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What if Axl and Slash being sworn enemies was just a conspiracy theory this whole time? Maybe they just had artistic differences and it was as simple as that.

I heard the comedian Bert Kreisher tell a story about when he worked for MTV in '96 and got to interview Slash. The GNR split had just been announced and he was told not to bring it up. But Slash was willing to talk about it. Bert said Slash told him- and I can't stress how much I'm paraphrasing- but the jist was they just grew apart as people once they got money. When you are poor, you stick together. Once making it He just wanted to play rock n roll, drink, etc. Axl wanted to do yoga, live in Malibu, explore consciousness, etc. Slash just wanted to party.

it seems like there is some credence to that considering the vastly different career styles after the initial breakup.Off the cuff comments from both camps over the years have probably been taken out of context. Based off jimmy kimmels recent interview, he thought Axl and Slash would eventually bury the hatchet. That was his impression in 2011. There is clearly the humor of the whole situation too with the name of the tour.

so I find myself subscribing more and more to the theory they were just different people. The truth will find a way. Its always darkest before the light. When you start getting theories on Michael Jackson moleststions and Axl being hurt by Slash performing with him you know the truth is looming.

Also They were kids then- It's not like the groundwork was laid by many people in their career on how to act. They were cartagraphing that shit as it happened just like bands did before them. They are probably lucky to be alive.

so don't take it too seriously. Slash is a great guitarist. Axl told Loder in 99 that finding a replacement for Slash was nearly impossible because of talent. But it's fun to throw gossip around about Fernando and those people because I don't know them right!?

I also understand it's fun to gossip as we all live pretty shallow lives in comparison to all these people we talk about. One paycheck of theirs could change most of our years/lives, materially speaking. So in one way they play the roll of king and it's just like us peasants to gossip and critique their every move! Helps to pass the time!!

24 minutes ago, jafeijo said:

100% this. The difference for me is pretty simple - in AC/DC he's Angus employee, so in my conception it's pretty reasonable that he'll do his best in order to please his boss. On the other hand in GNR he is the boss, therefore he will sing however he wants to, It may seem unprofessional to some but who knows, honestly I think it's a smart move. Nonetheless he's a helluva singer even when singing clean, and those who's blaming his age and saying he's not capable of putting a great show should really take another look at the AXL/DC vids.

So much of singing is in the emotion happening inside that we can't see. Singing rocket queen aggressively (raspy) is easier when your young and lived it. It's like Anthony Kiedis said the struggle as you get older is writing with the same tenacity. It becomes a different game living a Malibu lifestyle writing rock songs. Emotionally, perhaps his cleaner way of singing helps him perform and connect with the songs on a new level. He's a different person today than he was then. Just like me and you. 

If I lost my blanket as a little kid, my world was over. I lose one now and get another. We handle similar situations differently as we age.

He still hits the notes and is a great showman.what more are you seeking?

as for AC/DC, I'll roll it out like this. with any marriage, routines are developed. A band is a marriage. Sometimes for fun or perhaps commitment, you incorporate something new into the sexual routine. You might be a little more excited with the extra something, whatever that might be. It might make you uncomfortable and inspire you in some way.That is AC/DC to Axl on one level. It's new and exciting.Maybe this style requires a little more pump here or a rasp there. But let's not throw out the routine, it's kept us young. Im not even sure what I'm talking about anymore but wondering why he doesn't sound the exact same in AC/DC as GNR is silly. Totally different situation.

11 hours ago, wasted said:

True, there's no money in a record compared to tour. It's like someone giving me 100k and then someone wants to buy me a drink. 

Also, I feel like they are going up against a great catalog, like legendary songs. They are getting credit for that now. To bring out a new record has "oh this isn't that good" potential. It changes the conversation. 

People down play it because we just want new songs. We like Think about you, Dead Horse, IRS etc. But there has to be some ego attached or pride to not have that "you aren't as good anymore" tag. The old stuff is better. 

Good news is they could have been percolating a new record since the late 90s. Axl has this thing where maybe he's ahead of the curve and has some songs he's been waiting to release with Slash. There's some hope in that. There also seems like a final chapter to the story of GNR story. Maybe the reunion tour is that for most people. 

For the general fan in attendance I'd guess seeing them in person and enjoying the show is more than enough. Play to your audience. That's showmanship 101. So I think the strategy to ride this out is ideal. There is no rush and we are comfortable crusing.

