BucketEgg

Dad meets GNR

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18xrnfl/what_is_a_band_that_is_ruined_by_one_member/kg8xc3n/

posted 2024:

My dad had VIP backstage passes to see them in the 90’s and part of it was obviously getting to meet the band. Axel went to the tour bus and refused to get off of it and meet anyone. My dad said the other band members were super nice though, especially Slash.

No applause for Axl
posted 2024:

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18xrnfl/what_is_a_band_that_is_ruined_by_one_member/kg6qjxp/

Went to a Guns n' Roses show in the 90s ... The band members came on stage individually, each to rapturous applause except Axel; it was genuinely brutal.

Bill ain't here

posted 2024:

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/1af6l0o/how_does_axl_feel_about_being_called_bill/koaxuic/

A friend a I made a sign that read „Hey Bill, u better get us backstage“ and held it up during a GN‘R show in 2006 in Austria. His reply was:“ Bill ain’t here.“ he didn’t seem to be too fond of our request.😜

Izzy is left alone

posted 2024:

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/1ajyv0c/does_izzy_live_in_lafayette_now/kp4eff1/

He still has a house here in West Lafayette near Purdue.  He comes back from time to time. Used to see him around sometimes. Nobody recognizes him, or if they do they give him his privacy.  

He has property on the east side of Lafayette by Wildcat Creek too that he at one point would race his cars around. You used to be able to see the tracks on Google Earth.

Duff and Susan talking to Amy Poehler

posted 2024:

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/1c3mb69/saw_duff_and_susan_tonight_while_i_was_working_at/

I was working local crew for the Tina Fey and Amy Poehler comedy shows at WaMu Theater (Aka Lumen Field Event Center, attached to Lumen Field where the Seahawks play) and Duff and Susan were there to watch the show and were later backstage talking to Amy Poehler after the show.

I also saw them a few years ago backstage at the Red Hot Chili Peppers show T-Mobile Park (where the Mariners play next door to Lumen Field) He, Susan, Chris Rock and Chris Rock's girlfriend were there to see RHCP backstage.

I've been close to a lot of famous rockers in my work as a Local Union stage hand.

Axl goes shopping

posted 2024:

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/1chbqhu/saw_axl_in_malibu/

For all of you gnr fans, I saw the man today. I am not a big gnr fan so wasn't sure where to say this but decided this was the best place. I was doing some shopping at Vintage Grocers in Malibu and ended up in line behind Axl. (Who knew he did his own shopping???) did NOT speak to him, there was one person in between us in line.. Not sure what they were discussing but I heard his friend (male) say Sedona frequencies? I don't understand. Does that mean anything to anyone?

Anyway I remember seeing some things he purchased:

A case of Stella Artois beer, Pickled walnuts, Kombucha (cabbage flavored to be exact), cramped chicken, Sparkling water and super size zip lock bags

Not any useful information but thought it was interesting to share.

Duff goes shopping, Slash at the movies

posted 2024:
https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/1chbqhu/saw_axl_in_malibu/l21z6ml/

Awesome!

I saw Duff at Whole Foods a couple years ago. He was wearing a mask because we were still coming out of COVID but it was definitely him. He was wearing a tank top, shorts, and a baseball cap. Was with his wife and asking her whether he should get Impossible or Beyond beef or something.

I also saw Slash at the movie theater once around 2019. He was a couple people behind me in the concessions line. I remember he was wearing a leather jacket and backwards Fear hat and was with his girlfriend I assume. I didn’t want to bother him, so I didn’t say anything but someone gave him a fist bump.

A bunch of Adler stories
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sweet-brother-of-mine-guns-n-roses-steven-adler-kidnapping-heroin-addiction-jamie-appetite-for-destruction-234022783.html

posted 2023:

He came in the record store I worked at (Christiana Mall) not long after he got kicked out of G-N-R (his wife lived in Hockessin, DE). He was shaking like a leaf. Was a nice guy though.

posted 2023:

I have had random encounters in Las Vegas with Slash, Chuck Berry, Santana, Robert Plant, and the list goes on over the last couple of decades. I'm just a normal guy with a desk job but anyway, one time about 20 years ago I was at a small club and Steven Adler was there, and so was Kevin DuBrow (Quiet Riot singer RIP). They got on stage and joined the house band for a few tracks. Adler looked OK but I guess I didn't realize he had a problem still. Sad.

