Why do you think Axl is reticent to set the record straight?

[Gagarin]

That video is stupid.

[Apollo]

Probably because people don't usually talk about 20 year old break ups. I'm willing to be that none of the OG crew (besides Stevie, of course) think about the break up or the old days on a regular basis unless someone brings it up to them. 20 years ago. Everyone has moved on. They have families, new bands, non-music related ventures, doctor's appointments. Would you want to get asked about your ex girlfriend from 20 years ago all the time?

Exactly.

And people that keep saying its all axls fault need to take off their blinders.

Everybody in the band was at fault.

Egos, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, different music desires.......

It was 20 friggen years ago. Let it go people. Duff, Izzy have taken the stage with the current band. Think about that.

If YOU are more concerned about this than the actual band members involved.....then it sounds like you have some anger and ego issues to get a handle on.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Scott Weiland said he wasn't sure if it was all Axl's fault after he was fired from Velvet Revolver.

[vaida]

I'd say I really don't understand why he feels he has to treat the "release" of his side of the story like it's the second coming of Christ. Look at how long and detailed his "homework assignment" was. Why couldn't he even just summarize his side? What was he doing all of 2011 before Rio that kept him so busy from setting the record straight? Sure as Hell wasn't rehearsals....

I guess the bigger question is, can everybody else (Slash, Izzy, Duff and associates during that time that back up their claims) be wrong and lying except Axl?

End rant.

Its all comes down to one thing - EGO

The ego acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bringing grief.[12] At the same time, Freud concedes that as the ego "attempts to mediate between id and reality, it is often obliged to cloak the Ucs. [unconscious] commands of the id with its own Pcs. [Preconscious] rationalizations, to conceal the id's conflicts with reality, to profess...to be taking notice of reality even when the id has remained rigid and unyielding."[13]

The ego comprises of the organized part of the personality structure that includes defensive, perceptual, intellectual-cognitive, and executive functions. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious. Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.[1] The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organise our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us.[1]"The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces."[14] Still worse, "it serves three severe masters...the external world, the super-ego and the id."[13] Its task is to find a balance between primitive drives and reality while satisfying the id and super-ego. Its main concern is with the individual's safety and allows some of the id's desires to be expressed, but only when consequences of these actions are marginal. "Thus the ego, driven by the id, confined by the super-ego, repulsed by reality, struggles...[in] bringing about harmony among the forces and influences working in and upon it," and readily "breaks out in anxiety — realistic anxiety regarding the external world, moral anxiety regarding the super-ego, and neurotic anxiety regarding the strength of the passions in the id."[15] It has to do its best to suit all three, thus is constantly feeling hemmed by the danger of causing discontent on two other sides. It is said, however, that the ego seems to be more loyal to the id, preferring to gloss over the finer details of reality to minimize conflicts while pretending to have a regard for reality. But the super-ego is constantly watching every one of the ego's moves and punishes it with feelings of guilt, anxiety, and inferiority.

To overcome this the ego employs defense mechanisms. The defense mechanisms are not done so directly or consciously. They lessen the tension by covering up our impulses that are threatening.[16] Ego defense mechanisms are often used by the ego when id behavior conflicts with reality and either society's morals, norms, and taboos or the individual's expectations as a result of the internalisation of these morals, norms, and their taboos.

Denial, displacement, intellectualisation, fantasy, compensation, projection, rationalisation, reaction formation, regression, repression, and sublimation were the defense mechanisms Freud identified. However, his daughter Anna Freud clarified and identified the concepts of undoing, suppression, dissociation, idealisation, identification, introjection, inversion, somatisation, splitting, and substitution.

"The ego is not sharply separated from the id; its lower portion merges into it... But the repressed merges into the id as well, and is merely a part of it. The repressed is only cut off sharply from the ego by the resistances of repression; it can communicate with the ego through the id." (Sigmund Freud, 1923)

In a diagram of the Structural and Topographical Models of Mind, the ego is depicted to be half in the consciousness, while a quarter is in the preconscious and the other quarter lies in the unconscious.

In modern English, ego has many meanings. It could mean one’s self-esteem, an inflated sense of self-worth, or in philosophical terms, one’s self. Ego development is known as the development of multiple processes, cognitive function, defenses, and interpersonal skills or to early adolescence when ego processes are emerged.[12]

-Wiki

Axl Rose has issues, and thats no big secret.

Edited December 19, 2011 by vaida

[Cawso]

What does it matter anyway? Its not going to change anything or magically transport everyone back in time to when they were all still together and functioning as a band.

It's water under the bridge that passed 20 years ago, and like with any story over time the actual truth becomes more and more diluted.

