axlsalinger

As someone who used to work in a media related field, I am fairly used to seeing these types of letters from celebrities. The way the band went about it here leads to me to believe whatever MSL had was in fact fake.

Since a few people have "good post"ed this one, I feel compelled to step in and counter by saying, you are all fucking nuts if you still think this is fake. Seriously, enough with this idiocy. You can certainly argue about the merits of doing what MSL did, and even about the merits of discussing this story on a message board. Personally, I don't believe in censoring discussion regarding rumours about a band through legal action. And personally, I feel you are all fucking nuts if you do. However, at least on that point, I understand the argument.

Clearly MSL has something here. If you don't see that yet, then I guess Axl could come right out and say "MSL has access to band documents and emails", and you still wouldn't fucking believe it.

What about Live and Leit Die???? They took that song to another level.

KOHD to me is geared to be done live rather than listen to in the car or ipod.

I don't know, I tend to go the other way on this issue. Live and Let Die is kind of a dull cover - the reason it works live is because it goes so well with pyro and effects. I've always liked the KOHD cover, and especially the rambling phone message.

what is the last official music video , aint it fun ? i dont think there was one for oh my god .

"We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Are people really still questioning this, lol? Seriously, LOOK. AT. THE. PICTURES. Obviously, it's legit.

How is a society whereby the rich lives at the expense of the poor legitimate? How is collectivism (Europe), to an extent in which individual sovereign economies crash, justified (e.g. Ireland)? How can 24/7 surveillance (through all aspects of living) be okay? How can governments fund regimes which they demonize (e.g. Britain and Libya)? How can our “leaders” be dictated to by big business and bankers? How can imperialism be overlooked in an age of “social democracy” (e.g. Britain's continued occupation of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland)? How can Treaties legitimately be put to the people having already been rejected (e.g. Lisbon)?

Certainly increasing Chinese influence in Western society would be unpleasant, but let's be under no illusions here, we too as a people are oppressed (only in a more subtle manner).

There's a lot of problems in our "free" society, ie. North America, Europe, etc., as outlined above. But you're kidding yourself if you think they're comparable to what goes on in China and in the Middle East. For example, it is entirely possible that you could be rounded up and questioned for making that post, if you live there.

Sure, people are free to go about their daily lives, go to work, visit friends, etc. It becomes a lot more tricky if you decide to question the government, or the official religion (whatever it happens to be, depending on the country you live in). The Falun Gong (referred to by Axl in the song) is a religion in China, I've read a few articles about it, in my opinion it is total bullshit, but people should be allowed to talk about it and choose their own religion without fear of persecution (see article below). Sadly, this stuff happens all the time in oppressive regimes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/18/china-falun-gong-crackdown

China's Falun Gong crackdown: 'The persecution is almost underground'

The men from China's national security brigades came for Natalie Qiao's parents at 10pm on 8 June. Five young men in plain clothes bundled the elderly couple into an unmarked car.

The crime of Qiao Yongfang and his wife, Yan Dongfei, both aged 60 and residents of Huhot City, in Inner Mongolia, was to be practitioners of the banned Falun Gong religion, which has tens of millions of followers in China.

Ten years after the prohibition on Falun Gong was ordered by China's former leader Jiang Zemin, commencing a brutal crackdown on its adherents, believers such as Qiao's parents are still being pursued, despite international protests.

The only change is that the persecution is now more secretive.

Amid new protests in Britain, including a march today from the Chinese embassy to Chinatown to mark the anniversary of the Falun Gong crackdown, Natalie Qiao and a former detainee have described the continuing abuse, providing a detailed insight into how those deemed enemies of the Chinese state are dealt with.

Anyone practising religious observance outside officially sanctioned channels, including members of unofficial Catholic churches or Protestant house churches, risk detention. Other groups at risk include Muslims in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region, especially those branded as religious extremists by the authorities.

