RONIN

On 4/28/2016 at 3:19 AM, Rovim said:

He's not pretending to be anything. He's a great hard rock rhythm player that is really a lead player. He is a good fit imo for Guns not just because of his chops, but also cause he stylistically comes from the same place but brings his own hard rock vibe to the table.

Having the chops to play technically more complex stuff doesn't make you less of a player as proven by Bucket who had even more chops but for Gn'R came up with hearfelt solos like in Sorry and Twat.

Richard came up with the Better chorus riff, something that rocks hard, his influence on Slash is positive imo. Both styles work great together to my ears. Slash is much better of course, but Richard is there to mostly be a rhythm player and everything sounds mean and tight for Slash to wail on. I don't understand the complaints about Fortus at all.

Look -- if you like him, more power to you. This is all very subjective anyway. For me, he has a cheesy stage presence and zero chemistry with Duff and Slash. He just doesn't belong up there with those guys imho.

Sure he's got the technical ability, but so what? Finck sounded dreadful live, but he was a far more valuable addition to the band given his songwriting abilities. I loathed Finck, but have no hesitation in admitting that he had some great moments in CD, particularly the better solo (which Slash's solo doesn't even come close to). 

With fortus, what the fuck has he objectively even done with Gnr aside from touring and making some cringeworthy faces while he solos? The guy was blown off the stage by Buckethead and Ron Thal during the nu-guns shows anyway -- nobody even cared about him, he was as invisible as Paul Tobias.

I hope you're right and that Fortus is a great addition to the band but from my vantage point, all I see is a journeyman session guitarist with the technical ability of a lead guitar player with below average songwriting skills. I don't get how the band is going to sound tight when Slash is supposed to riff off another lead guitar player -- the reason why Izzy was so great was because he would chill and hang back while Slash does his thing. Not so much the case here.

I actually feel bad for Fortus because it's pretty clear that he's trying to find his moment to shine but the audience just doesn't care -- none of us are there to see him do solos (aside from the 6 or so Fortus fans on this thread I suppose).

On 4/28/2016 at 2:53 AM, SoulMonster said:

Has Axl said Izzy is unreliable? I can't remember him ever saying that. What Axl has said, though, together with Slash and Duff -- they have all agreed on this -- was that Izzy was not willing to put in the effort they felt was needed. Yes, Izzy did show up for gigs (util he quit), but that was all. See my quotes from Slash a couple of posts back.

In so many words, Axl has pointed out that Izzy is not the most reliable person. 

I wouldn't take what Slash said back in the UYI days as gospel. If you hear the '94 rockline interview with Slash and Axl, it's pretty clear Axl's seriously pissed at Izzy for leaving the band. My guess is that if he had his wish to delay the release of UYI, he would have removed Izzy off the album as he did on Spaghetti incident. Axl's infamous for replacing the work of ex-members with whichever replacement is on the payroll at the moment.

There is a great Izzy interview from '92 or '93 where a reporter mentions what Slash has been saying and Izzy replies back (paraphrasing here) "Ahh...that's not Slash talking, that's Axl talking through Slash". Slash only threw Axl under the bus in the press post '94. Before that, he would defend Axl in the press -- and that meant talking shit about Izzy to make it look like Izzy was the one at fault for leaving the band. That and -- Izzy probably left in an abrupt, lousy way which probably pissed the entire band off.

I pretty much take what Slash says with a grain of salt -- and what Axl says with a handful of salt. Only credible members in this band are Izzy and Duff. Duff is a company man -- so he'll basically be diplomatic and not reveal anything. His book has almost zero details about the circumstances for why the band was in such turmoil towards the end aside from some vague/broad stroke comments about why Slash left the band, etc. You have to dig all the way back to his interviews in the late '90's to find out how he actually felt about leaving the band and what made him quit. 

Basically, Izzy is the only guy with the version of the story that is probably closest to the truth -- he's the one with the least to lose by telling the truth.

And I don't for a minute buy that Slash wanted Steven back in the band. He threw Steven under the bus in 1990 and has distanced himself from Adler ever since (aside from a few one-off gigs). I love Slash but he's hardly the guy he portrays himself to be in the media. His behavior in VR (making decisions without consulting the band and basically acting like he was a separate entity from the band, etc) pretty much confirmed for me that he's not quite on the up and up himself. That's why I don't fully discard what Axl says -- he's probably telling some version of the truth, you just have to sift through his bullshit.

According to Slash -- their happiest moment as a band was at the Freddy Mercury tribute concert.

On 4/30/2016 at 8:10 AM, madison said:

Agreed. I find it amusing when some people claim that Slash and Duff were just "replacing" guys who left - nothing more.  Apparently, they ridiculously believe that when Ron and Tommy left, Axl went around wondering - 'Gee, who could I get to replace these two replacement members now. Hmmm, maybe Slash and Duff are available - I think I'll ask them."   This always makes me LOL. 

