GoodOlJohnnyK

7 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Axl said that CD II is done in the China Exchange interview. That was years before the locker leaks.

If you have the time, could you point out where he says that, if you happen to remember? I've watched that interview two or three times since it came out and I don't recall him saying that.

1 minute ago, JimiRose said:

seems rather coincidental that the first 3 songs we've got from this 'massive vault' of GnR songs were all on the locker leaks... especially when you consider Atlas is one of the next rumoured. And the general which we've known about and had cell phone leak of. Suggest to me, its highly unlikely there are tracks with completed vocals that we have no prior knowledge about already. 

I agree. There's a reason that the first three singles happen to be three leaks that we've heard *with* vocals.

1 minute ago, JimiRose said:

unless those things are done on purpose..?

If they were, it was a bad call.

And I don't think they were. The skewed timing of the verses on Absurd is intentional. The slight break in timing before the second verse of Shackler's Revenge is intentional. Those are meant to make the songs sound industrial and electronic - those things are staples of the genre.

But choppy vocal edits in TWAT and Scraped and others and strangely dry overdubs are just poor editing.

26 minutes ago, kingcanyon said:

Axl could have a vocal comeback if he takes 5 years of. Who thought in 2014 that he was done and his voice would never come then 2016 happened and he came back better than he had a couple of years before. 

Axl has surprised us many times in the past and I'd expect him to surprise at least one more time before he retires

Could be, but it's more than just his vocal quality. 5 years off is 5 more years out of the spotlight and 5 more years of irrelevance. If they take 5 years off, I'd doubt they'd be able to come back to fill baseball parks - especially not in the USA.

On 8/13/2023 at 11:59 AM, ZoSoRose said:

I feel like HS is an ideal GNR single in this day and age. Am I on crazy pills? Guitar riffs, Slash solo that’s actually thought out and fits the song, lots of lead guitar, Axl screaming chorus…

What is there to not like?

I'm with you, to a point.

Hard Skool is probably the closest thing to a 'traditional' sounding Guns N' Roses release. I suppose Perhaps could be considered the same, but I'm of the opinion that the song itself is garbage. Hard Skool has some merit as a song, and it sounds like what people expect Guns N' Roses to sound like for all the reasons you listed.

The problem is threefold:

1.) The natural progression of time and its effect on pop culture. This has been repeated ad nauseum on here, so I won't go into it again, but basically: Guns N' Roses aren't a big deal anymore, culturally.

2.) Hard Skool is certainly good (to me) but not great. 

And, in my opinion most importantly:

3.) They kinda blew their "New Guns N' Roses!" load on Absurd. The first recorded music featuring Axl Rose and Slash since 1994 was still a big enough deal to get *some* decent press coverage when they did it. Unfortunately, they chose Absurd - which is a song that I like, but is a song that I also understand that the majority of the audience *wouldn't*. It was an awful choice for a single. It also doesn't help that it just appeared out of nowhere. They played it in Boston and then a few days later it just appeared on streaming services. But Guns N' Roses doesn't carry the cultural significance required to have a surprise release be a big deal anymore. Taylor Swift could drop a surprise album tomorrow and it'd be the biggest thing ever. Guns N' Roses aren't like that anymore.

Their first single back needed some actual hype and publicity. Guns N' Roses - the real Guns N' Roses! - is back. It needed to be a big deal, and it needed to be advertised heavily. Of course, there would always be half the audience who wouldn't like the single no matter what, simply because so many people make up their minds that what you're working on now can't possibly be as good as what you did before, but it would have been something. And Hard Skool - while not a classic or even in the top tier of Guns N' Roses songs - was probably close enough to what people are used to getting out of the band to make them nod their heads and say "sounds alright."

Leading with Absurd made anybody who was even morbidly curious turn up their nose and say "this sucks," which kind of mars anything that come after it. Add that to the fact that in just about any article written about it, it's spelled out to people that these are in fact Chinese Democracy leftovers re-recorded with Slash and Duff. You don't have to be familiar with the Village Leaks to know that these songs aren't "new." That strains the perception of them as well.