The whole situation doesn't bother me personally, and why should it? This was between the band at the time and none of them has a responsibility to talk about it publically and essentially it was (and still is) a private issue. Axl has chosen not to talk about it and I think you've got to respect that.

Bring on the future....stop digging up the past.

[Jboogie]

Setting the record straight would mean Axl admitting his role in fucking up the band...which in hearing accounts from Duff,Slash & Izzy...was a whole lot on Axl's part.

[dalsh327]

I knew a guy who literally went through about 10 different roomates in about two years. Every time he talked about it, the issues and why they moved out was always the roommates fault.

Axl is either the unluckiest man alive................or he is a very difficult personality to work with. I tend to believe the latter.

He is extremely talented, no doubt. But there is nothing to "set straight." Axl, while brilliant, is narcissistic. The reason the album took so long is 100% Axl. He is the guy who fired 8 or 9 managers. He is the guy who made a drummer take 9 months to re-record note for note the previous drummers parts. He is the guy who never shows up to rehearsals and wouldn't collaborate with the band in the 90's.

He is also the guy who came on these message boards and made a lot of promises, then disappeared. The infamous "Better" video that was coming next week....that was about 150 weeks ago and we are still waiting.

Again, I think he's brilliant, but I don't get why people run around looking for record company conspiracy theories when it is obvious that Axl is root cause of the problems.

You also have to wonder what Doug Goldstein gained out of it, and if he was playing sides in order so set himself up for life, or was he the bearer of bad news to Slash and Duff on behalf of Axl. Henchman or self-serving? What was the outcome in his parting of the ways with Axl?

You also forgot to add - Axl is litigious. He focused more on lawsuits than on music. And I think he's always been insecure about his songs.

I know with a lot of bands, they implode because the longer they're together, the opinions get stronger.

I don't think Axl denies he's difficult at all.

[saber_]

Vaida, don't post fucking Freudian bullshit in my goddamned thread. Not only has Freud's structural model of the psyche been completely obliterated in scientific circles, but moreoever Freud's definition of the ego is completely separate from the "ego" you were lamely attempting to ascribe to Axl and Slash and whoever else. Dumbass.

[axlslashduffizzysteven]

axl says the same thing all the time: he's told us the reasons, but some people don't want to hear it.

[axlslashduffizzysteven]

axl says the same thing all the time: he's told us the reasons, but some people don't want to hear it.

What were they again? The projection he made on Slash about Slash wanting complete control of the band? That's literally all I can remember about his reasons is the Snakepit thing. What else was there?

i dont really know. i just know i've heard him say that answer a bunch of times.

[KiraMPD]

I’ve spent the past hour or so looking through this board and trying to gain an overall objective view on the whole Slash vs. Axl thing and I think us fans are over complicating it a bit. It all boils down to two things; what does Slash have against Axl and what does AXL have against Slash? People generally focus the statements made by Slash (and then backed up by other sources) and tend to lay the blame majorly on Axl. I'm not saying that's wrong, just the fact that so many sources have backed up the stories regarding his "egomania" have me thinking that they may be closer to the truth. But why does Axl hate Slash if he was in the wrong himself?

What does Slash have against Axl? (I think we would all agree with the following)

- Ego

- Lack of professionalism

- Musical taste (or their vision of what GnR music should be)

- Possession over the GnR name (that blasted contract and the case about the royalties)

... and I think that’s pretty much what it boils down to.

Now, what does AXL have against Slash?

Most would say nothing really; he is that asshole that "broke-up" the band. I personally think that Axl's 'hatred' for Slash didn't develop until a significant time after he left. Axl remained very quiet during the period of 1994-2000 (hell he remains very quiet even now). I don't remember Axl slating Slash in any interview up until 2002ish. Sure there was the thing at MSG where he lost his cool but at the VMAs he said in a vague way that re reason it took so long to make a comeback was because Slash had left and he was left to figure out "how do you get past that?". But I don't remember any direct criticisation on Axl's part (correct me if I'm wrong).

I think the shit really started to go down publicly during Velvet Revolver's promotion where Duff and Slash kinda slated Axl and blame him for the GnR situation. Slash admitted in his book that he did this due to shear frustration which is understandable; here you are trying to promote this awesome new band and all people can ask you about is GnR. But this had a snowball effect of people (media, fans etc) turning on Axl. Let's be honest, those few words almost destroyed Axl so why should he not hate the guy that spoke them.

That is what I think Axl's hate is centred around as far as the Slash situation goes. After that several unfortunate words have been exchanged between the two artists (along with a few lawsuits) and it’s gotten to the point where talking about each other has become awkward and frustrating. And most of this is our fault as fans and the media's fault for trying to escalate the situation. We can't let it go and so we won't let them let it go.