As Asia pointed out in this post, clearly it was a huge milestone when Axl mended fences with Slash and Duff. And once that happened, replacement members had to be booted out to make room for them. And since talks date back several years, I'm guessing Ron and Tommy knew this was in the works, which is why they respectfully left. I love Ron, btw, because he's always cared about the fans. 

As for DJ - he hung around as long as he could, but he too knew this was a reunion of the original lineup. I totally believe him though that Axl offered him a spot to stay. (Remember, Axl is the guy who brought in Paul back in the day).  But DJ knew the difference between the "real" GNR and the replacement one, and respected what the fans wanted.  I tip my hat to DJ. He's a class act. It's a shame other replacement members didn't do the same. 

 

Nice to see you're still around Madison. It's ironic to see how much you've changed your tune once King Dick cut you loose. You've banned so many people here in the past (including me) for defending the original lineup -- and here you are talking about replacements and championing the return of Izzy and Steven. Gotta say -- I didn't see that coming.

I've got nothing against you btw -- I thought what Axl said to you was utterly pathetic and shameful. 

6 hours ago, BOSSY78 said:

I thought it said he asked him to be a part of it which could mean many things. It could mean guest appearances, only a few songs from CD or anything. 

I try to look at it as Axl not being a douche and actually not firing those who have been with him for years. I think it shows Axls character and his respect for those who have been with him. Again he said a part in which is very choice words. 

Many may not agree and frankly that's fine but Axl does own the band name he has also carried this band for the last 25 years. Do I think some is his fault absolutely but it doesn't change the fact. 

This also proves that Axl didn't do this because he lost his band members. 

Some are taking it like DJ is acting high and mighty but I think he was respectful and even said he had no place there. As a fan he was happy Slash was back and threw some respect to Axl for not just firing him.

It's like a job you wouldn't want your boss to suddenly replace you after years of dedication through thick and thin. You'd hope they would find some position or to keep your position. I imagine it wasn't easy for Axl to tell these guys he was reuniting with some of the classic lineup. Irregardless of the fact I like Slash more I think it was honorable on both ends.

As far as new music I think it's gonna depend on how things go but I'm hoping we get to see some of Axls vault with the rest adding their parts.

I'm reminded that years ago there was a particular song that Axl had in mind for Slash and I think it was said he had offered Slash to work on it but it fell through somehow. Does anyone remember which song that was?

Yes, he's done a brilliant job managing the band. 1 album in 23 years and squandering the band's entire prime by hiding out in his mansion with Beta and Yoda. Not to mention hiring third rate clowns to tour AFD for the past 10 years to half empty arenas. Amazing job. The irony is that he burned so many bridges trying to get the gnr brand name and then ended up doing absolutely nothing with it. Insane.

Only thing I can say is that he atleast "appears" to be on the right track these days...but we'll see. I bought a ticket to see them live this year only because there is a very good possibility that this could be the final tour for this band. With GnR, you never know wtf is going to happen next.

Jesus Axl 

13 minutes ago, HeartbreakerWoman said:

Actually Slash and Duff were the only guys to show up to Chicago. Izzy showed up a few weeks late and Axl showed up about a month late, and when Axl trashed the hotel room they were staying out, Izzy bailed. Read Duff's book on that score.

You're right -- I forgot about that, thanks for clarifying.

The point is though, no matter what was going on with Izzy, he showed up to play every gig. He was there for most of the uyi sessions.This directly contradicts what Axl says about his unreliability. It's only once he felt that the band was in complete chaos that he stopped caring.

So yeah, he didn't show up to shoot the uyi videos and wasn't around for the final UYI sessions -- technically Axl has a point. But given what led to all that, it's hard to blame Izzy. 

On 4/21/2016 at 0:55 PM, Babooshka said:

Yeah Axl took issue, but Axl's taste levels veer towards the obnoxious. So the impact of Izzy's understated presence is probably not something's he'd get.

He also always had this insecure thing about things needing to happen on stage, or else he feels the pressure to carry the show is all on him. I reckon a lot of the tackiness the surrounds GNR comes from that mindset.

Anyway, Richard does his thing, it's a bit hammy but whatever.

He's a really cheesy guitarist on stage and doesn't have much personality in his playing but hey if some people like that then that's cool. He has a nice guitar tone I guess. Still pretty much a generic session guitarist. He sure as fuck doesn't complement Slash as well as Izzy since the dude is always showboating. He literally looks like he's having a stroke during his guitar solos.

Not sure what kind of writer he is but it's safe to say he ain't no Izzy.

