GoodOlJohnnyK
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Posts posted by GoodOlJohnnyK
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Spent the morning with the officially released single, and listened to it immediately after also listening to the Village Leaks version.
Overall, of course, my opinion is unchanged on this song. It's just not for me. I think it's a boring dirge - maybe a good idea, but not fleshed out enough to be a full song. There are some upsides though:
THE GOOD
1. The recording does sound better, for the most part. The Village Leak version is way too busy, for such a simple song. At first I thought I'd miss the lead riff throughout the verses, but I don't. They just distracted from the verse melody. Similarly, the band was wise to remove the high lead line on the "I want to know how it feels..." section. It was needless and a little annoying. The new version with the backing vocals singing a simple ascending "oooh" line with the chord changes is much more effective and actually builds the song with a touch of subtlety, which is nice once in a while from this band. It's also the most 'natural' sounding of the three released singles. Absurd was cool, but it sounded like Slash threw a fresh coat of paint on an old song. Hard Skool is my favorite of the bunch, but in that case it sounds like they shoehorned Axl's old vocals onto a modern track. This song is 20 years old, but if I didn't know that, I likely wouldn't be able to tell. That's a good thing.
2. Slash and Duff, like on Absurd and Hard Skool, simply make this song better. I just won't accept any "the NuGuns fit the song better" bullshit. The NuGuns version sounds like everything else from that era - a bunch of very talented virtuosos playing over each other rather than with each other. This is better than that, and it's because of Slash and Duff. Their parts are slapped on to an existing track, yet somehow still sound more organic and 'fit' the song better than the original tracks did. Slash's verse riff is down in the mix in a good way - the type of riffing we saw a lot on the Illusions, where you have to actually listen for it rather than having it knock you on the head. Duff's bass is prominent, if maybe a *shade* too high in the mix, but I'm not gonna pick that nit. It's a good bassline and it gives the track a bit more swing.
3. TouchTunes fiasco aside, it is nice to see them release something, whether I like it or not. More importantly, they even went so far as to release an actual music video. Live/backstage footage or not, it's refreshing and encouraging to see something resembling effort and a real release from a band of this magnitude. I don't know what it means for the future, and I refuse to get my hopes up, but for one day it feels like something actually happened, and I'll take that.
THE BAD
1. Not *all* of the mixing decisions were good. I personally find the drums way too low in the mix - there are moments where the snare in particular gets totally lost or just sounds weak.
Furthermore, I thought the addition of the low vocal was a nice touch...but they mixed it too high and at the expense of the *vastly* superior high octave. That scratchy high octave vocal was the best part of the song! Pumping the lower octave up in the mix lessens its impact. Also - that's not the 'demon' voice from Shackler's Revenge, as others have stated. It's just Axl doing a lower octave in the style of Brownstone or Bad Obsession. The demon voice is something different (and likely wouldn't fit this song anyway).
2. Slash's solo is not as bad as everyone says it is, and Robin's wasn't anything special. But it is kind of aimless. There are a few issues with the solo, and one of them isn't Slash's fault: starting the solo a beat early is part of the issue with the transition. It starts on the 8 beat, or on the "4-and," and it's jarring. It sounds like a minor squibble, but it's not - it causes the transition to sound clunky. They actually do the same thing on the demo, but it's not as emphasized due to the mix, and Robin's high bend sort of covers for it. Furthermore, the solo starts good and then just meanders and ends. I think the issue is that the solo section is too short. Slash underplays it at first, which is fine, but then it's never given time to build. Given that these things are often comped together, I'd be curious to hear what Axl and Caram left on the cutting room floor, because something tells me the solo could have been quite good if they'd doubled the amount of bars and actually let it build to something. But they didn't, so it's just there until it's not.
3. The song itself still doesn't have enough going on. It's the bones of the song that are too brittle for me. The verse melody isn't captivating at all, and the "heys" and "mmmmmmaaaaaahhhh"'s and other vocalizations only further accentuate that there's simply not enough substance there. The decision to put two verses back to back to start the song is also a major mistake - that first chorus takes *way* too long to get to. I don't know what else they would have done, but I think that's the point - there's no section of the existing song that would have worked as a transition or bridge, and so they should have written one. This song is undercooked. There's the foundation of a song here, but they didn't see it through, as evidenced by the lyric. They didn't finish it. It's just two verses, a chorus, a solo, a verse, and a chorus. Which would be fine, if it were something catchier and punchier, but it's not - it's plodding and stilted and it just simply needs something else.
4. The lyrics are also half-baked. I don't know what happened to the razor sharp wit and silver tongued lyricist who wrote Locomotive, Breakdown, Dead Horse, and Coma, but he's not here. There's vague and then there's lazy. This is the latter.
THE SURPRISINGLY HAPPY ENDING
I'm actually thrilled that this is out, because I hate the song so fucking much I just wanted it released so we could go on speculating about the *next* release, if there was ever going to be one.