I think Slash describes it best in the Eddie Trunk interview in 2010 "It's been - like - 14 years since I've been in that band. I mean, come on man! It's been out there touring successfully, I've been in 3 band since then, get over it."

But we never will... and that’s just a little sad.

I think the only way us fans will get over it is if there was some sort of interview done with all five of the original members there and they could talk it out amongst themselves about what they thought happened/what really happened ect. Dr Phil Style!!!

Edited December 20, 2011 by KiraMPD

[vaida]

Vaida, don't post fucking Freudian bullshit in my goddamned thread. Not only has Freud's structural model of the psyche been completely obliterated in scientific circles, but moreoever Freud's definition of the ego is completely separate from the "ego" you were lamely attempting to ascribe to Axl and Slash and whoever else. Dumbass.

I think we all agree Axl has an Ego, and winning is his option opt at all time no matter what.

As for Ego. I just used that as an example. Go Google your own takes on 'Ego'. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong.

[sailaway]

Vaida, don't post fucking Freudian bullshit in my goddamned thread. Not only has Freud's structural model of the psyche been completely obliterated in scientific circles, but moreoever Freud's definition of the ego is completely separate from the "ego" you were lamely attempting to ascribe to Axl and Slash and whoever else. Dumbass.

Agreed,a verbal bitchslap is in order,and at the very least give a nod to Jung.

It's amazing how many internet-know-it-alls take themselves seriously,and actually believe they have the definative answer.

[Brodie]

Great question.

I'd assume it has to deal with not wanting everything on the table for public consumption.

Connected to that is Axl's poor behavior coming to light, forcing him to take responsibility and being publicly accountable for his BS.

It's amazing how many internet-know-it-alls take themselves seriously' date='and actually believe they have the definative answer. [/quote']

Stop white knighting.

Speculation and discussion is all we have, since we're not given a definitive or substantive answer.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Brodie

[Apollo]

Ego from Axl

Drug addiction by Duff, Adler and Slash

Not liking the direction of the band by Izzy

Different band members wanting the band to go in different musical directions.

These guys weren't lifetime friends that grew up as best friends since birth. I believe that Axl and Izzy were buddies as teens? But the rest of the band all got together in their early 20's? So this is a group of musicans that formed a band as young adults, had some quick HUGE success, went from living on the streets to being millionares and on the cover of Rolling Stones......once that power of money and success hit them, and the skyrocketing success evened out, they figured out that they really didn't want to all work together anymore. It happens. JUST because they had a couple hit albums doesn't guarantee lifetime friendships and that you have to stay in that band forever.

Axl is doing his thing.

Slash/Duff started a new band. While also having solo side projects.

Izzy is doing his own thing.

Adler is doing his own thing.

THe only people still obsessed about the breakup and whose fault it is are a few posters on GnR forums, who take the issue way more seriously and personally than the actual members of the BAND we are talking about.

Duff and Izzy have taken the stage with the new band. Slash apparently is friends with DJ, and probably with everybody else in the band.

Thread over.

[sailaway]

Great question.

I'd assume it has to deal with not wanting everything on the table for public consumption.

Connected to that is Axl's poor behavior coming to light, forcing him to take responsibility and being publicly accountable for his BS.

It's amazing how many internet-know-it-alls take themselves seriously' date='and actually believe they have the definative answer. [/quote']

Stop white knighting.

Speculation and discussion is all we have, since we're not given a definitive or substantive answer.

So why participate in the endless circle-jerk? Will a definative and/or substantial answer affect your life? Are you "entitled" to an answer concerning people you don't know personally? No on both counts.

Maybe you should start watching soap-operas,to feed that aspect of your appetite.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Because he's not the innocent victim, like he's tried to paint himself as. He's responsible for the break up of the original band, his 4-5 year isolation in his mansion, and the long wait for chinese democracy. He blames the old members, the record labels, management, etc. but the music business has been around for a long time, and no one else seems to have the same problems as him...

Dexter bait

Is this post serious? I hope not...that's so retarded I don't even know where to start. If I was a nerd I would put the facepalm picture up right now.

If you were a nerd you would be calling people retarded on an internet message board ... oh wait.

What he said was retarded...did you read it? He said "the other members sold him the name fair and square, he can do what he wants." I'm so sick of hearing that bullshit. Look, I love Axl as much as anyone else (well, almost...some of you board members are a little overboard) but how can you not call his bullshit? Especially on subjects like this...at least say "he legally strong armed the band into selling the name to him fair and square" because morally and ethically it was a slimy, dirty move to pull on someone, especially your "friends" who you rose from the gutters with to conquer the world.