Falun Gong has been treated most harshly. Supporters outside China claim 2,000 have died in custody since 1999, and the UN alleges that the group's members feature disproportionately among those who have suffered torture and abuse. It is this that Qiao – who will hand in a petition to Downing Street on Monday – fears most.

"They took my parents after dark. They don't want people to know. The persecution is almost underground," said the 35-year old purchaser, who lives in Watford. "I got a call from one of the members of my family in China. They had tried to call my parents' phone and a strange man had answered and demanded to know who was calling. They do that to find other members of Falun Gong.

"My uncle then went to my parents' house. The building attendant didn't want to talk but finally he said what happened. But even then the local police would not admit they had been arrested. They said they didn't know. In the end we heard it through a friend in the police who told us they had been taken to detention centre number one.

"We are not allowed to talk to them. When we rang the National Security Brigades they said my parents were not co-operating. They have not written a letter denouncing Falun Gong or given names of other practitioners. My extended family at first refused to believe what was going on. They said the persecution of the Falun Gong was over. But it's happening every day."

Natalie is terrified about what is happening to her parents, amid well-attested reports of the serious maltreatment of Falun Gong detainees who refuse to renounce their beliefs, as well as darker, unproven allegations that some who have died in custody have had their organs harvested.

Annie Yang, an antiques dealer who fled to London after being released from a re-education through labour camp, knows at first hand what Qiao's parents are going through.

"I was arrested in March 2005," she said. "I was living in Beijing and was a practitioner of Falun Gong. They came for me in the evening. I'm a single mother and I was with my 16-year old son. Only one of the men was wearing a uniform. None of them showed ID.

"I told them I was a mother. But they took me and left my son on his own. They took me to a detention centre where they kept me for 40 days without access to a lawyer. At the end they said I had been sentenced to two years in a labour camp for being a member of Falun Gong."

According to Yang, it was commonplace until 2004 to use physical violence to make members recant and give up more names. She was subjected to a more insidious abuse.

"The camp made gloves. But I was not allowed to work or have enough food or water until I renounced my beliefs. I was made to sit on a stool for 21 to 22 hours a day. I had to keep my back straight and my knees and feet pressed together with my hands flat on my thighs. I was told I was not allowed to close my eyes. If I did, they would swear at me.

"If I wanted a drink I had to say: 'Please class leader...' and before I put down my cup: 'Please class leader...'. The only food I was allowed was half a 30g Chinese bun. It was hard and sour. No vegetables. I became so thin. It was so hot too. In the 40s. And they would not give me enough water.

"After three months I could not take it. I was nearly mad. I renounced. They force you to. They say if you don't we will extend your sentence. Against my conscience I gave them names too."

The persecution of Falun Gong is all the more peculiar for the innocuousness of the religion. Without any real formal leadership structure and no role of membership as such, adherents of the religion, founded by Li Hongzhi in 1992, follow so-called traditional qigong practices for both spiritual and physical development as detailed in Falun Gong's literature. Without formal rituals of worship, its central tenets are truthfulness, forbearance and compassion.

Falun Gong, which emerged in large part out of ideas prevalent in some aspects of alternative Chinese medicine, came to be regarded as a threat to the Chinese state after 10,000 of its practitioners staged a silent protest at the Communist party's headquarters in April 1999 to complain about attacks on its members, a move that led to its banning two months later. Accused of being an unregistered religion, spreading superstition and defrauding people, official organisations – crucially – attempted to suggest it was a politically motivated organisation, suggesting the real motive for the crackdown: the perceived threat it posed to the Communist party by its massive appeal.

Amnesty International's UK director, Kate Allen, who has been following Qiao's case, said: "This is a heartbreaking story – Natalie's parents were due to visit the UK to see their grandchildren at the end of the month. Now instead of preparing for a family visit, Natalie is worrying about their safety in a Chinese detention centre.

