Punk

[metallic ko]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

[DopeSickGirl]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

[metallic ko]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

[DopeSickGirl]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

*sigh*

Sure, they were a big influence on punk, but they weren't a punk band. They were the build up and catalyst to getting punk out there; but not a punk band.

Edited January 4, 2008 by DopeSickGirl

[ffrankwhite]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

*sigh*

Sure, they were a big influence on punk, but they weren't a punk band. They were the build up and catalyst to getting punk out there; but not a punk band.

twas the sex pistols i believe? yes it was...even the stooges, dolls werent really punk bands. they were just rock n roll the way it should be. the ramones i suppose you could argue but even they were like...heavymetal bubblegum. the pistols were the first fully realised article.

[Guest Satanisk_Slakt]

Noteable AMERICAN punk bands(first wave):

-The Ramones

-New York Dolls

-Dead Boys

-Iggy Pop

-The Stooges

-Suicide Commandos

-X

-DOA

-The Germs

-Bad Brains

Shouldn't Misfits be here? They're fucking great!

However, you know much more then me about this genre, so you're probably right. They were just, with Sex Pistols, The Stooges, The Ramones and New Youk Dolls The first band that came on my mind.

[DopeSickGirl]

Hah! OMG!

I can't believe I forgot 'em!

Thanks for pointing them out SS!

..along with The Misfits we get another subgenre; Horror-Punk!

-Misfits

-The Undead

-Frankensteins Drag Queens From Planet 13

-Rosemary's Babies

..generally this subgenre is characterized by the black hunour within the lyrics, based upon horror films and normally featuring zombies/the undead/vampires of some sorts haha

[metallic ko]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

*sigh*

Sure, they were a big influence on punk, but they weren't a punk band. They were the build up and catalyst to getting punk out there; but not a punk band.

Why sigh???

You obviously dont know what punk means if you don't think the Velvets are punk band. Rancid aren't a punk band, and for some unknown reason, you seem to think that having a mohawk makes you a punk and your band punk, which it doesnt.

Edited January 4, 2008 by metallic ko

[DopeSickGirl]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

*sigh*

Sure, they were a big influence on punk, but they weren't a punk band. They were the build up and catalyst to getting punk out there; but not a punk band.

Why sigh???

You obviously dont know what punk means if you don't think the Velvets are punk band. Rancid aren't a punk band, and for some unknown reason, you seem to think that having a mohawk makes you a punk and your band punk, which it doesnt.

Haha, sigh because you manage to make everything relate to VU.

I'm not denying that they had some influence on the punk movement; of course they did. In fact they pretty much set the whole thing off rolling like a snowball effect, but there is no way I'm gonna accept that they are a punk band.

Rancid are a punk band. A generic one who totally rip off The Clash; I've never denied that but it doesn't mean I dislike them, I do, in fact love 'em. But still, they are a punk band.

I liked the way because I challenged what you said about VU and other people agreed and backed me up you felt the need to accuse me of having zero knowledge about punk btw. Really mature tactic of you there.

I'm well aware slapping on a mohawk don't mean shit.

[ffrankwhite]

Punk is (was, however you wanna see it) an anti-establishment rock music genre and movement that emerged in the mid-1970s, originating in England but spreading all around the world by '77. Punk bands tended to ignore the mainstream until it was thrust upon them, creating fast, hard music, typically with short songs, stripped-down instrumentation and often political or nihilistic lyrics unsuitable for the 'mainstream' to accept.

Um, no.

Well NYC//

..if you prefer.

Yeah, I do prefer.

VU were the first punk band, FACT.

*sigh*

Sure, they were a big influence on punk, but they weren't a punk band. They were the build up and catalyst to getting punk out there; but not a punk band.

Why sigh???