Artistically I think there is still an itch. I think if this was purely about money or nostalgia, Axl probably wouldn't have made comments on looking into new music in the future at the china exchange.

When Eddie Money started appearing in all those commercials a few years ago you can see the way an older artist can go. He gave an interview with Forbes saying he'd take any county fair,geico commercial, cruise ship he can get and it's all about making money now because of past mistakes with finances.

i don't think Guns situation is exactly the same but the point is there. They could ride this out for complete nostalgia until the money train ends. And you could argue they are doing that now. But something tells me there is more to it. Guns were always original and real. That's the appeal of them. A diamond in the rough of the synthetic 80s music scene. There aren't any play books when you walk the precipice of reality.

2019-2020 is looking like the next chance.

18 hours ago, wasted said:

Suppose they won't capture the moment or zeitjest but the reunion creates it's own thing. There's an energy that comes with that. But has that moment past. So I guess it does go to that quality music, timeless, spiritual place. There's no roads where we going people. 

Anything in time is explainable if we have the time to explain it.

Guns turned into a monumental release band sometime around 98/99/00/01 when it became clear the label had ambitious/grandiose plans for CD and a release wasn't going to be simple. I don't think that is by design but it's the way it turned out. Old band is gone, Axl's been missing for 7 years, new guy had a bucket on head, We are in it for the long haul. CD grew an allure that is still whispered about to this day. It matched that of UYI in terms of being a special release. AFD was  a special release too but that came about in a different way.

So It has led us to where we stand with Guns now.. Releases must be symbolic. This is just pure conjecture but with the possibilities of what new music could be, you have to wonder if it all comes out in a UYI style double album. Remember we aren't here to keep it all buried. Was it Fortus that mentioned old songs from 96 still being around? Let's take Old CD songs with Slash and Duff tweaks, Slash songs, Duff songs, old 96 songs, new songs. Throw it all in the pot and release it as one. Slash said in the Behind the Music documentary that UYI was Guns version of the White Album so to speak. We got to the bottom now it's time to go back to the top of the slide. I can see them being open to a mix of styles again. They've rarely been the band that writes it all together as one. It's more of a Piecemeal. And with that style of writing comes a lot of meshing of musical styles which is kind of Guns thing to begin with. So thematically it works with the Guns N Roses brand in terms of releases. They put the skyliners and Manson on one record for Christ's sake. I see it being like UYI for Millennials. UYI's part 3 and 4. That's the market appeal of it. They're back from the dead. Get to Tower Records quick before the nostalgia is sold out!

Lyrics wise it will be dark like most Guns lyrics. Save the rare Used to love her or you ain't the first.. Duff wrote that facebook song though so anything could happen I guess. Maybe even a Stinson Song on guest vocals. See what Izzy wrote and if he'd split the loot. Guns N Roses traveling circus band. Come one, come all.

Maybe there is an agreement to push the envelope if there is an album. It worked for UYI. 4 full records in one day, My Worlds and orchestra's don't come lightly. But can we recreate the magic? UYI was their physical graffiti. This is the chance to do what Led Zeppelin and early Guns never got the chance too. Push it even further. Keep the hip hop beats Axl liked  but we need a few by the swords for this to work. Trump is president now which means Art is back. It's time to be original again.

I'm thinking we get the whole kitchen. The 2020 End of the world Wholesale. The it is what it is collection. You see that is Guns whole thing.  They aren't perfect but in that is their perfection. They are dirty at heart in a good way. It's their Achilles last stand.

Part 1:

 Chinese Democracy meets It's so easy. Something punchy and punk, yet gritty and crisp production. Start it off on a low octave. We're going deep.

2Out to get me- keep it moving

  Better- time for the single

 Catcher in the Rye

By the sword

  Atlas Shrugged

Double talkin Jive

   Scraped

   Safarri Inn

   Oh my god- You said we were pushing the envelope

   Coma

Part 2:

1.       Dead Horse. Let's go acoustic

2.       Izzy song?

3.       Duff song/Who's to Blame?

4.       There was a time- this is where we push it

5.       Going Down- Stinson on Vocals and guitar

6.       Seattle Head/Attitude-Duff needs something like this

7.       Sorry

8.       The Seeker – what would a guns album be without a cover

9.       If the World

10.   Bad Obsession/You aint the first. See if anyone remembers how to play a harmonica. We didn't say it would be pretty.

