loke212

42 minutes ago, Drexl said:

Besides all this crazy good music, I've always loved those 4 guys' personalities. Flawed, but so passionate, so free, and also intelligent. Even when I read an intreview with Slash and Duff shortly after the St. Louis riot, when we all know they were wasted all the time, it struck me how wise and rational their words were. Anyway, a musician's personality is always noticeable in his music. If Slash had a different personality, he would be a totally different guitarist. His "I don't give a fuck" attitute and his undeniable sensitivity makes his guitar-playing so soulful and effortless. And I could go on with Axl's, Duff's and Izzy's personalities, but I think it's pointless to write an essay on here, because those who want to know and understand them will do it. Those who hate, will always hate. It must be so fucking great being so judgemental.

Yeah, the guys in GNR always struck me as a bit more intelligent than most of their colleagues in other bands (especially back then in the rock and metal scene) as well  Might even be a main factor in what helped them make it as big and great as they got. Too bad it didn't prevent the clusterfuck of the last decades though 

And I agree about their personalities, people here seem to have really one-sided, black and white views of these guys. There are a lot of accusations floating around and I don't even necessarily disagree with all of these (I've thought or called them some of these things myself), but for every...

- two-faced, liar, backstabbing, snake-in-the-grass, fake, money-hungry, greedy, passive, cowardly, soulless, noodler

- spineless, manipulative, passive, fake woke, greedy, most useless member of the band

- control freak, lazy, greedy, fat, fake woke, crazy, reclusive, whiny, can't sing/write songs anymore

- unreliable, flakey, greedy, can't play guitar/write songs anymore

... I see, I can think of at least as many (or rather more) good things that I like about all of them. Which is why I could never really hate any of them (at least if we're talking about AFD era guys). Frankly, if I thought all of them were irredeemably awful, I would have stopped caring about this band long ago and never looked back.

5 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I don't think he's boasting about it.

"With all this going on, I started to experiment with sex. I remember going over to the place next door and playing doctor with the girl who lived there. We were only seven, but she was pretty developed for her age. Looking back now, I guess she must have gone through something bad. I mean, she knew exactly what she was doing and told me how to please her while she played with my dick. For my part, I think it was just a way for me to express my feelings. My brothers and I tried to adapt to our new situation. Mike switched off and withdrew. Mark became rebellious, and I became obsessed with sex."

Combined with the other stories he mentions about his sexual encounters as a kid (that wasn't the only one iirc), I can see how it could come across as bragging, especially when viewed within the context of the whole book.

And it's even worse considering the girl in this story was most likely already being abused by an adult. Definitely started getting creep vibes at that point as well and it only got worse from there.

1 hour ago, Lio said:

Hm, having read properly now, they do stress her young age a few times. Saying she wasn't even born for afd and lies. And she's quoted as well saying she doesn't know about their history as she wasn't born then. 

Doesn't seem like a slipup to me. It's not like a casual mention of her age.

Plus the whole Taylor Swift thing someone mentioned above. These people wanting to make her the next Taylor Swift doesn't make any sense if she's really that old already.

It's definitely not a slip-up imo, but to go to such lengths to fake her age would be extremely bizarre as well.

And yet, that girl in the pictures Blackstar posted definitely looks like her. 

Maybe Melissa is a genius and skipped a couple of grades in school 

If she graduated younger than usual, her age would still be off by a couple of years, but at least not nearly a decade 

The Use Your Illusion tour documentary in good quality.

Never before released shows and behind the scenes footage. (I'd actually be more interested in stuff like that from the 80s, but since we're talking UYI here...)

13 hours ago, Lio said:

I haven't finished the book yet, but I wonder if it's shelved because of all these things. I am far more apalled/grossed out by all of that than I am shocked by his sneers towards Slash, Duff or anyone else. Seriously, I am not a loud feminist who yells ME TOO! at every corner, but all of this I find genuinely awful, and reading on here: 'He's just a guy fucking as many women as he could' as if it's some kind of feat? Ugh. He's talking about breaking in and rating exploited girls FFS. And as far as I can see, he feels quite good about it. Drawing the parallel with what's going on today, could you imagine a slave handler breaking in some n***s and a publisher publishing that book?

