facefirst

4 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I am not doubting that you weren't compensated a lot, and that sucks. Artists deserve more for their work. But to say you wouldn't get compensation spelled out before starting a job is just asking for it. Even if its a pain in the ass, it only protects you. You are owed what is written. It may not be right, but that is how it works.

 

Again, no merch company is working with an artist who needs a new contract for every piece of merch that he/she designs.  Sure, that sounds like a sound business move but it would be a one way ticket to not working. There were agreements in place that were established when I first started working with Global. There was NEVER any notification that terms had changed until after the fact. Had there been, I would have never done the work. 

Just now, guitarpatch said:

Contracts aren’t always necessary in this case. Especially with situations where you’ve already have done work You are right there 
 

However those lithos at no reserve auctions are still going for premium prices. You have one auction at 290 with a day left. Don’t say you aren’t capitalizing on the demand, because you are 

Capitalizing??  Dude, I put 3 months of work into GNR lithos and other assets. So far I’ve made around $2500. Yeah, I’m totally rolling in the dough. 

2 minutes ago, darkside259 said:

sory to hear this man, as a gnr fan really sucks

Thanks. I mean, it’s not like it’s the band doing it. But the merch company they’re in bed with seems to pretty much have zero respect for the artists they work with. Trust me, I could tell some stories about them. 
 

Fernando seems on board with it too, so it is what it is. Lesson learned. Burned the bridge and moved on. 

3 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Jokes aside, I do feel for you, @facefirst. However, there is no way you didn't agree to do this work without a proper agreement regarding compensation. You absolutely should get paid a fair amount for your work, but this should of course be decided prior to taking the job on. I could be mistaken but I do not even recall a lot of artists selling GNR APs on their site. The only one that comes to mind was Sara Ray in 2016 and she offered 3 variants ranging from $50-$150 depending on the amount printed. There may have been a few others, but is that something you did on the past tour legs? Even if so, why quote secondary market prices? Selling APs for those numbers would be obscene.

I am all for calling Fernando out, and I enjoy a good TB roast, but in this case, I have to say it appears he really didn't do a lot wrong. In fact, he even last emailed you less than 2 weeks ago. This appears to be between you and the merchandise firm, and they are the ones that you probably agreed to do the job with. I know it is tough out there, but as you said, if you weren't happy with the compensation you shouldn't have taken the job. There should have been no reason to expect extra compensation (APs in this case) if it was not spelled out.

I can empathize that is frustrating to see your work go for hundreds of dollars a print, and it is natural that you want to cash in on that... but those prices are because they are GNR lithographs offered at GNR shows. This has been the case since 2016. That is not to say you are bad artist or that your art isn't impressive, it is just the reality with these specific prints.

The Cleveland design is a different topic, though

 

 

Global always provided APs for litho work. It’s not even remotely practical to have to sign contracts and spell stuff out for every job I did with Global. We’d spend more time doing that than actually working. 

I mentioned APs before I started and was assured I’d be taken care of. Charles at Global told me there were no proofs AFTER the work was done.  Hell, he made me take my name off of my work.  I was told GNR wouldn’t allow it, which is lame as hell  

Regarding second market pricing - I NEVER said I was going to sell them for $600.  I even said that the pricing was nuts. I’ve ALWAYS made sure my APs were either the very lowest priced ones between completed and current listings or I put them up as a no reserve auction. I ALWAYS wanted to make sure people got them at a fair price.  For instance, somebody hit me up recently and told me he paid $900 for my 2016 Atlanta litho  I actually still have a few (that’s a long story about how I finally was able to get a few for my own collection) but I’d never sell them at the price.  That kind of money is just fucking fans over  

In the end, fuck Charles Dooher, Global and Fernando. Since making this all known I’ve had many artists (and former Global employees) reach out to me about how underappreciation for artists seems to be their MO. GNR is in bed with Global so it’s guilt by association, in my opinion. 