11.   Fall to Pieces/IRS

12.   Estranged- End with an epic. The last TKO.

That just seems crazy to say a reunited Guns album wouldn't go platinum. At the risk of this old debate, didn't CD even go 2X-3X platinum? 

Yeah music has changed but there is still a huge fan base for older rock music. The media just doesn't represent it anymore because media represents youth which largely listens to pop music.

In America we separated church and state in good intention but its become perverted today. The separation allows the church to claim moral fortitude even with perverse translations of the bible which serves as another form of discrimination towards certain groups like the LGBT crowd. On the other hand the separation has therefore given the state license to be immoral. Or to act immorally, or be passive about the consequences of law benefiting a few over the masses.

 

It's a topsy turvy world out there. Stay safe!

1 hour ago, wasted said:

Remember Kurt wanted to call Nevermind "Sheep". Courtney called him s people pleasing narcissist. There's definitely an element of Kurt just playing the game  but he also wants it on his terms and to win. In a way that's where I see suicide as the answer. I think he boxed himself in. He didn't seem able to just say fuck it. Every rock survivor could send himself up but Kurt he went out totally contradictory self righteous. 

0-0. Italy in they comfort zone yo. 

Kurt was a symbol for the individual in all of us. Something to identify with inside yourself despite it all out there. He had the Lennon role.

I don't know if suicide is the only answer though. Being a human comes with a certain predicament for some so I can't say certainly what anyone should do. I think he realized what the game was, and realized the societal trap which is to basically use up the individual and spit them out to promote the society. This isn't just for musicians but everyone really. The whole game of society is to promote itself for the future. It's built on insurance. It's why so many individual problems exist because the individual wants to feel stable and present but finds itself in a basically unstable situation and stockpiles everything for the future. That's why the Kurt's of the world are "artistic" because they aren't playing the society game anymore. They've checked out because they saw it for what it was, a game.

But is checking out the solution?

Because checking out through suicide might mean your intellectual mind had enough. You couldn't take it or think about it anymore and you didn't know the way out so you did the final act. But I still see this as thinking too much creating your problem. Like a spider trapped by its own web. It's like the Buddha saying to touch the earth. Or Christ saying to be of the world but not in it. Don't get so lost in your thoughts and forget where you are.

When you think about something, you objectify it. That includes yourself and that is really the ultimate alienation when you make yourself a concept of thought vs. staying with just where you are. Things don't get as heavy that way.

Someone who once lost their body said instead of trying to pass the test, you incarnated in a body, why don't you take the curriculum while you're here? 

There is something freeing to the individual about a character like Kurt. He was a symbol that provided hope or stability for the individual to connect with. So when someone like that takes the shotgun way out it's hard. I really think he was just a vehicle for spreading the ultimate message which is you are everything you've ever wanted. Don't be afraid to be you. And I think he knew that but the game is so big that maybe his way is the only way to ease the predicament.

 

9 hours ago, action said:

it was a tommy solo song, featuring additional members of the Axl rose touring band. just a bunch of session musicians goofing around in the studio, without input by the sole remaining member of GNR.

 

?? Axl is on backing vocals.

 

 

Just now, RONIN said:

The only problem with this theory is that Slash's version of events is more  or less corroborated by Duff, Steven, Matt, Izzy, and Alan Niven and it's further reinforced by comments to the press from James Hatfield, Mike Patton, Chris Cornell, and countless others who ran into him back then.

Axl Rose does not have many friends in the biz who would vouch for him the same way people do for Duff and Slash. That speaks volumes.

Yeah but did those share animosity towards him since he was the lone wolf carrying it on for so long?

 

What about that Insane Clown Posse dude and the story with Slash? Ask Moby. 

4 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Axl is a self absorbed, egotistical man who borders on the edge of insanity... He will never accept blame for his actions no matter how absurd or out of line they may be. He will always be the right or the one who was wronged and there will always be blind fanboys and hanger ons there to back him up. 

Axl still believes he had nothing to do with Slash, Duff and Izzy bailing on him. In his eyes, he was betrayed. The dude hasn't  matured an ounce.