I was actually sad, because I was certain that this would come out and that the next one would be either Atlas Shrugged or State of Grace, two songs I also loathe. I figured that all I had to look forward to was bitching about another bad song. Thankfully, and surprisingly, we got the news today that the next release is The General, which is a song I haven't heard outside of a muffled guitar line that could be slightly made out over a barrage of bar chatter. Now *that's* something newish. That's something I haven't heard. And that's something to be cautiously optimistic about. So on a day where Guns N' Roses released a song I don't like, I'm somehow left with some hope for the rest of the summer as we inch closer to The General's release. And that's something!
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A lot of bands have a keyboard - if not live, then certainly in the studio as a pad to fill out the sound. It's often subtle and low in the mix, but it's there more often than you'd think. The idea is to not stick out.
Not sure how much it helps live, though. Her main function live seems to be hitting high harmonies or filling out Axl's voice.
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2 minutes ago, Bitchisback said:
It's hilarious that the song is both brand new and also a classic rewind.
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1 minute ago, Martin Riggs said:
I assume the gesture towards radio in the US is because they’re hoping they can help them promote the numerous upcoming dates that have very sluggish sales.
Yeah, it's interesting that this has a little more push than Absurd and Hard Skool. It's giving borderline "uh oh" energy, with regards to ticket sales.
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3 minutes ago, zombux said:
just look at them and then contemplate if your question is even necessary.
Huh?
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1 hour ago, Martin Riggs said:
According to a press release, per Audacy, the song was “written and recorded by Axl Rose, Slash, and Duff McKagan this year,” and marks their “first collective new composition and recording together in 30 years”
The band released this statement?
How on Earth could they call this a new composition?
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2 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:
It’s “success” or however you want to measure it shouldn’t matter to us. It’s impossible to compare to the past.
Agreed!
2 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:Do you enjoy the song or not?
No, certainly not.
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Here's the Diceman backstage with Duff and Tom Mayhue from Dice's Instagram:
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I know he's an acquired taste and not really relevant in 2023, but I always make it a point to go see Andrew Dice Clay when he's in the Baltimore/DC area. I love him. He's hilarious.
Here's a vid from his Instagram with Duff and everyone's favorite, Tom Mayhue:
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1 minute ago, jamillos said:
Otherwise we'd end up with another NuGNR Up Close and Personal DJ Out of Tune Starts Now Trickery.
And half this forum would applaud and call it an improvement.
Strange days.
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I would imagine it gets a release on New Music Friday - so tonight at midnight.
I'm reserving my comments on the new recording til then. I listened via TouchTunes on Sunday, but I'd like to hear it in my studio set up to get the full experience. I don't know why, but I'm even iffy on the quality of radio/digital radio.
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52 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:
I'm sure this is the third time this has been discussed in the last week or two 😂
Yes, he played on both. Not sure why it was ever in doubt, but he's confirmed it anyway
Well I'm a semi-regular here and I haven't seen it discussed. I'm not running through every thread every morning to sift through 49 new pages of "Robin Finck is better than Slash" to figure out if Richard played on Absurd. That's why I asked.
It's not that I doubted, per se. But if Frank's not on the new songs, it made me wonder if Richard was.
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2 minutes ago, Dangom1 said:
Didn't Slash say they would release most of the leftovers and then look at new material?
Now usually I'd be like "never gonna happen" but everything Slash has said has so far come to fruition so who knows
At this rate, that “new material” likely wouldn’t materialize for another 5 years or so.
Gotta figure there’s at least 3 more songs in the can - State of Grace and Atlas Shrugged and possibly The General.
That will, at the very least, cover the *next* North American tour, probably in about 2025 or so. Then even if they wanted to start writing and recording, that would be 2026. So then I’d estimate the official release date would be 2027 at the earliest. Which means, after the inevitable delays and false starts, we’re looking at 2028. I just don’t see it happening.
1 minute ago, Blackstar said:Associated Performer,
Guitar: Richard Fortus
Did Richard play on Absurd and Hard Skool? I remember speculation that Slash just played all the guitars on those, but don’t know if that was ever confirmed.
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Of all the legitimate reasons to hate this single, I don’t understand the hate for the cover art.
I think it’s actually pretty clever.
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I’m just glad you posted first. I didn’t want the first post to be me saying that, officially released or not, the song’s still a boring, aimless piece of shit.
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1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:
Down on the farm. And usually for the Duff sung songs. He used it on I wanna be your dog last year.
The Seeker as well, at least in 2016.
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1 hour ago, WhazUp said:I think Slash's solo sounds totally fine with Perhaps, in fact the double tracking the solo and having it be a more bend-oriented long note thing in parts gives me George Harrison vibes in delivery especially the ending bit after the bent double stops
I have always felt the hate for Slash's approach post-reunion has been overdramatic, I am not saying every improv lands but he still sounds good to me overall and definitely not nearly as bad as some make him out to be especially regarding the CD stuff
I agree with all of this.
Forget about Beta and Fernando: no one gets beat up on here as needlessly as Slash. Fucking guy’s out there slaying Double Talkin’ Jive and the solo spot every single night with fresh improvs that kill. He improvises through the classics because, like most players, he gets tired of playing the same fucking thing every night, and people lose their minds.