posted 2023:

steven grew up in our neighborhood. remember him setting up a drum kit at Chatsworth park and just drumming away. he was passionate about it and hit the stars aligned for him and he hit the big time. wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed by far. but for those calling out his mom, he was definitely liked by most everyone he knew. always a big smile even if there wasn't a lot behind it.

posted 2023:
I was lucky enough to get to jam with Adler at a Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp in CA, back in 2017. He was super cool and friendly. Huge smile and totally humble. I have it on film. Awesome time!

posted 2023:
I dealt with Steve for about 6 months right before he went on Celebrity Rehab - he was a trainwreck for sure.  His 'handlers' - who shall remain nameless - kept him high on weed 24/7 so he wouldn't relapse on H.   

Geffen wants out
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/sweet-brother-of-mine-guns-n-roses-steven-adler-firing-slash-axl-rose-235859237.html

posted 2023:

I had a friend that worked with GNR as a "band liaison". Was told that Geffen was actively trying to get out of their contract because the band caused far too much trouble and it wasn't worth putting up with the destruction of property and extremely bad behavior.

I found one potential method that may help determine if a song is in a database or not, but not yet released. (Shazam has its own database. I think it's connected to Apple Music since the app is owned by Apple, but I'm not entirely sure on what music goes in the Shazam database.) Not a completely certain method though, since there hasn't been a wide range of songs to test it on.

So on a phone, there's an app called Shazam, that identifies music based on audio.  I tried it on Taylor Swift's album that has now released, but had some leaks earlier.You can tell the app could identify the leaked songs, but refused to name them, because it returned the "No result" page a lot quicker. Usually, if the app truly can't identify a certain song, it goes through several steps. The text on the screen goes "searching", then "Expanding search", then "This is Tough, last try", then No Result. But when I tried it on the leaked Taylor Swift songs, several tries in several different spots of the song bring up the No Result page after "Searching" or "Expanding Search", but it doesn't hang long enough to go to "This is Tough, last try".

The main exception of the leaked Taylor tracks that doesn't end early is one of the vinyl only exclusive tracks. That one has the song identifier hang until "This is Tough" before bringing up "No Result", possibly because Swift's team hasn't entered the audio of the vinyl exclusive tracks into whatever database Shazam gets its music from yet.

It works best on the vocal sections. (Sometimes you have to give it several tries on different sections of the song, since it might misidentify a song, or some sections of a song work better than others.)

https://www.shazam.com/privacy
Please note that use of the app means, according to its privacy page:

Information about your activity in Shazam to improve the app, such as the pages you view and buttons you select, device information such as make and model, operating system version, and IP address. We may also use this information to detect fraud or misuse of the service and may approximate your location to offer Shazam charts of trending songs.

In order to comply with laws or valid legal requests for information such as a subpoena or search warrant.

So only use this method if you're willing to rat yourself out to Apple that you've come across leaked music somewhere. Also if someone steals an unreleased song and posts it in a database/platform like Apple Music under their name, then the song identifying app brings up that person.

edit: she just dropped the second half of what turned out to be a surprise double album, and it turns out one of the vinyl exclusive songs was on it. not sure why the app couldn't detect it earlier (or any of the other second half songs that were surprise dropped). maybe the database is slow, because even after the songs for the first half officially released, the app wouldn't name the songs it could identify, until a few hours later.

Interestingly, someone noticed this site before us in late March, and tried (and failed, the archiving website  couldn't get the page) at archiving it, just one day after the domain was registered.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/www.officialaxlrose.com/

10 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

We need @BucketEgg 

sorry, Taylor Swift's new album is coming out in a day (and has already leaked) and she comes FIRST

I checked the Hell Rose Place trademark sometime in March to see if had lapsed or not. It was inconclusive at the time, because the trademark websites haven't updated, but now it says abandoned.

https://www.trademarkelite.com/trademark/trademark-detail/90086562/HELL-ROSE-PLACE

the whois lookup for the domain says
https://who.is/whois/officialaxlrose.com

domain
Registered On
2024-03-25

The person who registered the domain is listed as "Registration Private" and not much info is given.