And each time they repeat this process, each single becomes less and less potent. They're all just Chinese Democracy leftovers, released with little fanfare, whether they're good songs or not.

13 minutes ago, The Real McCoy said:

Please let someone with a clue as to how the music business works take over managing this band. I’m begging you. 

Not only does this not make sense from a human standpoint - why would these people willingly unemploy themselves? - but it also doesn't work that way from an operational standpoint. They don't hire the hypothetical next manager. That's Axl. They serve one client: Axl Rose. 

19 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Nearly every single album is made this way. Ok not to the extent of CD, but generally a band writes a song together. When it's recorded all parts are done separately. this process can be weeks, months, years. they over dub. re record. edit, play around on pro tools. change the solo again, re record. individually. It's just a myth that CD is soulless because of how it's recorded. Its more likely to be you dont particularly like the songs, and an easy reason is because you know how it was recorded and use that as a reason. i dont think bands have gone into the studio and recorded albums 'live' in the same room for decades. I know Slash tries to with SMKC and the foos did a few times on tape over pro tools, but it just isnt really done anymore.

Of course, albums are created through editing and splicing - which is why producing and engineering is an artwork of its own. 

The problem with CD isn't that it's edited together - it's that it *sounds like it.* There are several choppy vocal cuts, several points where you can quite literally hear an edit. Some instruments have a healthy room sound - others sound direct into the mixing desk, all within the same track.

13 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I wonder if when Perhaps was pulled from TouchTunes, if it was abruptly cut off on any machines it happened to be playing on at that time. 

Both of them?

25 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Was t sure where to ask this, but since you brought it up, I saw somewhere that the band is gonna “take a break for 5 years” after this tour…

Anyone here know if that’s true?

I haven’t read anything like that, so I doubt it very much.

That would be the end of the band, more or less. Axl’s voice sounds awful now, I can’t imagine what 5 extra years are going to do to it. 

66 year old Guns N’ Roses will not be a Stones-like concert draw, trust me.

1 minute ago, Makkun said:

Idk how is the US panorama but, teenagers still listening to radio nowadays? 

No, not really. People still listen to radio, of course, but not nearly as much as streaming. And radio doesn’t break songs anymore - they become popular online and then the radio play picks up.

I was just being sarcastic. This isn’t going to be a radio smash.

4 minutes ago, NachoLZ said:

It's sad also cuz Slash and Duff are back, you would think they would get a new management layer or something, for example, the 2016 NITL april's fool thing was kickass, Axl was going to be in Jimmy Kimmel announcing the reunion (cancelled), it seemed like they would be like very profesional when it comes to public relations.

Don’t forget: they joined Axl’s band. With Axl’s management. And Axl’s management does what Axl tells them to do. It’s this way by design. Next time you’re upset with a management decision, don’t just look to Fernando and Beta: our redheaded friend is the one calling the shots.

(It’s also worth noting that Axl’s management, for all of their mishaps, also put on one of the most profitable tours of all time. It hasn’t all been bad, especially if you’re Slash and Duff.)

2 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

The fact BRIAN MAY played on turds like Atlas Shrugged and Riad is hilarious to me. It's like putting perfume on a dog turd.

Don't forget that our current lead guitarist is a guitar legend in the same class as Mr. May, and he just played on Perhaps. Sometimes, there's just not enough polish in the world.

5 minutes ago, NachoLZ said:

When does this year's tour end? To have some kind of date of The General, same as Hard Skool that was released near the end of the 2021 tour.

The North American leg runs through mid-October.

11 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

the transition at the beginning of the solo stood out for me from the first listen, and not in a good way.

This is something I read about on the forums, but didn't hear myself when I listened to the song. Possibly because the bartender chose this moment to try and refill my drink, so I was distracted. I'll have to give it another listen.