The best guy nu guns ever had was Buckethead. Such an amazing, tasteful player. Nu guns was dead the day he left. Bumblefoot was a massive downgrade. What I'm saying is, barely anyone (aside from 5-10 nu guns nerds) gave a shit about Fortus back then - most were either watching Bucket or Bumble. That hasn't really changed. People still don't give a shit -- they're watching Slash now.

Dude can punch his guitar 50 times in a song and pull an orgasm face on every solo but the spotlight is on Sir Slash.

I don't get the obsession with his technical ability - like that makes up for his lack of personality or songwriting skills. If that's all it takes to be in guns, they should just replace him with bumblefoot. At least hire someone with some personality like Dave Navarro. His solo on "oh my god" is more memorable than anything Fortus has ever done with guns.

He can be in guns for 50 years but he's not and never will be a true gunner. Most dont even consider Dizzy to be one.

People seem to think that just because the guy has some technical chops that he's apparently a great fit for the band. Why not just hire Steve Vai then or put Bumblefoot in his place so he can shred the fuck out of everything?

No matter how many pretenders they bring in, Izzy will never be replaced.

Izzy never missed a single gnr gig even when he was a full blown heroin junkie. This whole " Izzy is unreliable" schtick is a revisionist Axl fairytale. Let's not forget that Izzy was the only guy who showed up in Chicago ready to work on UYI material -- he stopped giving a shit once he saw how the band was in total disarray (mostly due to Axl not showing up as usual).

Izzy didn't record as much stuff for UYI because by the time the band got their shit together, he had already mentally checked out. Those Chicago UYI sessions destroyed the morale of the old band as Duff mentioned in his book.

As for VR, he didn't want to deal with a lead singer (turns out he saw the writing on the wall with Scott). He offered to share singing duties with Duff - Slash didn't go for it and that was that. 

Ironic that conjecture of his so called "unreliability" is coming mainly from the redhead who is the textbook definition of unreliable.

Izzy was cut out of rejoining the band over money -- it's the only explanation that makes sense. The guy who cofounded the band and wrote more than half the band's catalogue is nowhere to be seen.

Meanwhile, you have some sadly deluded people on this forum talking about how a journeyman session guitarist is a better fit for gnr than Izzy because he played izzys songs on tour and collected a paycheck from Axl for 15 yrs. And now apparently he's even a better lead guitarist than Slash and needs to share in lead guitar duties for GNR. There are even people here who consider the bumblefoot years to be the glory days of guns (i am not making this up). The guns fanbase is like the Republican party -- batshit crazy.

One of Izzy's last interviews before he quit the band (sheds a lot of light on the UYI sessions):

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/vox91.htm

The big 3 (probably just slash and axl) probably don't want to split the gigantic payday in equal shares. Let's not forget --- Izzy left the partnership and as such could only come back as a salaried employee unless he's brought back into the partnership. Given how much money they are making on this tour, I doubt they want to split it 4 ways. Dollars to donuts it's all over money why Izzy is being cut out of this.

Remember, Izzy chose to quit the band rather than sign Axl's contract to get demoted and become an employee. No fuckin' way he comes back to the band as a hired hand. 

Any direction that involves releasing music. Like Slash said, "Let's just be guns n'fuckin roses". Hopefully if there is a next album, they go that road rather than copying the next pearl jam/NIN sounding band and then spending another decade air brushing it with pro tools. No more quests for groundbreaking experimental music.

I'd love to see a true follow-up to UYI 2. More stuff like Locomotive, pretty tied up, and YCBM.

Nothing against the guy, but he's pretty cheesy on stage. The whole thing about guns is that they were effortlessly cool ( see Duff and Izzy). Axl and Slash could showboat and pull it off because they both were badass. 

Fortus and his constant guitar punching and orgasm faces seem a bit OTT. Needless to say, it comes off a bit forced and poser-ish.

But hey -- apparently the guy is so amazing that people here think Slash should share his solos with him 

1 hour ago, tsinindy said:

I pray to the gods of rock you aren't actually serious.

You're in the minority here bro. Chinese democracy was cutting edge and I want more of it. More industrial with Dave grohl sounding drums and pearl jam/grunge style rock. This will make guns sound hip and current. Afd and UYI are soooo dated.

What they need to do is bring Bumblefoot back into the band. I love hearing him shred on Patience, Don't Cry, and Catcher in the Rye. We need three guitarists. So much emotion in his playing. I wouldn't mind a third keyboard player to lay down some more industrial/techno soundscapes. 

Such a stupid topic. Richard is incredible. The guy is soo underrated, he should be lead guitar for guns. He can play circles around Slash and Buckethead. Everybody here knows this.