There's not much I've found on the website yet that hasn't already been found by other people earlier in the thread

Clear view of the video playing in the background (nothing special, just videos of Axl in concert)

https://www.officialaxlrose.com/_astro/desktop.2P0YMcAc.mp4

The website is built with this Astro technology

https://astro.build/

omg, is this audio of seven!?!?1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEY-GPsru_E

I liked Killing Floor. I'm excited for this album!

On 3/30/2024 at 2:31 AM, Free Bird said:

There’s a runtime of 69:39min for 12 tracks. If you don’t count the instrumental there is still 66:38 min of music. That’s an average of over 6 min. per song. 

especially when you mention the songs are on the longer side  

Slash  at the Oscars during I'm Just Ken!

axl answer:

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=OxMPP/i5Z5i/N/ZGv1TCYA==

Allegations that Axl admits to:

10. Axl Rose has been the lead singer of the band Guns N’ Roses since 1985.
Known for his distinctive vocal style, Rose has sold millions of albums, performed in sold-out
arenas, and achieved extraordinary success as a world-famous musician

22. On information and belief, Rose was in New York City to help his friend, David
Andrew “Riki” Rachtman, secure the role of host for MTV’s Headbangers Ball.

5 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Do we have any theories on this? 

kids shouldn't go inside evil buildings because they will eat you.

The general single artwork and lyric video: Grey roses

Music video: Purple boys in modern street clothes

Opposites, eh? Not saying that one song can't have multiple imagery associated with it, but I wonder how long they've been planning the theming behind the marketing for the song

what I find especially annoying is that the non-live-action parts of the video does have some sort of theming, there's just so much mess interfering with it all.

Things I can spot from the video:
 

It's so frustrating because there had to be prompts and a vision that generated this stuff, and in an alternate universe, the same ideas could've looked way more coherent if filmed it or animated it. And you might possibly make out a story if you arrange the elements.

So outside, in the city, it's a place of freedom. The kids are travelling where they want, there's cute teddy bears around, it's a party. They could even have wings. Being outside is great for these children.

First time "sordid meaning" is shown onscreen, the house is shown, and the kids are inside drawing art. There's something bad about these buildings. But it shows outside fun places like the amusement park again. There's still access to the outside.

One of the Daddy don'ts, it's outside a building, and the kid is trying to make a stop gesture (sort of). But the kid gets to go walk down the hall to outside the building (with two shadowed figures watching him walk down the hall), after saying sorry (but will be under watch). Still have access to the outside.

The next Daddy Don't, the cop cars come, and ("I won't be good anymore, and you'll all be sorry") the cops probably force the kid to go to school. Being in school is a building, and that's bad. Because everyone at the school is laughing at your face. ("Can anybody tell me, why the pain it just won't stop?") The kid wants to fly off a building or hide in the underground, or take a train to somwhere else

And now down the hole,

the kid is now stuck inside. Inside, there's no party supplies, the teddies are decaying, your childhood is dead, and you're drawing all over the walls.

The kid wishes to fly outside the building walls, because there's dragons or monsters in the building.

More shots of the kid stuck in a building, artworks on the wall, newspaper clips, or blood in front of the kneeling kid. Also there's a weapon on the floor nearby. Sometimes someone is lying on the ground holding it. (It's AI, so it's not consistent).

Monstrous adults, and kids having to stand, facing monsters.

Ages pass, as the kid is continuously stuck inside the building that looks like a house in bad condition, Sometimes the teddy bears are back (and sometimes they look evil). Sometimes the kids are at the church, but the church is broken and there's monsters at the church too. The kid continues standing around the buildings with broken and bad furniture, and sometimes blood is on the floor. The kids begin dying and bleeding inside the building as they age.

More shots of kids stuck inside the building with various monsters. Or a camera.

Then it starts cycling through locations, like Mega Space Church, the outside, the monster attacking a kid, as if cycling through memories.

Basically, streets filled with roaming and partying kids, forced to be trapped inside buildings where there's monsters, and they go mad and rot away in there as their childhood dies and they age in there.

6 hours ago, Underhardy said:

Reddit mods 100% have TB ties. Just like Jarmo in the old days. They protect the band/Axl by censoring half the sub

5 hours ago, Uncle Bob said:

I posted "this is horrible" like half an hour ago and they deleted it. Do they wanna live in a bubble where the only thing they get is acceptance?