You obviously dont know what punk means if you don't think the Velvets are punk band. Rancid aren't a punk band, and for some unknown reason, you seem to think that having a mohawk makes you a punk and your band punk, which it doesnt.

the velvets have punk attributes but they are not a punk band and werent thought of as such until very recently and thats only by people who are writing books about the origins of the seeds of punk and its roots. elvis's music is rooted in blues but he was hardly a blues singer now was he?

[lawrence]

never rated the clash, in my opinion wich i imagine i'm allowed one on here

the clash shouldn't be labeled punk

[Lithium]

Haha, sigh because you manage to make everything relate to VU.

I agree, it's getting annoying.

VU should be looked upon as protopunk.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Lithium

[DopeSickGirl]

Haha, sigh because you manage to make everything relate to VU.

I agree, it's getting annoying.

VU should be looked upon as protopunk.

Thank you!

[Raw Power]

It should be more focus on Iggy & The Stooges in this thread.

[Zint]

Noteable AMERICAN punk bands(first wave):

-DOA

They were (are) Canadian.

A key component to the early punk scene (ask any band that toured at the time).

Also very important in the early Canadian scene were the Viletones...as good as the Pistols at times (sometimes better).Lester Bangs called them the most important band in the world (at the time...'77)...or was it best band??...I dunno...I'd have to look it up.

Make no mistake...Toronto and Vancouver were key components to the early scene.

(I'm talking eeearly)...Vancouver a little later than Toronto.

Toronto was a key city to the very early scene.

more later...(hopefully this won't turn into a ten page debate with frank )

if anyone on here was a part of the "movement" (or whatever) if they'd would do an interview over e-mail?

I was...as of '78.

frikkin ridiculously busy right now,but PM me your email address and I'll get in touch,then you can send me your interview questions

no promises that I'll make your deadline,but I'll try

[Shuffle]

You have a pm zint!

Thanks to everyone for helpling us out

[Wando]

I made a school project about punk too, it was great :] Anyways, I also made a thread here back then and got an amazing, surprising answer from zint, which I ended up using as the source material for my project.. You might find it interesting as well:

The Misfits

The Clash

The Ramones

I think even if you asked punk bands that were around then, and punk bands around now, they'd agree that the misfits and Black Flag and the ramones and maybe a hand full of other bands are the sole reason punk's still around.

Misfits were not important in the formation of punk.I don't know one single person who got involved in the scene as a direct influence of the Misfits.

They brought the Alice Cooper image into the fold moreso than others...and wrote some great songs in the process,not much else.

By the way,this leads to (coicindentally) the answer I've been meaning to post in this thread...EVERY single person who was involved in the punk scene in the 70's (that I ever met) was a huge Alice Cooper fan.I'm talking about the original Alice Cooper Band.

It didn't get much more antisocial in '73 (on a mainstream level) than Alice Cooper.It seems mild now but they were over the top outrageous back then,and everyone (that I ever met) who later formed the early punk scenes in their respective cities acknowledged they were fans.

John Lydon auditioned for the Sex Pistols singing along to I'm Eighteen on a jukebox...(I would have LOVED to be a fly on the wall to witness THAT!!).

Lydon is a HUGE Cooper fan,in fact...he contributes to the liner notes with a cool article in the Alice Cooper box set.

a few quotes..

"I've referred to the Sex Pistols as "musical vaudeville" and "evil burlesque" and,for me,there was definitely Alice influence there.And I'm very proud to say so,because,without that,I don't think I would have had that extra kick when I was young - and you do need that when you're younger,to mold you in the correct direction."

"Killer is the best rock record ever made,which,of course,followed the masterpiece Love It To Death..These two albums,put together,were just too much for an angst-ridden teenager such as myself to handle.I realized I never really wanted to make rock music because I thought those two records were the best it could be!And that's why I made sure the Pistols had a different approach.I didn't want to imitate a genre that I thought was so excellent.You can be influenced by people who excel,but you should never copy."

"I've never made it a secret how much I admire Alice Cooper.Some people may think it goes against the grain for me to say I'm an Alice Cooper fan.Good,it's supposed to."