I have never liked Matt, but reading his book makes me find him an absolutely atrocious, despicable person. I read Duff's and Slash's books too, and I'm not saying they were/are noble men, but this is taking it a whole lot further imo.

I agree with this (and with @Kiras posts), this is one of the main reasons why I think Matt comes off as the biggest asshole and the most despicable character out of these 3 guys, judging by their books.

Though it may cheer you up to know that Matt did get called out for his behaviour somewhat during the VR days, as described later in the book:

The wives of the other guys in VR apparently all hated Matt and called him a creep for dating a 19-year old girl as a 40-something man and for the backstage antics he was trying to introduce into VR.

And one day while Matt and the 19-year old plus some girls picked out from the crowd were engaging in said backstage antics, Scott Weiland walked in and was disgusted. Weiland told his wife about it, his wife told Duff's wife and immediately they put an end to all of that.

Matt was pissed off and went to confront Scott. Scott called him disgusting. Him and his "80s Mötley Crue shit".

Not a huge fan of Scott, but I was mentally cheering him on there.

(Of course Matt thinks all of this was so unfair and he apparently told the other VR guys' wives that they were jaded old Yoko Onos who didn't know how to have fun )

She totally looks like a female Izzy 

2 hours ago, Rayno said:

I remember Marc mentioning her in Reckless Road was the reason Izzy didn't want to do anything with the book. Marc also mentioned she was a heavy drug addict.

Izzy seems to try hard to avoid contact with anyone from his drug past (and drug dealer past), which I can't blame him for.

He also probably doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that he was apparently dating a 14/15 year old.

9 hours ago, Drexl said:

What puzzles me is where were his siblings? They've spent most of the time during the Illusion tour by his side. Maybe he was really unreachable back then.

Yeah, good question. Maybe they were into or believed in the same weird stuff, too (they did grow up in the same family after all). Or maybe they were just glad to have a chance to work for their big brother and travel the world and didn't want to bring in any tensions to disturb that, no idea. Axl's definitely still close with sister nowadays though (he talked about her not too long ago iirc).

54 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

In this book matt comes across as a simple enough guy with a very low tolerance for diva bullshit. Imagine any walk of life having to deal with people like Axl, scott weiland or even the cult. He just liked fucking as many women as he could, playing drums loud and drinking and sniffing coke. Band politics, trading on eggshells in case axl throws a strop, or letting slash get away with whatever he wanted because he's outwardly laid back doesn't sound like anything any normal person could deal with. And some of his stories are so ridiculous, they must be true You dont make up teaching sebastian bach cunnilingus in a room full of people. 

After reading the book, I think most of the stuff in there is probably true as well (to some extent at least). Some of Matt's observations and some more obscure little bits and pieces of information mentioned in the book have been described by other people as well, so it does have a ring of truth to it.

And while Matt comes across as very unlikeable himself, I can also understand his frustration with Slash and Duff if they were even half as passive and useless as described during the GNR days. And the general frustration with their behavior towards him, especially with Slash.

Earlier in the thread someone said Axl comes off in a way better light in the book than Slash does and it's true. Sorum paints Axl as difficult and troubled, but he doesn't come across as entirely unsympathetic towards him (e.g. in the story where he tries to talk Axl into going on stage or when he mentions how brutal the breakup with Steph Seymour was). And there are many instances in the book where he describes Axl as being kind and generous or mentions how great and talented Axl was.

By contrast, I don't remember him saying a single nice thing about Slash in the book. It's just dig after dig at Slash's character and a new example of Slash throwing him under the bus in every chapter. And if it's not that, then he draws unfavorable comparisons between Slash and Axl ("Axl is generous and a 'giver', unlike Slash, who is not") or describes Slash as being a wimp who is too afraid to get into even the smallest conflict or disagreement and lets others do his dirty work for him.

Even Duff gets off better than Slash. There's a lot of disappointment towards Duff at the end of the book, yes, but none of constant critisism and highlighting of his character flaws that Slash gets (apart from the stuff where he referred to both Duff and Slash as being dumb, too passive, always pretending problems didn't exist etc.).

Can't really say I'm surprised, I've heard rumors about James Hetfield being pretty racist before (or having been, I don't know enough about him to judge and people do grow up and change). I also remember reading somewhere that Lars and Kirk used to make out with each other sometimes during the 90s and they partly did it to wind him up because he was so homophobic or something. Taken together, the racism, homophobia and the hunting does fit a certain stereotype. 

