Billy Cundy

Yeah man, nostalgic Brit’s in parkas getting lairy at an Oasis gig and murderous organised crime gangs are one and the same. I love the sopranos, the happy endings all the characters had really encouraged me to start eating gabagool and killing my friends.

leave it out, you’re looking too deeply into what I’m saying. I’m not ‘proud’ of oasis fans or endeared to violence/hooliganism at gigs, I’m just saying it’s interesting to see a distinctly British subculture, that couldn’t exist anywhere else, still around 30 years after a band was relevant. I’m not even English so I couldn’t even take any pride in it if I wanted too.

Oasis make a lot of a sense in Britain to British people, hence the subculture that seems to exclusively exist over here. They’re the butt of the joke over here, not in a nasty way, just in the same way people laugh at Peaky Blinders culture, or ‘Live Laugh Love’ mums. It’s a subculture that even Noel hates. I find it endearing how very British and silly it is. It’s our own little thing that can’t be recreated anywhere else. A lot of them just love the music and wanna look like and cosplay Liam. Don’t condone their actions. I do imagine it would get nastier and more hectic than a metal gig if they got back together though. To your second question; no, of course none of them are hard. They’re all about 5”6.

I obviously didn’t say punching people in the back of the head was endearing did I mate? I just meant the bucket hat brigade are so distinctly and hilariously British, and they’re a testament to the enduring influence of Oasis in the UK and how powerful their music is.

‘Chav’ culture really began in the 2000s when white British working class kids got into rap, particularly Eminem, 50 cent… etc. Before there were gold chains and tracksuits, there were bucket hats and football jerseys. As I said, hooligans have always existed, but in the 90s, rather than rappers being the icons, Oasis were. Rap rose to prominence and influenced us more so in the 2000s (in my opinion). I kind of like that they are a weirdly native, distinctively British breed, and a testament to how influential Oasis were … but only really in British culture. I find it funny and weirdly endearing these lads don’t exist around the world, only over here. It’s just a different kind of rock fan. I find alt-metal bros with sleeve tattoos and a love of artisanal coffee, 8 string guitars and craft beer pretty embarrassing.. gimme a silly lad in a parka any day. At least they’re having fun. And oasis music is legitimately exciting enough to change how people dress and act, 30 years after their debut.

Fans and crowds for the heaviest of metal tend far, far, far more laid back and personable than the particular breed of lager swilling lunatics Oasis seem to attract. Oasis just seem to inspire a very specific type of British hooliganism. It was part of their appeal. Coked up lads in bucket hats and parkas who want to fight. It’s more akin to football fandom than music fandom. They were proto-chav heroes - prior to the great gangsta rap/hip-hop revolution of the early 2000s, Oasis were the yobbo icons. I appreciate how British it is. I’ve been to metal/rock gigs where the 7ft bearded dude in full leather gear and a face tattoo will politely step aside if you try to get past. Noel’s gig on the other hand was full of pasty little lads in polo shirts chucking bottles, and sunburnt bald geezers in football jerseys looking for any excuse to punch you in the back of the head.

DOYS was cool, shock of the lightning is one of my favourite Oasis songs. I think it’ll likely be a lot more hectic. It will be the hooligan event of the century. Every NITL era GNR gig I’ve been to has been pretty civil - the Guns fans seem to be pretty courteous and relaxed. Oasis attracts absolute headers in Britain. I saw NG and the high flying birds (or Potato Gallagher and the low charting turds as Taylor Hawkins would call ‘em; RIP king)…it was the most boring, pedestrian gig ever and the bucket hatted, lager swilling, adidas wearing clientele were STILL fighting and smashing windows outside the arena. Oasis back together would be an absolute yob shitstorm of biblical proportions. Probably pretty fun, but I imagine the police force in the UK are already planning a recruitment drive if the boys come back to town haha.

Hell yeah same

I agree, I don’t think Liam and Noel could sustain an uneasy truce. I guess if we are comparing them to Axl and Slash (this is a GNR forum I suppose after all) Axl’s reclusive persona coupled with Slash and Duff’s unwavering commitment to diplomacy and keeping the peace minimises any risk of getting in each others lines of fire . I’m sure it’s a very professional ‘let’s meet on stage, do the gig, get paid, and return to our lives’. The British music press can’t take a dump without asking at least one of the Gallaghers to make a comment on it, and both of them are always 100% willing to oblige. Neither of them have ever NOT had an opinion on anything. There’d be far more scope and opportunity for another fall-out. but then again, they’re brothers. Even if there was a bit of aggro, as long as it wasn’t a brutal showdown, they might be more likely to hash it out. The only thing bonding axl and slash is the band/brand Guns N’ Roses. Liam and Noel have the same mum. Big difference. maybe Noel’s scratched the ‘solo album’ itch. Liam has said he thinks Noel just wanted to split and release music away from oasis. I think Noel felt limited by the band, their image, and Liam’s emotional/vocal range. After some pedestrian ‘experimental’ excursions, Noel has circled back around to writing the type of britpop lad anthems that made him famous in the first place. Maybe he’s thinking ‘if Im back here again, might as well sell out stadiums rather than arenas’…..