I know exactly what he's talking about,a neighbour of mine introduced me to the Killer album in '71 and it blew my wee little mind!(I immediately went out and bought a copy of Hit Parader with Alice on the cover...and yes,I still have it!).My neighbour was so amused at my intense attraction to the album and the band that she gave me the album (CALENDAR AND ALL!!)..(yes,I still have the calendar!).

I can't explain to you in words why I became such a huge fan at such a young age (he's my all time rock god!).Looking back I tend to think that perhaps I viewed him as something that was mine (so to speak)...what I mean is,everyone around me thought he was a freak,in my neighbourhood Stones/Zep people roundly viewed him/them as a joke.

That was fine with me...so the cretins don't get it....their loss!

Plus I was completely captivated with the antisocial extreme dangerous (at that time) image.

A bunch of guys in a band with a chick's name ignited a huge social/religious/moral explosion.

I wasn't aware of all that at the time...nor did I care....it was cool as fuck and I totally got it (on a certain level,I didn't read more into until I was older).

That completely coincides with how I got into punk.It was a gig at a hall (the bands had to rent a hall,the bars were still too scared to let the bands play).The singer of the headlining band (the Demics) lived in my neighbourhood and he hung out with my older sisters.I'd been hearing a buzz about this band and was curious to see them.Myself and a few friends snuck in the side door.And the whole scene...the bands,the people on the floor smashing into each other,everything...had this insane intense electricity to it.It was an energy level and a rush I had not experienced since...well...the day my neighbour played Killer for me.

I connected with it,dove in head first...and was just as thrilled to find out that the punk scene was equally villified as Alice was (by the masses).Once again,I had managed to tap into a musical force that was dangerous,electrifying,chock full of brilliant songs (Bodies and Under My Wheels are two of my all time fav tunes),frowned upon by the "stiffs",and most impotantly...knocking the rock world on its collective ear!

And as I became entrenched in the punk scene,I was amazed to find out that everyone seemed to be of the same opinion about Alice Cooper...I never ever met a punk who slagged the original Alice Cooper band.

Their influence on punk is massive,and largely...unaccounted for.

Here is the thread I made back then if you want to take a closer look.

[Shuffle]

I made a school project about punk too, it was great :] Anyways, I also made a thread here back then and got an amazing, surprising answer from zint, which I ended up using as the source material for my project.. You might find it interesting as well:

The Misfits

The Clash

The Ramones

I think even if you asked punk bands that were around then, and punk bands around now, they'd agree that the misfits and Black Flag and the ramones and maybe a hand full of other bands are the sole reason punk's still around.

Misfits were not important in the formation of punk.I don't know one single person who got involved in the scene as a direct influence of the Misfits.

They brought the Alice Cooper image into the fold moreso than others...and wrote some great songs in the process,not much else.

By the way,this leads to (coicindentally) the answer I've been meaning to post in this thread...EVERY single person who was involved in the punk scene in the 70's (that I ever met) was a huge Alice Cooper fan.I'm talking about the original Alice Cooper Band.

It didn't get much more antisocial in '73 (on a mainstream level) than Alice Cooper.It seems mild now but they were over the top outrageous back then,and everyone (that I ever met) who later formed the early punk scenes in their respective cities acknowledged they were fans.

John Lydon auditioned for the Sex Pistols singing along to I'm Eighteen on a jukebox...(I would have LOVED to be a fly on the wall to witness THAT!!).

Lydon is a HUGE Cooper fan,in fact...he contributes to the liner notes with a cool article in the Alice Cooper box set.

a few quotes..

"I've referred to the Sex Pistols as "musical vaudeville" and "evil burlesque" and,for me,there was definitely Alice influence there.And I'm very proud to say so,because,without that,I don't think I would have had that extra kick when I was young - and you do need that when you're younger,to mold you in the correct direction."