They finally let comments be visible

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/19elxty/guns_n_roses_the_general_official_music_video/

but if you go to the new version of reddit, you can see the moderators deleted the post itself from the subreddit

https://new.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/19elxty/guns_n_roses_the_general_official_music_video/

why are all the comments for the reddit discussion deleted?

https://old.reddit.com/r/GunsNRoses/comments/19elxty/guns_n_roses_the_general_official_music_video/

the reddit moderators are weird

If they wanted an animated video, they had a chance to make something as beautiful or interesting as the Rocket Man video...

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Because you don't ask for permission to use other's art as inspiration when you create your own art. No one is demanding this from conventional artists, hence it makes no sense to demand it from AI visual artists. Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. 

They're not pissed that people are being inspired. They're annoyed that their data is being taken.

"Whether the data is stored in RAM or neurons is irrelevant. "

I'm not going around going Yes it is, only for you to say, no it isn't, then I say yes it is, and then you say no it isn't, and it goes on and on.

For artists' feelings, it is. The data is what they're protecting with tools like Nightshade and Glaze.  https://glaze.cs.uchicago.edu/what-is-glaze.html   leaves visuals intact, modifies the data. They're not protecting the visuals or artstyle, that can't be protected. The data is what they care about. That's why I say it's relevant in what they're angry about, because digital data is the thing they're protecting. They're still letting anyone still look at their artwork and be inspired with their eyes and brain data. But they do not want the digital data to be taken and used without permission.

If you don't want to differentiate between digital and physical data, that's your belief, but your beliefs of whether things are digital or physical being irrelevant are at odds with artists believing digital and physical data are different, and artists who care about making sure only their digital data is protected but still letting anyone see their artworks and store data in their brain.

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I find your attempt at distinguishing between "digital data" and normal physical artwork, and computer memory and "brain data" irrelevant. In the end it is art being created at least partly influences, inspired, from other art.

It's not irrelevant in terms of why people are pissed off about their data being used without permission. If you don't want to distinguish in the ways the physical world and digital world differ, that's on you. But many artists feel the difference between another artist being inspired, and their data being taken, and they're angry at one, and not the other,

40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You don't see the similarity in artists memorizing the art of other artists, learning about the art of other artists, studying the art of other artists, and using this knowledge directly when creating their own art - like artists have done since the start of time - and AI visual arts software being similarly trained upon existing art? To me, this is very much the same thing.

I get that conventional artists are angry, but I don't buy their argument that this is sufficiently different from how it has always been. If you can't with good consciousness attack Eduard Manet for being inspired by Titian when painting his Olympia, then you can't with good consciousness attack AI for similarly being trained on Olympia. My point is, there is a fine line between simply being inspired by or straight off copying and plagiarizing anyone's art (not to say legally infringing upon), and I have yet to see a working argument that AI is any worse than how it has always been. Sure, you will find examples of AI art that crosses the line, but the same can be said for conventional art, too.

But I do get the anger, conventional artists are after all faced with a new type of competition and it is only human to get emotional in such circumstances and want to protect their interests.

The difference, really, is that AI art takes much less time (and hence it is less expensive, and hence it undercuts the prices of conventional graphical design), and that it can be done without having skills in conventional art creation (you would still need skills in AI arts, though; and poor artists, regardless of the tools used, will always create poor art).

Data.

It's all about digital data that makes the difference.

Knock off artists and inspired artists are human, and do not take digital data. They take other data for their brain, but that's not legally enforcable and doesn't function the way digital data does (you can't copy and paste and delete your brain data. It is not stored in servers. You can't license your neurons.)
The machines do not see, they take digital data, which is how machines are vulnerable to data modification in ways inspired artists are not.

https://venturebeat.com/ai/nightshade-the-free-tool-that-poisons-ai-models-is-now-available-for-artists-to-use/

https://amt-lab.org/reviews/2023/11/nightshade-a-defensive-tool-for-artists-against-ai-art-generators

An artist taking inspiration from another is not a machine, and is not taking digital data. They're using their brain data.

There's the aspect of controlling digital data.

And there's alternatives to not piss people off, like acting more ethical and and asking for permission for use of digital data. A lot of problems of artists refusing to enjoy AI as an emerging technology and tool instead of a competitor could've have been avoided if permission was asked for use of data.

