Intercourse

Oh sane folk of myGNR...why bother?

It's done.

The numbers have spoken.

The world won't drink Axl's cool aid..

Only a few down here have.

Leave them to it, its probably too late for most of them to climb down.

GNR must be the only band that has been around for 8 years with a line up that hasn't released any music that actually has fans who prefer that line up to the original line up that made them fans in the first place.

Its like seeing a wedding band play Sweet Child O' Mine and deciding to follow them instead of the real thing...hold on..wedding band...

MSL?

GNR focused far more on new material while on tour since the release of the album than almost any of their peers would ever dare consider.

First of all, most of their "peers" wrote the material they play on tour..

Second, Chinese Democracy Tour Stats from http://www.gunsnroses-livestats.com/

Top 10 most played songs on the tour, shows that the old band's output is the bedrock of their performances.

1. Welcome to the jungle 327x 2. Paradise city 325x 3. Mr. Brownstone 322x 4. Nightrain 318x 5. Live and let die 317x 6. You could be mine 316x 7. November rain 315x 8. Sweet child o' mine 305x 9. Knockin' on heaven's door 304x 10. It's so easy 300x

To describe this as a "jukebox hits routine" is naively inaccurate at best, and deviously disingenuous at worst

No, no it isn't. Especially when you promote gigs with titles like "Back to the Ritz" and "Appetite for Democracy" with album art from a different line ups album on full show.

You also insinuate that Axl is no longer passionate, but offer no explanation for why GNR consistently plays well past their contractually required performance length, often playing for hours on end for no reason other than their own personal preference to play as long as possible for the fans.

Would you call an overweight, out of breath, forgetting the lyrics of November rain, misery guts at his biggest gig in Rio a guy who brought "passion" to the table?

GNR's musicians play the long gigs, Axl is missing for up to 30 minutes a gig as the band wind through various jams, covers and solo spots. Axl rarely plays big gigs anymore. Put him up against Bruce Springsteen to see what a 3 hour gig delivered with passion by an old guy who can still hold the stage should look like. Come back to me with something meaningful then.

GNR is alive and well, despite the calculated lies of former members designed to sink the band. Axl is exponentially more successful than those former members, with many successful years ahead.

Bogus points everywhere here. "Alive and well" as compared to what? His peers? Compared to Metallica, U2, Bon Jovi or the other big rock acts out at at the same time?

Alive and well when you bury the bar underground maybe.

Ok Alive maybe but well?

Even the nutjobs are sick of waiting for new music. He's the first A-list act in history to be managed by his housekeeper and her son. The fall from where GNR were and what they could have achieved has been epic.

Yes, Axl is more successful than his former members, only 'cause he held the brand GNR and all of the momentum behind it that the same old members your mock helped develop. Which he uses more than ever to sell himself.

Actually when VR were #1 and winning Grammy's at that time they were technically more successful than GNR so your point has no meaning.

If the Edge left U2 tomorrow and went solo would you expect him to be as successful as Bono if he kept touring as U2? No you wouldn't.

It is the former members that have been defeated. Whining and crying all these years later about the band continuing on without them. Axl keeps his mouth shut and does what he wants, when he wants. He can headline anywhere in the world, an incredible feat considering the band had to be rebuilt nearly from scratch.

How were they defeated? They all seem pretty rich and content to me. What are you on about? Direct me to the articles or interviews filled with such stuff.

When it comes to whining and crying Axl is in a league of his own. The lyrics of CD are one long whining ode to self pity.

Stephen is the only one who sounded hurt at all. The rest pretty much wished him well or avoided the subject altogether.

Axl can headline anywhere in the world but check out youtube, Slash is working, headlining and to crowds in Australia and SA that are pretty substantial. Don't understand your point.

Did Axl really "built the band from scratch"? There is a huge difference in effort required around hiring musicians to play other peoples material versus building a real band. The band might actually nearly be there as a real band but I can't see what that has to do with Axl. I mean they all say they are writing now but guess who isn't writing or recording any lyrics for the mucis they give him...anyone??

Axl has been vindicated. He has an incredible band that has his back and far more people are interested in seeing that band than they are in seeing any of the former member's bands.

Maybe in MSL land this is true. The vast majority of people go to see GNR and get the hits from their youth...just check the demographic of the crowd. They have accepted that its Axl and a human backing track, a damn good one at that and that's cool. Nobody goes to those gigs to decide if Axl is "vindicated". People in the real world don't give that much of a shit.

Other members of the band have found legitimate success inside and outside of GNR, with The Replacements, Sixx: AM and The Dead Daisies helping raise the profile of GNR.

Outside of the US, those bands are tiny sticky notes on the ass of the musical landscape. You mock the ex-members for their output and popularity but hold the Dead Daisies as helping raise the profile of GNR. Pleeease...

Why not haul Rhianna in here also as Fortus worked for her?

Your overly negative analysis of the situation speaks more to your own issues than Axl's.

I think you should look in the mirror there buddy. Most of what you've written is hysterical and highly personal conjecture.

The fact is that it only gets oxygen down here in the anus of a forum dedicated to a band that is about 25% as popular as it was in its heyday.