23 hours ago, Blackstar said:

During the GnR/Metallica tour, Roberta witnessed part of a conversation between Axl, Slash and James Hetfield (she happened to be passing by). They were talking about Ice-T and she heard Hetfield saying "I'm not sharing the same stage with a n*er". She said she was shocked, Axl reacted but she doesn't remember what he said. She said she hasn't talked about this before because if she did doors in the music business would close for her, but now she felt the need to say it.

The whole interview is really very interesting and worth watching.

22 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, then the conversation kinds of goes to that and it's very interesting. Roberta said that probably Hetfield didn't see Slash as a black/half black person (as he doesn't fit the stereotype), and she said the same might apply to Axl in his OIAM period (although I must say Axl had lived in Slash's house with his mother and grandmother).

It's too bad she doesn't remember what Axl said, that would have been very interesting. I'd like to think he called Hetfield out on that comment or stood up for Slash or something like Duff did when that guy from WASP (?) was being racist to Slash, but tbh I could also see him not really acknowledging that comment (and Slash standing right next to him) or worse.

Apologies if Axl's general type of reaction (good or bad, even though she doesn't remember his exact words) is known and discussed in the interview, I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.

I've read Duff's, Slash's and Matt's book now and I definitely think Matt comes off as the worst.

Duff manages to to come across (or at least make himself seem) like a decent guy in his book and there is a certain depth and poignancy to his book that most rock star biographies sorely lack. And it's a lot more tasteful and inspiring than most.

Slash does come off like an asshole a couple of times in his book, but on the whole I didn't want to strangle him while reading his book and the book itself is a pretty good read imo. More like a typical rock star biography than Duff's, but still pretty interesting and entertaining.

Matt's book made me cringe and mentally facepalm from start to finish and it's a badly written/edited mess. It does contain a few interesting bits and pieces we didn't know about though, I'll give him that.

15 minutes ago, Drexl said:

Some escape into drugs, Axl had chosen a pseudo-religion. I feel so sorry for him. There was literally no one who would bitch-slap him and yell into his face "Wake up, asshole! They're fucking using you!" Slash and Duff were wasted all the time, Izzy was a fucking quitter...

I feel sorry for him too. Having a decent family or decent friends (non-druggie and non-sycophantic friends, who have a vested interest in always staying on your good side) watching out for you is invaluable in keeping one on the straight and narrow and in preventing you from making grave mistakes. If you don't really have any or not a lot of that to fall back on... well, things can go south easily.

I've often thought the entire history of the band could have been very different if Slash and Duff had been a little older and a little more mature- and not as wasted or high all the time of course. They would have been able to handle Axl and his issues in a better way (maybe. hopefully.).

15 minutes ago, Drexl said:

But getting back to our hero of the day, Matt "the Party Animal" Sorum. What's the most sad about this book, is that it was written by a 60-year-old man. Some men never grow up.

 

P.S. Izzy, is Matt really your pal? Ouch...

Yeah, it reads like it was written by a 13-year old boy and that's still insulting to a lot of 13 year olds. It's fucking cringeworthy, is what it is. And it's downright creepy in the earlier chapters of the book (I decided to read the whole thing because I'm an idiot) where he keeps bragging about all his sexual adventures as a kid 

(And I personally don't think Izzy and Matt are pals. Just two guys who felt they were wronged banding together for a short time. )

18 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, I'd seen these translated interviews posted on various places without a reference to a source (e.g. a magazine) or an exact date, and I saw that other fans, like you, questioned their authenticity (and I could see why). 

Then, as I was collecting articles for our huge GnR database at a-4-d.com  (https://www.a-4-d.com/t2861-interview-and-article-index ), I tried to find the sources of these interviews and dug into Brazilian sources, and finally I found the sources and the original interviews in Portuguese (except for the Fernando interview where I couldn't find the Portuguese text but I found the source) and re-translated them here with the help of google (I think the first one wasn't translated - I haven't seen it circulating):

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4741-2001-01-16-o-globo-interview-with-doug-goldstein-and-beta-lebeis

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4758-2001-01-22-bolsa-de-mulher-interview-with-beta-lebeis

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4692-2001-07-01-o-estado-de-s-paulo-interview-with-beta-lebeis

(Btw, proofreading of the translations by Portuguese speakers would be appreciated  )

EDIT: On topic, in the second interview Beta says "The drummer was drunk" which makes some sense now with what Matt wrote in his book about his last days in GnR.