Artists aren't trying to prevent people from being inspired and making their own artworks. You can't prevent humans doing that. You can't legally poison a human for being inspired by your artworks. You can prevent use of data that don't give permission for. You can poison a machine, and anger the people in charge of it, for using your data without permission.

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The counter-argument is that conventional artists also rely upon inspiration and being trained on the works of other artists. In all of our great artists, Picasso, Manet, Monet, Munch, etc,  one can see traces of other artists, one can see the inspiration, one can see how they copied each other, how they emulated each other, how they didn't exist in a vacuum. This is really not much different to how AI is trained on other works, too. 

The proof in the pudding is that the results, the arts created, are not sufficiently similar to be actual infringement of others works, and hence it is simply just another facet of age-old inspiration and not copying.

Counter argument to what? People getting angry? The concept of a machine being "inspired" (which is really business people taking other people's data without permission and putting it into a machine) is not going to stop people from getting pissed their data is taken, and their machine clone is replacing them by copying their data, and their clients are leaving them. That's why artists are poisoning protecting or poisoning their picture data with things like Glazed or Nightshade.

Even a human professional artist copier can't make art in 10 seconds to put others out of business. They may take some clients, but not enough to annoy artists on a level like we're seeing now, because unlike AIs, they work at human speeds.

For many artists, it feels like a competing business that's making knockoffs. Sure it's legal, and who cares if it's philosophically art or not, but you're gonna piss off people if your entire business relies on taking the data  of others without permission or compensation, and using that data to make knockoffs thousands of times faster, and potentially snuffing out the originator.

If the artists are angry their data is being taken without permission to be used in a business competing against themselves, nothing you can say is going to make them not angry about their data being taken. Nothing is going to make them less angry about losing clients. There is no logical argument against people being angry their livelihood, business, and money is diminishing because other people are profiting off their data, that is going to make them any less angry.

28 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

@kevinb or @troccoli would probably know best. I do remember reading somewhere that the Shallow song was played to Traci Guns who said it wasn't GN'R though

Was that about Your Looks are Gone, or Shallow? I remember Tracii denying Your Looks Are Gone https://old.reddit.com/r/Lostwave/comments/ovec3m/unknown_80s_glam_rock_song_your_looks_are_gone/  

if he denied Shallow as well, maybe I will look for that quote sometime

yes, i was the one that made this thread earlier

the "rarity" of this tape has been bugging me

the uploader of the tape on youtube says it's from summer 1985, but what tracks were on summer 1985 bootlegs has been written down, and no one mentions the songs on those bootlegs sounding like the ones on the mystery tape, so i'm guessing whoever labelled the mystery tape mislabeled it, or it was for another band

someone on evo said they've seen it before, bundled with another thing

i tried looking for bootlegs, seeing if anyone out there mentions anything like Shallow being bundled along with it. I've seen "Your Looks Are Gone" as the other not-GNR track bundled with GnR, but I'm having difficulty finding any references to something like Shallow, which is a longish song with complete lyrics. I tried looking at usenet archives, but I haven't seen anyone mention anything like Shallow yet.

Using the Shazam app on any of the songs on the tape (something that's pretty good at identifying songs based on audio) turns up nothing.

One of the songs on the tape resembles Welcome to the Jungle and ends with "You're gonna die", so I don't know if this is a band that came later that was inspired by Guns N Roses, or a coincidence, but if it's an early version, it wouldn't be in line with what's been said about WTTJ's origins, because it doesn't mention "jungle" or life in the city much in the lyrics, when pages like this mention the "jungle"  and life in the city aspect as an important part of the song's origin https://www.a-4-d.com/t72-welcome-to-the-jungle . There's a line in the song that sounds like "you're turning 21"

so if we add 21 onto Axl's birth year (1962), that would make 1983. But that would place it too early, into the Rapidfire days, and Rindmelon says the presence of multiple guitars counts it out of Rapidfire. And the "turning 21" line might not have any relation to real life anyway, and could be just a line for the song.

i've had no luck in trying to find any other people that mention copies of the song in an attempt to find the origin and time it was from.

13 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

This is also based on the NY Civil Procedure Code (my link is about the mailing part) just providing step-by-step guidance.