"I don't know how I can release my book without seeming negative or complaining about everyone else." -Axl Rose, June 2016

49 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Slash lied because Axl said he did??? ok lol

 

No but Axl has made the comment before about Slash lying in his book. And he's maintaining it with Slash back in the band. The truth always finds a way.

Slash also admitted he had to rely a lot on others memory for a lot of the book yes?

If the shoe fits.

I would love to live a world where I could be so confident in something I have nothing do with or don't know the people involved. What's it like being you on a day to day basis?

Just now, Philipm787 said:

No no, I think Slash turned into an arrogant prick because of his drug and alcohol addictions, and simply could not be bothered dealing with an egotistical, crazy motherfucker anymore. Now that that has subsided, here we are.

Axl cannot speak with clarity as he is not mentally sane. Yeah yeah fair play to him, he's improving all aspects of his persona and performance, (about fucking time, he's 54).

And as I mentioned above, the wads of cash on the table is the primary reason they decided to patch things up, in my opinion.

You are speaking in a lot of absolutes about people you don't know, in my opinion. 

23 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Slash lied because Axl said he did??? ok lol

There was a lot more to Izzy, Slash and Duff ALL leaving than the flavor of the day Trends Axl wanted to chase.

Why does Slash want to work with what you called "  a self absorbed, egotistical man who borders on the edge of insanity... He will never accept blame for his actions no matter how absurd or out of line they may be. He will always be the right or the one who was wronged and there will always be blind fanboys and hanger ons there to back him up.  "

 

That makes your boy look like a little bitch for the limelight if your version is true. What other conclusions can a blind Axl fanboy come to?

 

You could also make the case that your venom for Axl is the same as the fanboys who think everything he's ever done is gold. A little one sided it would seem.

2 hours ago, wasted said:

They sogned that 7 record deal with Geffen and kind of wanted to be the next Aerosmith. Axl may have had more ambitions than that. 

It probably was the 90s money that guided a lot of choices. They really were set for a solid career but they had lost their cool? Other guys died trying to stay the same. 

 

Well I think it's just one of those situations that you can't say what you'd do till you're there. Hindsight is 20/20. 

Because they did have freedom on UYI but was that necessarily the best thing? Like Get in the Ring's rant or My world. Maybe Geffen had a point. 

I think we just need another album. Too much whispering and gossip for my blood. 

6 minutes ago, john lennon said:

Whoa whoa whoa, you don't have to go all defensive here, do you? 

Art is subjective and also, perhaps unfortunately, very much a fashion thing. I can name plenty of albums that, in my opinion, has multiple songs as good as those on Appetite for Destruction. Shit is, you probably won't agree. Why? Because art is subjective. Music is subjective. You can't take one album and then another album, state that the first one is the better and have everyone all over the world agreeing with you. Hey, I know people who would gladly listen to Justin Bieber rather than Guns N' Roses any fucking day. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong or that I'm right or wrong - it's a matter of personal taste. 

No doubt. I've been listening to AFD for a long time and still can't see what's so great about You're crazy and Anything Goes. 2 of my least favorite GNR songs. It's all subjective.

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

Axl is a self absorbed, egotistical man who borders on the edge of insanity... He will never accept blame for his actions no matter how absurd or out of line they may be. He will always be the right or the one who was wronged and there will always be blind fanboys and hanger ons there to back him up. 

Axl still believes he had nothing to do with Slash, Duff and Izzy bailing on him. In his eyes, he was betrayed. The dude hasn't  matured an ounce.

So why did Slash lie in his book then if it's that simple? Or why is he back now? 

I think Axl probably felt betrayed in that there was a certain vision the band had in the beginning and Slash knew Axl wanted to do things like November Rain but didn't show interest after the UYI tour. Like Ok we did it. Back to blues rock now. What Axl is saying makes sense to me based on Slash's releases and comments in the past. And Axl's recent comments of Slash willing to work harder on material he used to not want to do. I.e. This I love, TWAT, etc. It's a new style for him. 

Something changed and I think the opinion that it was all Axl's ego is starting to be more and more foolish. 

I think when Scott said that about Axl he was around a lot of animosity toward Axl from Slash, Duff and Matt. And didn't Axl say something in the press that kind of prompted that response from Scott? I can't remember exactly. But I think Scott felt a brotherhood in those days in VR so it was more like sticking up for a friend. Then as @CheapJon pointed out he changed his tune later on. 