"Nobody should be locked up for their peaceful religious beliefs. Yan Dongfei and Qiao Yongfang should be released immediately and unconditionally, unless the Chinese authorities are going to charge them with an internationally recognised crime and give them a fair trial."

so where did the guy who got his copy get it?

he should see where the store got theirs, if they're selling them for only $5, this guy could make a killing on here!

I'd love a copy, the artwork rocks... a lot better than the copy I have.

We'd all love a copy. Guy who posted originally said he got it at a used record store in Los Angeles for $5. Probably they printed a limited # of copies for the band and friends, perhaps meant as a promo or preview for the eventual release.

My guess is that somebody with a copy sold a stack of used cd's to the record store and didn't realize or didn't care that this was in there, lol.

As for Axl's write-ups, cool that he did these things. Uncool that they weren't in the actual release. It's a pretty straightforward piece, basically an essay on the power of fear in China.

Interesting to read right now with the current demand for democracy and more freedom (and by extension, less fear of being able to speak your mind about politics without being whisked away to an unknown location by the secret police) in the Middle East and around the world.

It will be referred to as CD2 until Guns n' Roses provides us with an official title.

Is this a booklet with the spelling mistakes corrected? That's crazy stuff. Guess they were serious about re-issueing CD at one point or putting out alternate covers (even though it never actually did happen). Must've made some promo copies (or is there a warehouse full of these somewhere, lol.)

Guess the store didn't know what they had, selling it for $4.99.

With all seriousness, I trust Axl's judgment. I've liked pretty much everything he ever released.

I will accept Axl yodelling the alphabet at this point, if it means that they are actually releasing something.

"there's always some truth to exaggerations and a lot of times there's none, you know, so you can look at it whatever way you want to," he said.

This line makes me laugh.

Now, can't we movie this thread to the ex-gunners section where it belongs?

Alright, I think it's pretty clear this belongs in former members, eh?

Yes! Please work your modding-magic on this one!

How about we just move you there instead?

Worst. Insult. Ever.

Also, you know I'm right.

I don't know any such thing. Listen, I don't want to single you out, because people crying about locking this thread or moving that thread has become a fucking epidemic on this message board. This doesn't happen 5% as much on any other board that I visit regularly. Unless you are suggesting that you think the mods are incompetent, I'm pretty sure they can figure out when they need to lock or move a thread. If they did this every time someone started crying about it, there would only be an "What Does Axl Eat For Breakfast?" thread left.

I've got a crazy idea for an experiment. If a thread goes up that I like and you don't, how about I click on that thread and read it, and perhaps post in it. Here's the cool part: if you don't think it's a good idea for a thread, you can not click on it. Voila, problem solved!

Now, can't we movie this thread to the ex-gunners section where it belongs?

Alright, I think it's pretty clear this belongs in former members, eh?

Yes! Please work your modding-magic on this one!

How about we just move you there instead?

When did this forum become a no rumors forum?!? Am I the only one who thinks that's f*** up?

You're not the only one. It's fucked up.

All you Bumble apologists make me sick.

Slash - Built the GNR sound with Izzy and Axl and Duff and Steve. The disrespect that this guy gets on a daily basis is just ludicrous. He helped make one of the best albums ever made. PERIOD. I personally find his works post-GNR to be an embarrassment and his conduct unethical and dishonest at best, but fact remains - he made Appetite. Without him that record does not exist. Put aside your bias and bullshit and realize he is one of the all-time greats.

Bucket - This dude is the new Guns N' Roses, are you kidding me? He built the backbone of every song that you heard on Chinese Democracy with help from Pitman, Axl, and Robin. Any music cred or respect for the new GNR was because of this guy yet you exiled him because of what? He wore a fucking mask? You smallminded philistines.

Bumble hasn't done SHIT yet he gets all the praise? Oh that's right, he ruined SR and Rhiad with some elephant noises. Forgot about that. You guys are ridiculous.