Here are all the related articles of the Civil Code:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2022/cvp/article-3/

The article that lists the methods of service:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2022/cvp/article-3/308/

The article about service by mail (the link I had posted):

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2022/cvp/article-3/312-a/

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2022/cvp/article-3/308/  mentions the nail and mail method, which seems the most similar to what Kennedy did, since the affidavit document mentions the "affixing to the door", and "personal and confidential"  put on the outside of the document.

4. where service under paragraphs one and two cannot be made with due diligence, by affixing the summons to the door of either the actual place of business, dwelling place or usual place of abode within the state of the person to be served and by either mailing the summons to such person at his or her last known residence or by mailing the summons by first class mail to the person to be served at his or her actual place of business in an envelope bearing the legend "personal and confidential" and not indicating on the outside thereof, by return address or otherwise, that the communication is from an attorney or concerns an action against the person to be served, such affixing and mailing to be effected within twenty days of each other; proof of such service shall be filed with the clerk of the court designated in the summons within twenty days of either such affixing or mailing, whichever is effected later; service shall be complete ten days after such filing, except in matrimonial actions where service hereunder may be made pursuant to an order made in accordance with the provisions of subdivision a of section two hundred thirty-two of the domestic relations law;

so since the https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=GY1gTBaAmwuqZ3NNKZqO5A==  document mentions being filed on the 12th,  the service could be complete by the 22nd, and then the countdown for the response could start.

9 minutes ago, GNRRHCP98 said:

Keep Melissa and her family in your thoughts… her father had a heart attack a few days back, requiring emergency surgery, and sadly appears he’s taken a turn for the worse. ❤️‍🩹

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2HTpoxub6K/?igsh=enpzNjhkcWY4M3Nk

that's terrible news. I hope things will eventually turn out ok.

I don't remember the contents, but I remember she and her sister were talking on a podcast, and at one point, they came to discussing their dad.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t7671-2023-01-31-citizen-sister-podcast-interview-with-melissa-reese

i'm confused about the timeline of the response again!

so there's blackstar's link saying the receiver has to send a receipt of acknowledgement for personal service by mail:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2022/cvp/article-3/312-a/

and then there's another link
https://undisputedlegal.com/serving-legal-papers-understanding-personal-service-in-new-york/

saying that along with "personal service", there's "substituted service" and "constructive service". (and Scream Of The Butterfly's link https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/dont-bother-avoiding-process-servers/  also mentioned multiple types of serving papers)

The CPLR provides information as to personal service upon a natural person. This could consist of personal delivery (process server), delivery by mail, or through an agent.

Personal delivery refers to the highest form of service, wherein service is provided within the state to the actual person to be served. Personal service is a part of the actual service, wherein the complaint or the summons is delivered in hand to the respondent. Personal service forms a triad of basic delivery with substituted service and constructive service.

Substituted service in the present case refers to delivery to the respondent’s residence as provided by an agent or an individual authorized to carry said service forward. Within substituted service, the delivery is done through another individual, rather than through publication or via a newspaper. Substituted service needs a two-step procedure to be fulfilled, wherein the papers are delivered within the state to a person of suitable age and discretion. This individual can be in the actual place of business, or they can also be at the dwelling place or usual place of abode of the person being served. However, if locating the defendant and presenting them with the service is an issue, substituted service is also possible by mailing the papers by first-class mail to the person. The two service methods are not mutually exclusive and can be done within twenty days of each other.

What about service by another individual? Delivering service by an agent within the state is delineated by rule 318, but this service method is not viable for a divorce case.

What if the defendant cannot be located from their past residences at all? Here is where nail and mail service comes into play. It functions as a last resort, done after personal and substituted service has failed. Nail and mail are self-explanatory, wherein the papers to be served are either [very literally] nailed or affixed to the door of the place of business, dwelling place, or abode of the individual or are mailed to them via first-class mail to their place of business or last known residence. Nail and mail service is done only after personal and substituted service has failed and is done inconspicuously. It does not indicate that the matter is concerned in a legal matter, even if it is marked ‘personal and confidential.’ Both processes of nail and mail services are done within twenty days of each other.

What consists of personal delivery, however? In cases of whether a defendant’s personal family comprises a personal delivery, it is held that service is upheld even if not directly received by the defendant themselves. However, this might not be held in all the states, despite the service of process under CPLR 308(2) requiring delivery of the process to “a person of suitable age and discretion.”

why does dumping legal papers have to be so complicated!?

eh, Axl and co and figure this out! It's their deadlines after all!