And who cares about Izzy? Only mulletheads. Richard has so much more stage presence. I love how he punches his guitar and makes those guitargasm faces during every song. I wish he would do it more. Slash should hang back and stop showboating so Richard can shine more. 

Industrial NIN/limp bizkit sounding stuff with some techno-rock like Moby/prodigy. Please no afd/uyi mullet rock. Also Fortus should play lead since he's been in the band the longest -- it could be Axl's way of thanking him.

this is like the colts without p manning

CAN YOU JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ? ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS WHINE THIS ENTIRE THREAD. YOUR HERO CHOSE TO STAY HOME LIKE A PUSSY. SORRY THAT CHAPS YOUR ASS. LET THE REST OF US ENJOY GUNS N FUCKIN ROSES WITHOUT YOU GETTING MENSTRUAL CRAMPS EVERY 10 SECONDS.

This is like the worst of all outcomes for Axl.

He is getting hammered in the press, and will look like an even bigger chump when Slash/Duff//Steven are up there performing GNR songs and apologizing that Axl wouldn't show up. It will just make him look like a small little man that he had a huge tantrum and the show still went on without him. They will put on a kick ass performance, and people will be even more down on Axl.

Yep. This all just completely backfired on Axl because instead of folding, the guys are just going to roll with it and put on a kickass show.

Good to see Gilby back in action as well....he always had great chemistry with the old band B)

With Myles there, this will just be a Slash PR event, promoting his new album. They'll even advertise it, I'd bet. He and his management are great businessmen.

An artist doing PR for his album is a novel concept to Axl fans apparently

I'm curious why Duff didn't call Axl....it's clear that they are on friendly terms now.....

New Guns aren't even a band in the traditional sense. They never release music and are touring behind an album where 3 of the main members quit years ago. Now its simply one guy showing up in a limo 2 hrs late to a show while his band members wait for him. How does this qualify as a band or for induction into the hall of fame?

He's got some phenomenal players but nobody will ever know how good they are because their music is sitting in a vault somewhere getting pro-tooled out the ass for the next decade.

I used to post here under the name Sly Stallone years ago (before I got banned by Madison)....just came out of retirement to say that Axl did exactly what everyone expected of him. Disappoint his fans and embarass himself on a grand scale once again.

Yeah I get it, he hates the old band and does not want to be in the same room with them. Aside from how petty and childish that is for a 50 year old man, that's his prerogative.

Here's my question to all of you "Axl is the last rockstar/rebel/god on earth" people....why wait until 3 days before the ceremony to drop this turd on the fanbase? He had 4 f*cking months to figure out what almost every gnr fan predicted would happen. Why write a long winded "me against the world" rant? Why not just pull an Izzy or release a short statement declining interest in attending?

I'll tell you why. He gave an impossible demand to the HOF (induct his entire entourage/band/or remove Matt Sorum) and they told him to fuck off. So he ranted like a child and ruined his already tattered reputation in front of his peers as well as ruin the big moment to pay tribute for what GnR accomplished. Needless to say, he ruined the night for his band members but that was expected.

All the guy had to do was show up, accept the award and go home. But he chose to be a drama queen as always. So predictable and sad. He would have won over so many people by letting bygones be bygones and it would have showed a rare moment of class on his part.

There is nothing rock n' roll or rebellious about this. He is not badass or cool for doing this. If he really wanted to be badass, he would have showed up and ranted on stage or released a one line statement congratulating his former bandmates and telling the RNRHOF to fuck off. He did neither. He just played victim as we all predicted he would. Truly badass behavior from a 50 year old man.

I hope the old members have a great time there and ignore the red head completely. Or even better, dedicate the award to him. That would be hilarious.

What exactly has the CD era done to deserve to be included? Hell, a few of the musicians on that album had already bailed by time it was released. FFS, the stage wouldn't even be big enough if they were to induct every single person that passed through the GnR revolving door.

They lost both lead guitarists from that era (Bucket and Finck) plus the original drummer (brain).

That's what is the most baffling thing about the fanboys of new gnr. They love chinese democracy but fail to comprehend that the principals of that band (minus axl) are all gone of their own volition. Who is to blame for this? Slash? The Industry? Dr. Pepper?

I get it that these people love Axl Rose, but wake up and embrace reality.

Even if you love this new iteration of the band (based on the new tour??), I don't know how anyone can view the loss of Bucket, Brain, and Finck as anything but a downgrade. If anything it only proves the theory that everybody in this band is expendable. Every Axl/new guns fan went on and on about how awesome the 2002 lineup was and yet these same fans barely cared when the principals all left.

Who is left from the original lineup of new guns? Tommy Stinson? You can barely even hear him on Chinese Democracy. So what exactly are these people fans of? The touring band playing Chinese Democracy and AFD/UYI covers?

Can any fan of the new band clear this up?