Type ‘Epstein’s killer’ into Spotify and it suggests Queen. and George CLINTON. hehe

There’s been some rumblings regarding the (inevitable) Oasis reunion - Noel has prompted Liam to ‘give him a call’ in so many words. What does this have to do with GN’R? Well.. Noel has recently divorced from his wife Sara McDonald. As we’ve seen with the mighty Slash, nothing seems to spur a reunion on like an absolutely devastatingly costly rockstar divorce settlement. I also understand there was animosity between Perla and Axl, as there is between Sara and Liam G. Are we seeing what we saw with GNR in 2015/16, or will the scallywag Gallagher’s continue to bitch and antagonise one another via RadioX and equally underwhelming solo efforts? I’ve always thought there were a fair few parallels between Oasis and GNR. Both were considered ‘dangerous’ and comprised of ‘bad boys’; not in a contrived showbiz way either - Liam and Axl were legitimate headcases who might actually smack you then knick your bike. Both bands also had a knack for repurposing and recycling the best 60s and 70s rock, wearing their influences on their sleeves and writing universally accessible rock n’ roll, loved by millions. They share some musical common ground too, both bands owing a lot to the Rolling Stones, The Who, and The Sex Pistols. I could be overthinking it - but Oasis/GNR music was nasty rock n’ roll written by nasty boys, paying tribute to the giants of the generation that preceded them and delivering it with ferocity and arrogance for a 90s audience. Volatile controversial frontmen, substance abuse, revolving line ups, strained inter-band relationships (particularly between the hotheaded lead singers and the softer spoken more introverted guitarists)… and now a costly divorce potentially resulting in a long-coming Uber-profitable reunion? all rock n roll cliches, yes… but certainly parallels to be drawn. will we be seeing the Oasis equivalent of ‘NITL’? If we do, will it last and trudge on like GNR seem to be destined to do? Seems unlikely but the same may have been said about axl n co prior to 2012? Will there be new music? The Gallaghers have pumped out far more than GNR have over the years…. Are these bands even comparable, or am I way off? Let me know your thoughts.

I disagree, shit doesn’t float. I’ve been in and around the music biz for years, endless gigs and showcases, been on hundreds of bills of up and coming bands. The ones who have the magic ‘wow’ factor do tend to be the ones who make some kind of name. It’s a brutal meritocracy, but isn’t that for the best?

And so a new generation of lazy musicians incapable of digging deep and getting the perfect take or perfect vocal will rise to prominence, and mediocrity will reign.

The implications of the technology will plague ‘human’ music too. I think most modern music, particularly heavy rock, metal and pop, sound dire because everyone uses the same drum samples, the same amp modellers, melodyne, and all the same obnoxious digital software to homogenise the music. AI will seep into our studios. It will seep into mixing, like beat detective has seeped into drumming and removed all life and feel from a drum take. Feel and groove and interplay will die out. People will use AI to mix and pitch correct. It’ll kill what made all the records we love great.

You’re more optimistic than I am. Music won’t die but people being able to maintain a career within it and create something great will die. also, I fundamentally disagree with the ‘industry’ being the last place to look for great music. GNR were signed to Geffen. Every band worth discussing owe a debt to ‘the industry’

Death of music. Streaming put the industry on life support. AI will kill it dead. I think the whole thing is despicable. Soulless. Enjoy your dystopia, call me a butthurt old fashioned Luddite, but yeah. Sad state of affairs. Before streaming, labels, (like banks), had the money to take a chance on lunatics like Axl, Lennon, Lydon, Page, and Gallagher. They had the budgets to pair these wonderful creatives with serious engineers and producers in proper studios to create jaw dropping albums. Streaming can not sustain that expenditure or investment. You have to look like Dua Lipa, be 100% obedient to the label like Harry Styles, and hit the bullseye first time with a hit for a label to invest even a penny into you. They haven’t got the money to take risks anymore, because no one is buying or consuming music in a cost effective way. All that is left is touring, and syncs - I.e. a show/film/ad using a song. So now AI… Think of all the musicians who write film music or library music? All out of a job. Another blow to studios and music industry. Why pay a human when AI can do it? Not to mention how fucking sad it is. Your kids having a first dance at their wedding to an AI generated track. Being put in the ground to some AI approximation of a human’s work. Truly atrocious.

Yeah maybe you’re right!