Oh wow, that's really cool. Thanks for your work!

4 hours ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

Was Slash present at Matts wedding?

No, he was not, only Duff. That alone could be seen as an indication that things between Slash and Matt weren't that friendly and close. If a good buddy of yours gets married, you would usually attend his wedding unless you've got a really good reason not to.

8 hours ago, Creed said:

In general, don't get in a relationship with girls that aint funny. Its pointless, if you cant laugh with your girl. And Steph was definately not a funny person.

 

Yeah, she seems like the exact opposite of "fun". Definitely doesn't strike me as someone you could have a good laugh or even a decent conversation with.

7 hours ago, Ratam said:

I find disgusting that Beta talk about the Axl's and Seymour relationships in such poor taste. She seem my neighboring of the next door. She isn't seem be management of an great band.

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, she did those interviews in Brazil and Axl may not have known what she said exactly (although some of them were translated into English and posted on GnR fansites). This one was with an online women's magazine in Brazil.

I didn't know that. It was a long time ago, but I still remember reading these translated interviews with Beta (and also Fernando I think) because it was the first time I felt a bit weirded out by TB. The way they talked about Axl sort of made it sound like they were talking about a child rather than their boss (might have had something to do with the translations I read though). And man, I'm glad for Axl if Beta and family can provide him with the family atmosphere and affection that had been lacking in his life, but these interviews still struck me as somewhat strange, enough that I wasn't even sure if they were real. Always kind of suspected they were made up, but good to know there is at least some kind of source for these (or at least that specific interview), thanks.

14 minutes ago, gokken said:

So how would I do to get the book? I would love to read this! Is it to late to get the digital version?

Yeah, seconding this question,  I'd really like to read the book now as well. (I've searched, but my usual sources for stuff like that are failing me.)

11 hours ago, LunsJail said:

I’d be interested to read that too. Slash denied the whole story at first but backtracked eventually. Scott and Matt bashed Axl in the press while sticking up for Slash. I would think they eventually realized the story was probably true. Maybe Matt didn’t want to highlight that Slash “hates” him.

Yeah, being hated by one of the most famous guitarists and music icons in the world wouldn't be a good look for Sorum and his overblown ego.

It makes perfect sense to me that Sorum wouldn't want to draw attention to the fact that Slash apparently said he hates him.

9 hours ago, MurielWeathers said:

My question is WHY did he want to marry her so badly?

Apart from the Beta quote @Blackstar posted, Axl also used to believe (or maybe still believes) in a lot of weird shit. Past lives and destiny and so on. I always figured the situation with Seymour - a young single mother with a 2 year old son to which he was going to be a stepfather - might have been closely reminiscent of his own family situation and childhood to him. Maybe he saw it as fate or something and a chance to right past wrongs/do better than his own parents. Might also explain why he was so hung about the kid, even many years later (as shown by another quote posted earlier in this thread). Wouldn't surprise me at least if he sort of saw himself in Dylan, his mother in Seymour etc.

Also, while I personally find Seymor ugly as hell (both on the outside and inside) and think Erin was way hotter, there is no denying that Seymour would have been the trophy wife to end all trophy wifes. To an insecure guy like Axl (who "never got no pussy" when he was younger, according to Izzy), marrying one of the most desirable women of the day would have seemed like the ultimate prize.

On 13.4.2020 at 2:48 PM, Senor_peligro said:

So what.

good on him , he got the ball rolling for the reunion all fans wanted to see. Give him a break. Besides do you know any of them Personally? If not then your comment is pure speculation.

Well obviously it is pure speculation, like 99% of everything else here and why I repeatedly used phrasing like "perhaps" and "I'd guess". Besides, my comment was only half-serious, half-tongue in cheek. Like I mentioned in the post before the one you quoted, I don't hate Duff (and the "big 3"  in general) and think he has some admirable qualities. Being cunning/sly isn't necessarily bad, and if it brought us the reunion, I'm all for it. 