This is a damn solid post. Have to say I agree totally with your Slash assessment. Axl appears to have been right about Slash's lack of interest in evolving as a guitarist, as we have seen in the work he's done since then, which while decent-good for the most part, really isn't anything special. But Slash had as much to do with AFD as anyone, and it's one of my very favourite albums to this day. In addition, don't forget about his contributions to the Illusions. I can't comment on how hard it was to get him to play on certain songs, but I can comment on what songs were released. And pretty much all my favourite songs on those records are the ones where both he and Axl contributed something special to the song (Estranged, Breakdown, Locomotive, Don't Damn Me, November Rain).

After Slash left, Axl was stuck in an almost impossible predicament trying to replace him, but still managed to hit it out of the park with Buckethead. It's a damn shame he left, because he made New GNR special in his own way. The work we've heard is great. The problem is, this was a guy who wants to get out there and play all the time, and release music often, stuck in a band that refuses to release any new music, and only tours sporadically.

The amount of shit that Buckethead had to endure because he likes to wear a mask and bucket on stage was beyond ridiculous.

The problem in trying to assess Bumblefoot as a guitarist in GNR is the same problem that caused Bucket to leave. He's in a band that doesn't release any songs. So how the hell can we assess him? I'll say this. He's a great guy, and he can shred. The band needed somebody to play Bucket's parts, which I can't imagine was an easy roll to fill. Bumble can do it. Right now, that's all that matters. Once we hear songs where he was a main contributor in either the guitar parts or the songwriting, we will be able to comment further.

I was never a huge fan of Robin Finck, although I did enjoy his work a lot on that last tour. Richard Fortus and DJ look cool onstage and play their roles very well. They're good guitarists. Once again, hard to say how much of an impact they have on the band in the studio.

My favourite GNR song is Estranged. In fact, when the subject of 'favourite songs ever' comes up, I mention this one along with 2 or 3 others. Pretty much everything about this song is brilliant - the lyrics, vocals, guitar, keyboards. I even love the drumming on this one, and was never a huge Sorum fan. Such a complex piece of work that comes together so well.

I guess I may be biased because I love the song so much, but it's also my favourite GNR video. There are some that hate the dolphins but I happen to love it.

There's an element of emotion in there that you rarely hear in popular music. Although Axl has always tried to add this element to his songs, which is one of the reasons they're so good. The lyrics are really dark and meaningful. Perhaps Slash's finest hour on the guitar as well. Just an amazing song on many levels.

Yeah, I was on that mailing list once upon a time. Still remember the excitement when a commercial came out for End of Days that featured a short clip of "Oh My God" in it. Wonder what happened to Boerio, he started a GNR website at one point but that was a long time ago.

Doesn't look like this has been mentioned here yet, but GNR also posted on Twitter earlier today, seems like it's all systems go according to this tweet, which also had a link for an arena pic:

gunsnroses Abu Dhabi DOOO!!!! Yas Arena, Yas Island is where we ROCK AND ROLL! on Dec 16

Aren't they in Abu Dhabi? They have a lot of weird rules in that country, even though Abu Dhabi is much more progressive than the surrounding area there are still things you can't do there that are considered commonplace elsewhere in the world. I'd say it's just as likely Tommy's pissed about some rule or law there as something involving Axl/GNR. Unless I'm missing something here?

Worst idea ever.

Always great to hear from the Man in the High Castle. I guess I just tend to ignore the negative creeps but I can see why they piss Axl off. It's different when they're talking about you. He should definitely speak up like this more often.

Love the secret shows, and it's great to hear that the band is enjoying themselves. Obviously when you play a venue that holds only a few hundred people, it's going to be hard to get in. That's kind of the point. I would love to get a ticket to one someday though.

I wouldn't have bothered to address the "sweat" issue because whoever came up with that nonsense may just have written the lamest and most pathetic "argument" in the entire history of the internet. Anyone who is surprised that a musician will sweat in a small hot club will suffer enough having to go through life with such a tiny IQ.

Great rant Axl, and seriously. Keep 'em comin.