12 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't believe Atlas will be next. And that's because it has a similar "vibe" with Perhaps - both mid-tempo songs that even share some common themes in the lyrics (weight on the shoulder), so the next one would have to be something different. It would be either Atlas or Perhaps this year, and they chose Perhaps.

This is actually an interesting perspective. I hadn't thought about it this way. You're right.

It does bring up another beef I have with Chinese Democracy and much of the Village Leaks: there is so much mid-tempo to slower-ploddy stuff and not nearly enough uptempo, fast tunes. I think that's why I like Tonto and even Mustache so much - they have some pep in their step. 

The great Elvis Presley once said "As a general rule, an audience always goes for a fast number." He's right. They need to release something with some speed to it.

32 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

If you showed people tracks like TWAT, SOD, TIL, Better, etc, and just said it’s Slash, people would regard CD as one of the best albums of all time.

Best of all time? I can't go that far with you.

It's a good album. Way better than expected and way better than people give it credit for (though it actually received a pretty good and fair evaluation from critics). Yet If The World, Scraped, Riad, and IRS are clunkers. Even the title track and Sorry are only okay. Prostitute and This I Love are a little better than those, but I wouldn't call them classics. The true worthy additions to the GnR canon, to these ears, are Shackler's, Better, SoD, TWAT, Catcher, and Madagascar. Which makes a pretty good album, but not one of the best albums or all time, or even one of the best Guns N' Roses albums of all time.

Even if Slash was on it, or people were told he was, people would pick apart its flaws and, more importantly - Slash or no Slash - it's just not what people necessarily want to hear from Guns N' Roses. The songs don't have the strength of the songs on U2's Achtung Baby that allowed the band to move from their 'traditional' sound to a more experimental, electronic one. 

It's not strictly a matter of wishing Slash was still in the band - the songs weren't all the way there. Even some of the A+ songs could've used some tightening up - TWAT is a triumph due to the verses and outro section, but the chorus is bad and it's overproduced to hell. Madagascar is incredible, but I get sort of taken out of the song every time I hear Dr. King's speech - it works perfectly to build the solo section's momentum, but it's still the I Have a Dream speech! It's a good album, but not their best, and that's coming from a fan of it.

Re: the 'employee' discussion. Slash and Duff are voting partners in anything involving classic-era GnR, but I believe everything now is all Axl's, isn't it? Didn't they effectively segment the two sides of business? So, for example, if Axl wanted to release a live DVD featuring songs from Appetite and UYI, or any merch featuring the classic logos, he needed Slash and Duff's approval. But I believe that everything since then has been, technically, a different 'company.'

Whether or not they're employees, I don't believe Slash and Duff have the same voting powers or say in the band's current business decisions that they did in the original incarnation of the band. This, of course, is all my conjecture.

Also, it's almost moot - they rejoined the band with different perspectives. I don't think they really care about releasing new music as Guns N' Roses. They'd rather just get along with their old friend Axl, play arenas and stadiums, and keep the peace and the money flowing. That's why they don't sound as clued-in as we'd expect them to be - they probably aren't, and I don't think it bothers them.

---

In other news, I *really* don't get the love for Buckethead. People complain that Slash overplays now and it's all just a bunch of mindless notes, but then yearn for the days of...Buckethead or even Bumblefoot? They're two of the most mindless shredders of them all. The only solo Buckethead has done that I could appreciate is TWAT. Everything else is just gratuitous fretboard porn. The only other solos on Chinese Democracy worth a damn are Robin Finck's.

6 minutes ago, kingcanyon said:

its classic axl sounds what are you talking about

Yeah, and the "yeah!" and "Ooooh!" and ending each line with an "-ah" is a classic James Hetfield sound. But it can be overdone and silly. This is a case of that.

Also - did I miss something? Earlier in the thread someone implied that Slash and Duff approached Axl with these songs, and Axl said okay or at least didn't say 'no.' Why do we think this? Was this stated in an interview somewhere?

It was my understanding that Axl told Slash and Duff 'these are the next songs I want to release,' and they got to work. Not the other way around.

