Axl's Single Most Fatal Error

[Ragnar]

Why did n`t he allow Mike Clink to produce Chinese is beyond me

Mike Clink is a supporter of Slash the Devil

Anyway the problem with CD is not the production. The problem is terrible lyrics and crap songs written by Paul and Diz. The only redeeming factor is Buckethead, and he left.

Bullshit main issue of CD is production everything was thrown in songs whether it was neceessary or not songs themselves range from good to great

[vaida]

..all water under the bridge now. You can't re write history, no matter how hard some might try.

[Facekicker]

He should have done a complete vocal overhaul. Some of the vocals are so pathetically obviously tooled with it's disgusting. That combined with the fact that some vocals in the same songs sound like they were recorded ten years apart is a problem.

The vocal style he used on Bach's Angel Down album might not have worked for every song, but it would've been more well received for songs like Catcher, Shackler's and IRS than what we got.

He sounds more "like Axl" on Angel Down than on the entire of CD. It is shameful when you think about it.

[jimb0]

He should have done a complete vocal overhaul. Some of the vocals are so pathetically obviously tooled with it's disgusting. That combined with the fact that some vocals in the same songs sound like they were recorded ten years apart is a problem.

The vocal style he used on Bach's Angel Down album might not have worked for every song, but it would've been more well received for songs like Catcher, Shackler's and IRS than what we got.

He sounds more "like Axl" on Angel Down than on the entire of CD. It is shameful when you think about it.

This was also after touring with rasp. Many of the vocals recorded on CD are so old they were recorded before he started touring with the new band. Axl did better in a couple hours than he did in ten years.

And about the 'Appetite' reference I believe Axl said he wanted to do that, but not having Slash made that impossib.e

[alfa75]

To me the songs that sound like Old GNR are This i Love and Street of Dreams.

Axl used the name because he can make more money with it. He would never sell 5 million copies with a band called Axl Rose or as a solo artist.

Axl went into a different approach and the music has quality, but it was terribly mixed. Whoever mixed the album did a lousy job. I think Axl should have tried to re-record everything. I mean after all this years of adding bits and pieces to the songs, when they found the perfect tune and the perfect sound for the songs and thought to release it. They could have just done all the drum, guitar, bass, vocals sound effects again, so it didn't sound so layered or wrongly mixed.

Which old GNR song does TIL sound like? Before you say NR or Estranged, go back and listen to those songs. TIL was the moment for me the Axl lost all semblance of what I would call a GNR sound. Imagine in 1987, listening to TIL and imagining that would be from "GNR" in 2008. It sounds like an Axl Rose spoof, like someone making fun of his extravagant piano epics, which I love BTW.

As far as SOD, always seemed like a song that could have been left OFF UYI because they wisely chose to use to instead use NR.

I agree that IRS and Better, sound the most like old GNR. Prominent guitars, hooky chorus, similar arrangements, etc.

Axl's most fatal error prob happened in 1991, when he allowed his own ego and attitude contribute to the downfall of the original lineup (NO I do not want a reunion). Izzy leaving was the beginning of the end.

[J Dog]

He should have released it somewhere around the 99-02 time. With Brain, Robin, Buckethead all on board. It would have had a completely different feel. I think he was really close to releasing it at that time, but somewhere during that tour, it all went down.

[Roush]

It would have been better if Axl had just retired in 1994.

Release a few books, some poetry, do a few guest spots, or maybe do like Duff does -- and write a reoccurring editorial. That would've been nice to gracefully bow out of the music industry. Instead, he's completely disgraced Guns 'N' Roses. It has evolved from 5 dudes sharing a crack den in L.A. writing street music to Axl Rose, and his employees being managed by the housekeeper of his ex-supermodel girlfriend, and her trust fund babies.

I mean, dude...

[Apollo]

Not releasing new music and not showing up prepared for the "big" public events.........how can you bury an old band and revive the GnR name when you put out one album in 20 years and you show up to the big name public events out of shape, horrible voice, forgetting lyrics, etc.