I’d agree Axl is long past his ‘zeitgeist’ moment, but with his ‘legend’ status, coupled with his elusiveness, and ongoing commitment to a full press-embargo, I imagine he’d be a pretty hot ticket for any show. Remember when he just showed up on Kimmel and everyone collectively shit themselves? He wasn’t even really promoting anything. Or was it The Joint residency? Regardless, most shows would have him on in a second. The one single thing Axl has done very well is preserve his mystique. Joe Rogan has said in a podcast with Theo Von that he’d love Axl to come on. Joe’s the alpha in this podcast era… this is a guy turning down opportunities to meet presidents… if he wants Axl, I’d imagine everyone does.

ChatGPT hath spoken https://imgur.com/a/Rmhkb1R

It’s a massively popular YouTube series that time and time again delivers very enlightening and enjoyable long form discussions with massive celebrities, hosted by a cool guy with a gift for getting more out of his guests than every sycophantic late night TV host (hack) put together. and they eat wings.

Haha would love to see it… though Axl strikes me as remarkably self conscious. Can’t imagine he’s open to sweating his bollocks off, swigging milk and choking whilst getting asked about why ChiDem took 14 years. Could be wrong. The axl fat-shaming community would have a meme field day. i’m so surprised none of them have been on Joe Rogan yet. Joe Rogan knows fuck all about music and by all accounts, does zero research prior to meeting rockstars. Weirdly, it results in slightly more interesting conversations. Like when he spent an hour talking to Hetfield about bees. I was certain duff would be on at some point, what with his ‘bro’ credentials (finance degree, martial artist, everything Rogan loves)… A long form interview with axl would honestly be as welcome as new music.

There’s been some lively and spirited debate on the ‘Complaints, Complaint, Complaints’ thread as to whether or not Duff beer, which made its debut on Episode #1 of the Simpsons in 1989, was named after Mr. McKagan. As we are all well aware, Duff claimed this was the case in his autobiography in 2011. I’ve always believed this to be a ludicrous notion, as I can’t even begin to imagine why some of the finest comedy writers and satirists of the 20th century would look to the bass player of an (at that time) popular, but still up and coming rock band for inspiration. Especially within a show satirising representations of small town American families on TV. Those with more faith in Duff’s recollections have pointed out that it may be in the Simpsons’ writers best interest to avoid admitting that Duff beer was inspired by the musician as it would leave them open to potential litigation.. a fair argument, however the fact that Mike Reiss (the showrunner who refuted the claims in Time magazine -https://time.com/5310066/duff-beer-origin/?amp=true) hasn’t had any association with Fox/Disney since 2007, and that Duff’s name was not trademarked at the time, you must concede the argument falls apart a bit. It also goes against the very spirit of the simpsons, who never once shied away from poking fun at and lampooning celebrities, with or without their consent/go-ahead. Nor have they been shy about giving credit where credit’s due. However, not once has Duff McKagan ever been alluded to in the show, let alone with regards to the beer. Ask yourself what the comedy value of naming the beer after Duff is? The fact axl introduced him as the ‘king of beers’? It’s hardly Emmy winning satire is it? Did it open the door to parody or stories about rock bands in the same way every other element of the show did for one facet of American life or another? Not once. It was entirely their gateway to write about alcoholism and drinking culture… never once bassists or rock music. Anyway… in the Series 4 DVD commentary, Al Jean (the showrunner to this day) confirmed Series 1 writer Jay Kogen came up with the name Duff. As I expected, in the commentary, there is no mention of GNR. Learning this, I decided to take a punt and message Jay on instagram. I said I wanted to know out of interest as the debate was ongoing, and that I had personally assumed Duff beer was a parody of the monosyllabic, typically working class beer brands like ‘bud’, ‘coors’, ‘Busch’ and ‘schlitz’. Jay just happened to respond this evening - https://imgur.com/a/RKMv9jZ Jay hasn’t worked for the show for some time, and therefore isn’t too concerned about Disney’s liability for legal recourse, of which there wouldn’t be any, due to the fact - a. Duff McKagan not trademarking his name til much later, and B. Duff just being a noun, like any other. To those who may question the fact Jay isn’t a verified user, I have supplied some screenshots of his followers below to clarify some validity of the source. Bill Oakley, one of the more famous ‘golden era’ writers of the simpsons follows the account that responded to me. https://imgur.com/a/FLSnLzV the lovely Lisa kudrow also follows Jay (he has done a lot of writing for many sitcoms over the years) https://imgur.com/a/4BfcUf6 Let me be clear. I love Duff McKagan. He inspired me to learn the bass, something I ended up doing professionally and to this day is my life long passion and hobby. He also seems like, by all accounts, a lovely bloke and a decent upstanding man. I’m not calling him a liar, or trying to besmirch his good name. I just assume due to the transience and chaos of his and his band mates’ lives in the 80s and 90s, coupled with his (and his entourages’) chemical intakes, memories of jokes and conversations may have morphed into myths. Maybe whilst watching the simpsons, a hanger on/manager said in jest ‘hey, you should get a few bucks out of this’, and over the years, wires get crossed and recollections become shaky.