As an entertainer, Axl rules all...I think most of us on this board agree on that. But as a person, he is very weird, egotistic, arrogant, bi polar, etc. Some of this might contribute to him being as awesome a performer as he is, but still. And only on this board do you find people who blindly defend his every move as if someday he's gonna knock on their door and personally thank them for standing up for him through all the years.

Sorry, your argument falls flat there. By that time, it's well-documented they were not Axl's "friends." Not even close.

[Kill Devil Hill]

Great question.

I'd assume it has to deal with not wanting everything on the table for public consumption.

Connected to that is Axl's poor behavior coming to light, forcing him to take responsibility and being publicly accountable for his BS.

It's amazing how many internet-know-it-alls take themselves seriously' date='and actually believe they have the definative answer. [/quote']

Stop white knighting.

Speculation and discussion is all we have, since we're not given a definitive or substantive answer.

So why participate in the endless circle-jerk? Will a definative and/or substantial answer affect your life? Are you "entitled" to an answer concerning people you don't know personally? No on both counts.

Maybe you should start watching soap-operas,to feed that aspect of your appetite.

There's nothing else to talk about...

[Georgy Zhukov]

I am going to write a personal letter to Axl to release another album so we can have something different to talk about.

[Apollo]

There is a lot to talk about, besides bringing up 20 year old negative crap.

How about the three hour incredible shows the band is putting on every night?

How about the band, apparently reading this forum, and adding the two most requested songs to the setlist in Estranged and Civil War?

How about Axl doing a TV interview? How about the rest of the band doing interviews in almost every city?

How about the success of this tour? The band going on stage less than an hour after the opening band closes.

How about the random different opening bands every few concerts?

How about Duff taking stage with the band?

How about Duff opening for GnR?

[sailaway]

There is a lot to talk about, besides bringing up 20 year old negative crap.

How about the three hour incredible shows the band is putting on every night?

How about the band, apparently reading this forum, and adding the two most requested songs to the setlist in Estranged and Civil War?

How about Axl doing a TV interview? How about the rest of the band doing interviews in almost every city?

How about the success of this tour? The band going on stage less than an hour after the opening band closes.

How about the random different opening bands every few concerts?

How about Duff taking stage with the band?

How about Duff opening for GnR?

Groghan,how dare you try and be positive on this forum!

(All very valid points by the way)

[Kill Devil Hill]

Okay. Besides saying, "OMG SO COOL." what else can you say about anything you just posted?

Nothing. Those aren't really "discussable" because we pretty much all share the same opinion.

Topics like these have millions of opinions, so there's a lot more to say.

[phaeryen]

For quite some time, Axl has referenced the fact that people don't know the whole story regarding an array of significant GnR subjects. In the chats, at rock in rio 2001, and a few other times, he's made it clear that there's a lot of misinformation and lies out there. Yet, it seems that he's long been reticent to set the record straight fully. The question is: why? Is he waiting to write a book? Did some of Chinese Democracy's lyrics address these things? Or has he already addressed things sufficiently? What say you?

he positioned himself so as to have a 'war' with slash over the media in early 2000s when he still was angry and hurt over what had happened to the band. he wanted to release a magnificient album, beat slash and his band in sales statistics, while "setting the record straight" in the media over and over again.

then there was the delays, and the catastrophe of 2002 vma's, the tour that floundered and failed. axl went back into hiding.

too much time passes, things change, axl's band changes... cd comes out and he is a nostalgia act suddenly, slash's band has come to its demise, everyone is growing old... another decade passes and changes into the next...

suddenly its more like, who the hell cares anymore what happened in 1996.

[Kill Devil Hill]

For quite some time, Axl has referenced the fact that people don't know the whole story regarding an array of significant GnR subjects. In the chats, at rock in rio 2001, and a few other times, he's made it clear that there's a lot of misinformation and lies out there. Yet, it seems that he's long been reticent to set the record straight fully. The question is: why? Is he waiting to write a book? Did some of Chinese Democracy's lyrics address these things? Or has he already addressed things sufficiently? What say you?

he positioned himself so as to have a 'war' with slash over the media in early 2000s when he still was angry and hurt over what had happened to the band. he wanted to release a magnificient album, beat slash and his band in sales statistics, while "setting the record straight" in the media over and over again.

then there was the delays, and the catastrophe of 2002 vma's, the tour that floundered and failed. axl went back into hiding.

too much time passes, things change, axl's band changes... cd comes out and he is a nostalgia act suddenly, slash's band has come to its demise, everyone is growing old... another decade passes and changes into the next...

suddenly its more like, who the hell cares anymore what happened in 1996.

Sounds about right.

[Georgy Zhukov]

We can talk about band member's favorite foods. I need to stop posting while hungry.