I’d take a Slash with broken thumbs over the bleep bloop fire alarm bullshit his successors brought to the band.
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19 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:
We've all had this discussion many times, but I think TB were in the right place at the right time. They facilitated the call when Axl told them to make it happen... They didn't talk him into or suggest reuniting with Slash, if anything they actively worked against it for years. I don't think they can take credit for the reunion or its success
Had Doc been the manager in 2014/2015 when nuGNR was on the slide, he would probably have been responsible for the reunion tours, same goes for Irving and any manager that wasn't connected to the 90s split.
This.
Axl himself credited Paul Tollett of Coachella for getting the wheels rolling.
I’m assuming that he offered Axl an obscene amount of money to get Guns N’ Roses to headline Coachella, and made it clear that the offer hinged on getting Slash and Duff back. The money talked, and eventually so did Axl and Slash.
Axl simply told Fernando to reach out to Slash’s team to initiate a conversation and, fair play to Fernando - he did. He did his job. But NITL happened because Axl wanted it and Slash agreed, and it seems to have worked out for everyone in the end.
I’ll disagree that TB was against the reunion, though. When Axl told Fernando to call Slash, Fernando’s reply was something along the lines of “if this is a joke…” which implied, to me, that Fernando may have pushed for this before and was finally getting what he wanted. I could be wrong, of course. I was thoroughly checked out of this band post-2008 so I don’t have any recollection of anything disputing that.
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This might be a bit of a stretch, but Michael Jackson from 1979 on, where he really found his footing as a solo artist.
Leaving out the Jackson 5 stuff, which I understand is a big part of it - Michael Jackson was on top of the world. He released a handful of smash hit albums, including one of the biggest and greatest albums ever in Thriller. Guns had Appetite.
Blockbuster tours and fans screaming his name. Dominated the late 80s and early 90s.
His last release in the early 90s was a huge success, if perhaps a little bloated and overwrought.
Then there were some personal problems, to put it lightly - this would be Guns' breakup moment.
Then he became a joke to the press, like Axl.
Then he had a comeback album in the 2000s that tried to update his sound, but didn't quite hit the way he wanted it to.
Then he just regressed back into being into being a recluse.
Then he announced a big comeback tour (This Is It).
Unfortunately, this is where it ended for Michael. But for a while, I thought their trajectories could be at least comparable (although Michael was truly on another level in terms of fame). Still, he's gone now and Guns N' Roses are not. So, new music or no new music, I'm glad they're still around and lived to fight another day.
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1 minute ago, Voodoochild said:The most unexpected turn of events is that Beta was actually Pele's friend
Not quite as unexpected as I thought, considering I thought you meant Pele the guy who used to post here.
Now that would have blown my mind.
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1 hour ago, Its Tino said:
That being said, I like Scraped.
I find the lyric to be a bit trite and I could do without the intro, but I quite like the song too.
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5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:
Touchtune is many orders of magnitude smaller than Spotify, and it wasn't necessarily they who weren't at work but someone in the link of people between whoever made the decision to pull it off TT and the nerd who had the job of actually removing it. I doubt Fernando had a direct line to the guy, it must have gone through people on the way, delaying the relay.
I’m not blaming Fernando.
I just find it wild that TouchTunes wouldn’t be able to handle something like this. My previous employer was magnitudes smaller than TouchTunes, but if the software malfunctioned or went down on a weekend, someone was available to fix it immediately. That’s not uncommon.
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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:
Hmm? As I understand him, he is saying that some of the criticism has racial connotation, but far from all and not even necessarily here. So when you turn this into someone saying that ALL criticism of TB here is racially motivated, I don't feel that is a fair depiction of what is being said.
This is splitting hairs to an extreme degree.
1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:They probably didn't work in the weekend.
But isn’t that nuts? Obviously this isn’t a Guns management thing, but you’re telling me that on a Saturday, TouchTunes just…shuts down? It’s a service provided to thousands of bars across the US and, apparently, the UK! That’d be like Spotify not answering the phone if they accidentally leaked Perhaps.
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Just now, Voodoochild said:
Then suddenly everything went sour after the band deleted the music on the jukebox app - which should be more than expected. That's what I thought was overly critical and negative.
To try and get this thread back on course, the biggest surprise to me out of this whole debacle was how long it took to get the song taken down off of TouchTunes.
I didn’t check the forum at all on Saturday. I was only informed of the leak when I looked at Facebook on Sunday evening and Rolling Stone had written an article about it. I figured I’d missed my chance. I couldn’t *believe* it was still up by Sunday night. I figured it would have been taken down.
Perhaps - New Guns N' Roses Single - Discussion
in GUNS N' ROSES - DISCUSSION & NEWS
Posted
Either way, it doesn't work.
Listening back to it, it sounds like they added the vocal effect to make the vocals sound more current with the backing track. It certainly worked better this time than it did on Hard Skool.
I always associated it with Mary Jane's Last Dance, by Tom Petty. But that song, Sweet Home Alabama, and Dani California also share a sort of bouncy rhythm that I'm not crazy about.