Chewbacca

Just now, soon said:

To be clear you are asking me this because I noted a difference between someone identifying as communist but not believing in State Communism?

No. Just curious on how you perceive it.

1 minute ago, soon said:

... is what you could've typed into google 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/do-you-know-the-difference-between-a-communist-and-a-socialist-a6708086.html

So you answer is:

“In a communist country, the government answers those questions. There's no private business. There's no private property. The government decides.” and “In the socialist system, there's a mix of both. The government operates the system to help all, but there is opportunity for private property and private wealth. That's generally how we talk about it.” ?

In your words, how does the state work in both systems?

2 minutes ago, soon said:

no

What is the difference between communism and socialism?

6 hours ago, soon said:

Not sure who coined it, but it means Communism at the State level.  That the Nation is run by a communist hierarchy. Some people would identify as Communists but not agree with State Communism. Often the difference is referred to like: 'Jonny is a Statist Commie'

No, I dont mean socialism - why do you think that?

Don't you think State Communism is a bit paradoxal?

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:46 PM, soon said:

State Communism is trash.  However just because Marx and Engels were wrong about some things, doesnt necessarily mean they weren't correct about some things.  

Best to just take their critic of Capitalism and leave their prescriptions.  

If you have weekends off.  Or maybe work weekends but your employer cant force you to work more than 40 hours a week.  If you get holidays.  If your life is in anyways improved by a union.  If you had govt support after an injury or health crisis, If there are health and safety standards keeping you safe at work... thank those two crazies!  

What is "State Communism"? Don't you mean socialism? Who coined this term?

37 minutes ago, soon said:

I cant tell if you've a dry wit or are actually asking me to source a joke about things I would say in the future (which are widely known facts btw)?

These are true facts, so they could be brought up, but its would be preposterous to just say computers are bad because of Nazis.  "Nazis" being replacement for KKs "Leftist Conspiracy" theory refrain.  That was the joke.  But here are the facts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

edit:  forgot one for ya:

https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law

They didn't make computers specifically for the nazis and the holocaust, you're overstating it. Those were punch cards made by their german subsidiary. This technology did exist before WW2. It did facilitate it, but didn't enable it.

Your source tells me prescott bush was a diretor and shareholder of UBC, but was not involed in aiding nazis directly.

Again, your source tells me that the scientists from the program were all investigated and were considered clear from any crimes, except from one guy that had to face trial in germany anyways and one guy who fled the US out of fear of prosecution, which shows that there was indeed some form of investigation.

Bill Clinton also kept the disparties between powder and crack cocaine

Anyways, why should americans feel ashamed of their country because of a single person and his "dynasty" or any of this?

3 minutes ago, soon said:

Do it.  Ive seen your lists so far!  And will be sure to bring the same balance and voice of reason that you have brought here.

Computers:  IBM provided computers and technical support to the Nazis specifically for the holocaust.  

The Bush Dynasty:  Solidified by Prescott Bush who was a banker, illegally and treacherously, for the Nazis doing WW2.  HW and Dubbya maintained the racist disparities in penalty between powder and crack cocaine

Inovation:  Things like velcro, tang, microwaves and mylar come out of the space race.  The space race was part of the cold war.  NASA did so well because they gave a bunch of Nazi war criminals amnesty and secretly brought them to work in NASA and for the MIC.

Source?

Yay, another article that tells americans they're wrong in their views, are blind, think they're the nicest thing in the world and  should be ashamed of themselves. Damn, americans, stop being the bad guys for once. How do you manage to live your lives with all that shame in your shoulders?

I don't have statistics, but I have shown you many reports of medical wrongdoing which are signed and stamped by cubans.

Only after an adaptation exam. Otherwise no, they can't.

1 hour ago, soon said:

I dont think your understanding what Im saying.

I didn't ask for evidence of Dr fleeing.  You only offered anecdotal evidence that Cuban trained Drs arent good.  Then I gave evidence that says they must be.  

I said that USA was not holding the citizens back despite the risk.

 

Which is...? You thinking that they're good enough based on a very vague assumption that you don't have any statistic for? 

Well, here's a well known collection of Cuban medic mishaps here in Brazil. It is in Portuguese, sorry:

http://www.perito.med.br/p/cubanadas-na-saude-do-brasil.html

Just a few of them. There are a lot of wrong dosages of antibiotics and even one doctor prescribing a banana peel treatment for pneumonia (?). Translate it you will find lots.

7 minutes ago, soon said:

Im trying to be polite:  YOU have offered no evidence!!!!  

(I never said it was only for USA - as the links I included clearly state)

What evidence do I have to give you? I'm stating a fact: you can't practice medicine in US with just the cuban grad, you need to go thru the steps, just like anyone with a foreign grad. I'm the one asking for any proof that cuban grads can perform as good as their american peers or that the US government was holding this program back for fears of domestic spies and saboteurs.

You want evidence of cuban docs fleeing from their duties with cuba?

http://g1.globo.com/sp/bauru-marilia/noticia/2016/08/cubano-abandona-mais-medicos-e-deixa-carta-vou-para-os-eua.htm

Here's a guy that fled from Brazil to the US to flee from the cuban government, it is in portuguese, sorry.

Here's another one, in english:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html

4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Wow, that sounds horrible.  I wouldn't have known based on the tourism here but that doesn't sound good at all.

Here, have some pics:

http://www.sindisaude.org.br/noticia/beneficencia-inspecao-dos-vereadores-no-hospital-define-reuniao-em-novembro

This here, kids, is what happens when you have a center left government for 20 years

It is in portuguese, of course. It basically says how bad things are, how the kitchen was closed, how 100 people were fired...