If Axl had put out 4 GnR ablums post-classic line-up and had taken the time to rehearse before shows like the VMAs and RnR, then he would have eliminated a huge portion of the "haters" out there.

Oh yea. And did a couple more interviews, stopped suing people and made an appearance at the HOF. People on here praise Axl for not playing the "game", but then they whine and cry when the media or casual fan criticizes him. Axl's actions bring all the negativity onto him.

[Guns n' Swedes]

It's not easy to find somebody you can trust in that world. Very hard to come by...

[Guest NGOG]

The 2002 record, you could hear from the promos, was killer. I wish RedOne entered the project after that.

[DieselDaisy]

1/ Lack of productivity in regards to new material. The delay of Democracy killed that album and killed the - far superior to what we have today - 2002 band. Now, Democracy is in its fifth year.

2/ Becoming an 'oldies' nostalgia merchant.

3/ Acting like an arse during the Illusion period. His ego went crazy somewhere around 1990/91.

4/ Turning up on stage late. I have yet to see a sufficent reason for this. It is grossly insulting to the fans and unprofessional. There is no justification.

5/ Refusing to do, uncensored, interviews. How can we not accept Slash's view when there is no extent Axl view? His hatred for Slash still seems over the top and unjustified. Write your book Axl and we will give it a fair hearing.

Edited February 25, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Roush]

Could've Axl made his band successful? Maybe. But that requires hard work.

By that time, the Cheeto King was in his mid-30s, championing self-pity, and frankly -- he was complacent.

[Eu4ic]

One of the very sources of brilliance for Axl is also his Achilles' heel: His exceptionalism.

This is a good thing in some ways because his exceptionalism allows for flashes of brilliance, super-high standards and so forth.

BUT it is also a detriment, because he apparently can NOT recognize that there is such a thing as TOO MUCH. Too much tinkering, too much power, too much taking-for-granted. I like CD a lot , but its Frankenstenian. You cant make good music that way.

Case in point: He told Brain to play Josh's parts note for note. But add his own "feel." How the hell is that possible? I STILL do NOT understand that.

[Apollo]

One of the very sources of brilliance for Axl is also his Achilles' heel: His exceptionalism.

This is a good thing in some ways because his exceptionalism allows for flashes of brilliance, super-high standards and so forth.

BUT it is also a detriment, because he apparently can NOT recognize that there is such a thing as TOO MUCH. Too much tinkering, too much power, too much taking-for-granted. I like CD a lot , but its Frankenstenian. You cant make good music that way.

Case in point: He told Brain to play Josh's parts note for note. But add his own "feel." How the hell is that possible? I STILL do NOT understand that.

That's why his fans get one album in twenty years.

Axl "wins"...........fans and rock music lose.

[volcano62]

Fatal? Did someone die?

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

The biggest error in my opinion was letting Robin walk after his initial contract expired in 1999. The original version of the album was actually close to being finished when Robin left and Axl went crazy ordering all of his parts erased. After that, the search for the ultimate replacement for Slash began which took a while until he found Buckethead (and all the member and producer changes that followed). I like Bucket's contributions but would I rather have 2-3 GNR albums by this point over Buckethead, Bumblefoot, and Frank Ferrer appearing on one record? Yes.

Agreed with this. There was something bold and even noble about what Axl was doing in the late 90s IMHO. It was his unabashed, unapologetic expression of his vision for Guns N' Roses- and he was already receiving compliments from Moby and Brian May among others who had heard his work up to that point. He was also still very much in his "prime" in 98/99 at 36/37 too. At any rate, IMHO- once Robin and Josh Freese left and Buckethead and Brain joined on- things became a lot "muddier" (even if some of the impact was "beneficial" in the form of specific Buckethead solos or whatever) as he seemingly started to try to make an album that would somehow be all things to all people.... rather than the more concise, agressive "electronica" Guns' record he supposedly set out to make...

All that being said- there is much about Chinese (and Bucket's, Brain's, BBF's, etc. contributions to it) that I love anyway...