A few offhand comments regarding the song:

I'm still just not a fan of the bones of this song. It's death by mid-tempo. Axl's vocal tone doesn't really do it for me at all, and a lot of that is likely down to the fact that there's just not enough going on melodically in the verse. The "hey heys" and the "uuuUUUUUUAAAAH"s just sound silly, almost like filler pieces in place of where a better melody might have gone. The chorus *begins* good - the scratchy, angry sounding Axl vocal - until the "you're all alooooone" line, which resolves the melody in a way I find to be dissatisfying.

Even worse, for such a short song, it feels like it goes on forever. Probably because, again, the "hey heys" make each verse seem twice as long as it is. Meanwhile, following the solo, the song just...starts over again for a whole new cycle. It's as if the band came up with a verse and a chorus but couldn't come up with another part to the song.

I'll hold off on commenting on the backing track - it didn't sound drastically different to my ears, but I have a feeling I was sitting next to the left speaker, so it's possible that some more sonic action was going on on the right side of the bar that I didn't hear as well because I had the rhythm guitar pumped so strong on my side. I'll give it another listen in an hour or so - there's a bar just next door.

Slash's solo isn't great but, to be fair, I think Robin's is overhyped as well. Both of them are just guitar solos slapped onto a song. Robin's might work better, but it's still nothing mind-blowing.

I *really* don't hear any of the Catcher In The Rye comparisons, other than they're both piano-driven tunes. Catcher has so much more going on melodically, its structure is magnificent, it has a beautiful solo, and the ending manages to push the song to an epic conclusion. It's a masterpiece. Catcher In The Rye sounds like the end of innocence, like losing a friend, like losing a time in your life. Perhaps sounds like you walked into a shitty saloon at a cheap, Wild West-themed amusement park to buy a $14 soda and $18 chicken tenders while a low-rate bar band attempts to play "Mary Jane's Last Dance."

That said, I'm thrilled that this song is out. I want it out of the way. It's a bummer that it's going to take up a setlist spot, but so be it. Still, I'm glad it's released because it means we're closer to them releasing the other two shitty songs they have left - Atlas Shrugged and State of Grace - and then maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to hear something unreleased that I actually like. Hopefully The General doesn't suck, if I ever get to hear it.

3 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

Him and Duff just randomly decided to do it during the pandemic when they had nothing else to do (obviously without Axl really being on board, considering Axl's reluctance to do anything new for the songs). 

What? Where did you get any of this from?

2 hours ago, MANEK said:

Again, nobody cares if your wife/girlfriend thinks it’s crazy that you care

Fair play, then, because I don’t give a fuck what you think about what I post.

16 minutes ago, Theleech said:

I don’t get all the people in here whinging about solos, vocals etc of a phone leak.

Mine wasn’t a phone leak. I’m in a US city with many bars around me with TouchTunes. The song is still available right now as we speak.

I went to a local bar, which was empty, and played it twice on a sound system.

The complains are valid.

Went to my local bar and played it twice.

Not great. Just not great at all.

I’m a major Slash fan and borderline apologist, but I thought the solo started out promising and then just went nowhere.

I, of course, was limited by the bar’s sound system, but I didn’t like the lower octave harmony in the chorus as others seem to. It’s mixed too high and overpowers the higher octave, which is unfortunately the only part of this song worth listening to.

Just now, ZoSoRose said:

My fiancé thinks this is the dumbest shit and constantly tells me these aren’t “new” songs and doesn’t understand why I care about 20+ year old songs that I have already heard but also haven’t

holy shit we are dumb 

My girl doesn’t get *any* of it.

”They just rarely ever put out new music, so this is kind of a-“

”…why would they?! They’re rich! Why would they waste their time?! You’re lucky they’re touring! If I had that kind of money, no one would ever see me again! Fans? Fuck the fans! Let me fuck around and get that kind of money - I’d never leave the house again! If we were married and you were Slash or your buddy Axl, you think I’d put up with you leaving for weeks at a time to go on tour even?! No! You’re lucky they’re even doing that!”