 

What I always liked about Guns was the duality in their music. It's been a theme since the beginning. From the breakdown in Welcome to the jungle or the difference in lyrics between It's So Easy and Think About You. Even Lies had this effect. And of course the UYI's were pretty vast too. Like Coma is an event to listen to. Or Estranged and Get in the Ring are on the same record. Even TSI? gave us a 50's cover, Beatles Tribute, Manson cover and Fear all in one.

I think Axl likes this concept of duality or playing with the edge of things. And I think it's a hard concept to write music in because it takes a little more introspective thought. 

That's why I like Chinese. The title plays with the duality aspect and so does the music. I like the blend of all the styles. Like If the World. That might be one of the heaviest rhythm sections in all of Guns catalog and it's blended with very beautiful flamenco guitar. There was a time begins with a choir before letting us know about who she gave head while the 500 piece orchestra whistles. Catcher is Chinese's Coma in that it begins with a heartfelt message, has the breakdown, then comes in with a mad rush of thought in the end just like a psycho. 

I think the next record has to have this same concept. 

It would be cool. And I think Axl's voice would work. He and Scott both have that low register punk-ish element to their voices so I'm down. 

 

7 hours ago, wasted said:

 

It does make you think what success means. Especially to the artist who has to deal with negative side as well. Bands that were less successful like the Manics have a bigger catalog and all the videos, played stadiums. But just not as huge globally. 

I think this is what Axl was sort of getting at in the China Exchange. Had they formed their own label there could be more music. But then you trade in the mega success, popularity and money for complete artistic freedom. I guess you have to ask yourself is success a proper creative outlet or attention? 

This guy must have been devastated when they released Sympathy for the Devil.

4 minutes ago, Blake Sabbath said:

Yup, that's how I heard it

I don't know if he meant specifically CD material though. I took it to mean Slash is willing to learn and play things like This I Love, There was a Time, etc. now. The stuff that might be more layered or complex than say, Dead Horse or the blues rock Slash seemed to want to do exclusively for awhile. 

I've been thinking about the demos and the production lately and I'm really starting to appreciate the production on the final album more and more. I think the demos imprinted in our minds a certain concept of how that album would be and that is ok, but I think there is an element of unfairness when using it to judge the album too. The demo wasn't the product the artist wanted put out. It was a rough draft, nothing more. It's like being mad that Yesterdays traded in it's Stonesy vibe on the demo and replaced it with more southern rock on UYI2. There is a time and place for both but ultimately the one the artist puts out is what we should truly judge as fans I think.

I'll also admit I'm not proficient enough to even pick out all the sounds I'm hearing. I know a big gripe the album gets here is what's called the "layers" of guitar or orchestration. I think most who critique it in that way are probably in the same boat as me. Can anyone hear the sub bass actually? Or who cares that they used a 5th player as opposed to having 2 do everything. Uncle Axl is great at hosting family feasts, bring the kids! So why even let it bother? Sometimes it's fun to put our pre conceived notions down and just let something be. Listening to CD from a clean slate perspective and not reading the liner notes about how many were on that song, or thinking Axl actually got a guy with a KFC bucket to replace Slash, he's gone insane, or even from the mythical perspective it garnered over the years, and Axl himself for that matter. If you just take it for what it is, Axl nailed it. It works perfectly as the next in line album from the Guns catalog and as a few on here have pointed out it really sets the bar high for the next record. GNR have scope and I think it's underappreciated by a lot of the fan base.

Can GNR even afford an "Izzy" album as so many want as the next in line if they have taken on the arty wing of the hard rock genre? They are the Led Zeppelin of the generation. Really Guns have become the Led Zeppelin of America. I think Axl likes to evolve sounds to keep up with the changing times. The stuff I thought last year is different than how I feel this year type thing. So unless we are getting an anthology, I expect the next record to be more in line with If the world than dust n bones, Slash & Duff or not. Maybe today his writing style is different though. ACDC and Guns stadium tours can change a man so anything is possible.

To me CD is more in line with GNR's sound that any other solo album from the original 5 and that's no slack to Izzy, Slash or Duff, but I think the work speaks for it self if you are willing to judge it fairly and from a neutral perspective. Axl took elements of AFD and UYI and churned out CD. He blended sounds well. I usually only hear one style in the other's solo stuff so I think it's cool Axl is willing to experiment. High risk, high reward kind of situation.