5 hours ago, janrichmond said:

Do you have the complete transcripts? That would help clear the issue, maybe

 

I do. Compiling it all and will be making it all public for anyone interested. 

34 minutes ago, MarHin22 said:

I shared the important stuff about your plans to make money from fans. And I shared Fernando's complete response to you.

And now it seems you are threatening the band and Global, the company who hired you?

Keep burning bridges if that's the way you think you need go about all this.
 

Plans to “make money” from the fans?  I’ve ALWAYS sold ANY APs at way below the going rate because I actually want the fans to have the art at a decent price. But yeah, fuck me for making a living. I guess I should have just been content on the $2500ish I made off of the artwork over 3 months. I guess I was clouded by greed. 
 

Edit:  I’ve made no threats to anyone. You’re talking out of school on a subject that you know nothing about. So Fernando fed you some emails and now you’re the fucking authority on what’s right and wrong and how everything went down?

I made my experience known in public. It’s amazing how many artists hit me up with similar problems from Global. So it’s not just me, my man. 

As far as burning bridges - I’m not interested in working with bands/companies that don’t value artists. 

6 hours ago, MarHin22 said:

 

I was given the green light to share these emails between you, Geoff May, and Fernando Lebeis, Gn'R manager, as there is always two sides of a story. I don't know how to insert images of the email screenshots so I'm just going to quote here. But I can send them to a Mod here for them to see them and post them.

To begin Fernando initiated contact with you as soon as heard of your complaints on social media:

August 11, 2021:

"Hey man, just got a heads up on some GNR related issues? Can you fill me in?"

 

You responded to him asking who he was and he had to tell you he was Gn'Rs manager.

Then you basically told him that you were expecting to get 20 - 50 proofs to make $30k to $60k by selling them. You saw that a Boston litho got sold for about $600 and you decided to make lots of money as you saw how high that went for:
 

".... So with submission and approval fees I basically cleared $3k for 3 months of work.  If I had known going in that there would be no artist proofs I would have passed on the job.  In the past Global has always given me anywhere between 20-50 proofs for me to sell on my own.  All numbered as proofs and signed so there’s no confusion that these were not purchased at the venue.  This has ruined my relationship with Global and it doesn’t really reflect well on the band either because I was told by  Charles Dooher that the band wouldn’t authorize proofs anyways.

I would imagine the band wouldn’t be too keen on going out on the road if in the end each member was clearing less than flipping burgers at McDonald’s.  So I was looking to clear anywhere from $30k-60k on proofs (the Boston one is going for $500-600 already, which is nuts!) which would have helped me financially get back on track since Covid had trashed my last almost 2 years.  Now it looks like I get basically nothing while everyone else profits off of my work."

 

In Fernando's reply to you (below), he mentioned exactly why they don't authorize artists to auction off the art for their own gain. Gn'R wants fans to get them at fair prices (and hence the reason why since Denver, lithos are being sold inside only so ebayers won't get access to these for profit ). His response to you was not rude.  He stated exactly why he couldn't authorize what you were asking for (for those that don't know, Charles works for Global) :

August 12, 2021:

"Hey there, sorry for the delay.  As you know, we are on tour.   I spoke with Global and got their side of things, as we know, there's always two sides of every disagreement.    I don't recall ever giving the ok for artists to auction off the work we commissioned for their own gain, we of course support the artists and have no issues sharing credit etc and work on finding other means to make it profitable for you the artist and other artists like yourself.  However, these prints are for the fans and we charge what we charge on the show and limit the purchase of the lithos for its specialty.  If the fan which purchased the piece at face value decides to sell it, then it's their business.   

I did also reviewed some of the words you used against the band which is your right, however I find them baseless and rude.    

Charles also shared your comments to him directly, which I find it extremely offensive.  I am certain we could of found a way to remedy the situation, however I feel too much negativity has ensued and unfortunately it is best to cut ties.  

I do really like your art and I am sorry of how everything fell apart."