Plus, I don't care for Matt Sorum, so I'm not exactly torn up about Duff (and Slash) throwing him under the bus/freezing him out/whatever.

16 hours ago, LunsJail said:

Matt seems to present this story as an example of how he advocated for Duff to get him in Vampires but got left on the bench for NITL.

He seems to paint himself as the victim a lot, way more than Slash and Duff did in their books.

8 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

He may have thought him,slash and duff were a gang of 3 during that phase and thought in the fans eyes that he played on the illusion albums he would be well known as axl, slash, duff in the eyes of fans.

He probably thought (or still thinks that), yeah. Unfortunately for him, it's far from reality. Slash and Duff don't want him in their gang and the vast majority of fans/concert goers have no idea who Matt Sorum is and don't give a fuck.

Most people don't even know who Izzy is (or confuse him with Fortus), some also don't know Duff. It's all about Axl and Slash to the general public. No one cares about Sorum being in the band except a handful of hardcore GnR nerds.

On 14.4.2020 at 4:50 AM, Kira said:

Honestly, I think the sole reason for Matt and Izzys “friendship” is to annoy Axl.  That’s it.

Yes, I agree. 

I don't believe for a second Izzy is actually friends with Sorum.

Nothing but a surprisingly passive-aggressive (from Izzy's side, I'd sort of have expected better from him) move to annoy Axl or the big 3 in general.

Honestly, all the drama and in-fighting and passive-aggressiveness going on with this band over the years (decades) is insane. They're worse than a bunch of 12-year old girls, all of them.

19 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

No, Duff has insisted that it was by chance. Axl, on the other hand, said he didn't know if he believed it was a coincidence.

Perhaps Duff is the secret mastermind behind everything going on with this reunion and the band in general to some extent. Starting with the "coincidental" meeting with Axl at that hotel. I wouldn't be surprised if he set the whole thing up and even back then was angling for reconciliation that would eventually lead down the road of reunion (and $$$).

Duff used to have this reputation of being a good guy and a generally harmless fella, at worst people thought him kinda dumb (stemming from his drunken pre-pancreas explosion days).

But as time passes and the more bits of information come to light, it seems that, for better or worse, Duff is actually pretty damn cunning and manipulative, not to mention ruthless if he wants to be. And he seems highly involved when it comes to band decisions, dealing with other former members, contracts, PR etc. 

Slash (freshly divorced and needing cash) and Axl (easy to manipulate in general and probably also low on cash) likely fell perfectly in line with puppet master Duff's plans.

11 hours ago, Creed said:

Its more about money and his fear that the clique of Matt, Duff and Slash will give veto, when it comes to differences. 

...

Axl doesn't want a clique of Slash, Matt and Duff.

There is no "clique of Slash, Duff and Matt" though.

We all know Axl doesn't like Matt, but it's become perfectly obvious over the years that Slash and Duff don't like him either.

Slash has snubbed and ignored Matt for a long time now (HoF induction drama, his solo record, VR drama etc.) and apparently Duff is perfectly willing to throw him under the bus as well.

I think after all the tensions and shit that went down with VR, Slash and Duff decided to never work with Matt in a long-term professional capacity again.

So I'd wager a guess that Axl, Slash and Duff were all in agreement that Matt would not be part of the reunion, even though Frank sucks. Drumming/rhythm section issues can be worked on and improved, Sorum's personality can not.

(And I can't even blame them. Axl, Slash and Duff are huge wankers, but they all have some redeeming/endearing qualities. Sorum on the other hand just seems like a straight-up douchebag.)

11 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I love the UYI lineup including his drumming but I get the feeling that his personality is why he was not asked back.  The "go demand I be the drummer to Axl" thing further proves that - yeah, I am sure that what a fragile relationship working to reunite for a multi-million dollar worldwide tour needs, are demands and ultimatums right off the bat lol

10 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Slash and Duff didn’t want Matt or Steven. So they made it work. I doubt they care that much at all.

Yes to both of these. I'm sure they weren't exactly thrilled with Frank, but I guess he was the lesser of two evils and they figured they'd just work it out.

I'm also not sure I believe Duff saying "because you're not the drummer" to Matt. That sounds more like another instance of Matt making things up to seem more important than he is. Or Duff was annoyed or being sarcastic when he said that and Matt carefully omitted that part.