These photos are not part of the worst you can find there.

If you want to prove something you gotta give some data or any kind of info that proves you right

1 minute ago, soon said:

Ive gotta hand it to you for your boldness:  you have boldly stated that you will use anecdotal evidence and I must use stats.

The USA aint sending its citizens to a banned country, risking they become spies or saboteurs, for a program that isn't seeing positive results.  

Now, THAT's pure speculation. This study-medicine-in-Cuba program is not for the US only. Many people do it here in Brazil and they still gotta adapt to practice it here.

Just now, soon said:

And they pass and they practice medicine in the US.  The USA Govt is not into letting its citizens go to Cuba.  This was the exception.  So you believe that most of them dont pass those exams?  And that despite this the USA keeps the option open?  That is speculation.

The US keeps it open for everybody pretty much. I'm thinking about doing it myself. They won't close it because most fail, if that was the case as a Brazilian the option would be already closed for me. Do you have any data on how well cuban students go on the steps?

Just now, Padme said:

Center left and Communist Cuba are not the same thing. Center left supports more government involvement in the economy and social issues like environment and equality. But they move withing a democratric environment. They respect the rules of democracy. The difference is that the center right is more concervative with social issues and they want less government involvement with the free market system.

Cuba is not communist. It is a socialista republic.

But you're speculating on how well they perform, besides, graduating in cuba does not mean you have met the standards to practice it on the US by itself. They still have to go thru the steps exam to be able to practice it in the US, just like I would have to, if I intended to practice medicine there. That's what qualifies them, not their cuban grad.

1 minute ago, soon said:

Low income US medical students actually earn their degrees in Cuba, for free.  An opportunity the USA wont provide and one it allows its citizens to attend as long as they promise to return to US to practice medicine.  Cant be that bad of training if the US makes exceptions on travel ban and then requires those Drs to practice in USA?

http://medicc.org/ns/elam/

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-03-17/future-american-doctors-train-free-cuba

https://www.wired.com/2016/03/students-ditching-america-medical-school-cuba/

I'm talking from experience. You're just especulating. None of the links provide any studies comparing their performance as doctors compared to US-trained ones.

10 hours ago, Pishy said:

Liberal? 

homelessness was eradicated in Cuba , your own country admitted as much. 

Everyone there has free healthcare , free education , housing , water etc. Yes, something called the US embargo and countless terrorist attacks on Cuba , attempts at destabilizing the country and assassinating the leaders, caused the people there a lot of suffering. 

The days of shacks in Cuba and abject poverty , ended when your pal Batista was eliminated and the 95% of Cuban wealth was no longer being stolen by a certain state . 

Yeah, Cuba is so good... that's why people risk their lifes to get to the USA. Cuba has this embargo, true, but countries like Brazil have always lended a lot of Money to it. In fact we paid for them medics and as a brazilian doc myself I can say they are generally ill-prepared and a pain on the ass to work with. Worst of all, a lot of them are fleeing so they don't have to return to their "Paradise-island".

49 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Brazil seems to be doing much better economically.  We get tons of Brazilian tourists in Orlando...all seem to be doing well.  👍

Actually we're in the middle of a shitstorm. I'm a surgeon here and the hospital I'm working on is closing its door, just like 3 others on the same area. The healthcare system is done for. We can't medicate our patients cuz we can't afford basic medications. We are doing bandages using diapers and crepe tape cuz we can't afford gauzes and micropore tape. We can't perform any surgical procedures because our anesthesiologists quit. Their payment is overdue eleven months. Mine is overdue seven months. Rats and cockroaches infest the halls and corridors, health surveillance closed the kitchen and patients are being served fast food. This "free" health care system myth is just so stupid. somebody will always pay for it. If Obamacare was really based on our SUS, all I can I say is good fuckin luck and hold on tight to your health insurance.

39 minutes ago, Padme said:

Companies? Imported cars? Really???? What about people taken to concentration camps, tortured and missing? That's sound like Nazi Germany to me. That took place on Chile, Argentina and in other countries. That was not democracy. There was not free press either. Sure, the same took place in Cuba. That's why I said far right and far left are the same shit with different smell

What does this have to do with right or left wing? Like you said it sounds a lot like nazi germany, cuba and the soviets with their gulags. All of them left wing or syncretic movements. Nazism was never a right wing system. It features a government-controlled economy and a huge government like socialism. The nazis even called themselves the anti burgeois party.

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Well the far right dictators also destroyed South America. Far right and far left it's the same shit with different smell.

You can't really say they were far right, just Chile with Pinochet, they were centrist at best. Here, for example, we created 44 state-owned companies in this period and the economy was also highly regulated by the government. Back in the 60's, 70's and 80's one could not import a car, and a lotta other products as well, for example. 

They'll grow up eventually. Being raised on Brazil I was Indoctrinated at school into hating the US as the big villain of the world. I never listened to it, of course. Mostly because I saw first hand how the left wing destroyed this country, South america (it did a pretty good job on destroying Venezuela - and Cuba) and well... pretty much everything it touched. That's why I became right wing.

Man the left wing here is fucked up I think we could just start calling it right and wrong wings.

Well, yeah. IF they released new material, that is. they still can make it big, they just need to drop the nostalgia act.

22 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

The UK does not have the same gun culture America does. You really think banning guns in America would work?

What I'm sure would happen is criminal organizations would have an increase in revenue, bad people who want guns would still get them, America's hyper militarized police force would have another cross to get up on.

True. Exactly what happened here in Brazil.