I'm a bigger fucking idiot for wasting my lunch break typing this out.

It boils down to the fact that the world doesn't give much of a shit about any of them anymore.

And no amount of semantic gymnastics here from either camp will change that.

- I got a handjob in a portaloo at GNR's Slane Gig in Ireland in 1991. The smell of shit was so unbearable I almost lost my horn but the girl was worth it and I soldiered on to the messy end.

Axl takes Axl faaaar too seriously for this theory to hold true

The reality they could have just joined Axl under the GNR name and carried on. They all have enough money. It doesn't effect royalties, show pay. Yes they still had to work with Axl. It's only really pure chance that the brand name GNR is useful in 2013 as a touring brand name. Back in the 90s the name was a bust late 90s.

So if you were the co-founder of a company that was now grossing €100M a year and the most unstable, most likely to cause mayhem guy on the team set up a company with the same name and asked you to work for him, you'd agree?

Yeah riiiight....

I think you can understand that and still see those guys didn't want to do what needed to be done next, whereas Axl was willing to stand and fight or wait it out til he got a record.

I don't think this is fair. Duff (a less polarising individual than Slash or Matt) stated that Axl just didn't seem to know what he wanted mucisally and that after two / three years of trying Axl felt that nothing the guys did was good enough. That's an impossible position to put any musician in, unless they are purely in it for the money. Axl did this for so long that Bucket and Robin also quit long after the old guys did - don't forget that. Axl's journey was not one based on standard time frames or logic...

Maybe it would be wiser to go solo

I think he should have. Just shelve the name GNR and go out there without that bruden of responsibility and show the world your vision. I think if he had done this in 1998 - 1999 he could have been a huge solo artist and sold millions. There was enough interest in him and his music. he could go pick up GNR when he felt like it but always be able to go back to the solo gig to bring out his electronic side.

For me if you have a singer like Axl or Tyler the band has to support him

Yeah but for how long? Its not logical to give Axl total freedom to put many lives and careers on hold while he thought this out (or not as the case often was). This was just fucking rock music, he wasn't developing a cure for cancer.

This is not about old band versus new, people from both camps quit in frustration and boredom. The stories are out there, engineers sitting in studios for weeks, A Perfect Circle releasing a platinum album because Josh had so much spare time to write and record while he hung around waiting for Axl.

Axl cannot always.get the diplomatic pass. Each band member played his part in how things got to where they are today. Axl needed a mentor who could have moved him away from his more self pitying and controlling excesses while the other fuckers should have been locked in a rehab and sorted out. The band had no balls when it came to Axl and were ok to let him drift away behind a wall of yes men.

I think Lars in Metallica is a dick most of the time but I truely admire the way he got in Jame's face in that HORRIBLE film Some Kind of Monster and just started shouting "WHO ARE YOU?" He broke through to James, despite how unpleasant it was to watch.

Axl needed that kind of tough love challenge from his band but instead they slunk off to the bar..

he is now and look where we are...

And before the Slash vs Axl thing gets worse..

Nobody follows Metallica, Pearl Jam, AIC, The Stones etc the way they do Axl for the same reasons as they don't follow Slash. Its a bunch of older men going to work..

One side just make music and tour....the other side hires cleaners as managers, comes on late, sacks people regularly, blows tens of millions on an album, hates on his old band mates, goes into seclusion for a decade... its just BRILLIANT stuff to watch and discuss.

Its the same reason Maury is more entertaining than Bloomberg news.

One is full of screaming bitches and the other is the calm pursuit of a professional career.

This is fucking boring...no one person can be a band of equals.

One person can believe they are the band, but that's just their ego and hangers on talking bullshit to them.

Axl thought he was the whole band, and at one stage Slash thought he was all the guitars; both men have since been proved wrong.

A sultana is never the whole cake, its the ingredients around the sultana that make it taste so good. Take them away and its just a fucking sultana.

Apply this simile to GNR and there you go..

Bulldog is correct, there are many chords but there is a logical and standard musical scale running along the backbone of the riff that holds it all together.

izzy did have trouble with it, only because he had almost fully unplugged from GNR at that stage and never rehearsed it with the band fully before going on tour.

As usual Volcano keeps smashing the hate and wild sweeping assumption buttons, nothing new there of course. Carry on.

I saw Velvet Revolver live a few years ago, the crowd was blown away by the energy of the band and the sheer power of the delivery. Stick a healthy, ripped, back-in-the game Axl in front of that band and I guarantee it would be worth it. Those guys have something that few others have..band chemistry.

Never going to happen though. Axl ain't for turning.

I know it's a harsh move by Erin Everly; but we shouldn't pretend not to be fascinated by these items. Potentially the biggest news story of 2013.

It is not a harsh move, it is beyond sick to be honest, and it will not enamour you to the Guns camp in any way whatsoever if UK Subs is trying to set up a channel with them

Of course, I would expect mygnrforum to roll with this, it is what people like here, but it is about where you want to draw the line.

Of all things in the world, this is not good, this is very very bad.