 

And your response to him was basically telling Fernando to watch for the prints you were going to do:

" Oh, and I bet you’re heartbroken about how things worked out. Such a shame you don’t have to dish some money out to the artists.l, or even mention their name.

Stay tuned for my prints."

 

So I don't see anywhere how he was rude to you at all. You just didn't like the answer.
 You wanted prints to make money, he said no because fans should get them for $50. Other artists as Arian Buhler have the same contracts/agreements that you have with Global to make art for Gn'R. So it's not like you're being excluded out of something other artists for Gn'R are getting. Also, you have done work for Gn'R in years prior when the agreement was the same, and now all of the sudden you say you didn't know you couldn't do APs??   Please. 

Not sure who you are but those are very incomplete transcripts. But since Fernando and Global want to go this route I’m good with that. Much more to come. Stay tuned….

Three copies, actually. I’ve made a career out of copying artwork. 

6 hours ago, estrangedtwat said:

Yeah that was me.  I almost shit my pants at the Tokyo 2017 Tokyo concert.  We're all just human beings.  I just happened to come down with a case of the shits at the worst possible moment!

 

Now as for who the obvious "shill" is.....

 

Guy who freely posts his opinions on whatever he feels like, calling it like he sees it, 2500 posts, been here for years, nothing to hide.....

 

OR...

 

Dude who has 1 post and shows up mysteriously to attack me, throwing around words like "libel" when I point out a plagiarism so obvious Stevie Wonder could see it from the other side of the room.

 

Gee, I wonder who "missilehead" is an alt account for.   Couldn't POSSIBLY be Geoff May, could it?   Nah, that's too obvious.  I'd never want to suggest such a thing and get sued for "libel."

Asshole, I have one account. This one. Have a mod check the IPs if you want. I have no use for an alt account. 

10 minutes ago, TigerBubba said:

I like all the lithos and do like this La one.  Looks like the font of “Los Angeles” is similar to The Chateau Mar Mont’s font. I’m assuming this is “My Michelle?”

 

other inspirations?

I like 500. Hoping that will help with getting one!

Meant to say thr “Guns n Roses” font, not “Los Angeles”

It looks to be based off of the movie China Town.

10 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said:

Oh, I think the shit I slung speaks for itself.

Not really.  You just made an accusation yet you can't back it up.  You get an A for effort, though.  Your conviction is cute.

1 hour ago, estrangedtwat said:

 

Anyone with eyes can see that you practically traced the fucking thing.  It's not JUST the guitar.  It's the placement of the logo, the overall color scheme, even the placement and color and shape of the venue details.  So you trimmed the sides a little bit and you think that makes it an "original" work?

It's no wonder GNR doesn't want to work with you anymore.  You're clearly a plagiarist.  Buhler does clever homages to other people's work and acknowledges that work.   You trace other people's shit and call it your own.  Anyone with a lightbox or photoshop can do that.

Shit, look what I can do in five minutes with MS paint...

 

I'm a poster artist now!!

 

 

Feel free to show me where it was traced. It’s pretty easy to superimpose two images and adjust transparency so please do that and show me where the tracing is. Other than them both being head on a shots of a Les Paul I’m interested to see where the tracing occurred. 
 

If you’re going to sling shit then back it up. I’ll wait. 

37 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

Hey I saw that you posted a couple from Fenway and Metlife. Did Globe end up giving you a few? Strange that they're numbered, unless you got them from a fan.

They gave me 3 for each show (Fenway, Metlife and Denver). I’ll keep one of each. For Denver they aren’t numbered, so those will be numbered x/3. For the other two they must have pulled them from the actual poster run. Those two shows came from a different printer so that’s my guess. Those are x/250. 

On 8/17/2021 at 5:52 PM, estrangedtwat said:

That one's OK, but this one is much better:

 

Not only is it way cooler than the Cleveland litho that was actually sold, it would have gone great with new Cleveland Guardians merch coming in 2022.

Yeah, I hate the AD's (Charles Dooher) call on moving this one to Wichita.  It was made solely for Cleveland.  After having to switch I basically had to force it to work.

