo then? Not from here? Coming here and asking around is not a good way to measure crime and stuff.

3 hours ago, soon said:

Oh that is rich. I will continue to believe the scientists.

Ouster the maniac, and undo neoliberalism.

No. You're not believing the scientists. I showed you NASA's report on it and they say it is within the usual range and they have a way bigger datapool. The INPE stuff I brought here also showed you that it is just slightly higher than 2016. I showed a report that this is not even a record within this decade, 2010 is the record holder and even then it was not considered a HUGE deviation and was within our yearly expectations.

You're being stubborn, imature and ignorant. When you're wrong just be the better man and admit it. You're ignoring all the stats we're giving you and misinterpreting what you brought. Inpe only said queimadas had an 83% increase compared to 2013. THAT'S IT. It didn't say it was a huge deviation. The media blew it out of the water. All you're doing is saying that queimadas rose this year, which is true, but we're showing that it is within the usual range and not even all time high for the decade and you're ignoring it.

3 hours ago, rebeldhipi said:

All i know is that since the new president crime and povety has exploded and he basicly has given the green light to companies to burn some forest.

 

Actually crime has taken a huge dip after he became president. That has been on the news a month ago.

As for poverty, there are no new data from IBGE right now, other than that poverty rose in 2017 and 2018, before Bolsonaro became president. Poverty has been on the rise since 2014 when Dilma managed to make Brazil go thru its worst recession in recent history:

pichost

PIB here stands for GDP. It is showing how it progressed through 2010-2016.

What are your sources to claim that?