Yeah yeah yeah. Even if it is, in your worst case, a horrendous betrayal, does it really matter? Just because Axl is crazy sensitive and paranoid about stuff doesn't mean any of us or the forum at large have to follow his example. At the end of the day, it a bunch of corny old letters from an old rock star to his old flame. The abuse stuff is poor taste. But I can't for a minute gin up any outrage. There's real shit worth caring about in the world I think. Don't be a drama queen. Besides, if it wasn't this pissing off TB and Axl, it would be something else like dr pepper or bad vibes or dr Eliot Maynard.

This.

You were not "trying to be nice". You were trying to censor people by threatening to withdraw the pearls of your insider knowledge as a punishment for discussing what Ranch rightly describes as a few frankly pubescent love letters written decades ago. Nobody in the real world gives a shit, there are bills to pay. If Uncle Ax wants to stomp out of a small forum in a huff because of this then good luck to him, he obviously has his priorities all fucked up.

It would have been a bigger victory to keep the original UYI band together and come out with a genre defining rock record. That's what makes a great band. Anyone can sack everybody, form a new band and make empty claims about bringing a new sound, its a new fucking band afterall, of course the sound is different.

There are lots of Slash haters here but the quality of the man's layering and recording skills are undeniable.

Put on "Breakdown" then put on "The Blues" and note the difference in how the guitars are layered. Slash has a God given talent for it.

He would never be the Edge but a good producer could have channelled his guitar through some novel effects sounds to see what they could pull out of him in return. The start of "Watch This" on his solo album is an example of where he should have been pushed. He has it in him but needs it extracted.

CD is missing the skills that Izzy & Slash had for setting the scene for Axl to go off on, Duff used his motown influences to bring the swagger inside the beat. CD is too mechanical and drenched.

Has any band posted themselves doing stripped down CD tunes? Not acoustic, just a 5 piece?

I think Axl had no idea whom CD was "intended for".

He was desperate to stay relevant, even ahead of the curve. He had millions of dollars to play with and all of the indulgence a man could hope for from the industry. I think Axl was heavily influenced by the way U2 re-invented themselves and came out with Actung Baby when they were staring down the abyss of dinosour rock irrlelevance.

So..Axl threw the lot at the album and as a result it sags under the weight of 15 years of tinkering and procrastination.

CD is the mirror image of all things Axl: wild ambition, ego & arrogance mixed with huge insecurity, heartbreak, self pity and obsession.

None of the best and worst that these traits would bring to the music was hemmed in as Axl was now the uber-BOSS of GNR and answered to nobody.

Back in the day, the other "equals" in GNR helped manage his energies in songs, without them all of the "Axl stuff" got turned up to eleven giving us CD.

Its a very brave effort but delivered in ridiculous circumstances.

For me CD perfectly represents Axl's personality both good and bad.

Brilliant ideas about but many got drownded under years of over thinking and constant fidgeting, driven by a deep seated lack of confidence.

Brilliant vocal performances in places but too many lyrics moaning about how his hard life is and how everybody is out to get him.

Too much time wasted and too many missed opportunities - "Better" released as a more organic rock tune in the early naughties could have changed everything for GNR 2.0.

CD leaves me spent and a bit depressed if I listen to it all in one go. I feel like my ears are constantly trying to filter out modern studio noise to hear the quality of the tune beneath.

I still can barely finish it.

Reminds me of when Tony Montana was about to shoot Frank in Scarface and the guy is crying on the ground begging pitifully.

So glad Axl didn't take this douche back.

Nobody has to apologise to anyone (except maybe their partners and siblings) for their career choices.

Axl made his decisions and many people used to care (the millions of fans) , now maybe not so many.

If the man is happy and feels this is the only way it could be, then there is no more to say really.

Axl need only apologise to his legacy and place in history because even though its unique and made even more so by the CD saga, he should have been leading a band as big as U2 or the Stones. But if he didn't want that crown then the man is clean and clear.

The late starts are rthe only thing that needs a public apology.

Here's my advice:

Grow the fuck up, stop acting like teenage girls and hug it out, you washed up old bitches.

There it is in a nutshell. People take sides but both men are totally to blame.

I just think Slash has tried a little harder to end the hate.

Punk when he was young

Diva when he got rich.

Used to really like Nirvana, listened to them lately and could only stomach about 30mins... out of tune, misreable and dirgy.

Too old for teenage angst music now.

They were great times though, you could switch from the bedroom rock of Nirvana to the brutal assault of Slayer to the huge tunes on the UYIs.

Do kids these days have that spectrum of rock?

Looking back I would have released 10 more albums after uyi. I would have counted my blessings that I got rich as fuck and didnt have to get a real job. I would have learned that my good fortune was because of my band members. I would have showed up to my concerts on time.

amen brother!!

Why did Axl give Goldstein the boot in the first place?

2001: Chinese Whispers (Page 1) / 2001 / GNR Evolution - Guns N Roses Forum

www.gnrevolution.com, 23 July 2013 [cached]

if Coca Cola put water into their cans and said "FUCK you, its Coca Cola to us!"

would you call it Coca Cola?