On 8/17/2021 at 6:32 PM, backinblack said:

You know what is even cooler?

The Strokes poster from one year before that Cleveland show that artist clearly ripped off

https://www.rockcandyposters.com/the-strokes-2016-governors-ball-randall-island-new-york-poster/

Hardly.  Considering I had the guitar drawn a couple years prior but hadn't found the right use for it.  Adding a map in the background is hardly a new concept either.  Nice try though.

16 hours ago, mingsubu said:

I got tix for the vegas show, so very excited! 

 

I'm assuming that they went with a different design?

 

Do you have an Instagram?

 

 

Yeah, that will definitely not be the design.

I am on IG.

14 hours ago, owenstar said:

I dig the Montana one! The kenevil helmet is so fuckin rad.

I'm a fan of it too.

1 hour ago, mingsubu said:

I got tix for the vegas show, so very excited! 

 

I'm assuming that they went with a different design?

 

Do you have an Instagram?

 

 

Definitely will be a different design. iG is geoffmay

2 hours ago, Spike Killer said:

Do you sell any of your work online?

I normally just put my stuff up on eBay. I might put a store on my site at some point. I’m planning on doing an art print of the Fenway poster. 

4 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Ah for fuck's sake, this is depressing. 

With this and the filing legal challenges against bootleg t-shirt sellers it's just ramming it down our throats that money is such a driving force now. I wish it was otherwise as it all just seems to be greed on top of something that is highly profitable anyway. 

Just sad to see. 

I understand going after bootleg stuff.  That's just wrong.  But screwing over artists who have been making them awesome posters is bad business.

5 minutes ago, Mcs953 said:

Do you have a signed contract?

There were agreements and prescedents in place.  But there's no way that they would ever have a formal contract for that.  Wouldn't fit their model.

2 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Again, good managers find ways to take care of their vendors 

100% correct.  The last AD at Global, Ted Mattes, was AWESOME about that.  He ALWAYS got us APs, usually 50, which is very generous.  They forced him out, though.  Because looking out for the artists doesn't seem to be part of Global's business model.

1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said:

It sounds like the camp is withholding APs, despicable if true

Global is blaming GNR but I'm not 100% sure who has absolute say.  I'd think that would fall on the band.  Either way, they're both assholes about it.

1 minute ago, Coma16 said:

What sort of communication have you had with the band/management around the lithos? Did they provide any tips/themes of what they were looking for in each city or was it completely up to you?

I'm curious if Fernando has any say or would want to get involved. This seems, purely my speculation, that it is between the artists and Globo.

He reached out to me but really didn't seem to care, then got shitty because I made disparging remarks about the band.  I mean, GNR is complicit.  They let it happen.  Are they at fault in the end?  No.  That said, they knew there wouldn't be APs and were totally ok with that.  Apparently the extra $150 or so per set of 20 APs would be too much money out of their pockets.

3 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

What’s the controversy going on?

 

 Yeah, Fernando sucks, @facefirst

It's in one of my posts on the previous page.

Just now, Coma16 said:

You should file some sort of complaint at better business bureau. Sounds like he took money out of your pocket.

They (Global and GNR) did.  No doubt.  That said, filing a complaint with the BBB won't solve anything at all.  It's a situation where I have to bend over and take it.  Lesson learned.

3 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

I think it's fine that they don't give artist the APs as long as that is what was discussed/negotiated. If they tried to pull a quick one you then that's shameful on them.

Global has always given me APs.  It was part of the agreement with them when I started since their pay for these is so low.  Charles Dooher, their AD for the past few years decided to change that and not tell anyone.  When explained that that's the way it's always been he didn't give a shit.  Had I known there were no APs there's no chance that I would have worked on these at all.  Each poster is DAYS of work.  Hell, the NJ one had 5 different completed, ready to ink drawings done that I trashed because I thought I could do better.  There is a TON of time invested in these posters.  Global and Fernando/GNR act as if I should be lucky to have been bestowed with this project.