"Killer is the best rock record ever made,which,of course,followed the masterpiece Love It To Death..These two albums,put together,were just too much for an angst-ridden teenager such as myself to handle.I realized I never really wanted to make rock music because I thought those two records were the best it could be!And that's why I made sure the Pistols had a different approach.I didn't want to imitate a genre that I thought was so excellent.You can be influenced by people who excel,but you should never copy."

"I've never made it a secret how much I admire Alice Cooper.Some people may think it goes against the grain for me to say I'm an Alice Cooper fan.Good,it's supposed to."

I know exactly what he's talking about,a neighbour of mine introduced me to the Killer album in '71 and it blew my wee little mind!(I immediately went out and bought a copy of Hit Parader with Alice on the cover...and yes,I still have it!).My neighbour was so amused at my intense attraction to the album and the band that she gave me the album (CALENDAR AND ALL!!)..(yes,I still have the calendar!).

I can't explain to you in words why I became such a huge fan at such a young age (he's my all time rock god!).Looking back I tend to think that perhaps I viewed him as something that was mine (so to speak)...what I mean is,everyone around me thought he was a freak,in my neighbourhood Stones/Zep people roundly viewed him/them as a joke.

That was fine with me...so the cretins don't get it....their loss!

Plus I was completely captivated with the antisocial extreme dangerous (at that time) image.

A bunch of guys in a band with a chick's name ignited a huge social/religious/moral explosion.

I wasn't aware of all that at the time...nor did I care....it was cool as fuck and I totally got it (on a certain level,I didn't read more into until I was older).

That completely coincides with how I got into punk.It was a gig at a hall (the bands had to rent a hall,the bars were still too scared to let the bands play).The singer of the headlining band (the Demics) lived in my neighbourhood and he hung out with my older sisters.I'd been hearing a buzz about this band and was curious to see them.Myself and a few friends snuck in the side door.And the whole scene...the bands,the people on the floor smashing into each other,everything...had this insane intense electricity to it.It was an energy level and a rush I had not experienced since...well...the day my neighbour played Killer for me.

I connected with it,dove in head first...and was just as thrilled to find out that the punk scene was equally villified as Alice was (by the masses).Once again,I had managed to tap into a musical force that was dangerous,electrifying,chock full of brilliant songs (Bodies and Under My Wheels are two of my all time fav tunes),frowned upon by the "stiffs",and most impotantly...knocking the rock world on its collective ear!

And as I became entrenched in the punk scene,I was amazed to find out that everyone seemed to be of the same opinion about Alice Cooper...I never ever met a punk who slagged the original Alice Cooper band.

Their influence on punk is massive,and largely...unaccounted for.

Here is the thread I made back then if you want to take a closer look.

Thanks man, that's great!

[Shuffle]

Thanks to frank I've been to the library today and borrowed England's Dreaming by Jon Savage and the Punk Attitude dvd... I'm gonna watch it tonight, it's three and a half hour long so it'll take some time

[ffrankwhite]

maybe, as a neat little tie in to all this academia, get a buddy and go see a punk band, at total random, whether current old new whatever, just pick one out of a hat thats playing (if theres a scene in sweden like it sounds like there is shouldnt be hard) and then take whatever emotion you get from that into writing the piece, that way it might give you a little consistence of perspective maybe? who knows, they might blow your mind and be a watershed for ya or they might be some by the numbers dross that makes you wonder a little about the state of the whole thing, either way i think it'll be quite rewarding in general and benefit the writing too. you could possibly like make a little epilogue out of it and tie the end in with some form of overview commentary. or just allow the expierience to dictate a sort of overall 'today' mood to the piece. plus, punk rock was never REALLY about academia as such. its about 'get in there' head first you might wanna point out something like that actually, the irony behind the sort of entire concept of the exercise that you're undertaking. also possibly about the assimilation of punk rock into the mainstream and the wealth of literature now available on the subject which is useful as historical documentation if not a little ironic on some levels, punk rock being as practical as it is.

Edited January 9, 2008 by ffrankwhite